the the time action or time to welcome back to going underground broadcasting all around the world from the u. a. today, a few years ago, german nazis after a peace treaty and then more declaration for britain began the vocation and mass murder of quarter of a 1000000 jews from the warsaw ghetto on holocaust trains to treblinka in garza today, if you accept the estimates of the medical journal the alonzo. it's the number of hello simians killed by u. k. u. s. u weapons maybe proportionately like wiping out 5 and a half 1000000, mostly women and children in britain or 27000000. mostly women and children in the usa. millions had been left to starve with nowhere to hide as hospital schools and

all signs of human civilization are in highlighted by nature weaponry and to google and amazon cloud computing systems. well, this is prison. judging is rarely prime minister benjamin netanyahu propose for wednesdays applause from the us congress board and paid for by his riley lobbyist. today at the white house, he meets genocide, joe accused even by his own supporters of being demented. all that while presumed next you as president trump as a point to design. and so i will send that to j. d funds as his vice presidential nominee. joining me from jerusalem is better and is ready negotiator and middle east director of the london based international communities organization and human rights advocacy group, dr. gosh on baskin talk about skin. thank you so much for coming on. let's just start with whether you've seen is really, authorities fail so badly as they are now, despite the support of the european union and the united states after israel is a,

well, that's become alienated from the whole of the world except those nato countries. and i think this is become recovery. individuals become alienated from large number of is where the citizens, who no longer want this government to hold us no longer what, nothing. you know, as our prime minister, it is a chilling introduction that you gave one that's quite a stormy. and it's just mold in reality that we're living here in israel and palestine. and any rational person has to intimate that it seems that israel has no coherent strategy, a facing the palestinians, facing the aggression that started by from us on october 7th. and nothing else call for the total victory is something which is certainly not achievable through any military means. there has never been a military solution to these reading published and in conflict. there still is no military solution to this conflict. there was only

a political diplomatic solution and nothing, no has done everything possible since 2009 to avoid a diplomatic political solution to these already posted in conflict. i mean, it's easy to blame a israel occupancy for all of that. i'll get on to the israeli population, but it's not just that yahoo is a, i mean it's a blinking sullivan bite and they're the people visiting israel. and i mean that, and you know, to the team, you couldn't be doing any of this without the help of the united states. good. rather than just the thing is really low over time. from the beginning of the war a way back 9 and a half months ago, the united states could have been the door in a week's time in 2 weeks time. simply by telling use of that we're not supply you with any bones anymore to drop on gossip. and that would have putting into the war . but in the american administration of the british government and other european countries, other countries around the world have supported israel's 1st of all right, to defend itself. and no one's from us. no one wants of us to stay in power and gas

and this was seen, i think it was the ultimate opportunity to change the reality on the ground. i don't think that anyone could have imagined the amount of slaughter in the amount of chilly instruction that has taken place over the last 90 and a half months by the is really early with american and other weapons. and then this is certainly shown us and that this is not sustainable. this has to end this war that's been going on between israel and the palestinians for more than a 100 years notice for has to be the last work. done that actually what, why do you think those europeans as so states and the united states by them blinking sort of why they doing that, then if they don't like then yahoo so they say as well, it's not a matter of not to know. i really think it in your introduction you talked about the, the, the holocaust is for is really jews. more jews with children. one place, one time on october 7th. and at any time since the holocaust and your serial was

traumatized. not only have the, the incredible number of people killed in their homes, taken out of their beds, taken as hostage into casa a, but we also have the reality, the israel was supposed to be the safe haven, is almost a place where we're protecting ourselves, where the of our lead protects us and on october 7th, and it wasn't there, and people were left in their shelters in the hose, in the, in the keyboard susan, communities along it also stood calling for help and no one came to assist them. and be sure that every day used to has not gone to october 8th yet. this rule is still on october 7th. and i think it is will do a very good job of transmitting that trauma to the united states and to other european countries. primarily that happens, we'll see back in terms of perhaps a sense of guilt. going back to the holocaust, we're nobody's there to predict the jews. we just tried to escape and there was no country that would take them. i think there's a sense of guilty or i think that there was a time a moral imperative to help the jewish people establish

a safe saving for themselves. and that's not the case today and say, i think we are seeing changes, we're seeing changes in the united states, maybe not the level of the restriction, but a majority of americans today. i think support the cause for palestine have independence and freedom. we're seeing that across europe and civil society all around the world, as he said, israel's between isolated and israel's being brought to the international court of justice in the international criminal court. and the space in this world for is really use the cost of our government is going to get smaller and smaller. uh, yeah, i mean, clearly, uh, the october, the 7th the massacres have changed to a character. i mean on this show we've talked about it, we had a former justice minister these really government honda to didn't accept what was being said back then gray zone electronic intifada mondo eyes have been talking

about what i read says now expose it wasn't from us that killed all those people as you say, the worst atrocities is the holocaust in terms of numbers of debts. it was the israeli government that killed all those people on october the 7th. and that's going said was just saying that, so really don't need the evidence really points in that direction. you're one or 2 cases where we know that it has really tiring fire to the home where there were hostages being held by from us terrorist. there were a couple of cases, but what did you make of the harass? i mean, this is the, is there any media? i mean, in the media or of country? supposing sending the weapons, we don't get any of that kind of information. but these railey media clearly saying the hannibal doctrine was involved on october the 7th. we think so far as investigation of what happened on october 7th. so prior to october 7th, there is the demand by the people of israel to create a national commission of inquiry heavy by supreme court judge that not in your reduces to create. but i think that there is no denial that 3000 palestinians

across the border from gaza into israel on october, 2nd, and committed atrocities went through and open the air and use it to dance festival and murder. 340 people, burn people in their homes. the large children in front of the apparently some parents in front of joe preamp at the end of the 0 evidence is the full of the young girls with which is invited on this show will invite them on for work. so this is really paper. i read, i mean your particularly interesting to speak to because of your past as regards negotiation to piece. because i think that is a big mistake to try and cover over the atrocities committed by unless we have the most cross maureen red lines on october 7th. it should never be crossed. just as israel has been crossing more, we learned we need to, we need to see the inquiry that you were calling for the net and the i was not allowing to, but you were involved in a piece deal to really as get ad should lead. so there are some with us there was a hostage release, the exaggerated between so you would be the idea of,

of discrete joe, do you know think that there is some, is riley, it's a we in the, is really staying through. so the number of a palestinian prisoners were released as part of the deal that should never happen to a game. and that's why the hannibal directive was used on october the 7th to mass kill . so many is rarely used by the israeli army on by britain united. the news, i can, they were isolated cases that we know of that are documented where be is really barley ended up doing is readings. on october 7th, the overwhelming majority of the more than 1200 people were killed on the dates were killed by her last one. you know that it's interesting. you say that because we know the discredited zach of movements, logistics. we know that the un looked into, for instance, this actual crimes that were of talked about widely in the media or in the united states and european union. they would discredited shortly after the us. we so you

went reports the u. n. by report issues clearly says there's no evidence to the claims. well, oh yeah, i read the report. it definitely says the box here in the specs can be brought in, shown that this is not correct. this is not the heart of the matter. so it's in your thing, i'm not, you know, i'm us, you talked about last people, you're saying that like animals, they were just trying to kill themselves and political violence. they like animals . i said that they committed atrocities on october. so for the show me the point was to kathy hostages for the hostage to sions. that may have been the initial plan and people, and from us told me that we sent 1500 of our fighters into israel. on october 7th, we expected a 1000 of them to be killed by just really our lead. we expected to capture all the bases, antique soldiers as hostages, but they didn't find me is really army. they're protecting the border and they didn't go to army basis. they went to civilian communities, they went to people say they went to mosul being, they want to stay wrote in or 14. these are towns on the border where they went in

the village than they killed and they've ranked and they did a truck. there's no evidence of rain whatsoever. one, no evidence of rape whatsoever, according to that, there's a you in lots of them. i mean, i don't want to think about, i don't want to argue about this, and i really don't. you either it's, it's a very sense. it's all, no. okay, you said a moment to go to me to be you want an inquiry. why then? i was really authorities not having an inquiry that would prove your allegation, you know, making these allegations which are so far and substantiate. it's not about october 17, for the and i want let them know implemented a policy since 2009 that sought to divide the palestinians to create a delivery device, palestinian authority, the motive boss of his head, and to empower a weekend from us and gaza. in order to stay to the world, we have no parking for peace. nothing noted everything in his power to prevent the 2 state solution from emerging. and this is why i believe there needs to be a commission of inquiry. it's not just about what happened october, october, 7th,

and every day since in the last 9 and a half months. but also what happened in the all the years prior when it gets there, a refuse to negotiate a 2 state solution with palestinians. the 2 state solution there were palestinians, a majority of post and into advocated interesting solution. but we have a government, it israel, which was committed to never allowing an independent publish done to be established . and that's why we need a commission of inquiry, not just to figure out what happened on october 7th. we also need to know why the army wasn't there. well, i guess where the army was defending settlers in the occupied westberg and they weren't defending israel's borders. how in the last 2 decades, the israel defense force, the idea became, is really occupation police force not doing the job for which it was established and which, which we serve in send our children disturbing. but israel's army has become a protection force for as well. the surplus, i want to know why they weren't on the border on october 7th, when you think about it, if there had been a dozen times from 3 o'clock helicopters in the air on october 7th,

early in the morning, october 7th wouldn't have happened. that's all it would have taken to prevent that massive atrocity read on the state of israel that morning. got sort of asking, i'll stop you the more from the middle east director of the international communities organization. after this break the the out probably her my little story. okay. the model girl to i got you. no problem seem to them out of the things. arguments. yes, on the drive i showed my brother through he was sudden to help people for a lo so now i never looked at searches as being saved. well, i guess i lost my list. that's the outcome of

chicago. police. it'd be gang chicago is like, you'd be a photo that police usually take your life as another crime. say another this could have been a doctor. a nurse could have been the next president. we can't keep losing people out here. the look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings accept. we're such orders at conflict with the 1st law show alignment of the patient. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence. the point obviously, is to create a trust rather than fit the various jobs. i mean with artificial intelligence we have summoning the theme and the

robot must protect this phone. existence was on the the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with veteran is really negotiate a delta gushing baskin started basking. we were talking about the same as we're talking about the, the, you know, low key evidence about what happened on that day. but as you said, we've seen the, the repeated breaking of a whole un security council resolutions and who knows what else as regards human rights against the palestinians for, for decades and for years, just remind us of how close you got to a peace deal back in the 2012, you actually mentioned the, the backing of from us by and that's in yahoo. it was a rock is really defense minister on this program will actually will die when i was

talking to him about that because he was associated with the back. if i'm us back then uh, just remind us of how close you came to a security establishment proposal and why it, why it broke down your agreement. the agreement with them ask you a negotiator to review. recall in october of 2011, the deal for the release of these really salter deluxe really was completed with the release of 1027 palestinian prisoners from israel. amongst them there were more than 300 palestinian prisoners were serving life sentences for killing his relatives. yeah. a months it was yesterday. so who are, who is the leader from us in gusta, in shortly after the success of the secret back channel, which i have established and was running for the entire time that you lot, you'd wouldn't think of giving me more than 5 years. and i started talking with my from us counterpart interlocutor, was the comment about trying to establish a long term ceasefire. who's today this week? express environments. sorry. who is today?

the spokesman, thomas, it was supposed to be police a member of the public bureau, the member of the shore account. so he's one of the investigators, he's a outside guy. so he left scouts up before the war and was the primary spokesperson of the war from b route at the time. it was just on the route anymore. any, any way you know, as a holiday and i began negotiating a long term expire. she was in it talking directly to the job really was the head of the military wing from us. and because at the time, the man who really built the military might of some us at that time, certainly the person who was responsible for objecting and holding it actually um we went through 4 or 5 verse, sorry to interrupt better. at that time, they were being bankrolled by these are in the government, advise you to remember these were these really go remember funded from us? these are the government allowed us to be funded from us as a new piece a, a financial empire. it's not only $30000000.00 that nothing you know, allowed to come to god's every month. it brought him in suitcases in the later

transfers. now how much does go to a financial level, potters, and bitcoin and other crypto currencies and businesses around the world and companies that they own? not just the money. and of course, the whole tunnel enterprise they've worked in gaza for years that in richmond from us it was many, many hundreds of millions of dollars. if not a lot more. anyway, we were negotiating long term ceasefire on the day that it with job to receive the latest version of the test. after i have consulted with the as really minister of defense, it would brock i consulted with united nations representative with the secretary general and other people about the contents of the, of the draft that we were working on. on the morning that of the jeopardy, we see the latest version in arabic later that afternoon because real assessing aged him a and he was, is seen by israel, is a, is a portable enemy, well deserved to die, of israel decided to kill him. it was not connected the mug youtube or negotiations

that we were conducting. i'm not sure that anyone in the is really military really knew that the negotiations we were conducting were ongoing. and you're gonna have chances of scripts success. but after dropping was assassinated, that was the end of those negotiations and that was in november of 2012. we have no way of independently verifying that information about how much funds. but do you think they will have people in the as early stage in most sides and the other elements of the secret said, you are unhappy with the deal that you helped negotiate because they didn't want the 1200 to palestinian prisoners captives open of indian hostages. out of going back to what i was saying earlier, the, the policy on october 7th of taking hostages because you are dealing created the president. i'm obviously not blaming you for the address of the president. there were deals that happened before the one that idea that you've been released more palestinian prisoners to deal with documents. you bring it back in the eighty's. and there were other presidents where you recognize the hannibal doctrine by some in the israeli deep state,

trying to avoid look at the time of the deal was made. it was estimated that 80 percent of these really public supported $26.00 members of these, where the government voted for the deal. 3 members, lou louis just voted against it. nothing else supported the heavy the most out. they had edition, but the chief of police, the chief of the, is where the army troops, the steps to the army and the most officer in charge of the file or recommend usually go in to vote for it the day. the deal actually was brought home on october . the 18th in 2011 was the day of celebration, give this kind of okay, so what's happened now? because of the polls show that the is really is, i mean, you've already said. then you always deeply unpopular insure might be going to jail . as soon as this. however, if it could have conflict is over, a genocide is over. what's happened? but now they don't uh, apart from those demonstrating for their relatives who are still kept hostage in guys a most israelis not protesting against the opposed to the genocide we're seeing on

our phones every few seconds of most of the women and children being slaughtered by the british american, any you weapons, you know, i think there are 2 things to take into account. what is the most is what is don't seem to hear military disaster, the piece where the army is created because we see the physical damage all these really media on these early television. they have shaped talk, we still most sorry they have take talk. they have social media now, but it's really don't watch the same tick, tock, channels that you do when they're not on from us as telegram or palestinian telegram. they say he's really media and they trust is really media it and, and they don't seem to humanitarian suffering. but they're also reliving the trauma of october 7th, every single day. and for most is really is what's happening and god is revenge. and that's how they relate to it. we don't have a, a rational society which is looking coherently and logically what's being done because we don't see it. now people like me, i get phone calls from friends and goes to every day, just yesterday,

a young woman who i hope to support her university tuition and bought her a laptop computer last year with other friends who didn't called me yesterday from the hospital. she was wounded, her mother was wounded for cousins were wounded with her. the 10th that she was living in your when you miss was destroyed all over property over blogs. this is a human story. i know this moment i know her name. i've spoken to her. i've seen her on, on what's a video, and most just really is don't have those kind of context where they actually know viewing beams in gaza here with the mindset like with a genocide next door. which day i perpetrating all the it with the weapons from britain to you as long as you exist. i mean, should, should have country like that exist on the face of the earth. i totally by those the estimates from the nonsense thing, which we equate to 27000000, wiped out mostly women and children in the united states. that's what we're talking about. if you killed 27000000 people in the united states, i don't think the question of whether another country should exist as

a legitimate question. i think the question is whether or not this conflict has a legitimate reason to continue and should with the parties be sitting down with the help of our allies in the region and around the world to resolve this conflict, we've been killing each other over our right to exist for a 100 years when i say right to exist, i mean is really some bostonians. the fact that we have failed to negotiate a deal that would enable august to live in peace and security and dignity is the fault of both sides of the complex here in the international community that has allowed us to go on with this complex for so long without forcing us to reach a solution, ok, the weather is realize the right to exist as a cause. because i know you the piano is really politicians. how mosque they also for the 2 state solution. but you know that many increasing numbers supported ones . its solution is it now time to look at a one state solution instead, all the time was before october, 7th, october 7th, to prove that the one state solution is totally not viable. i actually thought for

years before october 7th, but the 2 state solution was dead and we need to find out the solutions. and i was talking to a large number of israelis and palestinians. i'm sitting round tables and trying to come up with all kinds of ideas of federation in consideration in hybrid models. but one of the big surprises of this for is that the 2 state solution is back in front of us in countries that have been talking about a 2 state solution for 30 years, but only recognized israel or beginning to turn around, but also recognize the state of palestine and that needs to happen and well, the recognition of palestine doesn't empty occupation. it does remove the veto from israel on the question, the palestinian statehood. the original equation here that's perhaps simplistic with the equation is that the posting is when i have freedom and dignity. if israel doesn't have security, and this really won't have security and posted installer, freedom and dignity. that's not to say that the palestinians is where these all don't deserve freedom, dignity and security they do. but there's an equation that we're talking about

between the jordan river and the mediterranean sea. there are 7000000 is ready, jews and 7000000 posted in arrows. and no one is going anywhere and the possibility of their living together under one democratic secular state. there's no real. well they said that in south africa famously and the most dangerous people, it's not the same situation is here. we're not talking about a small minority that controlled a large majority that didn't have any political rights here. you're talking about to people's, on the people numbers that both claim a territory of their own claim that they give their identity. okay, well just search for your identities you demographically, that's changing and lots of israelis of left and so i'll go with the 7th. i'll give you a to know how many are we using and we know that 22000 of arrived in israel is neuberger . and since i saw, i saw the figure, but we know how, how many uh, left the same as we do, but demographically, we know where the population is headed. of you, your disability,

demographic question here. it's not a battle of the mean. it's the fact that there are 2 people here in a territorial claim. we just their own and boat, people's need to continue to live here in both people's need to find when i was having the right to live here. okay. just riley between the river and the c one sentence, everyone living between the river and the sea must have the same right to the same rights. that's the basis of it in 2 separate 2 separate places, 18 state prevent dates. okay. which is finally been critical of what to as well as done of the i c. c, investigating the genocide. do you see any prospect them your a bug style hirings for genocide? so the idea of what's happening doesn't look, the question of genocide is known that the international court of justice has moved israel is in violation of the convention of genocide. and then if you looked at the convention in the breaches of the convention that have been done, but usually people include that we're talking about genocide to your according to

the convention, there's bringing us of chewing in gaza, but there is no genocide there was told of destruction there is the intent of israel to, to not attempt this realistic seated and destroying the old gaza. but there are more than 2000000 people living in costs. and we don't have gas chambers in the ovens burning, but these and israel is not dropping in atomic bomb. and gulf of israel is not going in and plowing people with machine guns in pits that they make them dig like the nazis did to the jews in europe. this is not an absolute genocide. it is a breach of the genocide convention. but let's be real here. if this were wanting to commit genocide, we would have a 1000000 dead palestinians, not 40000 did palestinians, and that's way too much and there's no justification for it. i mean it is a war crime that is realized when committee and gaza. would it be clear about that? we have cross narrow red lines and israel's committing more prizes, garza but it's not really a genocide. got your in basket. thank you. thank you. and that's it. for the show,

i'll continue condolences to those bereaved by what many believe is a u. k. u, as a u. um, genocide will be back with a brand new episode on saturday until then keep in touch with i will i social media results. that's a new country and had to a channel going underground tv on the com to watch and you know the episodes. i'm going underground to saturday, the the hello and welcome to the cross stuff full born. here we discussed some real in the

old wanted to come here since i was 121. my grandfather told me that his mom came from russia that we were, i was part russian. i didn't plan on saying this long. i was gonna look around. i was gonna see if it was for me, but then i came and then i was like, i remember when i go home, i've never been happier in life than i am here in most of the i've only lived here a few months, but i wanted to tell you what fascinates me about russia and share the stories of other foreigners who lived here. like jay who worked as a chef and now raises goats and makes cheese in the countryside series. like chad who has been granted political asylum because he's being persecuted by the f. b. i . us, embassies. and for countries that come after me it's, it's wild like an american family that recently moved to russia with 6 children. i've never felt safe or land tire life then living here

the the one with it i have to for wonderful. those little stuff. well, that's not the only thing that is on. so the grass card now on this like little you push away watch the dealer with the which isn't it is a, is the nearest one of the windshield and liberals, the same as the old, bucking able of nearby shopping issue of the loose not in the sky warming up, so i need to make sure they get the most they might done to move right into the store, not the us and we nearby. we have said, oh no little but not a vase that i am a site that i know.