and against gun violence and police brutality in the country. he co founded and the anti police violence organization called hands up united and became involved in politics describing himself on social media as a business man, revolutionary activist, unapologetically black, african in america, fighter and leader. he also became a vocal critic of the black lives matter movement because it took millions of dollars in donations from 1000000000 air george soros. and it hijacked the movement in ferguson. as you might suspect, seals quickly came to the attention of the f. b, i which has had its own long and bloody history with black activists in america. yes, b, i surveilled him, investigated him and collected intelligence on him. but to what end? on the night of september 6th, 2016. darren seals was found dead in a burning car in a suburb north of st. louis. he had been shot and placed in the car before it was

set on fire. that murder has never been solved. we were very happy to be joined by filmmaker journalist author and pod cast or reign of a shell ski and by former missouri state senator maria chappelle. now they're the creators of a new pod cast series called after the uprising. the murder of darren seals. rain. maria, thank you so much for being with us. i know this is going to be a fascinating conversation. thank you. thanks john. nice to see you again for the senior re. let's start with you. you and i have known each other for a long time, and i know that you have a nose for a story, whether it's about the c i a and the so called war on terror, or the saudi government's involvement in the 911 attacks. we've had many conversations about these issues. this one though, the murder of darren seals fascinates me. so let's start at the beginning. a cop kills mike brown. the uprising begins in ferguson after

a few days of chaos. active as leaders and merge. and one of them is darren seals take it from there. all right, so students deals uh makes a lot of enemies. um, you know, he was, uh, this may be counterintuitive to a lot of people. uh, but he was an outspoken critic of black lives matter. because in ferguson, they considered their movement to be something different. and something that uh, at least he felt was being co opted by the kind of the broader national movement that we know as black lives matter. so he had enemies who were active this year and enemies who were members of the gangs that he had once dealt throughout for uh, you know, he had, he had a lot of it. he had enemies, obviously, among the police. and perhaps the months the federal cops that he had in protesting to reform. and so it cuts in 2016 and he's shot dead in a burning jeep. and the question becomes, which of these many enemies is the one who, who chose to do him in?

and that's where we maria and i began to and a half years ago as we started looking at trying to run down. if we could figure out who had in fact murder, maria, you found yourself thrust into the very center of this historic event that was ferguson. you were representing the 14th district in the missouri state senate, which includes ferguson and you became an important voice against a police violence. tell us about those days in ferguson at the very start of the uprising. and tell us a little bit about the emergence of darren seals as the voice of ferguson's african american community. from the beginning there was no script. there were people who are coming together because they felt the injury of a young black man laying on the streets for 4 hours. and so all of us no matter what our backgrounds were. we were all standing there stunned and disbelief. and so the protest didn't start actually until a few days after,

but everyone was standing around gathering together people from multiple gangs, people from the underground music world. we were just all gathering together. and you could see the pain and people's faces at that time. it had been the 1st time i held a row man crying in fact, and so darren was among those people who were gathering amongst the many groups of people. and um, you know, we, we were trying to get answers. and at the same time, at the very beginning, we also had a lot of police presence and it was threatening. and i remember the 1st day of tear gassing, which was on the 1st and it was the monday after it was the 11th. and this type of violence our community has never experienced. and so that's really when the protest started. and when you start hearing individual words, in fact,

the 1st day of tear gassing as you will hear, reflected in the pod cast. do you hear about still getting shot? well, i was there that night and it was right off of west of west wing estates i believe . and darren references, a person by the name of spook. i didn't know the person's name. i just heard that a woman was shot in the eye and that's all we knew. so darren, as you will hear in this pod cast, starts wanting to get the stories out of what is happening on the streets and how to find resolve. when it comes to police brutality re, as maria just noted, darren seals emerged relatively quickly as a leader in ferguson. he was a serious person. he was quoted on cnn. he was quoted in the washington post. he was giving interviews to the international media. but because he was a serious person, he came to the attention of the f,

b i. and we know now thanks to the freedom of information act that the f b i was trailing him in fact the f b. i described him as quote, a revolutionary who has a spouse somewhat militant rhetoric and has access to weapons and quote, f b. i has a well documented history of harassing activists and especially black activists. how much of a problem was this for darren seals and what was it that the f b i thought it could learn about him? well, this remains an open question by the end of our 10. so we do have a pretty concrete idea as to what the purpose of that operation was, but it's open in march of 2016 and he's murdered in september of 2016. so just taking that as a back it's pretty stunning. when you realize this is kara, is matic famous black active is murdered. and during the file,

6 months of his life, the federal government is surveilling him. and yeah, and it's natural to ask, what were they up to? what did they, they hope to to get to and it wasn't just them, but they let a fusion team that included the st. louis county and city police and mike, german from the running center consulted on looking at this heavily redacted document. as a former f b i agent and an i'm sure you're well aware of him. he's got an illustrious reputation and you know, he was looking at uh the specifics of a police pull over and felt that there was an obvious, missing an expedition going on to try to find a gun in his vehicle because darren was, you know, had been convicted of a felony and therefore couldn't have it. so it seems like they were trying to turn the screws on him and one form or another. they were not being terribly subtle. when you know that they seem to be almost the opposite. they seem to be sending

a signal that darren's the people around there and would know that he was either cooperating or that they wanted him to be cooperating. and we think that serve to endangered animals, maria, when darren was killed. and we'll get more into that in a, in a minute, an f b i agent allegedly said, quote, a conspiracy theory is already forming that seals was killed by the police because of his black lives matter affiliations and quote, that is ridiculous, of course, seals was an opponent of black lives matter, but the statement seems odd to me, it seems like a deflection. and i'd like to get your thoughts on that as well as on the statement that i mentioned a moment ago that the f b, i believe seals was, quote, a revolutionary with access to weapons. in all seriousness, everybody in america has access to weapons. so what do you think we should make of all that? well, if you listen to the pub cash, you'll find that a lot of people were trying to deflect. and or some people who were unsure of which

entity was responsible for darren staff. so in some sense, you know, it, we believe i personally believe that i, there were some who were in the law enforcement who wanted daring to, to quite down. in fact, the loudest voices, they always wanted us to quiet down. and darren was one of the. busy boys who was for rushes in his speech and he was militant in his speech and the status quell, whether it be the political establishment or law enforcement, want it to shut that down. so there is irony in, in all of this, but i would also say there's deflection from all sides. when you listen to this, and there are some stories that, that we don't discuss that we can discuss later on. that is not reflected in the pod cast in terms of this deflection,

but i think we were confused and there were some who were just really wanting to know from which corner of the earth did this threat come from. and that's what our 2 year journey was all about, is figuring it out and getting through the weeds and, and all of the smoke as the young people say to thank you maria, and re we're going to take a short break. and when we come back we're going to continue our conversation with filmmaker journalist, author, and podcast to reading over chelsea and former state senator maria ship. hell and the dog about the murder of darren seals. the 2 we have a lot more coming up. 2 2 2 the what is part of the, the employee would posted isn't the

defense you of us and bidding the word, or is it something deeper, more complex might be present the next stop without teachers, desktop product as the now you need your research typically from here sneered to nancy, you know, what kim's in the book is that the nurses should be very did you want me to showcase in genes? nathaniel? so he's going to the boys at the boys. the

probably the most name that will be put on my trip to florida doesn't want that extra them for the that the one with the wonderful little of so for that's not the only thing that is on some ground squared ma'am on . that's why little do you much really watch the other words you darling, which isn't going to do with me as well when i go and still able to start using the thumbs here it is still bothering you. but when you're, when you push the issue of the unbox remodeled and move up is to move, it'll easy lives,

mysterious. and when you go into the deal is make up the bell. i don't yeah, post the fun. yes, it was so, but i use the yeah. i'm just thinking and then use ways that i mean 58 and i maybe cause it please go ahead and always communicate that. maybe we can go up national minds, but it just those we have the the of such alters mojitos, d'angelo of los angeles. his face, but i don't think he will definitely see those funds will really tell me what your move is if you want to spend these these pretty you particularly see i'm saying is up with them you've got thrown in. this is the one and then the other be listing the guns thing is um list of worst of movies is the 9 is not old on the side of me is one of them is up and down for the valley. her mother's storage, the model girl that i got you,

no problem seeing it. i'm out of the things, arguments us out in the drive i showed my brother through he was sudden to help people for a lo so now i never look at searches as being the same. well, i guess on my list, that's the outcome of chicago police. it'd be gang chicago is like, you get a photo of the police, you lose the, there's another crap thing. another, this could have been a doctor, or nurse could have been the next president. we can't keep losing people out here. the what the back from the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry echo. we're speaking with renown. filmmaker, journalist, author and podcast to reign of a shell ski and was former missouri state senator maria chappelle and the dog about

the murder of active as darren seals. welcome back to both of you. thank you. a ray i want to talk about the pod cast you've just completed the pod cast called after the uprising the murder of darren seals. just as darren seals was hitting his stride, finding his voice, he was found dead. and it wasn't just that he was found dead. he was murdered, he was shocked, and then placed in a car and then the car was set on fire. tell us about the investigation into his murder. what does the public learn? as well as interesting, we now know what the police did or didn't do, and we know the extent of their investigation because we only about 6 weeks ago, we had an episode attend the final episode of the season, cut ready to go. and there was something that satisfied that we had gotten 2 answers and then we still don't know exactly how,

but the entire police reported it there and see what was the investigative report. a village where our labs are producer, john duffy, a co creator of the show, had made a request for things unrelated to seals. and somehow we don't know if there was a friendly party in the force or what somebody accidentally sits in the report. so we know, you know, we know what was looked at here and, but what i find striking is that the public and especially the act of this community that their own investigation into this because they felt they were forced to, uh, nope, nobody ever heard a peep from the police or the prosecutors about what it was that they found. it doesn't seem that the st. louis, county, police, or prosecutors felt they own some duty to the public or to the act of this community to let them know what, what they had seen. and, and it's pretty exciting because, you know, i don't want to very believe we, we do believe we solve this and all set up

a subs are out in any one who takes this journey. by the time they get to the end, you know, there's a lot of true crime out there. there's not a lot that solves it. and this if you take this journey, i think you will feel, you know, who did what and what happened the dances. maria, i'm interested here in the police angle. many residents of ferguson believe that it was either the police or the f. b. i who killed their in sales. was there a belief anywhere in the ferguson community that there was going to be an actual, legitimate investigation? did anybody really trust the process? absolutely not on nobody trusted the process. i don't think that there was one active as that we interviewed that believe that the police were going to do their due diligence and investigating, as you will hear in the pod cast. there's a lot of speculation based on what they see at the scene when, but when darren's body is found and, you know,

we go on to look at evidence and, and hear audio from other people about what they see at the time. and you can tell that they just, in fact, multiple in multiple cases in this pod cast, people don't have a belief that that police care about black investigations when there's someone who was murdered, generally speaking. and so that's concerning, that is an institutional problem that needs to be dealt with ongoing li, no matter where you live on that perception needs to be dealt with head on. because it people who didn't even know each other or from different places in missouri or in kansas over the places that you know where we interviewed people. none of them had a belief that that the police were going to do their due diligence. and if i may,

to, because i'm a little in terms of my answer, i probably shouldn't mention that, you know, part of the, what was driving this in the sense by active is and people in dance life, the police weren't doing anything. was that when they got to the scene, the next day they found, you know, the door to his jeep was lying there in the parking lot. apparently, bullet casings were still the sort of sitting there having not been collected. there was this sort of perception that the whole thing representative, big, middle finger that was clearly to be read by the community. know what you know, you, you protested us. we're now looking into, you know, your parents is stuff at all which may or may not have proven to be the case by the end of this series and re, one of the things that's fascinating to me is the fact that darren seals, murder, looked very much like the earlier unsolved murder of another, fergus inactive as the andre joshua, who was also found shot to death in a burning car. police say that they were unable to link the 2 killings,

but the daily beast found 4 more cases of similar debts in st. louis county over the previous 2 years. that sounds like it could be either official murders. it could be a serial killer. or it could be somebody working to silence black voices. what do you make of all that? i think there were 2 primary threads that we looked at there and we did come to an answer. but one of those threads is that there was someone who is now been called a serial killer. a. there are very rare thing, a black serial killer named perez, re, uh, who's m o was uh artisan. and it was also um, you know, seemingly shooting through our window and had he had, he had murdered people allegedly in the same location for instance, as the andre joshua was killed. and we spoke with his brother and his brother. i thought perez was a serious contender. as a candidate or at least 2 adult,

the andre, if not, if not darren because uh, apparently, uh, the andre had taken uh, taking him in at dice game, taking him for some money that day. and when he had seen a similar thing happen to her, as he says, a pair of locks them hand in a, you know, in a room and hit him with an iron, i believe was the quote. so we, we followed the trail of the serial killer to try to figure out if we can pin down whether he might be responsible for not only darren and the andre, his desk, but the series of bodies found in car fires. but it's natalie that these seem to connect to a particular part, sell back gang in saint louis, and the n m. o used by them as well. and as we look deeper that, that proved to be pretty much as you know, john. i, we've been intimidated there attempted to be intimidated by the ca on our past journalism by the police. but i don't think i've ever been more scared of the one. i sat with maria and looked at who we believe to be a part,

sell back gang member in the eyes and told them that we had evidence that he may have committed murder. it wasn't moment to go through us. wow. wow, maria, the darren seals case officially is still open, although i'm sure the police are doing literally nothing about it right now. what is the future hold here? are darren seals, family members just supposed to move on with their lives? are ferguson's residents just supposed to forget about him? you expect any real justice to finally come out of this case? well, i honestly, i, i think the 200 page police report shows that they did a due diligence. and the account ability is actually in the prosecuting attorney's office at this point, as the podcast will show all long this entire process in the 2 plus years we've been doing this, we've been keeping the family up to date because we felt as though we needed to

give them some resolve, but not just darren's family. also the other families that were part of this. and as we were talking about, so some of the family, one family in kansas city, another family in ferguson. we want it to be part of their healing. but in terms of darren, the, the own us frankly, is on the prosecuting attorneys office. um and when that case was delivered to present it to the prosecutor and attorney's office, it was under advisement. so by the police did such a great job. this is the irony of it all, and it took our team, our investigative team, our producers, re and myself, to get the prosecuting attorney's office to even look at the case. and so i don't want to give the details out, but when you listen to the pod cast,

you're going to hear some amazing things. and what usually people will want to say about police. they're saying about the prosecutor's office. amazing. i have to step to say, 1st of all, this is a public service. you've hit a home run on this. we should all download this podcast. thank you. rain over chelsea, journalist, author, and podcast are and thank you maria chappelle and the del former state senator for being with us today to talk about this very important issue of the great doctor. martin luther king junior once said quote, i refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. unplugged. every right thinking person, but agree with that, but that daybreak hasn't arrived for the people of friends in missouri. it hasn't arrived for the family of guarantee. in the meantime,

it's up to the rest of us to keep up. suffice. thanks for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry onto please follow me on subsets at john curiosity. we'll see you next time the. 2 2 2 the, the more to personalities been almost always displayed on the 2nd, but to totally out of me and you have them done by the most value of what we have done the scale whereby he really is. he's been looking, we have one of the we like what the issue the most the i will give you like what the she a little guy enough. are you the other day you can look to go and people throw both

of them good for the saw. the number of, again, the they've going, there's the guys it, it should have go into it that it was saying was when will be, i mean, event people with the money visits your needs based solely to see we don't get up and yet a lot with just the money that they go on is because you guys can do that. you want to give us a community dock, a but it gives you a lot to want to see what she needs to go. mean he goes empty and the, i mean, the must have gone through. yeah. we a more than the other. she be the donkey. i'm going to not soon the, but get goes, it, give us a good one because it will be the take a fresh look around. there's a life kaleidoscopic, isn't just a shifted reality distortion by how of tired vision with no real opinions.

fixtures designed to simplify will confuse really one say better wills, and then it just does. it shows you fractured images, presented as 1st can you see through their illusion going on the ground can the, the analysis, what day that he said that then you can put them into a facade indeed. and therefore, the window at assuming that the

to look into intermedia nikoto is the photo from seen. send the most of the to d today and add them within the the

only 41 percent of us adults have enough savings to cover a $1000.00 emergency. we have record numbers of americans who are on the verge of having their cars repossess more than a 137000000 americans are facing financial hardship because of medical. then in america, we do have a welfare system in place to help people who are struggling financially, but it's a conditional system. you have to prove to the government that you truly need help . the simplest way, like explain the basic income, is that is like social security. for the rest of us, a basic income would be a monthly payments that would go to everyone. just a $1000.00 a month, no strings attached to use. okay, well i would like them maybe i don't know. i just don't go crazy. the reason that i am a fan of guaranteed income because it is this idea that everybody is deserve. and that's

just by virtue of your being here. the this hours headline stories 2 dozen people are killed in an idea of strikes on this central guides in refugee camp, including babies of pregnant women according to health sources, telling us as dr. signing the allowable for israel juice of highly controversial shrunk, no weapons. i have seen countless children with their bodies and riddled instructional injuries. they have shrapnel all over the body in the head, and the next to mentor acts in the abdomen. the finally dash the boy, the army, and imposes a nationwide curfew. and it bits across student protests for at least the home.