looks stationed all around europe. however, the will of the people in greece is shown here, a nato, a flag and the star spangled banner also going up in flames. i guess some of those people haven't got enough of the blocks of rhetoric. they biology and demanded and immediate stop to the ukranian and publish thing and conflicts. even calling for us troops to leave the country. obviously to political risk and listen, veteran will correspond elijah of not me, who says to us on day to our operating without thinking that plan for washington is not showing the intention to escalate this war. and i think that is misunderstood by the way as a, as we behave rather than the strong behavior. and the west is taking advantage of the russian measure, reaction because russia is not going extremely heavy on ukraine, is not destroying all the affective, that the west is providing ukraine with these notes having

a very heavy hand on your brain. and this is where we started with us more beside that way, provided you a brain to drones that we have provided to brain 2 tanks. and then we we saw precision, besides long midsize. and now we have the 16. and on top of that, we're talking about with their weapons, all that because russia open the door and the last 2 years to the negotiation and saying no, this possibility is open. and i don't want to go heavier than what i am doing. because i want to negotiate, and this is not the way that war is conducted because we want at the end of the day to sit around negotiation table. a process shows really, it is def, i don't think the west is going to behave as it is behaving today. and this is why today we have about nuclear weapons and f sixteens,

the quick side that was around with the program here, the u. k, the u. k. government, i should say, once to mandate annual military service for those over the age of 18. and if the teenagers refuse driver's license is can be canceled. and that the bank accounts even close more detail online. i mean talking with the the hello and welcome to cross ok. we're all things are considered. i'm theater, lavelle, outgoing nato general secretary stilton bird claims, a russian victory in the ukraine. conflict is the biggest risk to the us led

military blocks. this is all the more reason russia will achieve its goals in this proxy war, the crossing nato. i'm joined by my guess, ray mcgovern in raleigh. he is a former c. i a analyst in washington. we have wilmer liam. he is a political scientist, author and radio talk show host, and in salt lake city, we cross to david pine. he is deputy director of national operations for the task force on national and homeland security. all right, gentlemen. crosstalk rules. in fact, that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate re let me quote, the outgoing general general said try and make yourself number of you said a russian victory and ukraine would change the global system. well, i actually agree with him and i think it wouldn't be a bad idea. go ahead, right. as well. i'm reminded that this 3 weeks ago to chain himself

talked about starting back and said that, you know, he dealt with them when he was present the driveway and at that point he showed no signs of dementia. this is the thing i remember about stone. burger, most of all is his fold paused grunt day before the e u parliament on let's say of september 7 last year where he said, you know, the russians offer the send bill. yep. um, you know, if you stop trying to get your credit in there, so it was not in days, so it was no boot and they go all way. well is that reset? oh, is in the store. they invaded it, got the guy looked the kind of the bag, right? that it is, you created nato. this time would communicate is pretty much the same as last time when we all agree where that seems appropriately conditions are right. but the

whole thing has to do with russia needing reassurance, right? that ukraine will be neutral and nobody seems willing to even enter chain that notion. so maybe stall bird is showing signs now of incipient, so it may be mid term dementia. what the, the, well, what we, it's hard to say with him is an individual that i can clearly say the, as an organization. it's 75. okay. it started a little early in the case of nato, but there is certainly a demented point of view there. wilma and one of the interesting things is we had a pending unofficial thing. nato is preparing for a prototype for a protracted wars. i thought it was a defensive alliance. so i mean they, they, they constantly blur what their mission is here. i mean, well, if you're defensive alliance, why do you have to expand? no one's explained that to me. well, it's a defense is supposed to be a defense of alliance. i think that in a nato is

a north atlantic. they're trying to expand into the pacific. they talk about championing human rights, but they somehow decided to invade libya. they can't seem to understand and what their mission truly is. and also it's important understand that really their mission has their tenure, their mission has passed. and i think the leadership knows that the, that the jig is up, they know that their time is over, but they're sitting in this vacuum talking to themselves and encouraging themselves so that they can reinforce their own insecurities. i mean, we see, for example, in the washington post, they say that they're trying to trump proof of nato. and in order to prevent trap from doing any damage to nato, or to prevent the elimination of nato itself. well,

that right there tells you that they clearly understand that their time is wayne and final point. as they talk about, they have to have victory in ukraine. the premise that they're using is because if russia, when they will take over europe, take over the world and then move on to the mon. no. what that demonstrates is that nato itself will collapse, and i don't know how that they can expand geographically, but they don't have any bullets because they're out of weaponry. so who are they going to fight and what are they gonna fight with? well, you know, david, the whole point, i mean, if you look at the origins of nato, which kind of makes sense, that was the cold war of the soviet union had its own military block. the more so impacting, came into existence after the establishment of nato. it was an ideological struggle and of primarily for the soviet union was to maintain its gains and the 2nd world war and to have security against a revenge as west germany like cetera,

etc. but then the natal up to date doesn't think in terms of security at all. because because if you had a security architecture in europe, you wouldn't need nato because it wouldn't be a new architecture would include russia and be with russia that we have, it's against russia without russia. that's nato. it's afraid of that because then it would risk its own existence. david a absolutely right, yeah. so nato was a lot of those bits of the lines up until the end of the soviet union. when the worst soft pack was disbanded, un nato, she knew full well the biggest span shortly thereafter as well. 1994 when all russian troops were withdraw from eastern europe. um, at this point uh, you know, natal began to be in advance of alliance with uh its uh, brutal bombing of uh, of serbia yugoslavia and 1999. and uh, is this been mentioned,

it's continued in with the libya, syria and canal in the parade. and there's a, you know, the only the only path to security for nato never states is by having some kind of mutual security frame. or notice of the event i, uh, with the, with russia, right, as there's really no other path. and so, but david, we, we had that with the soviet union with the helsinki process. we had that, okay, the indivisibility of security. we had that, okay. and, and, and re now the us as a noun, so they will deploy previously band nucular capable missiles to germany. we're going backwards re, we had the i n f treaty. we're going backwards re yeah, peter, you know, i go back to the abm treaty, which gave the strategic stability for 30 years, 3 decades. count them. i was instrumental in that treaty. i was so chief of the

soviet our policy bridge. and we told kissinger and next, and the russians are really serious about those. they didn't want to spend themselves into oblivion and they were afraid. china was going to steal a march on them. we provided the a for all of her i the the trust but verify. we provided the verification stuff and and that was an ad in scott ritter as squared sort of my my life's work. notice stage. okay, now you have scott ritter is life's work. the neutral, the immediate range, nuclear forces create a cup, put that last that 30 till years problem got out of that. and now as you say, there's a special arrangement where new medium range ballistic measures are going to go with the german or just like the pershing choose way back in the eighty's per guide . say, we're just dried them in the eighty's. it surprised the hell out of me that we

could agree with the rush just to destroy a whole class of nuclear missile, but we did it. now we're back to square one or even worse. so i have some words to say about the f sixteens as well, but perhaps go ahead and went ahead and go, go ahead, go ahead, right, go ahead as well. you know, i was thinking back to when f sixteens or got came to the for a bite in, was there japan, a barcode fell after losing hundreds to thousands of ukrainian troops. right. i zalinski goes off to tokyo to the g. 7 we're biting is, is that where your last fight in turn? so sullivan says what we're gonna do? i'm the how about? yeah, let's give eps exchange and that's when buttons and houses. so he's gonna let our allies go metric state. now that's the kind of decision making, i mean, did they check with the pedagogy to the checklist, but no, no, no, that's we need those that right away. now what's gonna happen when the f 16 is good,

shut down. yep. and the, the other stuff puter is out all these same people. there's a well missed the present. yeah, we have this a low you blow your mind to do player weapon. so maybe that's the only day we have now. well, i really was ready to, i'll tell it to it so well, i'm right. i mean, the, the only, the only way forward for nato visa, the ukraine, is escalation. and what's really, what's at stake, the very existence of ukraine. and as, as ray is pointed out, they entering into the realm of thinking about a new killer war. i mean, this is going into the realm of insanity. go ahead and watch it is. it is already in the realm of insanity in what re points out very, very clearly is there is no strategy here. there is, when you just say we were losing, what do we do now? oh, let's give them f sixteens. there's what is the desired outcome

and results and if the desired outcome end result is the, the do dissolving the russian federation. um, that's just not going, but we all know that's the goal. we all know that that's, that's just and i want to walk to the main, but i don't think that that's going to happen anytime soon. and what they're willing to do is risk nuclear annihilation in pursuit of a fantasy. so that the military industrial complex or the mickey met as re, likes to refer to it can generate more revenue now. okay, david, that's a good point. in lieu of a strategy, let's just keep enriching the arms producers. okay. inside the beltway, so they can buy another house in the hamptons. go ahead. yeah, i mean, the strategy a big guy is for the us to maintain its, uh, its iron grip on, on data, which is really just uh, you know,

as part of the americas liberal empire and consist of, uh, imperial dependencies of united states. what we need to do here in the us is to transform us back to republic from empire and, and i think president trump is moving, you know, forward in that direction with the plan to restructure nato. hold us troops out of the eastern europe. perhaps even a hand over the david where i get it, we're approaching the bank here, but it took trumpets elected on that platform. don't you think they'll in peach him before and all your ration? well, it depends on whether there's, it's a, it's a democrat control house. i mean, if he wins, uh, we're gonna, you know, republicans will keep the house. so i don't. okay, well i, i guess i'm being kind of facetious, but i think that they would have someone, lindsey graham would lead, read me the charge. right, gentleman, i have to jump in here. we're going to go to a hard break and now it's about hard break. we'll continue our discussion on nato at 75 years old. stay with are

the the, the the,

the russian states never is as tight as one of the most sense community best. i'll send, send the send, the 65 to 5 must be the one else calls question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin mission, the state on russia to day and split the r t. suppose that keeping our video agency roughly all the band on youtube, the said this was a request, which is the

welcome. next across stock. were all things are considered on peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing nato at 75 years old. the ok, let's go back to re, obviously, nato is not in the mood. maybe it's incapable of compromise, even if in its own best interest, it's unwilling to compromise. but you know, as they're celebrating in washington, what comes to mind for me or broken promises? let me enumerate here, not one step in east we met, that's 1st one ukrainian neutrality, another lie, indivisibility of security. i've already mentioned that on this program here. and

of course, we all remember the minutes process here. so, um, even if there were miraculously a piece feler, why would the russians believe anything coming out of the current administration, particularly considering who is in the, in the oval office, right. as well as the russian were new for me. uh the lot, and this was this most certainly okay. incapable of reaching an agreement. okay, that's what they use now for the us. and then in addition to the 3 you mentioned, i would simply say that not many people know that biden told to chain directly in person on the telephone, on the 30th of december. yes, that's the us. we're not deployed offensive strike muscles and ukraine. 3 weeks later, geneva loved rough approach, blank, good nature. what about that? we're talking about that now. i'm like, yeah, that's that. but forget about that. we have the right to put the opposites or

stripe processing your grade. maybe we're talking about how many would play but so there was another one. and last but not least, of course, most as there's a lot of the agreement that was made out there in uh, in an east stumble. and march april of 2022, where the initials were on those agreements and bodies. johnson came in there. okay . and so now and no agreement where none of these damn russians, we're gonna bite on bite on and we'll give you everything i need to provide. yeah. well, it's all in so you made a very poor choice app, but now we see the results of all that. well, i mean i'm, but i'm sure his bank account is a benefit enormously and the people around him. i mean, he's not even the legal president. okay. he's head of the cube regime. well, and what are the interesting things that i've been watching over the years? is you know, we even at this summit and watch and then they're talking about expansion. okay. um

uh, continuing to do so in the balkans a and then going into central asia. i if i'm not mistaken, an official from armenia was invited to the to the conference so. but it seems to me that ne toes ambitions are not just as we see it right now, but they want to replace the united nations. we have, there's a rules based order. they have their own sense of, of legality is against international law. it's against international institutions, and this is, this is kind of nato's a. it's a vehicle for the united states maintain, had gemini, go ahead and washington. and as we know with the rise of the shanghai cooperation organization and the operative word, there is cooperation with the rise of of bricks with the rise of the organization of the state health states. the time for this imperialist expansion has ended

the folks at nato. they just haven't gotten the memo yet. and because now the ship nato is a militaristic organization. and when you look at the seo, when you look at bricks, when you look at the shanghai, when you look at the health states, they are operating collectively from an economic perspective. and this takes me quickly back to what i'm one of my favorite films, the godfather, when, when, when virgil, the church, the lots on says and tom, he says look, i don't like violence, i'm a business man. blood is expensive. and the united states wants to. and especially things to lindsey graham spread all the ukrainian blood he can get his hands on while these other countries are moving beyond that, starting their own currencies so that they can engage in trade, which leads to development. yeah, uh and development and gender security as well. david, you know,

also kind of parting shot from the, the nato conferences targeting china. be, and it's claims of dual use technology. it's owing to the russians. they've never been really clear about that. but, you know, a china is enabling russian ukraine, but it's a nato, it enabling other more as well. and you crazy, they never seem to get the balance there. go ahead. david, a stream we have a hypocritical for the us and data to argue that china is not allowed to aid aid to russia militarily or strategically. well, uh, you know, the us is providing a long range missiles with which to hit the russian targets deep inside rush and even, you know, potentially missile defense radar. so to take out the, you know, chuck, so for us is a nuclear command control system. so uh, yeah it's, it's, uh, it's time that, uh, we establish kind of a, a revised international order which reflects your national orders. it currently

exists with russia. china us is a, is the only nuclear super bowers been without this empire of the u. s. is established in europe, it re, you know, the ins and outs of government and decision making. who is making this a nato policy in washington, who is making ukraine policy in washington, who's making russia policy in washington to the seller selling name sullivan, and the name blinking. and so a supporting actor austin and victoria nolan, the hiding in the shadows for the ladies from still in the west wing their and they're in control. and, you know, maybe the best evidence of that is that on the way out of that is just this administration is not in the way out. and they decide that they'll pick china now is the bidding why as the enable or as they say a and as the you know,

as the blame for all this stuff. and if you look at china and they've already, as david said, call it out as hypocritical. but if you also look very closely at how the world is divided now, and india just having come from a hot summer with food chain. and you're looked at the nato folks. so did anyone notice anything this? think about all those nato poke, saw 32 of them. they're all white. you're old, but like the rest of us. ok, they're all white. right? well, and, and many of them are from countries that were the great colonial powers. same thing that's exactly right. so the whole world sees that and how we're of isolated russia gimme a break with isolated ourselves. and that's this very clear by moti shows that the mosque was very clear by, by this last gash. now, as far as data is concerned,

and nothing is going to happen in ukraine until after november, when in the us election it takes place. but then data is got a really worry about its longevity and whether it's so has any useful usefulness at all, it might be quite well more. i mean, this is the thing, this is a craving choice. then the nato is made. you know, it's almost like do or die. it's a s x essential. but if it's a choice, they don't have to make this choice. they can say, well, you know, we should have a new security arrangement that's, that's what needs to be done. that's what russia offered before this all happened, but they can't do it as well. you put it in the context of do or die. i would put it in the context of do or suicide. because the, the united states via nato started the conflict with russia via ukraine. the united states is trying, it's best to start a fight with china. the tie one there, you know, there's an adage on the corner,

don't start and that won't be that. and they don't seem to understand that. so if you just stop trying to punch the, the adversary in the eye and sit down and have some conversations, maybe we can find them avenue to piece. but as gills got here and says, ask them why they're fighting for, and they'll never tell you the economics of war. it was a david, even though there's a lot of bluster, you know, when you think about what, what the military capacity to be. don't we take uh, off the table on nucular capacity, the military's in, in, in nato. we're not that particularly strong, but they're not really well funded. turkey has the biggest army, they're not getting involved in this at all here. i mean, it's a lot of a bureaucrats in my mind that have really plus jobs and you know, they're threatening the global war, but this, but they, they don't really have capacity other than

a new killer capacity. go ahead david. yeah, this is absolutely true. i mean, uh, the, uh, britain, france and germany each can per deploy up to one brigade in eastern europe. whereas, you know, the u. s. can provide more than that. of course, maybe a couple $100000.00 troops if we, if we were to search. but in a rush it has uh, 12 combined arms arbys. uh they might have more and yeah that's, that's how much they start out with. and a by triple the size of their, of their ground forces double this. you know, they increase their military by 50 percent, they increase the military spending by, by a double in their, their now it's a head cold war level. so a spinning in the sizes of their armed forces. so, you know, the us and nato are, are much weaker than it than have been presented in, in a, in a conventional or even just the conventional. and i got a cyber war. i think russian would be victories. i wouldn't, you know, wouldn't think that they, you know, russian troops would drive to the,

to the lives channel, but certainly they could take that all the eastern europe without a whole lot of difficulty. right. we got one minute left here. how will history remember this guy con tab and washington this week? well, hopefully they'll get paid up below the headlines. hopefully they'll know that there's adequate proof that russia does not intend to go beyond ukraine, so to speak, the accords in each stumble. in march, april 2022 showed that 13 did stop and then it was double crossed. our case stopped before it took all right or ukraine. so why is it going to go to fall into the english channel? so seldom has there been a case where some, some serious as so been adequately debunk beforehand. for god say rush, i did stop. it's not going to stop now. well, the problem is the domain we have right out of time nato doesn't want to stop. that's the problem. i want to take my guess in raleigh, washington in,

in salt lake city. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our d. so you next time remember prospect tools, the the look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings accept. we're so shorter that conflict with the 1st law show your events as a patient. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence at the point, obviously is to great trust, rather than fit the various things with artificial intelligence. we have somebody with theme the robot most protects his phone existence was on

the and now i want to hand it over to the president, ukraine who has as much courage as he has determination page. i'm a president put off the lights, the wrong button. nobody's ho joe biden, fumbling and folding flat during that speech. right, the wrapping up the nato summit in washington. and while the blocks meeting ends in a gaff. 5 lead is a circling the wagons around joe biden, to spinning a narrative that the us president still has it all up present part and lead through that there is an incredible achievement about this account. some of them like to get it as credit for that inexperienced man because he is undoubtedly one of those around.