terrorism extremism and many topics that concord is currently interested in, which is why the eastern lines is a little bit more favorable than that of the nato alliance. back home here in russia, this friday marks the final day of the breaks, parliamentary farm being held in saint petersburg. all the event is focused on international politics and relations as well as economic and cultural interactions . 400 delegates from across the. busy are in attendance with representatives from all the brakes member nations, as well as a number of representatives from the commonwealth of independent states, taking part in the event hosted by russia on the sidelines of the forum while we spoke with the accent speaker, all the tons, any and the national assembly should have thoughts on the hob countries relations with russia to me as we continue to work together as to silver in states and we respect each other so uh that respect has led the as to where we are now and in

future demo corporations, we have seen a head so states visiting in this country like some of the company does of the country have visited russia. and we believe that give a chance for the 2 countries to discuss which areas of interest from both of them so that they can, you know, corporate more than it was before. and what would you say are some of the most important spears right now? one of them was the area of energy, then we have on the culture we have uh, the aerial trade and uh, of course, infrastructure. that's so many areas, but the most prominent one use energy web access for not this i all you can join us again for most stories at the top of the i see you again the,

[000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross ok. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, outgoing nato general secretary stilton bird claims, a russian victory in the ukraine. complex is the biggest risk to the us led military blocks. this is all the more reason russia will achieve its goals. in this proxy war, the cross doing nato, i'm joined by my guest ray mcgovern in raleigh. he is a former c i a analyst in washington. we have wilmer liam. he is

a political scientists author and radio talk show hosts and in salt lake city, we cross to david pine. he is deputy director of national operations for the task force on national and homeland security. all right, gentlemen, cross talk roles. in fact, that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate re let me quote, the outgoing general general said try and make yourself and birth. you said a russian victory and ukraine would change the global system. well, i actually agree with him and i think it wouldn't be a bad idea. go ahead. right. well, yeah, i'm reminded that just 3 weeks ago who changed himself. talked about starting back and said that, you know, he dealt with them when he was president the driveway and at that point he showed no signs of dementia. this is the thing i remember about steinberg. most of all is his full paused grunt day before the d u parliament

on let's say of september 7 last year where he said, you know, the russians offered to send bill. yep. um, you know, if, if you stop trying to get your credit in there, so it was not in days so it was not okay. and they go all way. well, is that reset? oh, is in the store. they are very big. got the guy looked at kind of the bag, right? that it is you created a so this time the communicate is pretty much the same as last time. well, we all agree, what it seems, appropriately, conditions are right. but the whole thing has to do with russia needing reassurance, right? that ukraine will be neutral and nobody seems willing to even enter chain that notion. so maybe stall bird is showing signs now of incipient, so it may be mid term. dementia was a well, but we, it's hard to say with him as an individual that i can clearly say the, as an organization, it's 75. okay. it started a little early in the case of nato,

but there is certainly a demented point of view there. wilma and one of the interesting things it was, we had a pending unofficial thing. nato is preparing for a prototype for a protracted wars. i thought it was a defensive alliance. so i mean they, they, they constantly blur or what their mission is here. i mean, well, if you're defensive alliance, why do you have to expand? no one's explained that to me. well, it's a defense is supposed to be a defense of alliance. i think that in a nato is a north atlantic. they're trying to expand into the pacific. they talk about championing human rights, but they somehow decided to invade libya. they can't seem to understand and what their mission truly is. and also it's important understand that really their mission has their tenure, their mission has passed. and i think the leadership knows that the,

that the jig is up, they know that their time is over, but they're sitting in this vacuum talking to themselves and encouraging themselves so that they can reinforce their own insecurities. i mean, we see, for example, in the washington post, they say that they're trying to trump proof of nato. and in order to prevent trap from doing any damage to nato, or to prevent the elimination of nato itself. well, that right there tells you that they clearly understand that their time is wayne and final point. as they talk about, they have to have victory in ukraine. the premise that they're using is because if russia wins, they will take over europe take over the world and then move on to the moon. know, what that demonstrates is that may to itself will collapse. and i don't know how

that they can expand geographically, but they don't have any bullets. they're out of weaponry. so who are they going to fight and what are they gonna fight with? well, you know, david, the whole point. i mean, if you look at the origins of nato, which kind of makes sense, that was the cold war of the soviet union, had its own military block, the warsaw pact, and came into existence after the establishment of nato. it was an ideological struggle and of primarily for the soviet union, was to maintain its gains in the 2nd world war and to have security against a revenge as west germany like cetera, etc. but then the nato up to date doesn't think in terms of security at all. because the, because if you had a security architecture in europe, you wouldn't need nato because it wouldn't be a new architecture would include russia and be with russia that we have,

it's against russia without russia. that's nato's afraid of that because then it would risk its own existence. david. absolutely right, yeah. so nato was a lot of those bits of the lions up until the end of the soviet union, when the worst soft act was disbanded, the nato should fall. well, um, the biggest span shortly thereafter as well. 1994 when all russian troops were withdrawn from eastern europe. um at this point uh, you know, natal began to be in advance of the alliance with uh its uh, brutal bomb you know, uh, of serbia. yugoslavia and 1999 and uh, is this been mentioned discontinued and with uh, live use syria, um and to now in the parade. and uh, there's uh, you know, the only the only past due to security for nato never states is by having some kind of mutual security frame. or notice of the event i, uh, with the, with russia pres, there's really no other path. and so, but david, we,

we had that with the soviet union with the helsinki process. we had that, okay, the indivisibility of security. we had that, okay. and, and re, now the us as a noun, so they will deploy previously, band nucular capable missiles to germany. we're going backwards re, we have the i n f treaty. we're going backwards re yeah, peter, you know, i go back to the abm treaty, which gave a strategic stability for 30 years, 3 decades count them. i was instrumental in that treaty. i was so chief of the soviet our policy bridge and we told kissinger and x and the russians are really serious about those. they didn't want to spend themselves into oblivion and they were afraid. china was gonna steal a march on them. we provided the fraud her eyes the the trust

but verify. we provided the verification stuff and and that was in it in scott ritter as word sort of my my life's work noted. stays okay. now you have scott ritter is life's work. the neutral, the immediate range, nuclear forces treaty cop, put that last that 30 till years problem got out of that. and now as you say, there's a special arrangement where new medium range ballistic measures. i go to go with the german or just like the pershing two's way back in the eighty's per guide. say, we're just dried them in the eighty's. it surprised the hell out of me that we could agree with the rushes to destroy a whole class of nuclear missile, but we did it. now we're back to square one or even worse. so i have some words to say about the f sixteens as well, but perhaps go ahead and went ahead and go, go ahead, go ahead, right, go ahead as well. you know, i was thinking back to when f sixteens or got came to the for a bite in was in japan,

a barcode fell after losing hundreds to thousands of ukrainian troops. right. as a wind screen goes up to tokyo to the g. 7 were bite and is, is that where you last? bite in turn? so sullivan says what we're gonna do, i'm the, how about, yeah, let's go back to the exchange. and that's when buttons and now it says that he's going to let our allies go metric state. now that's the kind of decision making. i mean, did they check with the pedagogy, the checklist? no, no, no. that's we need those that run away. now what's gonna happen when the f 16 is good, shut down. yep. and the, the other stuff puter is out. are the same people there as a well, mr. president? yeah, we have this a low you blow your mind. you look player weapon. so maybe that's the only day we have now. well, but he really likes raise, you know, the to, i'll tell it says a, well, i'm right. i mean, the, the only, the only way forward for nato visa, the ukraine, is escalation. and what's really, what's at stake,

the very existence of ukraine, and as, as ray is pointed out, they entering into the realm of thinking about a new killer war. i mean, this is going into the realm of insanity. go ahead and watch it as it is already in the realm of insanity in what re points out very, very clearly is there is no strategy here. there is when you just say we were losing, what do we do now? oh, let's give them f sixteens. there's what is the desired outcome and results and if the desired outcome end result is the, the do dissolving the russian federation. um, that's just not going but right, but we all know that's the goal. we all know that that's, that's just and i want to walk to the main, but i don't think that that's going to happen anytime soon. and what they're

willing to do is risk nuclear annihilation in pursuit of a fantasy. so that the military industrial complex or the making met as re, likes to refer to it can generate more revenue now. okay, david, that's a good point in lieu of a strategy which just keep enriching the arms producers. okay. inside the beltway, so they can buy another house in the hamptons. go ahead. yeah, i mean, the strategy a big guy is for the us to maintain its uh, its iron grip on, on data, which is really just uh, you know, it's part of the americas liberal empire and consist of uh, imperial dependencies of united states. what we need to do here in the us is to transform us back to republic from empire and, and i think president trump is moving, you know, forward in that direction. with the plan to restructure nato. hold us troops out of

the eastern europe. perhaps even a hand over the david we're getting, we're approaching the bank here, but it took trumpets elected on that platform. don't you think they'll in peach in before and all your ration? well, it depends on whether they're, it's a, you know, it's a democrat control house. i mean, if he wins, we're going to, you know, republicans will keep the house. so i don't. okay, well i, i take, i was, i'm being kind of facetious. but i think that they would have someone, lindsey graham would lead, read me the charge, right gentlemen, i have to jump in here. we're going to go to a hard break, and now it's about hard breaks. we'll continue our discussion on nato at 75 years old. stay with

the the car. i'm rick sanchez. and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show a search like why watch something that's so different by little opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do the have the state department c i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead, change and whatever you do. don't watch my show state main street because i'm probably going to make you comfortable. my show is called stretching time. but again,

we don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way and say welcome back across the dock were all things are considered on peter level to remind you, we're discussing nato at 75 years old. the ok, let's go back to re, obviously, nato is not in the mood. maybe it's incapable of compromise, even if in its own best interest, it's unwilling to compromise. but, you know, is there celebrating in washington? what comes to mind for me or broken promises and let me enumerate here, not one step in east we met, that's 1st one, ukrainian neutrality, another lie, indivisibility of security. i've already mentioned that on this program here. and of course we all remember the mens process here. so um even if there were miraculously a piece feler, why would the russians believe anything coming out of the current administration, particularly considering who is in the, in the oval office,

right. as well as the russian were new for me. uh the lot and this was this most certainly. okay. incapable of reaching an agreement. okay. that's what they use now for the us. and then in addition to the 3 you mentioned, i would simply say that not many people know that biden told to chain directly in person on the telephone, on the 30th of december. yes, that's the us. we're not deployed offensive strike muscles in ukraine. 3 weeks later geneva loved it off approach blinker nation. what about that? we're talking about that now. i'm like, yeah, that's that. but forget about that. we have the right to put the opposites or stripe processing. you agree? it maybe we're talking about how many would put it in, but so there was another one. and last but not least, of course, most as there's a lot of the agreement that was made out there in the,

in the east stumble. in march april of 2022, where the initials were on those agreements and bodies. johnson came in the u. k. and so now and no agreement where none of these damn russians, we're gonna bite on bite on and we'll give you everything you need to prevent. oh wow. so then, so you made a very poor choice app, but now we see the results of all that. well, i mean i'm, but i'm sure his bank account is a benefit enormously and the people around him. i mean, he's not even the legal president. okay. he's head of the cube regime. well, and what are the interesting things that i've been watching over the years? is you know, we, even at this summit and watching them, they're talking about expansion. okay. um uh it continuing to do so in the balkans a and then going into central asia. i, if i'm not mistaken, an official from armenia was invited to the, to the conference so,

but it seems to me that ne toes ambitions are not just as we see it right now. but they want to replace the united nations. we have, there's a rules based order. they have their own sense of, of legality is against international law. it's against international institutions. and this is, this is kind of nato's a, it's a vehicle for the united states maintain, had gemini, go ahead and washington. and as we know with the rise of the shanghai cooperation organization and the operative word, there is cooperation with the rise of bricks with the rise of the organization of the set health states. the time for this imperialist expansion has ended the folks at nato. they just haven't gotten the memo yet. and because now the ship nato is a militaristic organization. and when you look at the s e o, when you look at bricks, when you look at the shanghai, when you look at the health states,

they are operating collectively from an economic perspective. and this takes me quickly back to what i'm one of my favorite films, the godfather, when uh, when, when virgil, the church, the lots on says and tom, he says look, i don't like violence, i'm a business man. blood is expensive. and the united states wants to and especially things to lindsey graham spread all the ukrainian blood he can get his hands on while these other countries are moving beyond that, starting their own currencies so that they can engage in trade. which leads to development. yeah, uh and development and gender security as well. david, you know, also kind of parting shot from the nato conferences targeting china. be, and it's claims of dual use technology. it's selling to the russians. they've never been really clear about that. but, you know, a china is enabling russian ukraine,

but it's in nato. it enabling other more as well. and you crazy, they never seem to get the balance. they are go ahead. david, a stream we have a hypocritical for the us and nato to argue that china is not allowed to aid aid to russia militarily or strategically. well, you know, the us is providing a long range missiles with which she hits uh, russian targets deep inside rush and even, uh, you know, potentially missile the best rate or so to take out the, you know, chuck, so for us is a nuclear command control system so yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's fine, but uh, we establish kind of a, a revised international order which reflects your national orders. it currently exists with russia. china, us is a, is the only degree superpowers been without this empire of it. the u. s. is established in europe, it re, you know,

the ins and outs of government and decision making. who is making this nato policy in washington who is making ukraine policy in washington. and who's making russia policy in washington? a spell on solid name sullivan, and the name lincoln. and so a supporting actor or austin and victoria nolan, the hiding in the shadows for the ladies from still in the worst wing there. and they're in control. and you know, maybe the best evidence of that is that on the way out of that is just this administrator is not in the way out. and they decided that they'll pick china now is the bidding why as the enable or as they say a and as the you know, as the blame for all this stuff. and if you look at china and they've already, as david said, call it out as hypocritical. but if you also look very closely at how the world is

divided now, and india just having come from a hot summer with food chain. and you're looked at the nato folks. so did anyone notice anything this? think about all those nato poke, so 32 of them. they're all white. they're all like the rest of us. ok. they're all white right? well, in and many of them are from countries where the great colonial powers. same thing that's exactly right. so the whole world sees that and how we have isolated russia . gimme a break. we have isolated ourselves. and that's is very clear by moti shows that the mosque was very clear by, by this last gash. now as far as data is concerned, and nothing is going to happen in ukraine until after november, when in the us election it takes place. but then data, it's got a really worry about, it's not in jeopardy and whether it's so has any useful usefulness at all? it might be quite well more. i mean, this is the thing, this is

a craving choice that they, that nato is made. you know, it's almost like do or die. it's a s x a central, but it's a choice. they don't have to make this choice. they can say, well, you know, we should have a new security arrangement that's, that's what needs to be done. that's what russia offered before this all happened, but they can't do it as well. you put it in the context of do or die. i would put it in the context of do or suicide. because the, the united states via nato started the conflict with russia via ukraine. the united states is trying, it's best to start a fight with china. the tie one there, you know, there's an adage on the corner, don't start and that won't be that. and they don't seem to understand that. so if you just stop trying to punch the, the adversary in the eye and sit down and have some conversations,

maybe we can find them avenue to piece. but as gills got here and says, ask them why they're fighting for, and they'll never tell you the economics of war. it was a david, even though there's a lot of bluster, you know, when you think about what, what military capacity to be. don't we take uh, off the table on nuclear capacity, the military's in, in, in nato. we're not that particularly strong, but they're not really well funded. turkey has the biggest army, they're not getting involved in this at all here. i mean, it's a lot of a bureaucrats in my mind that have really pushed jobs and you know, they're threatening the global war, but this, but they, they don't really have capacity other than a new killer capacity. go ahead david. yeah, that's absolutely true. i mean, uh, the britain, france, and germany each can per deploy up to one brigade in eastern europe. whereas, you know, the u. s. can provide more than that. of course, maybe

a couple $100000.00 troops if we, if we were to search. but in a rush it has uh, 12 combined arms arbys. uh they might have more than that's, that's how much they start out with. and 8 by triple the size of their, of their ground forces a double this, you know, they increase their military by 50 percent. they increase the military spending. and bye bye, a double in there. there now it's a cold war level. so a spinning it in the sizes of their armed forces. so you know, us in nato or are much weaker than it than have been presented in, in a, in a conventional or even just a conventional and a and a cyber war. i think russian would be victoria is i wouldn't, you know, wouldn't think that they, you know, reference troops would drive to the, to the looks general. but the, certainly they could take that all of eastern europe without a whole lot of difficulty. right. we got one minute left here. how will history remember this call con fabbing in washington this week as well? hopefully that'll get rid of the below the headlines. hopefully,

they'll know that there's adequate proof. that rusher does not intend to go beyond ukraine, so to speak. the accords in each stumble in march, april 2022 showed that voting did stop and then it was double crossed. our case stopped before it took all right or ukraine. so why is it going to go to fall into the english channel? so seldom has there been a case where some, some serious, so been adequately debunk beforehand. for god's sake rusher did stop. it's not going to stop now. well, the settlement with right out of time nato doesn't want to stop. that's the problem . i want to take my guess in raleigh, washington in, in salt lake city. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our dc. you next time, remember prospect, the,

[000:00:00;00] the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power, tired vision with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse who really wants a better wills. and is it just as a chosen few. fractured images presented to this, but can you see through their illusion going underground can

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