to before i let you go, so i just wanted to ask you very, very quickly. uh, that was a baffled that has been investigated by israeli officials and i keep boots battery on october. the 7th. well, over a 100 is ready civilians were killed by is railey forces. i interviewed a senior hum us official a couple of months ago. and he said on october, the 7th, israel enacted the hannibal doctrine and resulted in a lot of unnecessary civilian depths of his radius. do you know anything about, can you comment briefly? actually just done today and is used in civil cases. i'm not sure i cannot confirm whether this is was used on the 7th of october or not, but obviously according to the media report, it was a use this dr. drain is a, an army doctoring that for the army actually to show in order to stop any hostage they can. so i assume that maybe, yes, it was used. this is cause lots of casualties in, within disobedience on october 2nd. well,

i appreciate you addressing that. so how from says if the director general of the palestinians, human rights watched all the live here on ology international from around my law. thank you very much for spending your time with us here at. ok. thank you for joining us as well. you'll and use return to the top of the hour with my colleague motor. that's how much the the the

hello and welcome to cross ok. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, outgoing nato general secretary stilton burg claims. a russian victory in the ukraine. conflict is the biggest risk to the us led military blocks. this is all the more reason russia will achieve its goals in this proxy war, the cross fucking nato. i'm joined by my guess, ray mcgovern in raleigh. he is a former c. i a analyst in washington. we have wilmer liam. he is a political scientists author and radio talk show host, and in salt lake city, we crossed to david pine. he is deputy director of national operations for the task force on national and homeland security. all right, gentlemen. crosstalk rules and the fact that means it can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate re let me quote, the outgoing general general said try and make yourself number of the said

a russian victory and ukraine would change the global system. well, i actually agree with him and i think it wouldn't be a bad idea. go ahead. right. well, yeah, i'm reminded that just 3 weeks ago who changed himself. talked about starting back and said that, you know, he dealt with them when he was present in the driveway and at that point he showed no signs of dementia. this is the thing i remember about stone. burge, most of all, is his full pod grunt day before the d. u parliament. on let's say, of september 7 last year where he said, you know, the russians offered to send bill. yep. um, you know, if, if you stop trying to get your credit in there, so it was not in days so it was not okay. and they go all we while is a reset. oh is in the store. they are very big guy. the guy looked at

kind of the bag, right? that it is, you created a so this time would communicate is pretty much the same as last time. well, we all agree where that seems appropriately, conditions are right. but the whole thing has to do with russia needing reassurance, right? that ukraine will be neutral and nobody seems willing to even entertain that notion . so maybe stall bird is showing signs now of incipient, so it may be mid term. dementia was a well, but we, it's hard to say with him as an individual that i can clearly say the as an organization, it's 75. okay. it started a little early in the case of nato, but there is certainly a demented point of view there. wilma, one of the interesting things is we had a pending unofficial thing. nato is preparing for a prototype for a protracted wars. i thought it was a defensive alliance. so i mean they, they, they constantly blur or what their mission is here. i mean, well,

if you're defensive alliance, why do you have to expand? no one's explained that to me. well, it's a defense. it's supposed to be a defense of alliance. i think the n a, a nato is a north atlantic. they're trying to expand into the pacific. they talk about championing human rights, but they somehow decided to invade libya. they can't seem to understand and what their mission truly is. and also it's important understand that really their mission has their tenure, their mission has passed and i think the leadership knows that the, that the jig is up. they know that their time is over, but they're sitting in this vacuum talking to themselves and encouraging themselves . so that they can reinforce their own insecurities. i mean we see for example in the washington post, they say that they're trying to trump proof of nato. and in order to

prevent trap from doing any damage, tomato or to prevent the elimination of nato itself. well, that right there tells you that they clearly understand that their time is wayne and final point they talk about. they have to have victory in ukraine. the premise that they're using is because if russia, when they will take over europe, take over the world and then move on to the moon. know, what that demonstrates is that may to itself will collapse. and i don't know how that they can expand geographically, but they don't have any bullets because they're out of weaponry. so who are they going to fight and what are they gonna fight with? well, you know, david, the whole point. i mean, if you look at the origins of nato, which kind of makes sense, that was the cold war of the soviet union, had its own military block, the warsaw pact,

and came into existence after the establishment of nato. it was an ideological struggle and of primarily for the soviet union, was to maintain its gains in the 2nd world war and to have security against a revenge as west germany, weak cetera, etc. but then the nato up to date doesn't think in terms of security at all. um, because the, because if you had a secure already architecture in europe, you wouldn't need nato because it wouldn't be a new architecture would include russia and be with russia that we have, it's against russia without russia. that's nato's afraid of that because then it would risk its own existence. david. absolutely right, yeah. so nato was a lot of the best of the lions up until the end of the soviet union, when the worst off pack was disbanded, the nato should as well. um bid his band shortly thereafter as well as 1994 when

all russian troops were withdrawn from eastern europe. um, at this point uh, you know, natal began to be an expensive alliance with uh its uh, brutal bomb. you know, a lot of serbia yugoslavia and 1999 and uh, it has been mentioned discontinued and with the live use syria and to now in the brain. and uh, there's uh, you know, the only the only path to choose security for nato never states is by having some kind of mutual security braver. notice that event i, uh, with the, with russia pres, there's really no other path. and so, but david, we, we had that with the soviet union with the helsinki process. we had that, okay, the indivisibility of security. we had that, okay. and, and, and re now the us as a noun, so they will deploy previously bands. no, no new killer capable missiles to germany. we're going backwards re, we had the i n f treaty. we're going backwards. right?

yeah, peter, you know, i go back to the abm treaty which gave a strategic stability for 30 years, 3 decades count them. i was instrumental in that treaty. i was so cheap of the soviet our policy bridge and we told kissinger and next and that the russians are really serious about this. they didn't want to spend themselves into oblivion and they were afraid. china was going to steal a march on them. we provided the a for all of her i the trust but verify. we provided the verification stuff and and that was an ad in scott ritter as squared sort of my my life's work. notice stage. okay, now you have scott ritter is life square. the neutral, the intermediate range nuclear forces create a cup, put that last a 30 tell years from got out of that. and now as you say, there's

a special arrangement where new medium range ballistic measures are going to go with the german or you just like the pershing choose way back in the eighty's per guide. say we're just dried them in the eighty's. it surprised the hell out of me that we could agree with the rush just to destroy a whole class of nuclear missile, but we did it. now we're back to square one. or even worse, i have some words to say about the f sixteens as well, but perhaps go ahead and we'll go ahead and go, go ahead, go ahead, right, go ahead as well. you know, i was thinking back to when f sixteens or got came to the for a bite in was in japan, a barcode fell after losing hundreds to thousands of ukrainian troops. right. as a wind screen goes up to tokyo to the g. 7 we're biting is, is that where you last fight in turn? so sullivan says what we're gonna do, i'm the, how about, yeah, let's go back to the exchange. and that's when biden's announces that he's going to

let our allies give metric state. now that's the kind of decision making. i mean, did they check with the pedagogy, the checklist? no, no, no. that's we need those up right away. now what's gonna happen when the f? 16 is good, shut down. yep. and the, the other stuff puter is out. all the same people, there's a wellness, the president. yeah, we have this a low you blow your mind. you look player weapon. so maybe that's the only day we have now. well, but he really likes raise, you know, the to, i'll tell it says a, well, i'm right. yeah, i mean, the, the only, the only way forward for nato visa, the ukraine, is escalation. and what's really, what's at stake, the very existence of ukraine, and as, as ray is pointed out, they entering into the realm of thinking about a new killer war. i mean, this is going into the realm of insanity. go ahead and watch it is. it is already in the realm of insanity in what re points out very, very clearly is there is no strategy here. there is,

when you just say we were losing, what do we do now? oh, let's give them f sixteens. there's what is the desired outcome and results and if the desired outcome end result is the, the do dissolving the russian federation. um, that's just not going, but we all know that's the goal. we all know that that's, that's just and i want to walk to the main, but i don't think that that's going to happen anytime soon. and what they're willing to do is risk nuclear annihilation in pursuit of a fantasy. so that the military industrial complex or the making that as re likes to refer to it can generate more revenue now. okay, david, that's a good point. in lieu of a strategy, let's just keep enriching the arms producers. okay. inside the beltway,

so they can buy another house in the hamptons. go ahead. yeah, i mean, the strategy a big guy is for the us to maintain its uh, its iron grip on, on data, which is really just uh, you know, it's part of the americas liberal empire and consist of uh, imperial dependencies of united states. what we need to do here in the us is to transform us back to republic from empire and, and i think president trump is moving, you know, forward in that direction. with the plan to restructure nato. hold us troops out of the eastern europe. perhaps even a hand over the david we're getting, we're approaching the bank here. a bit of tough trump is elected on that platform. don't you think they'll in peach him before and all your ration? well, it depends on whether there's, it's a, you know, it's a democrat control house. i mean, if he wins, uh, we're gonna, you know, republicans will keep a house. so i okay. okay, well i,

i guess i'm being kind of facetious, but i think that they would have someone, lindsey graham would lead, read me the charge. right, gentleman, i have to jump in here. we're going to go to a hard break amounts about hard breaks. we'll continue our discussion on nato at 75 years old. stay with our the, [000:00:00;00] the recognize give us updates come for the web study question. like joe showed you where you develop is that song, some of the 5 you have to list to look forward to starting the chest. this is, i cannot get into

the demo that you're going to be at the most of those the task of days compared to what it was that to me up. let's see, the desk. they both way way. can you go to new took a look at a latham bell. i'm sure it's very question. the stuff you wish i city? good march the 22nd. 1943. doing the great petri, i think. the shirts and a bunch of fatality and 118 son down the belly,

mercy and village of cutting the ship of them personally for the new wish and luxury is put on yes, the previous to this one, most of the stuff for them to pony it to you. 149 people died, including 75 children of age was practically wiped off the face of the la new blue loves of the orchard and couldn't. charlie was no noisy and will you put it as follows? oh, shoot. was a hot, really, i really usually its own. you feeling yourselves the infamous battalion responsible for the actual city included over $100.00 ukrainian national is from west to new. right. because of the picture, talk with them with the simple to car and so far as the new e phone, the so long as to you just for assume you know,

i'm with them. you as customers really declassified criminal cases from the central archive of the k g b, a better rules shut the lights on the atrocity. and on so numerous questions that have remained an onset for many years. watch on archie. the welcome make across stock. were all things are considered on peter level. to remind you, we're discussing nato at 75 years old. the ok, let's go back to re, obviously, nato is not in the mood. maybe it's incapable of compromise, even if it, in its own best interest. it's unwilling to compromise. but, you know, is there celebrating in washington? what comes to mind for me or broken promises and let me enumerate here, not one step in east we met, that's 1st one ukrainian neutrality, another lie, indivisibility of security. i've already mentioned that on this program here. and

of course we all remember the mens process here. so um even if there were miraculously a piece feler, why would the russians believe anything coming out of the current administration, particularly considering who is in the, in the oval office, right. as well as the russian were new for me. uh the lot and this was this most certainly. okay. incapable of reaching an agreement. okay. that's what they use now for the us. and in addition to the 3 you mentioned, i would simply say that not many people know that biden told to change directly in person on the telephone, on the 30th of december. yes, that the us for not deployed offensive strike muscles in ukraine. 3 weeks later, geneva loved off approach blinker nation. what about that? we're talking about that now. i'm like, yeah,

that's that. but forget about that. we have the right to put the opposite side process and you're great. maybe we're talking about how many would put it in, but so there was another one. and last but not least, of course, was the, there's a lot of the agreement that was made out there in the, in the east stumble. in march, april of 2022, where the initials were on those agreements and bodies. johnson came in the u. k. and so now and no agreement where none of these damn russians, we're gonna bite on bite on and we'll give you everything you need to prevail. well, so then, so you made a very poor choice app, but now we see the results of all that. well, i mean i'm, but i'm sure his bank account is a benefit enormously and the people around him. i mean, he's not even the legal president. okay. he's head of the cube regime. well, and one of the interesting things that i've been watching over the years is, you know, we, even at this summit and watch and then they're talking about expansion. okay. um uh,

it continuing to do so in the balkans a and then going into central asia. i, if i'm not mistaken, an official from armenia was invited to the, to the conference so, but it seems to me that ne toes emissions are not just as we see it right now. but they want to replace the united nations. we have, there's a rules based order. they have their own sense of, of legality is against international law. it's against international institutions. and this is, this is kind of nato's a, it's a vehicle for the united states maintain, had gemini, go ahead and washington. and as we know with the rise of the shanghai cooperation organization and the operative word, there is cooperation with the rise of bricks with the rise of the organization of the state health states. the time for this imperialist expansion has ended

the folks at nato. they just haven't gotten the memo yet. and because now the ship nato is a militaristic organization. and when you look at the s e o, when you look at bricks, when you look at the shanghai, when you look at the health states, they are operating collectively from an economic perspective. and this takes me quickly back to, uh, what i'm one of my favorite films, the godfather, when uh, when, when virgil, the turks and lots of says and tom, he says look, i don't like violence, i'm a business man. blood is expensive. and the united states wants to and especially things to lindsey graham spread all the ukrainian blood he can get his hands on while these other countries are moving beyond that, starting their own currencies so that they can engage in trade, which leads to development. and yeah, uh and development in general,

security as well. uh, david, you know, also kind of parting shot uh from uh, the nato conferences, uh, uh, targeting china, be uh, and its claims of dual use technology, its selling to the russians. they've never been really clear about that, but you know, a china is enabling russian ukraine, but it's a nato, it enabling other more as well. and you crazy, they never seem to get the balance. they are go ahead, david. yeah, it's extremely happy, hypocritical for the us and nato to argue that china is not allowed to aid aid to russia militarily or strategically. well, you know, the us is providing a long range missiles with which to hit russian targets deep inside rush and even, you know, potentially missile defense radar. so to take out the, you know, chucks of a, a for us is a nuclear command control system. so uh, yeah it's, it's, uh, it's fine, but uh, we establish kind of a,

a revised international order which reflects your national orders. it currently exists with russia. china, us is a, is the only degree superpowers been without this empire of the us is established in, in europe. it re, you know, the ins and outs of government and decision making. who is making this nato policy in washington, who is making ukraine policy in washington, and who's making russian policy in washington, a strong, solid name sullivan, and the name blinking. and so a supporting actor austin and victoria nolan, the hiding in the shadows. the ladies from still in the west wing their and they're in control and you know, maybe the best evidence of that is that on the way out of that is just this administrator is not in the way out. and they decide that they'll pick china now is

the bit know why as the enable or as they say a and as the you know, as the blame for all this stuff. and if you look at china and they've already, as david said, called it out as hypocritical. but it also look very closely at how the world is divided is down. and india, just having come from a hot summer with food chain. and you're looked at the nato phone, so did anyone notice anything this? think about all those nato poke. so $32.00 of them. they're all white. you're all like the rest of us. ok. they're all white, right? well, and, and many of them are from countries that were the great colonial powers. same thing that's exactly right. so the whole world sees that and how we have isolated russia . give me a break. we have isolated ourselves. and that's is very clear by moti shows that the mosque was very clear by, by this last gash. now as far as data is concerned,

and nothing is going to happen in ukraine until after november, when in the us election it takes place. but then, you know, it's got a really worry about it's longevity and whether it's so has any useful usefulness at all? it might be quite well more. i mean, this is the thing, this is a craving choice that, that nato is made. you know, it's almost like do or die. it's as ex, essential. but if it's a choice, they don't have to make this choice. they can say, well, you know, we should have a new security arrangement that's, that's what needs to be done. that's what russia offered before this all happened, but they can't do it as well. you put it in the context of do or die. i would put it in the context of do or suicide. because the, the united states via nato started the conflict with russia via ukraine. the united states is trying, it's best to start a fight with china. the tie one there, you know, there's an adage on the corner,

don't start and nothing won't be met. and they don't seem to understand that. so if you just stop trying to punch the, the adversary in the eye and sit down and have some conversations, maybe we can find them avenue to piece. but as gills got here and says, ask them why they're fighting for, and they'll never tell you the economics of war. it was a david, even though there's a lot of bluster, you know, when you think about what, what military capacity to be. don't we take uh, off the table on nucular capacity, the military's in, in, in nato. we're not that particularly strong, but they're not really well funded. turkey has the biggest army, they're not getting involved in this at all here. i mean, it's a lot of a bureaucrats in my mind that have really pushed jobs and you know, they're threatening the global war, but this, but they, they don't really have capacity other than

a new killer capacity. go ahead david. yeah, this is absolutely true. i mean, uh, the, uh, britain, france and germany each can per deploy up to one brigade in eastern europe. whereas, you know, the u. s. can provide more than that. of course, maybe a couple $100000.00 troops if we, if we were to search. but, you know, russia has, uh, 12 combined arms arbys. uh, they might have more now that's, that's how much they start out with. and a by triple the size of their, of their ground forces a double this, you know, they increase their military by 50 percent. they increase the military spending by, by a double in their, their now it's a cold war level. so a spinning in the sizes of their armed forces. so, you know, the us and nato are, are much weaker than it than have been presented in, in a, in a conventional or even just a conventional. and i had a cyber war. i think russian would be victoria is i wouldn't, you know, wouldn't think that they, you know, russian troops would drive to the,

to the looks channel. but certainly they could take that all the eastern europe without a whole lot of difficulty re we got one minute left here. how will history remember this guy con tab and washington this week? well, hopefully they'll get pre dealt below the headlines. hopefully, they'll know that there's adequate proof that russia does not intend to go beyond ukraine, so to speak of the accords in each sample. in march, april 2022 showed that quoting did stop and then it was double cross their case stopped before it took all right or ukraine. so why is it going to go to fall into the english channel? so seldom has there been a case where some, some serious as so been adequately debunk beforehand. for god's sake, russia did stop. it's not going to stop now. well, the gentlemen were brought out of time. nato doesn't want to stop. that's the problem. i want to take my guess in raleigh, washington in salt lake city. and of course,

i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our dc and next time remember, prospect tools, the the,

[000:00:00;00] the, the, now i want to hand it over to the president, ukraine, who has as much courage as he has determination bases. i'm a pro to prove no fact center. his name is that joe wyatt and fumbles on both sides and the wise guy i was using but at the to late this is the can wrapping up the name of the summit in washington. the blog meeting wraps up with yet another entire thing blond, i lied. these are the best approach. positives been on the situation and assessing that joe biden is still firing on all cylinders upset, present part,