it is this idea that everybody is deserve, and that's just by virtue absorbing here the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm theater, live out the north atlantic treaty organization is celebrating its 75th anniversary in washington. this week, for many in the west, nato is deemed to be the most successful military alliance in history. for others beyond the west, nato is the most serious security threat to humanity. today, the

cross talking natal, i'm joined by my guess. erin, good in philadelphia. he is a political scientist historian, as well as author of american exception empire in the deep states in san francisco . we have k, j. know he is a political analyst and journalist and in lisbon we cross alexander guerrero. he is an international legal analyst. i gentleman cross talk roles and effect. that means he can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate, aaron, let me go to you 1st thing in philadelphia, and we have, we here over and over again. nato is the most successful military alliance in history is almost like getting f one on your computer. but you know, it is that are celebrating their uh 75th anniversary in washington. what achievements, how do they have under their belt, other than surviving as an alliance? that's the only quote unquote achievement. i can think of go ahead or as well they tow served to keep alive western imperialism and to re brand it as

a either under consolidated under the us band or as really of all of the colonial powers of the world. the united uh, basically the core of capitalism and imperialism for the proceeding centuries. and they were able to re branded as a defense of freedom, this very powerful force or a that had a lot of invest in capital all around the world. the us police that and nato was a, the tip of the spear, they're in a sense, especially as it began to expand into these, quote unquote peacekeeping missions and so on in the wake of the cold war of the aftermath of the cold war. and this led to it becoming something new, kind of different sort of a in force or for the, the, or global capitalism for the us, us empire listed imperialism. and but going back to the cold war, i mean, if it's a successful lot regime in that it's did stay in power for so long. but it's also existed as a kind of dictatorship of europe in certain ways. i mean the gladiators,

the gladiator networks were called nato secret armies by some people. and they were there as a kind of dictatorship in the wings for any western european leader that got out of line that they could stay small spiked hair attacks. so it, it put the lie to democracy because you can't really have a democracy when the state maintains a secret veto over the very lives of your heads of state. and can also engage that acts of pulse black terrorism to move the population politically wherever they want them. so this is really a dark horse in global politics that i don't think will be fully recognized by large parts of the public until the afternoon as the so many things of that we see in the last, you know, decades of especially the us empire is such a denial of about what that is at the top of it, at the corner of it, that i don't think we can deal with it until that power is, is decisively defeated. and perhaps when nato is dissolved,

we'll start talking about, well, you know, yeah, okay, it's really interesting, visa v, the ukraine, complex, nato has been able to devour as it were, the european union. i mean, it's, you know, you, the, the, it's nato, the dictates the security ideas of, of the entire union, the independence of states do not. so that is another on, not in nato as belt it. one of the interesting things, as they always talk about themselves as a defense of alliance, i'm calling this program offensive alliance. i wonder would people ins in serbia think about the term defensive alliance or libya and the failed mission in you in afghanistan? i mean, and also what they're doing and ukraine, i mean, they continue to say that they're not a party to the conflict with lisa, which is just laughable. go ahead. k j. yes, i've been, it's been the murderous on of us imperialism. and it's, as you said earlier,

it's great, his success has been, it's branding, or it's miscommunication of what it's really doing. it's not defensive. it's never for a defensive war in it's lifetime claims to be a collection of democracies. but no, it's never been democratic from the beginning. it was allied with fashion states like portugal delete. it was integral in ensuring the success of fascism around europe. and it even had lose one time. chief of stock adults posting go. he went from the chief of the nazi military command to the chief of the nathan military for not. and did you know of ports to uphold human rights and rule of law but actually destroyed human rights. it destroys human lives. it destroys a quote. and i think the way that the countries are and the world had largely seen through it and see what it is rested on us imperialism bein sports.

the goons on us. well, it's alexander, you know, they, they call themselves a defense of alliance. but if you look at the security architecture of europe, nato is an instrument in which european security is decided, not only without russia but against russia, and that's why we have the situation we have in ukraine. go ahead in lisbon. right here we are saying here in europe where we say the best defense is get that. and basically this is the, the, the, the, the topic that inspires the model that plays nato on east actions, swords and other countries. we must not forget the navy itself. it was created in lake nothing for special you to check goals and to block the communities as well as the self serve your union over your so the start to, to have any direction to fight russia. what do these russia after the whole are of the full of the early old things,

the chief jim drastically because they have and crumbling back them. a president that was all in favor of the west of useless. but suddenly, when the russians decided to have their own identities to make their own way by themselves, then again, russia rise as being understood here in the west as being anatomy. and as long as we have this kind of understanding to look at russia as anatomy and not as in our, we will keep only speeding social the rest. the serial in the ras innovation is like actually that's everything that marks. and that's the main brand off natal all over the world. so what we have knowing you brain, this is not a surprise if we take a look above how the united states worked so hard along with you'd be you and you just saul a democratically elected president. and it's right to be influenced the political

situation in your brain and we are witnessing now underneath those lives. this is understood as being a challenge on the life of their we, we as nate or we, as west, we have to defeat the independence, russia as well. as multiple or is this, you saw things understood and yeah, this is how nato is work is by spreading more and more locally pick news, but also to share and to provide a lot of weaponry to your brain. because the dream is not to save, your brain is not to have an independent your brain. they bowl their main goal is only to song of the russian and other russia. israel also can china, the 2 major powers into world war independently work independently from western needs and quote, you know, area and wait, wait, we heard from lloyd awesome. the secretary of defense early on in this complex are this part of the conflict they should say. because it started in 2014 not in 2022 is that the goal was to we can rush it and of course not only to, we can rush it, but to break it up we have, there are officials in the european union now, but say that openly,

go ahead aaron. the right that's clearly was the whole mind onto was about and it's more and more obvious that this is the case and it's the it, the whole episode highlights the real crisis at the top of the us regime because it should have been easy to game out that the you that the, the ukrainians, we're not gonna be able to defeat russia, that russell viewed this as a extremely important existential even battle for themselves. and that they would, they would not be able to defeat them, defeat russia in ukraine without provoking a response that would likely leads and go to nuclear war. then russia has been very methodical about treating the ukrainian military. that is essentially a nato military, a week after week after week. and when you, we were talking before about how you people predicted that this conflict put it in

pretty quickly and it absolutely should have ended very quickly. that was about to end in april. right. so that's why it's negotiations, and it's a truism and international relations and political science that you can't achieve anything at the negotiating table that you cannot achieve on the battlefield. but this wasn't really true for ukraine. ukraine could actually walk away with a much better deal that they never could achieve on the battlefield as we are seeing now. and was always obvious. and the, the war itself had the effect of imposing upon russia. the imperative that they had to engage in import substitute industrialization because of all the sanctions and everything else. but the us actually in the west, the liberal west of the early cold war, used to actually advocate this for countries, the head balance of payments pro, problems and so on. as a way to shore up their economic systems. and this is how the us became an economic power was through import substitute industrialization, taxing tariffs and taxing and ports,

and building infrastructure. that was how the us became and with power. that's all right. so we basically forced pressure to do things that were very beneficial for russia economically and industrially. and we hastened the end of the dollar regime . and we have wasted a massive amounts of money, some of which went to actually buy weapons and probably pay soldiers. but a lot of it was just embezzled by ukrainians. who are they're taking all of this money and just sacrificing their own countrymen for this doomed effort. that is really only made russia considerably stronger us and nato a weaker and destroyed ukraine. yeah, i mean k of the, the, the whole effort to turn the, the, the, the rubel into rubble is actually boomerang very, very strongly against the west. i mean, if you, if you're not a lift you live in russian, you don't follow the news. you wouldn't even though the country is sanctioned. go ahead take a real quick before we go to the break. absolutely,

and most countries have not gone along with those sanctions. it's the vast majority of countries, except for the e. u and some western european vassals, those are the only countries that have gone along with these unilateral illegal sanctions, most of the world has voted with their feet and they said we are not with the united states. we're not with nature. and so very clearly, as you point out in russia, you know, the sanctions on felt rushes. economy is doing fine. it's like it's doing much more . well, i mean, i was surprised a lot of viewers. i like the sanctions. i like them or get away from the toxic a financial system of the west because it doesn't have a future gentleman. i have to jump in here. we're going to go to wish a short break. and after that break, we'll continue our discussion on nato state with our to

the the car. i'm rick sanchez and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please do the have the state department c. i a weapons, bankers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. i changed and whatever you do, don't my show state main street because i'm probably going to make you

uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, it's not. we don't want to watch it because it might just change the wayne state the welcome back across stock where all things are considered. i'm peter le, about your mind. you were discussing nato. the alton roy started out this program by asking air and what the achieve, what nato was achieved on at 75th birthday here. but i, i found, you know, broken promises to be honest with you. and let's go through 4 of them real quick, one right after another. not one is in east talking about german unification. ok. they lied about that ukrainian neutrality. they lied about that indivisibility of security. they lied about that. and the whole minutes process,

they've proven to move themselves to be deceitful, liars, so i don't know what they're celebrating, but i think the, the, the dishonesty into cliff city of this alliance has to be highlighted. that's why i'm making this program. alexander. yes, basically they're celebrating all those countries that they help to fuel and rest. they also help to these members in that think about you was likely a probably on their neighbors perspective. this is a reason to celebrate a, specially for the present to present the secretary general do not to nations who are back then was primary sort of portugal and she support is fully then they do it . the ration daniels like it now sees the building and to try to call for it or be in, in, in your brain. but basically what you bring has been given guys what nato has been given us all over this time. was only the early speak agenda. only then will

solution that they want to gather more and more countries on the under the perspective of a boarding seer, rather than that, they will give any kind of defensive perspective. for example, you bring, they have the expectations to join nato. so wish we allow, it's highly unlikely. it will never happen, never bought. i bought the st possible. but this technically, it's highly unlikely, but i believe that they keep would keep pressure on the secretary general of nato to last to except down. at the same time, i believe that this is no police use us there. literally this we took the blue we far above these events on the be the building here. yeah. the way it was discussed in the base over west and meet with the media. yeah. and how this could be used in order to justify more and more weaponry support from day to, to you break. we never heard. we have never heard

a deal now. and not only natal officials, but also be in need of resource. speaking about bees about just never heard of about that we only hear the say kind of model which is destroyed and defeats russian. we have to that gras. yes. regardless of what did the fix, they will produce on your brain. and i have to ask, what do you guys like to bring? will we have in the next 22 years? will that even be great? what is this the project alternate to? is this an exam? well, you know, alexander, i don't think the nato under the leadership of the united states, gives a hoot about what happens to ukraine personally. okay. i mean, i suppose of these a lensky resume as illegitimate. as it is right now, they will always strive for nato membership as long as they get paid. okay, i don't know. do these people send their kids to the front? i tend to doubt it, you know, air and there's, i, i mentioned my,

my 3rd broken promise lie here. and i don't want to sound really nerdy, but you know, the indivisibility of security. this was what made your opinion security work. you can not enhance your security at the expense of another country. everybody agreed to that. everybody, if it was called the helsinki process. okay. and now they tow axes. if that doesn't exist, we'll rush it does. aaron. right, and we're seeing now with a position that israel finds itself in that it really is a huge security issue to have hospital military powers right on your doorstep. israel has been in this position where it should have tried to make peace with the people in the region, but it was so hell bent on an ex appropriating what the past indians had left, that they've antagonized all of their neighbors. and they find themselves surrounded by people who have missiles that can be aimed at them. and there's really no defense against that. ukraine armed with hypersonic missiles. what's the us will one day be able to produce, you know,

more efficiently in the near future. that would have been a disaster for rest of they would have been minutes away from the nuclear range of nato. moscow would have been, so it really was a tremendous thread and, and, and the legitimate threat. this wasn't an imperialistic land grab by a vladimir, put in the way that it's depicted in the west. brussel has lots of land and lots of resources. it really was motivated by a fear of security, that is part that is existence. so because it's the same logic that the us applied to cuba in the cuban missile crisis. and you can't really stop ballistic missiles that are very close to you as israel is finding out, you can just overwhelm all missile defense systems. and that's why this is, it was deemed it's such a huge threat in part, in the fact that it would have taken away their access to a warm water port which is essential for russia, which i think is part of the motivation for it. i think rushes,

the backing of syria made the you couldn't the neo cons that, that run us or policy for the last 30 is it made them go kind of insane that because they really, i think that there are people who are a large part of them are dedicated 1st and foremost to the idea of greater israel and syria stands in the way of the final solution is of the past in and since russia health, syria, as well, the rest of it had to be destroyed. i think that that might be the thing that best explains why they were not so greedy because that's what we expect from western imperialism. but greedy and single minded, it was stupid way to confront russia in a stupid well english. and so here, i mean, why they didn't, they, they know very little about history because let's, let's go back to the cold war. major new killer powers. don't go toe to toe. it's not a good idea. you know, why? because one might lose or both might lose. go back to the 19th century. great powers try to stay away from fighting each other because you could lose. ok,

look what happened in 1918 major powers finding each other one empire after another collapse. it's not a good idea to do it, and now we have new killer weapons. okay. that's what makes these people of fools and very, very dangerous k j. let me go to you. i mean, i, i promised myself i wouldn't make a program about, uh, biden's dementia, but the biden's, the mentor is inter interfering with our program. okay. we all know about the disastrous debate checks that's done. but then with the a b c, news interview with stephanopoulos. he a bite and was talking about his achievements. i expand nato. you just do americans really give a hoot about expansion of nato? i mean, considering half the country is for the debt that is there. be like so many people fear for their livelihood here. and you have this man saying, but i expanded nato. i mean, these people are really out of touch, you know, it's,

it's up. so, i mean, clearly by doing is no longer capable of, you know, exercising even minimal cognitive function. i think just the other day he said that he was the 1st of last price it on uh uh, sized for his that yeah, yeah. as vice president. so i think that, you know, in the united states, all you have to do is look around, you, people are starving, they're homeless. that hysterical the naked, they're suffering, you know, 50 percent of the us population does not have $600.00 to its name. and for joe biden, to go up in an interview and say that is great. accomplishment is expanding nato. i mean, i think all of us look around and say, you know which planet is this person living on it's absolute and total upset. well, you know, but alexander, explain to us why nato won't negotiate an end to this conflict in ukraine. by my account. russia is proposed 5 different times. and,

and as aaron pointed out with this, them bull process and weeks after the complex started in february of 2022. there was a, a sticker document that had been essentially initial, why can't nato negotiate an end to this? because when, when this comes to an end, make us go to look very bad, it may be, its very existence will be at stake. it has a choice. go ahead. well, are mostly, i honestly believe that natal steel holes that there's a liking the end of the tunnel that will allow them to exit no exaggerate. i liked the matter for light at the end of the tunnel, but you know what that light at the end of the tunnel is a train coming out to keep going. exist. exactly that, and that's pretty much look through what happens in. yeah, because they have the expectation that they will be saved and that they will be able to get off of this conflict in a clean way. and we'd all dig,

at least if it needs the need to face their own boulders and say, well, we have to do the best we have to achieve an agreement. but at least this was the best solution for everyone. because presently there is no best solution for natal. there's no good solution natal. simply these continue and trying to use your brain as a weapon against russia and until the moment that they will not be able to continue to do so on that moment. natal ones have any kind of excuse to go to your parking for this conflict. like you said, there was at least 5 attempts made by rushes to achieve reach a peace deal. the 1st one. it was not because your brain is even want to be, it was because your brand names were forced to languish. we have to cite to say this many, many other funds and i truly believe it or not. so this was the dance. there were several others. i don't believe that you gradients are pretty comfortable on,

continue fighting against the rest yet and every day. listening to the news and watching it with the end reading at the same time that another village another. another place passed full and at the same time, dozens or hundreds of you bringing the dairies personnel test i, i don't believe that they actually accept that to continue. so i think it's a solution. well, of it, but there, and if, if you know, if you're in the zalinski gang, i don't know how they cut up the spoils here. but i mean, it's an amazing griffith. i mean, well, keep it going as long as they possibly can. i'm sure they've got planes on the tarmac to fly them to miami or tel aviv. okay. or wherever they're going to go. i mean, this is at the end of the day that's a gripped and, and, and it, we have people like hunt like hunter bite. they bureau was the spear of it all. go ahead, aaron. yeah, it will be very interesting to see how this plays out the in the game here with these people because it's going to become clear to the training is if it's not all

ready that they have been robbed and sold down the river by these people. i think that those is the carrot and the stick. far zalinski is that he can, you know, steal and embezzle, you know, millions and millions of dollars from the money that the us gives you train. but he also, it faces death, potentially happy. you tries to reverse course. i think that the not the is own people by his own people. yeah. he has a nazi contingency that believes that this is some sort of eschatological conflict for them entered insane you know, an area and back and waterways. but i don't even understand the, it's the end of the day. a lot of people are going to leave and they going to be counting their money and no one will be held accountable for this catastrophe that never should have happened. gentleman, that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guest in lisbon, felt philadelphia and in san francisco. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. remember,

process rules. the, [000:00:00;00] the, the thousands of years humans had been looking into the star searching for answers here. nearly all the scientists continued that tradition. getting information from galaxies far, far away in hopes that humanity might survive in the future. is head of a special after physical observatory, home to many telescopes which leads were in for an interest in to the the can i just give us

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