looking for nearly 40 percent of its overall sales, the nation also in ports russian fuel and 1st visors. burkina faso has received 25000 tons of free grain from moscow already. this year. financial consulted under list angelo. juliano saves base a hell a lie and states will not become full democracies as long as the former colonial power france remains in the region. the society alliance in the process of a complete set that they mean nation on paper they were independent, but the v i t s t quarter nice color nice by the in this, in this area in africa by friends of friends that he's as she is being looting to those countries taking the resources and something which is extremely important is the france due to the small months is actually in between those countries codes. he's under the name of c. s a is a french courtesy,

which is controlled by the french treasury. so it is a process of stuff that they mean nation of those. i think on con, please, they want to become real democracy and you can become a real democracy oil leaks if you're getting secure, you 70 in use because you, because their vocals, he's a process of the so that the nation. so the 1st step is, is we're gaining 70, then we defining you alliances. he doesn't mean that those countries are going to align completely with the other side, which is the most people in the world, or i would say, rochelle china. what they want to do is to to be able to choose what, which positives of the best for their own interest of his loan bring money. still the preferred way for terrorists to finance their operations on problems that's discussed next. and then latest episode of the whistle, blowers right here on r t insurance. the

many years ago i took a trip to northern argentina where i stayed in a hotel that had a view just over the bottom of the river into both brazil and part of why i thought correctly as it turned out, that this would probably be the only time in my life when i could go to public why? even if it was just for a day. so i paid a taxi driver to drive. we didn't even slow down when coming to the border. we just blew across it. but the sleeping border guard didn't seem to mind much. i don't remember very much about where i went that day in. so you did as a part of why. what i do remember is seeing what was more or less a parade of electronic equipment being smuggled into brazil. it was both brazen and obvious. the question though was why, when i got back to my job at c,

i a headquarters i mentioned what i'd seen to a colleague, he left and he said, that's how hezbollah makes its money. there's a huge lebanese community and see what the deal is that they smuggle electronics to brazil, and then they send the prophets to his butler. it had never even occurred to me. i'm john to reaku. welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 the most in the media, in the think tanks and even in hollywood, focus on terrorist operations on capabilities and on strategy. where will the next attack be? how many rockets does a terrorist group have? can they build bonds where their cells located? can they get on to an airplane? not much thought that was normally given to something that is at least as important and that is terrorist financing. i'm not talking about the work of treasury,

department, or finance, ministry, bureaucrats and accountants planning future sanctions. i'm talking about how terrorist groups around the world pay for their weapons, explosives, ammunition, training, housing, even their travel. i'm talking about how they raise and transfer money. money is the life blood of terrorist groups. it's money that allows them to launch everything from a tax to propaganda campaigns. the conventional wisdom is that in today's world, it's extremely difficult to launder money or to pay cash for anything of any real value without it coming to the attention of a government. but it happens, it happens every single day assigned the been loud and managed to assemble an entire army. mostly under the radar. has bella is one of the best financed and best armed to terrorist groups in the world. how does that happen? it takes a special person to develop expertise in terrorist financing. it takes the person who is not afraid to confront the details, and it takes

a person who will be committed to the issue over the long haul. we are very fortunate to have that expert with us today. loretta napoli only holds a master's degree in philosophy and a master's degree in terrorism, studies from the london school of economics. she also has a ph. d. in the field. she was a full, bright scholar at the johns hopkins university school of advanced international studies in washington, dc. following career in banking. loretta went into journalism, publishing her work in newspapers, all across europe. or she's now chairperson of the globe. they might read. that's a group studying terrorist financing. she's the author of 11 books on the subject, including her latest called pet no capitalism. loretta napoleon on the thank you so much for joining us. what thank you for inviting me, loretta. you have devoted much of your adult life to finding and to countering money laundering and terrorist financing. you've advised governments and heads of

state from around the world. you've written about the subject and you've appeared on virtually every important news network in the world. can you explain to us why the measures that have been taken by world leaders and their governments have not been enough to stop terrorist financing? but i would say that the 1st reason is that this measure a change from country to country. i mean, terrorism a is a global phenomenon. in fact, i think is one of the most globalized illegal activities. there was seen the st sooner, the floor of the building wall and the policy that'd been put in place to come to tatters, financing, and also to meet the gate to address them. the impacts of terrace activity, or even to eradicate tetter is of not being put in place everywhere or in the same way or with the same intensity. so there is some,

an approach the global approach, which is not as strong as it does require. so this is the 1st reason. uh, the other reason is that you know, 10 or is, is very much, you know, parts all of our life and as being with us. so i from the beginning god and territories, believe that their freedom, pfizer says, would they want to change existing regina? so they work together with claimant, organization and cleaning organization of the deep a deep rooted to the in the any society. so it is a problem that i'm afraid we will never solve to completely. now we can meet the gauge so we can reduce the impact, but dreaming of a solution to terrorism. i'm afraid it's a dream that will never come to how much of an actual problem is this on

a global scale, with a post $911.00 changes in place in international finance? is it possible for terrorist groups to finance their operations on a grand scale? to okay, so $911.00 was then i would say it was one off uh, meaning that was an event. uh, that took place at a certain point in history because of a serious of circumstances. so if you think about that, the hijackers were funded with trans federal money taking place to, nor my bank could norma banking got channels. so they, they obtain visa to enter the united states. most of them not to saudi arabia on is the, the procedure i know all of that to took place at the time in which nobody could have predicted or would have expected and events like that. not to take place that

think about getting on a plane without being checked. i mean, this is impossible. it's never going to happen again. but that doesn't mean that terrorism that's not pose at the same kind of threat that's needed with 911. i mean, look what, what happened with the 7 of october attack by a months in israel, i mean did retaliation know from israel is very similar to what the united states as done after 911. now that is so generally what inflates people support therapy with the support of peoples that sympathize with certain codes. so we will see the consequences in the years to come. so from that point of view, i would say that is still possible to create the same kind of that care. so

at global level, or at least at international level. and also does possible through these kind of event exceptional if and just to convince people to join in the fight. because the illusion that these kind of attacks project is that it is possible to achieve the goal of terrorism. so in the case of a kind, i swear, all know what's the destruction of the united states? it is an economic superpower. so the top 2 towards the far away enemy in order to stop the far away enemy from financing and supporting the near enemy. which way you know, the corrupted regina or the various countries from where, you know, the members of archive that's came from to the same think we can hear them and say,

hey, could up and now after october, the 7 know course it is an illusion because no and we don't have any prove that the in history, these kind of event of really change existing regina so unless of course that followed by an uprising, which is a public uprising? no, we have not seen this happen it. and in the, our awards after 911 who are not going to see that happening in the rewards after october 7. but nevertheless, you know, there is, this idea is this new, you know, and that is what we should really be concentrating on. if we want really to meet you gauge and also to reduce the power of errors. so again, it's ations. i read recently that virtually the only way left to launder money on

a large scale is through the purchase of real estate, fine art and resources. i don't fully understand that. can you explain? well, yes, of course. that's what we've seen a many cases in recent years. so people buying uh, for example of property in the, in spain, uh, in uh, south in the, on the, on the beach is around your shore. so of spain, portugal also, you know, the 1000 valley and the use these kind of activity to load their money. now you, you may ask ours, this possible because, i mean, you can people actually, you know, carry suitcases and therefore cash and some with the accept them. well actually yes . i mean, most of the money laundering them, they staking place today as it was in the past by the way it was in the past takes

place and in cash and takes place with bach shipment because you know, we're talking about large amount of money. i mean, i gave you an example. i actually came across a situation like this in, as in tina. so people in the united states want to buy property in one of cyrus because you know, they want to have a place to go during the summer months. so or, you know, whatever, you know, but they can't really bring the money in so easily, you know, the den to take them out because there are no one entire section. so what did they do? they arrange for people that they know to do the exchange. so let's say, you know, you are in a resident of the cyrus, you are a professional and you want to send your children to school in the united states

and you have to pay the fees in us dollars. so instead of doing the transfer of money, which of course will be tax and also regulated, at least you know, until recently, where you do is you, you get into an arrangement with somebody in the united states and you will provide the money in the website is to buy an apartment uh for this person and the next change, this person will pay the fees. all your children are going to university know this is a very, very, i would say middle class level, any happens. so all the time. now do people know that by doing that they may, gets involved with money laundering? got me. i think you lots of people don't, but this is very, very easy way to overcome restriction the on both side. so through this kind of

connection. so yeah, i'll do you stop something like that to see in order to stop something like that, where you need is to educate people, to teach them that by doing that, by behaving in this way. that actually, you know, breaking the role. but also, they are supporting any legal activity. this is just one of the many example. and then of course, you also have, you know, the are toward the same 3 can be applied to the art ward you, you, if you are buying something go, which is very expensive. if you're buying a castle or you know, in a row, that's going to be very difficult. but if you buy, let's say, and middle to lower side artist, which is not very well. no, no,

it is in you. it doesn't require a lot of money. then. yes, you, you can easily do something like that and it is a, well, i'll do the loan, the millions of millions, hundreds of millions of by doing that. it just repeat the same old variation over and over again now. or there's plenty of people who are willing to get into this kind of activity is loretta and apply on it. internationally recognized expert on terrorist financing. thank you for speaking with us, but don't go away. we're going to take a short break. and when we come back, we'll continue our conversation and ask her about the methods by which terrace are prevented from financing and how the must constantly change. stay tuned. 2 2 really,

we're not going to see what's going on with her up at the moment. this is just so please stay. of course with me. your last name was needed. read that list and when we used to imagine we have some more more for someone who is this, we would show new people to the the the welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry onto we're speaking with officer journalist and terrorist financing expert

loretta and the polio on the loretta. thanks again for being with us. thank you. loretta. i spent 15 years in the c. i a working on counterterrorism followed by 2 years. as the chief investigator at the senate foreign relations committee, i remember very well how complicated tracking terrorist money was. and i remember how so many big important international banks found themselves involved. it was probably inadvertent, but there was also an element of bank leaders being blinded by greed. that's what caused them to look the other way for far too long. has this been your experience and if so has that changed? oh, yes, absolutely. i a s been my experience also things have changed. see, i would say significantly after $911.00 because of the end of banking regulation. now it is not as easy as it was and in the past,

but this is still take place. i'm afraid. yes. this is an element because as come into the equation and reason to you and this is creep to accordance is, uh no i, a beast calling is very much a core and say that is tracked at every single step. now initially, bitcoin was use. but by claiming organization on the dock and that it was also used for money laundering. but that stopped because now it is clear that you can track of every single step of the beads calling the bulk chain. and eventually when you go and exchange the beep beep calling for real money, which can be any quarter and says this is when the mechanism out of the investigation actually can block you. we have several cases was seen in recent,

near where, you know, people where long getting billions and there were a hand discover that actually was the f b i that they did the 1st major but break through with big coins. but these calling is just one of the many, many, many, crypt accordance is some, some of these crypt mclawrence is like monopoly money. how do you just being created out of, you know, the success of a certain organization which of pulled up, you know, web page is or that they sell service and kind of services on the internet. so through that kind of a crypto color and see if it is possible to long thrown their money because there is no control because you know, there is no, it's impossible to patrol every single transaction without the the block

chain which includes this typical only of the beach calling the now the banking system, a dozen deal openly in bits calling audio. now beach cooling is part of the financial industry, let's say in the, in the united states. so technically speaking, you could, to beach can still do these kind of, i could see with the, of the, you know, it's, i don't think i haven't seen it anyway. i mean, even organization. i'm not relying on on beach call. and then you know that there are many other ways that he's being formal banking system, for example, known as a, sorry only there while a but also the informal banking system which is used in, in china. and i mean, the chinese do land each other money to

a new form of banking system. and often the system is based upon in a large family. so if you really want to money loaned me to uh channels which are either the banking system, the or you know, the informa banking system, you can still do it. but you have to be more careful than you are before. i actually wanted to ask you about that. specifically. i did an investigation more than a decade ago for john kerry when he was the chairman of the senate foreign relations committee. i went to the middle east and i was able to transfer just as a test, $50.00 to myself, through something called while i went to a small shop in abu dhabi. i gave him in $50.00. he gave me a very long number by which to later claim the money. and when i got home to washington, i went to an arrow bakery. i gave the man there my number and i got my $50.00 back

. this was very small stakes, of course, but are these while as used to finance terrorist groups and if so, what can be done to regulate them? of course are there while there is use for tatters financing. i mean it's not. so we just know the deal wallace system is, is uh, uh, controlled by terrace organization. absolutely not. but the wallet system is so you just am is all over to ward is, you know, as a silver global assist them is, um, is actually very cheap in comparison to other systems. so transfer like, you know, west and, you know, for example, ice very quick. uh you can do, i mean you, you must have experienced that. um, it's, um, is also linked to, uh, gold. uh, so the, the reserves of their walla are actually in gold to suite it. so you

can even transfer gold instead of, you know, transferring money. if it is possible to do that to, and that's it may be actually a good way to avoid the controls because, i mean golda is yes, this tangible but it's difficult to face it. so there, while i was there, the advantage of the wireless is a to goes everywhere so, so you can find and in a while, a door to somebody that can transfer the money and gave you the money everywhere in the ward. so, you know, you could, you can be up in the mountains, in pakistan and, and use the water move. now the of the use of the wall i would say in terms of the terrace financing, is at the micro level,

is the either small donations for example. so we're not seeing and saudi arabia, for example. i mean, any body respond sitting go, i'm took any zation for inside. there is no going to use that while it's going to use either x to either means bulk shipment of cash being the most uh the most use and the preferable one. but a global level, the supervisor, the people in the, well actually look at that group, but that arms are going to zation that they believe that is fighting for the freedom of the read. you know, i specified that the freedom of the region because most of the people that actually are sponsoring in the, in this way, people that have no idea what to tell who's got his haitian is they really do

believe that the group that they're funding is a group was finding that's not for the freedom of their own people. so these kind of individual all over toward, you know, use the walla to find, know the various organization as they use the wallet. also do fun, charge it. so they do a good job in, in that range. what's the next financing battlefield, loretta? do government still have to worry about the banks can money still be transferred on a large scale and how much strategies change in order to keep up with the terrorist to? i think we're already in the, in the next a bunch of the fields or the new frontier is actually cyber sad or is this very little is reported about not so many, many companies. so do not report that they have been hacked by

organization that require payment to brands on the ransom is today the around some of us, which is also a button, particularly i would say run some of the cyber attacks is one of the most important source of tanner is financing and we know very little about that. so imagine a, a, a big organization and be corporation that gets hacked. and they, we'd run some way and they ask for a payment of a 2 or 200000000 and stuff like that organization will pay as quickly as you possibly can. so that nobody would know that is being hacked. because you, if you, if the news that you're being hacked comes how to then there's a few taishan of this organization is going to be damage. and there is no way there

is no way that you can protect and present yourself from these kind of back attacks. so hacking is the new frontier. and perhaps this is why we haven't seen a lot of financial activity for tatters financing canada. feels because the old takes place in the documents of the internet to loretta. that was absolutely brilliant. thank you so much for coming on the show. well, thank you john. know nature as all of us have been effected by terrorist and then one way or another, whether it's americans arriving for a normal day's work on the morning of september, 11th, 2001 russians gathering in the theater to listen to some music earlier this year. or anybody else in any of the world's countries. terrorism, of course, can never be accepted, never under any circumstances. it's up to us to fight together with methods that do

not compromise our respect for the rules of law and for human rights. that's why we owe such a debt of gratitude to people like loretta napoleonic. i know that i for 1 am indebted thanks for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry onto please follow me on subsets at john kerry. uncle will see you next time . 2 the today, the arab countries are in my view, in a stronger position than they were in 1973. they carry much more economic weight that they didn't 1973 today guys, uh united something and. and it's very clear that the palestinian issue is not going to go away and there is no way israel will be integrated in the region before

this browsing issue. as a result, the this ours headline stories around presidential race heads to are run off with the reform. it's a conservative candidate set to go head to head next week. also a had a warning, disturbing images. another tragedy on our lands, enemies fired civilians are civilians died. 5 people were killed, 2 were injured including 2 small children, deadly ukraine and shelling on the russian border regions, results and civilian sites. all that changed with several residential building shelves of the church also damaged in the attempts to new york times call is for joe biden to quit the presidential race after a kilometers. the face jewel with donald trump reinforcing speculation.