the, the, the mouse sooner than say, welcome back to going underground broadcast to go around the world from the u. a. today, russia takes the helm of the un security council as president putin proposed to head because excited for the shanghai cooperation organization summit, championing a multi paula world. as washington's proxy war and ukraine escalates the dictates of shipping cabins, urging its nature back as to, as strikes, deeper into russian territory. following on from us talk is it strikes on civilians as a russian beach. this while the green lights arms funded by profits from stolen russian assets and in the middle east, israel is giving up and all that will with has builder and levels and apparently

with full backing from a by the administration. the recently rolled out the red carpet for is rarely defense when the state you of glands, labels, palestinians, human animals and forbids to welcome 5 minutes. and then you always address to the us congress, both man, that being pursued by the i. c. c for crimes against humanity in gaza. meanwhile, the as rails propaganda machine is in full swing on us soil. there are reports on millions spends on cobra drop or ations to redefine anti semitism in u. s. law and secure public and congressional support for the ongoing genocide of the cities and gaza, east jerusalem and the west bank. joining me now as the former co director of jewish boys for peace for us director of that selim and the current president to re thinking foreign policy coal with the except for palestine. the limits of progressive politics with mock limone to hill mutual politic, joins me from germantown, maryland. mitchell, thanks so much for coming on. thanks so much for having me. you know, the world was happy for the instant about julia designs being finally released

after having to make a deal with the bite. and just as the bomb and it was assigned as that showed us how bernie sanders campaign was destroyed, but they only clinton campaign. but now, and i want to get on to lebanon, but uh, this calling of uh bernie sand is jon fencher. i'm and is pictured with netanyahu this while the whole poll show the american people is pro palestine. who is sending to john john feldman for star and who is a the red carpet treatment for a a man woman. just a glance from israel. uh, what was the red carpet and washing and rolled out for a man who said, palestinians of human animals. well to start with fenner man, i have to admit betterment is the politician. i think i've been the most wrong about in my to my whole career. when he was 1st elected, he was the lieutenant governor of pennsylvania and he ran for the senate on a progressive platform,

even at the time he was pretty structurally in the pro israel cap. but he seemed like the kind of guy and i, i wrote about those who seemed like they haven't read that you could lobby and kind of explain to him. he seemed like he just didn't know much about palestine. and maybe you could convince him that, that, that palestinians, you know, we're, we're human beings and, and, and deserve the same rights as everyone else. instead, since he's been in office, he has learned far to the right on not just on palestine on many issues but, but most prominently on this one. he actually walks. it has taken pictures of himself in public uh, walking around with the it is really flag draped over his back. i mean, just really a mocking uh, protestors who are, who are calling for an end to the genocide in gaza. he has been the absolute worst of the democrats and um, yeah, so it's not supply the money. he would, you know it's, it's very, very hard to say it. he,

he does not seem like she is um, bought and paid for by buy a pack and, and other lobbying groups. that doesn't really seem to be his. his motive, it seems like this is what he genuinely believes. um, is it a political ploy? is it just a question to where his brother bothered possibly, but there hasn't been anything obvious about uh about about anything that he's done all the time. but let's not just shake on him. but his emblematic of this complete mismatch between the american public opinion in the usa, i'm not even demographic. i think even older americans, although because younger american, scaly, it's about palestine. why, why is it not shifting the the, even the body side is progressive left let alone the usual suspect in the g o p as well. i think i said it has shifted the progressive left. um and i think we're

seeing um quite a bit. and in terms of activity, grassroots activism, certainly, you know, as you pointed out among the younger people, but even older people, the vast majority of democrats are at this point, want us to use fire in guys, an unconditional ceasefire and, and to israel's aggression. that is what democrats of want right now, and that, those across the board, and of course, did they care enough, but did they care enough that linda thomas greenville veto deceased by twice was it when the orders are by the, the administer debt? well, what you're describing, there's a difference between what democrats and i'm talking about voters, regular citizens, one and what the, by the ministration watts. and that has been a disconnect from day one long before october 7th, that has been a disconnect biden has largely continued republican policies when it comes to the entire middle east and especially in palestine. and that became even more of

a break after october 7th. so you have the time is going to you have and she blinked, going around the world covering for israel's lives. we've seen this recently with the, with the so called c expire proposal that bite and presented as israel's own plan. and which is ro rejection. how mazda is accepted and ad blinking is going around the world saying it's how boss is the only thing is that is standing in the, in the way of a ceasefire happening now, which is just an outright lie. so that disconnect is very, very strong between the administration and the democratic voters. i think it largely comes from ideological meanings. i believe that joe biden on this issue, although in many issues, he's a consummate politician. i think on this lecture if he's a, just a true believer, he is just somebody who is going to back israel regardless of if you lose the election of over it. so the, i think that is how strong his conviction is. in terms of this, i don't know why he's quite that passion to that. right?

i mean, obviously i don't know the man because people i'm saying is the money. you know, i mean the rubber f k junior similarly, you know, for negotiations on ukraine. similarly, this bizarre view of uh, the middle east, obviously completely not reading your work though with these sent to r f k junior. you get these strange policy positions and donald trump, of course, who is backed by the widow of sheldon adults. and you might have to tell us what you're saying, they believe this stuff, and it's not just the money. and i realized physically, i think biden believes this stuff. i should be very clear, biden, i think is a true believer. i think most politicians don't really care, and yes, it is politically much, much easier road to just support israel. there is a lot of money involved. there's also a lot of politics involved. there's also a lot of, frankly, racism involved israel, although the majority of his relatives are not white, is really, is a, is perceived as if it is

a european country in many ways. you also have the biblical and the question, uh uh, sort of founding in israel and those belief that also help bolster it but, but that there is also a strong element of anti or racism that, that contributes to that. so there's, there are a lot of reasons i think for it body is certainly a big one. i don't think it's the, it's the deciding factor with biden, as far as trump trumps party is completely committed to your own. and that that goes from the people in washington to the vast majority of the voters. his base is largely made up of christian and ben gallegos who will support is rel regardless of what it does. well, i'm going $11000000.00, i guess, according to opens the open secrets as that struck nothing. and as for the progressives, i mean, you never hear a oh, see one to round talking about genocide everyday. i mean, i've seen footage and people try to confront her over that,

but let's go to the war expanding then. and what is your fear about it? expand it because some people say there's no way is really going to try it on after being defeated by lebanese resistance so many times before. and the fact that a lebanese resistance, if they can't even be tomas and guys, they're not going to be able to pete lebanese resistance. it can flatten tell of even 5 minutes as well. i think there's a lot of, i think there's a lot of merit to that thinking. on the other hand, this is really government is completely out of control. and one of the problems that we face is that this far right is really government knows it's not going to be in power forever. and they have long believed that what israel needs to do is, is completely step out of all the resistance to it throughout the region. and that particularly includes the palestinians and has, by the, in the north that has been their plan and they want to basically find a way to confront around and take, make it so that there is no, there's no threat. they want to do that. however,

without in any way giving rights to palestinians that sort of belie, that the is rarely right is trying to do is trying to walk. of course, that's impossible unless you go into all out war. i think this would be a fatal mistake for israel. if they did that, because and, and his bella has made it clear their capabilities are not the same as they were in 2006. when israel already bid off more than it could you in that war and ended up, you know, finding it's a really said back in terms of its security doctrine. the region now has by that can reach everywhere and is 0. there's no way for his rally. citizens to go that they can avoid his bella attacks any more than let them use citizens kind of void israeli attacks. so that's all that as a whole new ball game. and i think that there are rational minds in israel that are say, we should not do this and certainly be united states. on the one hand, the united states is coming out and saying we will back is rel, whatever they do. because that is their political doctrine. but the military leaders are saying, what we did a few, a few weeks back when iran, you know,

launched all those missiles towards israel and us and other countries intercepted them before they ever got into his early territory. we can't do that with, as well as bella is right on your board. if they launch the missiles, we're not going to be able to do anything to help you stop them. and they have enough missiles to overwhelm israel's anti muscle capabilities. so you don't want to, to get into this is kind of what the american military leaders are telling israel. while the political leaders are saying, well back to you, if you do. so this has, this is a recipe for serious. it's after all around. but let's face it is real, is more than capable of devastating the loving i'm, which is already, i mean, just economically and then after the explosion that all the things that have happened to in recent years is already in a horrible state. is that just devastated by that? now we know this, but the thing is now that can happen also in the reverse. that means that it can

escalate to a regional war really quickly involving many yeah, many uh, malicious and involving your on. this is a nightmare scenario. that israel should avoid, but this government is really determined to try and prove the theory that they have had for decades. that through military might, they can smash all of their opponents. yeah. but why that is political? i'm quoting on name sources in the, by the ministration saying, oh, trying to get the message through to lebanese resistance leaders as well or, and so on that uh, the united states con, we may be funding it sending all the weapons to that and, you know, but we have no control of out of the weapons used, and that we couldn't stop them if they wanted to level be root and other cities in lebanon. because i think that's the case. i mean, i think the united states knows this would be disastrous. look, they, they, the were on it as a, has been disastrous. nobody is winning through. this is reality is, are unhappy and any stream copies to receive and send the palestinians,

whose de nobody's name by them was getting politically destroyed. and yet, they could stop it at any time just by cutting off the weapons. they are not going to cut off weapons sales to is route even if it does a tax, has bella and in and started full scale war. that's the message that they're sending. they're not going to stop the, the trying to tell the israelis not to do that. and i think, i think that's, you know, this is just another example of the solution is and political power just of the, by the administrative should they know what the right thing is, but they will not do it better. but i think i'll stop you. the more from the president of rethinking foreign policy after this break the

the welcome back to go to the undergrad that's still here with the co author of except for palestine. the limits of progressive politics. michel, perfect, the mitchell. we were talking about the, by the ministrations response to any expanded war in lebanon. in fact, they said, according to one name sources in us media, they would continue to arm is reality if we decide to go north in that way. but who is this on boy of bite? and then lebanon pictured the aimless heart stein. i mean, is even american because he served in the uh, is there any occupation forces in

a tank? just like the tanks, we can see motoring, childrens sending shelves to slice of the heads of babies in garza. that is the us on void delivered. uh yeah. um the customer, as i understand it is a dual citizen. uh, so he has both is really an american citizen show denies manual citizen. now he's fully america. i, it may have renounced his is rarely citizenship or he may have um, uh, volunteered as some americans to just volunteer to the idea of um, you know, years ago he did broker and agreement with the lebanese government about the, the gas fields in the mediterranean, that both sides claimed and it was actually a pretty good deal and it, it avoided some potential tensions um, and he is somebody to buy just absolutely trust. so um, but again, like, you know, like most us on boys to the region. he is somebody who will put israel's interest

very much frontier in the is riley. all right. it's really it's like i'm surprised who i'm surprised. i who do the medium baby, presumably he doesn't, we may consider as well or a terrorist organization despite having members of parliament and babies can't talk . he can't talk directly to, to anyone who has bella, but he can of course, and he has relationships with people that believes government. and he can, through those channels. as indirect talks with his bella leaders much the same way as the american government does with the, with how must they do the same thing. they said we can talk, we will not talk to terrorist, etc, etc. so they talk to intermediaries, whether those be contrary, whether those be power stand, so that they talk through 3rd parties. to my mind, that's just all the, all the charade. and i think it's silly and i think it is counterproductive. but that's unfortunately how i have diplomacy works, excuse me,

but i understand they've completely lost, not just the are a big power boiled from the atlantic to the pacific. but the whole of the global south to the bottom, the ministrations policies. as regards the genocide and guys of have destroyed us prestige, what was that have to with for decades to go? so yeah, i think this is very unfortunate. and we again, as, as i pointed out, a number of times a bite and in many ways has unfortunately continued just trumps legacy. even though he ran rat. yeah. his whole election campaign was based on the idea that he was going to clean up trump mess basically, especially on foreign policy. he's a is certainly in the middle east. he has done the exact opposite. he has continued trumps fail policies and really very much contradicted and gone against what little progress had been made by brock obama in terms of rebuilding some trust in the

united states. uh well, i'm not sure about obama, or i think the butcher of libya. i think is that obama absolutely do that, but there was definitely a big as i said, some trust obama and every american president has had terrible policies in the middle east. nobody's had a girl. they were the abraham accord. so there wasn't any kind of genocide on this scale in gaza and there was no war in europe under trump. you don't have to support donald trump. does he however, have won't be able to have a course. i would, i would argue the abraham, of course, and in great measure led to lead to hamas having no choice really, but to do what they did on october 7, maybe not in the way they did it, but certainly uh, if it was the threat of all of the arab states completely abandoning the policy. yeah. but i think just the side effects would be a rab accords. um the and continuing that with saudi arabia was one of the things

that basically boxed them into a corner and said if we're going to go county fairly saudi arabia, charlotte, right, like that. or we have to do something. what can you please add? uribe is not listening to anything, joe biden says, at the moment they won't even cut the oil, oil supplies, but by the ministration officials of wanted them to, you know, we had a full, an agent officially in ukraine goodwill jack going on here. and he was saying the other week people, what's your interview with him? he was actually in the swiss army. previously, he was saying they won't use these, right. these won't use the nuclear weapons provided to them by the united states, i guess on guys, because uh, they already have plans to settle guys, and it would pollute the ground there. what about lebanon? what do you understand about the use of nuclear weapons that to israel my to employ in the whitening conflict? well, there's always, you know, when you use nuclear weapons in the short range is always a great danger to yourself, right?

so that is always something that you have to consider and, and is the last is right. i don't think israel is, is likely to ever use nuclear weapons unless it feels like it's about to lose a major, you know, major war. in which case, i think all bets are off and but i lost you against 11 and before. yeah, but now i'm not talking about a defeat pushed back of their invasion. i'm talking about something that actually would threaten them in, in a, in a fundamental way, which at this point at least i don't think has below, is going to do. so i don't know that they're capable of it, even if they were, i don't think they would want me to take that on. um, but uh, so i think the, the nuclear issue i think is not the major focus. and i don't think that's necessarily what we need to be concerned about. i'm much more worried about ways or i will do with the tons and tons and tons of bombs that the united states send them on a regular basis. and what that will do to, to all the webinar i a country that is on the prank, as it is a,

after everything they have been through these last, you know, these last certainly the last few years um, the, the, the shattered economy, the big explosion at the court, all these things that have happened there, i'm much more concerned about the use of conventional or relatively conventional weapons and moving out of what that can do then, then nuclear weapons, which i think doesn't really make sense for me. israel's point of view for them to use, well, you can probably see your legacy media there in the united states salivating of a war and having and all ready. we will be back, congress being out of step with the population of the united states. you or media or is it the other thing? and organizations like the anti defamation league, just very briefly explain who they are. what do you think should happen to groups? likely i do the information the that it clearly cheering on the genocide at the moment in gaza. as well, the anti defamation, the as more than say, a century old,

they are a sensitively and claim to be a civil rights organization that primarily focuses on adverse semitism but also in other kinds of races. that's what they say. they are in fact, but they do is protect israel at all costs and they do so they do do some other things that make it complicated in this country to explain to people what their real you know, how, how deeply imbedded with is riley apartheid and genocide. that they are um, so that is that's, that's kind of a subject. they have a long history of working with the united states government against progressive activists, including back in the eighty's, a major scandal where they were found to have been spying on a anti apartheid in south africa, the south african to part time a anti apartheid activist in the united states on the, in can in cooperation with the united states government. so uh, this is, this is who they are. and what they do is they dominate in many ways the

discourse around israel, around jews in the united states. and turn all criticism of israel into anti semitism, which is what they claim it is. and it's a very powerful tool. frankly, this works very well. it's a really difficult the challenge is rarely policy here in the united states because you're immediately call that is submitted, including if you're jewish, like myself and add it, it makes it very, very complicated. and definitely you end up having to defend yourself against those charges are expressed on that subject. i mean that's the only way we have jeremy call been on this row and he ended up with ended up folding and sacking people on the, on these spurious the ncc, my grounds. what was it like working is the u. s. office of or it is really n g o bet, sell them up on the which we, we, we live so much for so much data provide to human rights abuses. so in, in washington, you personally,

because on the one hand you're given is riley. and joe's e commerce accused, i don't think i can even accuse moving i designers. and at the same time, presumably with being accused of being ad you submitted. i am. yeah, actually they have no, but those are good southern uh and other is rather human rights organizations are demonized as at the somebody that can certainly have happy israel all the time varying israel within israel and here in the united states they are that's. that is how again, that's how a pro israel forces operate. they, they don't actually, i mean, they can't win on the substance, right? you can't argue that what's happening to palestinians is, is not, not happening. the policies we can all see it now, you know, years ago, they could argue, now that's not true, this isn't happening. everybody can see it on their phones now. so instead of arguing with the substance you argue by saying, well, any criticism is simply anti israel. i just submitted that to you, you know that you, you, you,

you produce that having to attacks and what it was like for me uh, working for but 7 was actually was kind of interesting as it has been. and the other drives i've had here in the washington area. um, you know, you talked to people in congress, they know what's going on. you talked to the stockers. i mean, the members of congress may not know, but the people and the staff know the people in the state department know, they don't like the policies that were pursuing, they feel boxed in again by the pro israel lobbying forces. they feel like politically they have no room to maneuver and when they feel like they can't do something, for example, people who are the state department have usually had some more freedom. but now with the secretary of state who was lying and covering up everything he had to in the service of israel trying to cover every single is rarely crime and make excuses for them. and literally telling people to shut their mouths when they are saying this policy is wrong. that's why you're now finding the same people quitting this

administration of every going to look for their post power palestine policy. yeah, well just find me very briefly then can you understand why given the, the circle of progressives now support genocide for the day, the democrats are closely linked to genocide. we never used to use the word genocide of the tv program as freely as we do today. just very briefly, you can understand why trump is benefiting and why african americans latino who have people who consider themselves profile as time would consider that anything is better than supporting a president. the under whom was under it. the genocide was under his name. there are a lot of people here in this country who are very, very scared and rightfully so, of what a new a next trump administration might mean. and those people have been pleading that with, by the say, look, even if you don't care about palestinian life, even if you have don't value them. even if you're that much of a racist don't hand trump, the white house with these policies. people have been trying that she won't listen

to anything. and yeah, people are very, very, very worried about this. very concerned about it. and certainly people who, who support palestinian rights are looking at this and saying, where do we turn? you know, trump, i, you know, certainly not, we can talk about other issues, but certainly on this one. trump is awful biden is just as bad in, if, if not even worse and in certain ways. so yeah, it is a very, very big challenge here in the united states as to what to do and it, i, you know, i certainly am on that is i've made many points about why by them should change this policy just documented on, on human grounds. but if he just doesn't care about that, then you should be changing it because you're going to lose the election over it. as i relapsed, as i said, does this way. well, there is no sign of course that mutual that. thank you. and that's it for the show of continued condolences to those bereaved by u. k. u s. u,

i'm genocide will be back on a brand new episode on saturday until then keep in touch by on social media if it's not sense of your country and to our channel going underground tv on rumbled on. com to let you know the episodes of going undergrad. so you said the russian states never saw one of the most on scheme. dfcs ingles all sense. i'm up the speed. the one else calls question about this. even though we will ben

in the european union, the kremlin machine, the state on the rushes to day and split the ortiz full neck, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube. the question, did you say to stephen twist, which is the most face of the simple truth to protect americans of the land that welcomes immigrants must 1st secure the border and secure it now. but just like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. what defines border security depends on the politician

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they will basically cut a 5.