strategic partnership between russia and china is moving full speed ahead and that both sides need to continue to work hard for their people and to preserve this friendship and create opportunities for this friendship to flourish in the future. now this isn't the only meeting that vladimir putin was able to attend today. he also met with turkish president, are the one who said that he was thrilled to see tourism from russia flourish in the country. he also said that he's looking forward to the success of the 2nd joint nuclear power plants project with russia. and that's strategic cooperation with russia is just going well and basically all spears sooner. there is a very important step that we are taking together right now. we want to put the, i'll call you power station into operation as soon as possible to finish it. as soon as possible. we're conducting negotiations for another nuclear plants. we believe that we can take serious steps in this regard. with this one relationship between rush and to a kia, of course, i expect to host you in my country soon. good for that. a lot of our put and also

met with the president of mongolia who congratulated putting on his re election victory this year. he also said that the economic situation in this country of mongolia is improving since i inflation is quite down from the years of kobe. then he also spoke a lot about joint energy projects with china that are helping mongolia, tackle it's energy deficit. and he said that he would really like to see similar projects opened up with russia as well. for his part, vladimir putin said that energy cooperation is absolutely without a doubt, one of moscow's priorities in bilateral cooperation that it gets good. the land energy has been and remains one of the main areas of our cooperation. the work has been established, but we can also talk about expansion. i mean both hydrocarbons and electric power. there was something to talk about here. i am very glad to have the opportunity today to exchange views with you on the whole range of relations. bearing in mind, coordination in the international arena was on top of that. the russian president also met with the president, advisor by john eel, home olive,

who praised his country's longstanding partnership with russia. and he also put energy cooperation at the top of his agenda as well. saying he's got a lot of new ideas on how to further develop cooperation in that sphere between us or by john and russia, vladimir put, and also had a meeting with the prime minister of pakistan. and there again, energy cooperation was at the top of the agenda, but the russian president also placed special emphasis on agro industrial cooperation, saying that moscow wants to continue to aid as lama, but in terms of food security. and the pakistani prime minister responded by thanking russia for the integral role. it's played in the country successes and said that there's a lot of experience to be gained. and that has been gained through this strategic partnership with russia. so that's basically a rundown of the main things that were said throughout these bilateral meetings, on the 1st day of the 24th, the summit of the shanghai cooperation organization. right? you can get from the details of old stories will follow you in the are to does come

right back again with more stories in a couple of the on the the the hello and welcome to cross ok. we're all things are considered. i'm peter labeau. zalinski says camp does not want to prolong the war and make it last for years. is even suggested using intermediaries to achieve that and at the same time camp please. for greater nato involvement. as usual, zalinski is steps between a rock and a hard place. the

cross section ukraine, i'm joined by my guess. den cabal look and pittsburgh. he is a professor of law and the author of the plot to scape goat russia and kills. and we cross the pascal last task. he is an associate professor at kyoto university. are gentlemen cross type roles and the fact that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate pasco, let me go to you. here. we've had a flurry of comments coming from the former president of ukraine's zalinski. he's no longer legally the president and even under the constitution of the country. but you know, he's talking like, just want a prolonged war. he doesn't want to have it last for years. looking for intermediaries, possibly another piece summit, after the failed, 1st one, which could include russia. but the same time he wants a no fly zone over a western ukraine. obviously the always a asking for more aid, all kinds of

a particularly um, financial aid, ukraine is facing international default immediate, it's very so now they're in very big financial troubles here. well, is there a, the attempt to change the narrative? uh, is there an attempt to change course on how to end this conflict? how do you read it because it's kind of all over the place. pasco, honestly like when you reached out to me yesterday with that article, i tried to find the original source. i have trouble to locate it and what i found was, uh see, let me see this and then skis, explanations of how they still want to the feed russia and how the oh the, the on the right piece is, is adjust piece according to the ukraine. your piece formula and that, that's something that can be said towards 3 days ago. at the same time, it is very much possible that these kind of talk from him, these rhetorical chase gets older. so, oh, happening at the moment with me,

with mr. savanski, i just don't know what is the case and who is currently in charge of what he is saying. he has being consistently talking out of both sides of his mouth, which is very different from what we've heard from. let them you put in who in a rush has had a very consistent narrative, actually with what they wanted. so the one thing that i'm waiting for is for either mr. lensky or joe biden, or somebody in the west to actually actually start picking up rochelle. and it's all 1st for rio peace negotiations, which would the and we know that by now that we know that for 2 years, the main pillar of that would be ukrainian neutrality. so as soon as somebody starts saying, we are again serious about contemplating you printing, and you try that, you have to meet as a lensky was 2 years ago during the eastern border negotiations. then then i will

start believing that something is really moving until and unless that happens, i do think it's just more rhetoric out in the east there in order to, you know, satisfied the demands of newspapers in different parts of the western world. yeah. and, and to keep the ukraine story uh, at the top of me keep it as a headline here. yeah. you know, tad, it's interesting when task outside, you know, because the legitimacy of, of zalinski in ukraine is quite questionable. but after the dimension debate, one has to wonder who's running the show in washington, d. c? i mean, a more ambiguity. go ahead. i was going to, you know, i, many times and this program called a biden's war and things like that. i mean, well, i don't know if it is his war, but i don't know who is war is that it is at this point here. i mean, again, it gets more and more convoluted. we um, if this is vitamins policy? well, we saw from the debate, we really don't know what he's talking about most of the time. and so who in the

administration is deciding these things it's gets there's one layer of a mystery after another. go ahead, dan. yeah, well i think certainly anthony blinking is a big player and all of this victoria newland had been i guess she's gone now to the administration. i don't know, but she may be lurking behind the shadows. uh but yeah, no, you raise a good point. i mean, the guy who, i guess has his finger on the nuclear button is completely absent. you know, they, they say that he's just not, they are no ones inside that body, you know, and it's very sad and, and again, but it's very dangerous because it means there's on elected officials for sure. like a blank and 2 are really in charge. and these are near cods who want more . and really i, i've said before, you know, every president, since world war 2 is seen,

one of their main tasks as preventing nuclear holocaust, you know, protecting americans from world war 3 if they did anything else. right. this administration seems to want one or 3, and i think part of that is that you do not have a chief executive as a functioning chief chief executive at the helm to check these crazies at the crazies are in control. and you know, it makes me very freight and it makes me very afraid to dan, you're absolutely right. ever since the 2nd world war, the primary mission of the chief executive united states as to avoid a new killer holocaust here. but posts go, we have with this administration, they seem to have rejected the idea of deterrence, of nucular deterrents. and this is what, you know, they, they talk about who is a saber rattling, but it's really the west that is doing it because they no longer play by the rules

of deterrence. i mean, united states and the soviet union were ideological opponents. okay. and they kept the peace. there is no ideological difference here, except for i would say the west is far more ideological. but if you don't play by the rules of, of deterrence, that's the nightmare scenario plus go they don't believe in deterrence anymore, or they believe indeed thing, one way deterrence, they do not for steve, russia, as somebody who has a legend legitimate reason to, to who determines the, to me, the west is so full of it's set off at the moment that it has lost a capacity for strategic empathy. and trying to understand what the world looks like from your opponent's view point is a basic necessity of any saying foreign policy making. and the last 30 years off up are really polar of the pull above and has taken that away. and

so people like mister blink and all of us, they are literally not able to perceive any more the world from the viewpoint of the russians. and therefore they goes back to that day and therefore they think constantly rush res bluffing. they do not think it's real. this is a super huge problem. and it might landed in a nuclear all and then nuclear holocaust, if it continues because the russians are not the last thing. i don't believe groceries bluffing well. then, because from the brushes point of view, this is ex essential. i mean, we have an incoming of foreign affairs are for the european union call us uh, she wants the breakup of the russian federation. it's pretty expensive. oh, don't you think i mean, and the russians do believe in deterrence. and if you don't, if you have all of this ambiguity and decision making, it's going to make you apprehensive at the very, very least. go ahead, dan to. yeah, no, i mean, the russians do have an ex essential threat. you know,

the fact that these radar systems in russia were packed by ukraine that have nothing to do with defending against you credit, right? they were created under the soviet union at, as you know, so that they could proceed. strikes from intercontinental ballistic missiles from the united states. so course watch has to say, are you destroying these radar system? so you can have 1st dried capability against us. i mean that would be a rational conclusion to be drawn. meanwhile, yeah, abide and saying ukraine can use us and western weapon rate to attack russia deep within its territory. you have this attack on cry me on criminal crime. me and civilians recently, which may have used us weaponry and we cognizance. um, how could you know if she were on the other foot, if, if cuba, and, you know,

during the cuban missile crisis, this was a possibility, was using russian technology to attack targets within the united states to kill beach doors in miami. and the us would immediately response, i mean, in the how do we know that john kennedy said that that's what we would do. so obviously russia is under x is the central threat and frankly rush, it has to be applauded for it's incredible restraint in the face of all this. well, that's go, that's, you know, we, we know that, um, the defense minister here spoke to the secretary of defense in the united states for the 1st time, i think in 16 months, and we don't, we don't know what the readout is, but i can well imagine is that get your drones out of the black sea and of course not threatening, but saying there could be consequences if they stay. okay. again, being very restrained pasco, and that's maybe the, it only also to follow those days that it seems that for the 1st time these

casualties at the beach is of us. the pole uh, actually managed to worry people in the us in the highest levels. the, the secretary of defense to actually say like, we need to signal that this was not the intended. and that's actually something i believe. probably this is something that, at least from the us side, might not have been intended to. maybe i'm being too gracious yet. maybe it was, but it looks to me as if though based might have been a genuine kind of accident, like real collateral damage. and if the us for the 1st time understood that they might have crossed a line, then maybe we are getting closer to a point where strategic input the, as i just said, is again on the table, which is the minimum. yeah, but the go get to us, go discuss, i won't be so generous because it will have drones are being shot down over the black sea than the united states is going to have to reply. and do they really want

a go? i will go up the escalation ladder that's it will be the ball will be in there, court pest, cold, quick. before we go to the break. recently we have seen that the united states when push comes to shop, they actually walk back from the brain as with the wrong. i do think the same still goes for russia. our 3rd world war is not in the interest of the us and they do walk it back sometimes. and i hope it's the case also, they start, well, we have to keep our fingers crossed here. gentlemen, we're good to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine steak without the water is part of the the employee would posted isn't the deepest view of us and building the word or

is it something deeper, more complex might be present? good. let's stop without pleases. let's go products. welcome back. across stock were all things are considered computer la belcher manager were discussing ukraine. the let's go back to dan in, in pittsburgh here. dan, it's been report a bit of a foreign minister alive, but off had a conversation with the us and bass that are here in moscow. and the read out is pretty simple. we are no longer at peace, very interesting statement. how do you interpret that? well, 1st of all, he's stating the obvious that the u. s. is engaged in a proxy organs, russia. um, there's no way to interpret the situation any differently. so 1st of all,

our office simply stating what the world you know recognizes. but obviously what he also is saying, and that is a warning he's saying that look, we're not gonna sit around and continue to not respond to this. and, and that you, the united states is going to be a target. if you continue to attack the rushing heart land and you continue to threaten rush ex essentially, we will have to respond. we haven't responded so far against any united states targets, but that they may be coming soon. and i do hope the us gets them as well. task out, i mean to see what, obviously the nato is beating russia into responding in a way that they can point the finger that the russians are escalating the russians . having taken the bait thus far. but there's a wide variety of things that can happen, satellites being destroyed, drones being destroyed. i mean, it's going to be,

it'll be hard to make the argument, you know, article 5 has to be invoked, okay? so i mean, this is the, this is what makes it very, very tricky is we, we see both sides in parlaying. that's absolutely true, which is why this is such a dangerous moment. then this is something that a lot of people have warned about, including mr. law girls who said, if this keeps spirally, then you know, a, an accident might be interpreted as a publication or a pro vocation as an accident. then we don't know anymore. what's happening i'd, i do not believe, but the decision makers in moscow in washington. and even the, the satellites in key if and, and process and so on, that they, that all of them are on the same page. this is why it is imperative, absolute to imperative to get back to this whole she ation now. because we are rubbing closer and closer to a, a gulf of tonkin mold and, or, or a, what,

a lot of these issues, one of these sparks that can really cost another general european war or a 3rd. well, yeah, well and then, you know, when, when a president of united states, even if he's a candidate for re election, finds himself in a very deep trouble. i have to watch my language here of focusing the world. i think the public attention on foreign policy is always one of those things you can do here. it, it, it really bothers me very much a can in including everything we have said here is it, there is a path forward. i mean, the russians have said this, we have a starting point. now you may not like the starting point. i get that. okay, i got it. okay. it's called the ghost ations that we do all this. i live in the san here. let's start from that point. okay. the west refuses me even to put up anything except for this ridiculous zalinski program. go ahead, dan to yeah, i mean we have to be reminded that back in march of 2022, there was

a deal on the table that apparently zalinski would have been willing to accept which would allow the ukraine to keep all of its territory. that the u. s. u k blocked. you know, the truth is that deals off the table. they're not going to get back. well, they'll never get back right be, and they won't get back to don bass certainly. nor should the, in, in, in, in my own view. and the us and the west are gonna have to wake up to that, you know, but you mentioned that yeah, that the, a president that's and travel and guides and trouble. they like to focus elsewhere . so to, to try to, to be able to win. but you know, one way to focus else. why, how about bringing peace to somewhere? you know, now you've got a start, a war. the win is ridiculous. the american people, the polls show they want peace, they don't want to keep supporting ukraine. they want the us to stop the stop supporting israel's war. in does it, you know, why can't the administration wake up to the fact that maybe making peace could be

a winning a winning strategy for them? well, i mean pascal, i mean, if we look at the recent elections in, in europe, the, a piece of proposal is something that is far more positive. i mean, we, when we see a political party after political party supporting the american position on ukraine, they suffer at the polls. okay, badly. and we're going to see one in the u. k this week as well. that will probably go. both parties are very pro war, but we've seen this in the, in the european elections. that there's a lot of anxiety about where the european union is going. i always tell you the american line pascal that is true. on the other hand, unfortunately it's not enough yet. i mean, the centrist parties that are basically pro bore in, across the board in europe still have something between 50 to 60 percent off of support. the 40 percent that they lost is pretty huge compared to where they are coming from. but it is not huge enough in order to be aligned slide to kind of

kicked him out of power, which is what you're seeing in the u. k. like you'd change from one pro war party to the other one. and while support is roading it the, the, the, the inertial if the system is still strong enough to keep the, the people who actually want to push forward the war in power. and that's, that's, that's a tremendous problem. and i would hope that at some point, they understand that they need to change the narrative and didn't need to be come pro peace in order to remain there. but this, you know, it's a ship, it's a ship and it's below course. and i don't know if we can avoid the iceberg on time . although it seems as if though, the general public once does, there is theory. it was to continue your metaphor, post going. i mean, we all see the iceberg is it for everyone can see it just like we saw during that debate. everybody can see what's going on here. then you just said moments ago that the dog about should not be returned to ukraine, explained well, i've been to the dom bass, peter 3 times in the last year and

a half. and i can tell you that those folks don't want to go back to you crazy and why? because ukraine began attacking those people began attacking their own people. they were their own people at that time. they were part of ukraine and they attacked them because they were russian speaking people, and 14000 people died in that conflict between t as in the dom, best even before the special military operations began in 2022. i think, you know, once ukraine went down that road attacking its own people in the dog as it seated any right to have that as part of ukraine. in any case, these are historical parts of russia. these, you know, the john bass was the backbone of the russian revolution of the civil war and, and frankly, of the soviet union and of russia, you know, as the industrial hard land and, uh, you know, it is, they're not going back. they never want to go back in their way. she should be

respected. yeah, will self determination is something that we hear a lot about here. let's go, what country threatens ukraine more? russia are the united states. russia, as the russia is the one that, that bombs, the ukrainians, and the united states is the one that drives the ukrainians into the russian by on it. so if i was ukrainian, i would say, i would probably hate both of them. i mean if i was that's a very new that's their that's fair. yeah. keep going. now it's it's, it's an absolutely horrible thing. i mean the ukrainians are the greatest lakes victims. i mean every day ukrainians have a great this victims update. the 2nd victim instructions the, the, the, the ones that i wish were more humane would be the warmongers video collins in the united states. so actually on the stand that know we're playing with human lights here, but that's something that i think does not cross their minds because they still see

this as a strategic victory. which in all fairness it 8 us has never been in a better place into european theater off of geo politics than now. even in the last 30 years, i mean switch over to your strategic competitor check, get the europeans all behind you, even to what you want to do in, in china check. i mean, this is a huge us like 3, but it comes with a lot of the premiums. yeah, well then i agree with pascal, but i, even though the united states has gone through the check check, check that pascal that. i don't think that's necessarily good for a year, but i think they'll a lot of european voters are beginning to realize that, dan. yeah, well, i mean, europe lost its lifeline, which was natural gas from russia. i mean, and that's what the partner, what do you guys wanted to do in this conflict, is to cut them off from that so that they depend on us natural gas, which because of transportation costs will be a lot more expensive. if i were a german in particular,

i would be just absolutely furious that my economy had been wrecked. now if i wrote you, but by the united states and look, the people in europe are waking up to this, the elections in france show that, i mean, i think the elections turned out the way they did in large part because of france's a terrible foreign policy in regards to both russia and, and israel and a, you're going to see more government small in your is they realize they've been sold to build goods by the united states. pascal, what is next year between now and the election? because everybody is, is that as a benchmark here, you know, we have to wait up until the election. but what, what happens after the election in the united states, nobody talks about that, go ahead bus, go ideally, something would change, right? ideally, we would move towards toward final reconciliation with russia and the escalation with china. but to me, i think it's, that's probably my inner fairy tale. and um,

because what we have seen coming out of previous elections in the united states is that the permanent states carries on. so i have no objectives. oh, judging from from past elections that something is fundamentally going to change. maybe in the best case, we will see you at the escalation with a rough shot, but that would probably mean a re focusing of us efforts to china, which might be an even bigger. well over time, we're rapidly running out of time. but then i, i know that this ukraine is on its last legs, so you can make that case here. but nato nato is not on its last legs. people have to remember that in this conflict is gone, going to be over for quite a bit of time. go ahead den. well, that's right. you know, i mean, of course, the candidate donald trump is talking about making peace in ukraine. he says it can do in 24 hours. you know, that is, you know, could be taking his bluster,

look, he made good. um, you know, uh, noises before the 2020 election and really didn't. he didn't not become afraid to rush, i think because of pressure from the deep say well, you know, yeah, unfortunately we've run out of time, but i, i'll leave you with this thought with but with the wealth of you, even if donald trump gets selected, which i think is very unlikely in the, in the, the way the system is designed, but they'll in peach him before he is a knock you rated even if he wins. just i'll leave that with both that talk with both of you. that's all the time we have gentlemen. i want to thank my guests in pittsburgh and in kyoto. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our to see you next time. remember prospect the

the now you need your visa, stupid loyce law. he said to me, i think, you know, what kim's in the book is, that the nurses just me very gets to the young showcase. use the so he's going into the, by the ways that the boys, the probably the most new and that'll be for them. i'm not sure if this slaughter doesn't want that extra them put the notes up under that

part of the reasons why she picked the vice president, president commer harris is because she is indeed the future of the part as jo bought in his own democrats, all eyes begin turning on him, demanding a better candidate, def dad. again, donald trump is the november election. the white house hands are the who becomes the next us president at the us as it has nothing to do with a fairly cool attempt. and believe you as the south american countries to have the power and power with apparently in full lot of important needs with the leaders of your age of nations, including china, changing, paying and take kids out of on that boost the security ties or the salvage. they shrunk hi cooperation organization. the.