to use that uh, notion for data on the hello and welcome to cross ok. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, outgoing nato genuine secretary stilton bird claims, a russian victory in the ukraine. conflict is the biggest risk to the us led military blocks. this is all the more reason russia will achieve its goals in this proxy war, the crossing nato. i'm joined by my guess, ray mcgovern in raleigh. he is

a former c. i a analyst in washington. we have wilmer liam. he is a political scientist, author and radio talk show host and in salt lake city we cross to david pine. he is deputy director of national operations for the task force on national and homeland security. all right, gentlemen, cross talk rules. in fact, that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate re let me quote, the outgoing general general said try and make yourself number of you said a russian victory and ukraine would change the global system. well, i actually agree with him and i think it wouldn't be a bad idea. go ahead. right. well, yeah, i'm reminded that just 3 weeks ago who changed himself. talked about starting back and said that, you know, he dealt with them when he was part of the driveway and at that point he showed no signs of dementia. this is the thing i remember about steinberg. most of all is his fold paused grunt day before the d u parliament

on let's say of september 7 last year where he said, you know, the russians. so offered us an deal. yep. um, you know, if, if you stop trying to get your credit in there, so it was not in days, so it was no boot grand. they go all way. well is a reset. oh is, and the store, they invaded it got the guy looked the kind of the bag, right? that it is you create a day. so this time the communicate is pretty much the same as last time when we all agree where that seems appropriately conditions are right. but the whole thing has to do with russia needing reassurance, right? that ukraine will be neutral and nobody seems willing to even enter chain that notion. so maybe salt bird is showing signs now of incipient, so it may be mid term dementia. what the, the, well, what we, it's hard to say with him is an individual that i can clearly say the,

as an organization. it's 75. ok. it started a little early in the case of nato, but there is certainly a demented point of view there. wilma, one of the interesting things is we had a pending unofficial saying, nato i used preparing for a prototype for a protracted wars. i thought it was a defensive alliance. so i mean it, they think they constantly blur or what their mission is here. i mean, well, if you're defensive alliance, why do you have to expand? no one's explained that to me. well, it's a defense is supposed to be a defense of alliance. i think the in a, in nato is a north atlantic. they're trying to expand into the pacific. they talk about championing human rights, but they somehow decided to invade libya. they can't seem to understand and what their mission truly is. and also it's important understand that really, their mission has their tenure, their mission has passed and i think the leadership knows that the,

that the jig is up. they know that their time is over, but they're sitting in this vacuum talking to themselves and encouraging themselves . so that they can reinforce their own insecurities. i mean we see for example in the washington post, they say that they are trying to trump proof of nato. and in order to prevent trap from doing any damage to nato, or to prevent the elimination of nato itself. well, that right there tells you that they clearly understand that their time is wayne and final point. as they talk about, they have to have victory in ukraine. the premise that they're using is because if russia, when they will take over europe, take over the world and then move on to the mon. no. what that demonstrates is that

may to itself will collapse, and i don't know how that they can expand geographically, but they don't have any bullets because they're out of weaponry. so who are they going to fight and what are they gonna fight with? well, you know, david, the whole point, i mean, if you look at the origins of nato, which kind of makes sense, that was the cold war of the soviet union, had its own military block, the warsaw pact, and came into existence after the establishment of nato. it was an ideological struggle and of primarily for the soviet union was to maintain its gains and the 2nd world war and to have security against a revenge as west germany like cetera, etc. but then the natal up to date doesn't think in terms of security at all. because because if you had a security architecture in europe, you wouldn't need nato because it wouldn't be a new architecture would include russia. and they were with russia that we have,

it's against russia without russia. that's nato is afraid of that, because then it would risk its own existence. david, the absolutely right, yeah. so nato was a lot of those bits of alliance. up until the end of the soviet union, when the worst soft pack was disbanded, the nato should have thought well of the biggest span shortly thereafter as well. 1994, when all russian troops were withdrawn from eastern europe. um, at this point uh, you know, natal began to be in advance of alliance with uh its uh, brutal bombing of uh, of serbia of yugoslavia and 1999. and uh, is this been mentioned, its continued in with, uh, libya, syria, um and now it can be praying. and uh, there's uh, you know, the only the only path to choose security for nato never states is by having some kind of mutual security frame or a notice of the event i with the, with russia, right, as there's really no other path. and so, but david, we,

we had that with the soviet union with the helsinki process. we had that, okay, the indivisibility of security. we had that, okay. and, and re now the us as a noun, so they will deploy previously band, new killer capable missiles to germany. we're going backwards re, we had the i n f treaty. we're going backwards. right? yeah, peter, you know, i go back to the abm treaty which gave a strategic stability for 30 years, 3 decades. thompson. i was instrumental in that treaty. i was so chief of the soviet our policy bridge and we told kissinger and next and that the russians are really serious about those. they didn't want to spend themselves into oblivion and they were afraid of trying. it was going to steal a march on them. we provided the a for all of her i the the trust but verify. we provided the

verification stuff and and that was an ad in scott ritter as squared sort of my my life's work. i've noticed days. okay, now you have scott ritter is life square. the neutral, the immediate range, nuclear forces create a cup, put that last that 30 till years from get out of that. and now as you say, there's a special arrangement where new medium range, ballistic measures are good to go with the german or just like the pershing two's way back in the eighty's per guide. say we're just dried them in the eighty's. it surprised the hell out of me that we could agree with the rush just to destroy a whole class of nuclear missile, but we did it. now we're back to square one or even worse. so i have some words to say about the f sixteens as well, but perhaps go ahead and went ahead and go ahead, go ahead, right, go ahead as well. you know, i was thinking back to when f sixteens or got came to the for

a bite in was in japan, a barcode fell after losing hundreds to thousands of ukrainian troops. right. i zalinski goes off to tokyo to the g. 7 were bite and as is that were your last fight in turn, so sullivan says what we're gonna do, i'm the how about? yeah, let's give eps exchange and that's when buttons in house here. so he's gonna let our allies give metric state. now that's the kind of decision making, i mean, did they check with the pedagogy to the checklist, but no, no, no, that's, we need those up right away. now what's gonna happen when the f 16 is good, shut down. yep. and the, the other stuff puter is out all these same people. there's a well missed the present. yeah, we have this a low you blow your mind to do player weapon. so maybe that's the only day we have now. well, it's a really nice thing to, i'll tell it to it so well, i'm ready that i mean, the, the only, the only way forward for nato visa, the ukraine, is escalation. and what's really, what's at stake,

the very existence of ukraine, and as, as ray is pointed out, they entering into the realm of thinking about a new killer war. i mean, this is going into the realm of insanity. go ahead and watch it as it is already in the realm of insanity in what re points out very, very clearly is there is no strategy here. there is when you just say we were losing, what do we do now? oh, let's give a map. 16th. there's what is the desired outcome and results and if the desired outcome end result is the, the do dissolving the russian federation. that's just not going but right, but we all know that's the goal. we all know that that's, that's just and i want to walk to the moon, but i don't think that that's going to happen anytime soon. and what they're

willing to do is risk nuclear annihilation in pursuit of a fantasy. so that the military industrial complex or the mickey met as re, likes to refer to it can generate more revenue. yeah. ok, david, that's a good point in lieu of his strategy, let's just keep enriching the arms producers. okay. inside the beltway, so they can buy another house in the hamptons, go ahead or yeah, i mean, the strategy, a big guy is for us to maintain its, uh, its iron grip on, on data, which is really just uh, you know, as part of the americas liberal empire and consists of a imperial dependencies of united states. what we need to do here in the us is to transform us back to republic from empire and, and i think president trump is moving uh, you know, forward in that direction with a plan to restructure nato. hold us troops out of the eastern europe. perhaps even

a hand over the david we're getting, we're approaching the bank here. a bit of tough trump is elected on that platform. don't you think they'll in peach in before and all your ration? well, it depends on whether there's, it's a, it's a democrat control house. i mean, if he wins, uh, we're gonna, you know, republicans will keep it out. so i don't. okay, well i, i take, i was, i'm being kind of facetious, but i think that they would have someone, lindsey graham would lead, read me the charge, right gentlemen, i have to jump in here. we're going to go to a hard break and now it's about hard break. we'll continue our discussion on nato at 75 years old. stay with the look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings accept. we're such orders at conflict with the 1st law. show your mind, anticipation. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence. the point

obviously is to place a trust rather than to the area. i mean, with artificial intelligence, we have somebody in the team in the robot most protects his phone existence with alexis, the, the, the rest of the day of school for the study question like your should be, what you're dividing is i saw on some of the by the article i stood for just on the chest. this is, i cannot be honest with you. if it is

the demo that you're going to be at the most of the way, the great desk fluff days. come by the way. this is destiny. i see the desk, they book that's the way you. what can you go to new took a look at a latham village. child study question, the stuff. your boss i city. good. the welcome. next across stock were all things are considered. i'm peter level to remind you, we're discussing nato at 75 years old. the

ok, let's go back to re, obviously, nato is not in the mood. maybe it's incapable of compromise, even if in its own best interest, it's unwilling to compromise. but you know, as they're celebrating in washington, what comes to mind for me or broken promises? let me enumerate here, not one step in east we met, but that's for us, one ukrainian neutrality, another lie, indivisibility of security. i've already mentioned that on this program here. and of course we all remember the mens process here. so, um, even if there were miraculously a piece feler, why would the russians believe anything coming out of the current administration, particularly considering who is in the more in the oval office? right. those are russian words, new for me. uh, those are the initials this most lovely, okay?

incapable of reaching an agreement. okay, that's what they use now for the us. and in addition to the 3 you mentioned, i would simply say that not many people know the biden told to change directly in person on the telephone, on the 30th of december. yes, that's the us for not deploy often. so stripe muscles and ukraine, 3 weeks later, geneva loved rough approach, blank, good nature. what about that? we're talking about that now. i'm like, yeah, that's that. but forget about that. we have the right to put the opposite type process and you agree. maybe we're talking about how many were put in, but so there was another one. and last but not least, of course, was the, there's a lot of the agreement that was made out there in uh, in an east stumble uh, in march, april of 2022, where the initials were on those agreements and bodies. johnson came in there. okay

. and so now and no agreement when any of these damn russians, we're gonna bite on bite on and we'll give you everything i need to provide. yeah, well, it's all in. so you made a very poor choice app, but now we see the results of all as well. i mean, i'm, but i'm sure his bank account has a benefit enormously and the people around him. i mean, he's not even the legal president. okay. he's head of the care regime well and what are the interesting things that i've been watching over the years is you know, we even at this summit and watch and then they're talking about expansion. okay. i it continuing to do so in the balkans a and then going into central asia. i if i'm not mistaken, an official from armenia was invited to the to the conference so. but it seems to me that ne toes ambitions are not just as we see it right now, but they want to replace the united nations. we have, there's

a rules based order. they have their own sense of, of legality is against international law. it's against international institutions, and this is, this is kind of nato's a. it's a vehicle for the united states maintain, had gemini, go ahead and washington. and as we know with the rise of the shanghai cooperation organization and the operative word, there is cooperation with the rise of bricks with the rise of the organization of the set health states. the time for this imperialist expansion has ended the folks at nato. they just haven't gotten the memo yet. and because now the ship nato is a militaristic organization. and when you look at the s e o, when you look at bricks, when you look at the shanghai, when you look at the health states, they are operating collectively from an economic perspective. and this takes me quickly back to what i'm one of my favorite films, the godfather, when uh, when,

when virgil, the turks and lots of says and tom, he says look, i don't like violence, i'm a business man. blood is expensive. and the united states wants to and especially things to lindsey graham spread all the ukrainian blood he can get his hands on while these other countries are moving beyond that, starting their own currencies so that they can engage in trade. which leads to development. yeah, uh and development and gender security as well. david, you know, also kind of parting shot from the nato conferences targeting china. be, and it's claims of dual use technology. it's selling to the russians. they've never been really clear about that. but, you know, a china is enabling russian ukraine, but it's in nato. it enabling other more as well. and you crazy, they never seem to get the balance. they are go ahead david. yeah,

it's extremely hypocritical for the us and data to argue that china is not allowed to aid aid to russia militarily or strategically. well, uh, you know, the us is providing a long range missiles with which she hits the russian targets deep inside rush and even, you know, potentially missile defense radar. so to take out the, you know, chuck, so for us is a nuclear command control system. so uh, yeah it's, it's a, it's time that we establish kind of a, a revised internet floor which reflects your national orders. it currently exists with russia. china us is a, is the only nuclear super bowers been without this empire of the u. s. is established in europe, it re, you know, the ins and outs of government and decision making. who is making this a nato policy in washington who is making ukraine policy in washington,

who's making russian policy in washington. the seller selling name sullivan. i don't know the name blinking, and so a supporting actor or austin and victoria nolan, the hiding in the shadows for the ladies from still in the worst wing there. and they're in control. and you know, maybe the best evidence of that is that on the way out of that is just this should notice treasures on the way out. and they decide that they'll pick china now is the bit know why as the enable or as they say a and as the you know, as the blame for all this stuff. and if you look at china and they've already, as david said, call it out as hypocritical. but if you also look very closely at how the world is divided now, and india just having come from a hot summer with food chain. and you looked at the nato folks,

so did anyone notice anything this? think about all those nato poke, so 32 of them. they're all white. they're all like the rest of us. ok. they're all white right? well, in and many of them are from countries that were the great colonial powers. same thing that's exactly right. so the whole world sees that and how we have isolated russia and give me a break with isolated ourselves. and that's this very clear by moti shows that the mosque was very clear by, by this last gash. now, as far as data is concerned, and nothing is going to happen in ukraine until after november, when in the us election it takes place. but then nato's got a really worry about. it's not in jeopardy, and whether it's so has any useful usefulness at all? it might be quite well more. i mean that this is the thing, this is a craven choice that they, that nato is made. you know, it's almost like do or die. it's as ex, essential. but if it's a choice,

they don't have to make this choice. they can say, well, you know, we should have a new security arrangement that's, that's what needs to be done. that's what russia offered before this all happened, but they can't do it as well. you put it in the context of do or die. i would put it in the context of do or suicide. because the, the united states via nato started the conflict with russia via ukraine. the united states is trying, it's best to start a fight with china. the tie one there, you know, there is an adage on the corner, don't start, nothing won't be that. and they don't seem to understand that. so if you just stop trying to punch the the, the adversary and the i can sit down and have some conversations. maybe we can find them avenue to peace. but as gil scott heron says, ask them why they're fighting for, and they'll never tell you the economics of war. it was a david,

even though there's a lot of bluster, you know, when you think about what, what the military capacity to be. don't we take uh, off the table on nuclear capacity, the military's in, in, in nato. we're not that particularly strong, but they're not really well funded. turkey has the biggest army, they're not getting involved in this at all here. i mean, it's a lot of a bureaucrats in my mind that have really plus jobs and you know, they're threatening the global war, but this, but they, they don't really have capacity other than a new killer capacity. go ahead david. yeah, that's absolutely true. i mean, uh, the britain, france, and germany each can per deploy up to one brigade in eastern europe. whereas, you know, the u. s. can provide more than that. of course, maybe a couple $100000.00 troops if we, if we were to search. but in a rush it has uh, 12 combined arms arbys. uh they might have more now that's,

that's how much they start out with. and a by triple the size of their, of their ground forces double this. you know, they increase their military by 50 percent. they increase the military spending, bye bye, a double in there. there now it's a cold war level. so a spinning in the sizes of their armed forces. so, you know, us in nato or are much weaker than it than have been presented in, in a, in a conventional or even just the conventional. and i had a cyber war. i think russian would be victorious. i wouldn't, you know, wouldn't think that they, you know, reference troops would drive to the, to the channel, but certainly they could take all of eastern europe without a whole lot of difficulty where we got one minute left here. how will history remember this call con fabbing? in washington this week. well hopefully they'll get paid up below the headlines. hopefully they'll know that there's adequate proof that rusher does not intend to go beyond ukraine, so to speak, the accords in each stumble in march,

april 2022 showed that voting did stop and that it was double cross their case stopped before it took on or ukraine, so why is it going to go to poland? does english channel? so seldom has there been a case where some, some serious as so been adequately debunk beforehand. for god say rush, i did stop. it's not going to stop now. well, the problem is the domain we have right out of time nato doesn't want to stop. that's the problem. i want to take my guess in raleigh, washington in salt lake city. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r d. so you next time, remember, cross central's, the, [000:00:00;00]

the release of russia in states never as tight as i'm one of the most sense community, vest, ingles, all sense and up the speed . what else? suppose question about this. even though we will fan in the european union the kremlin mission, the state on the russians per day and split the r t spoke neck, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the payment services for the question, did you say they requested the the

the, the main subject to the when it comes to getting more when to send donations back to just to counter russian. and i think of these innovations and these are very valid avail, the facts. and they try to use that a notion for data on the most citizens of most countries or patriotic whether that's misguided or not. we all want to believe in our governments, our leaders and their policies. and when we don't, we all want in value, the right to protest to petition or elected officials for change to vote in free and fair elections and to alter policies with which we disagree. we're going to tell you

a story today that is going to make you angry. we're going to tell you the story of a man who became an attorney and a middle east scholars, a man who believes in the american constitution and the rule of law. a man who wanted to do the right thing by working to ensure that every body has the same rights and protections as everybody else. and then it all fell apart. i'm john kerry onto welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 today i want to tell you the story of tim john summerland. he was a one time remote defense attorney for several of the most notorious accused terrace in modern american history. khalid shaikh mohammed, the alleged mastermind of the september 11th attacks. major needle has been a member of the us military who self radicalized launched a terrorist attack at the us military base at fort hood texas,

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