hello and welcome defrost of full force here we discussed some real in the nation or it has to welcome back to going underground broadcasting all around the world from the u. a. today, a few years ago, german nazis after a peace treaty and then more declaration for britain began the deportation and mass murder of quarter of a 1000000 jews from the warsaw ghetto on holocaust trains contributing in garza today. if you accept the estimates of the medical journal, the alonzo, that's the number of palestinians killed by u. k. u. s. u weapons maybe proportionately like wiping out 5 and a half 1000000, mostly women and children in britain or 27000000. mostly women and children in the

usa. millions have been left to stop with no way to hide as hospitals, schools and all signs of human civilization are in the highlighted by nature weaponry and to google and amazon cloud computing systems. well, this is prison. judging is rarely prime minister benjamin netanyahu prepares for wednesdays applause from the u. s. congress, board and paid for by his riley lobbyist. today at the white house. he needs genocide, jo, accused even by his own supporters of being demented. all that while presumed next you as president trump as a point to design this, so i will send that to j. d vons as his vice presidential nominee, joining me from jerusalem. his veteran is rarely negotiate during middle east director of the london based international communities organization. and human rights advocacy group, dr. gosh, on baskin talked about skin. thank you so much for coming on. let's just start with the weather you've seen is really, authorities fail so badly as they are now. despite the support of the europe and

union and the united states of to israel is a, when it's become alienated from the whole of the world except those nature of countries. and i think this is become recovery. individuals become alienated from large number of as really citizens who no longer want this government to hold us no longer what? nothing y'all was our prime minister. it is a chilling introduction that you gave one that's quite a study and it's just mold in reality that we're living here in israel and palestine. and any rational person has to intimate that it seems that israel has no coherent strategy, a facing the palestinians, facing the aggression that started by from us on october 7th. and nothing else call for the total victory is something which is certainly not achievable through any military means. there has never been

a military solution to these running published and in conflict. there still is no military solution to this conflict. there is only a political diplomatic solution and nothing now has done everything possible since 2009 to avoid a diplomatic political solution to these already posted in conflict. i mean it's easy to blame a israel occupancy for all of that. i'll go to the is there a, the population, but it's not just that yahoo is a, i mean it's blinking sullivan bite and they're the people visiting israel. and i mean that, and you know, to the deep, you couldn't be doing any of this without the help of the united states. good. rather than just the thing is really little the to or from the beginning of the war they way back 9 and a half months ago. the united states could have been the door in a week's time in 2 weeks time. simply by telling use of the notes applying you with any funds, any more to drop on gossip. and that would have put in to the war. but in the american administration of the british government and other european countries,

other countries around the world have supported israel's 1st of all right, to defend itself and north was from us. no one was about to stay in power and gas and this was seen, i think it was the ultimate opportunity to change the reality on the ground. i don't think that anyone could have imagined the amount of slaughter and the americans killing instruction that has taken place over the last 90 and a half months by the is really army with american and other weapons. and then to this is certainly shown us and that this is not sustainable. this has to end this war that's been going on between israel and the palestinians for more than a 100 years. now this war has to be the last 4 and 3 on that actually what, why do you think those european vessel states and the united states died and blinked instead of why they doing that? then if they don't like then yahoo! and so they say, well it's not a matter of not to know. i really think it in your introduction, you talked about the, the, the holocaust is for is really jews. more jews were killed. one place one time on

october 7th. and at any time since the holocaust and your serial was traumatized, not only have the, the incredible number of people killed in their homes, taken out of their beds, taking a hostage into casa a. but we also have the reality. the israel was supposed to be the same type of thing, is there was a place where we're protecting ourselves where the army protects us and on october 7th, and it wasn't there. and people were lifting their shelters in the hose in the, in the keyboards and communities along. it also stood calling for help and no one came to assist them. and we hear that every day used to has not gone to october 8th yet. this rule is still on october 7th. and i think it is will do a very good job of transmitting the trauma to the united states and to other european countries. primarily that happens was back in terms of perhaps a sense of guilt. going back to the holocaust were nobody's there to predict the jews when jews tried to escape and there was no country that would take them. i

think there's a sense of guilty or i think that there was a time a moral imperative to help the jewish people establish a safe saving for themselves. and that's not the case today in and say, i think we are seeing changes. we're seeing changes in the united states, maybe not at the level of the restriction, but i'm gonna charge you for americans today. i think support the cause for palestine have independence and freedom. we're seeing that across europe and civil society all around the world. as you said, israel's becoming isolated and israel's being brought to the international court of justice in the international criminal court. and the space in this world for is really use because of our government is going to get smaller and smaller. uh yeah, i mean clearly uh the uh, october the 7th the massacres have changed to a character. i've been on this show. we've talked about it. we had a former justice minister these really government honda to didn't accept what was

being said back then gray zone electronic intifada mondo eyes have been talking about what permits is now exposed. it wasn't home us that killed all those people as you say, the worst atrocities into the holocaust in terms of numbers of debts. it was the israeli government that killed all those people on october, the 7th i read going. so i was just saying that so really none of the evidence really points in that direction. your one or 2 cases where we know that it is really tiring fire to the home where there were hostages being held by from us terrorist. there were a couple of cases, but what did you make of that? i read, i mean, this is the, is really media. i mean, in the media or of country, supposing sending the weapons, we don't get any of that kind of information. but these railey media clearly saying the hannibal doctrine was involved on october the 7th. he thinks the investigation of what happened on october 7th. so prior to october 7th, there is the demand by the people of israel to create a national commission of inquiry heavy by supreme court judge that not in your

reviews is to create but i think that there is no denial that 3000 palestinians across the border from gaza into israel on october 7th, and committed atrocities went through and open the air and use it to dance festival and murder. 340 people, burn people in their homes. a large children in front of the apparently some parents in front of joe 3 up at the end of the evidence is the full of the young girls with which is invited on this show will invite him on for work. so this is really paper. i read, i mean your particularly interesting to speak to because of your past as regards negotiation to piece. because i think that is a big mistake to try and cover over the atrocities committed by as a mess the most cross more a red lines on october 7th. it should never be crossed. just as israel has been crossing more, we learned we need to, we need to see the inquiry that you were calling for the net and the i was not allowing to, but you were involved in a piece deal to really is get ad should lead. so there is homes with us, it was

a hostage reduce the only exaggerated between so you would be the ideal for the discrete joe, do you know think that there is some, is riley, it's in these really states who so the number of a palestinian presidents were released as part of the deal that should never happen to a game. and that's why the hannibal directive was used on october the 7th to mass kill . so many is rarely used by the israeli army on by brittany, united. the news, i can, they were isolated cases that we know of that are documented where be is really barley ended up doing is really is on october 7th, the overwhelming majority of the board, the 1200 people were killed on the dates were killed by her last one, you know, that it's interesting you say that because we know the discredited zach of movements, logistics. we know that the un looked into, for instance, this actual crimes that were of talked about widely in the media or in the united

states and european union. they would discredited shortly off to view it while they were last we. so you wouldn't report the you and by report issues clearly says there's no evidence for the claims. well, no, yeah, i read the report, it definitely says the proxy or in the specs can be brought in so that this is not correct. this is not the heart of the matter, so it's in your thing and i'm not, you know, i'm us, you talked about last people. you're saying that like animals, they were just trying to kill themselves and political violence, much kind of moves. i said that they committed atrocities on october, so the show me the point was to kathy at all stages for all students during oceans, that may have been the initial plan and people and from us told me that we sent 1500 of our fighters into israel on october 7th, we expected a 1000 of them to be killed, but it's really our lead. we expected to capture all the bases, antique soldiers as hostages, but they did a fine is really army. they are protecting the border and they didn't go to army basis. they went to civilian communities. they went to, people seem to,

they went to most of being, they want to stay, ro, dental, 14. these are towns on the border where they went in the village and they killed them, they break them, they did a truck, there's no evidence of rain whatsoever. one, no evidence or re whatever, according to that or the un, lots of them. i mean, i don't want to think about, i don't want to argue about this and i really don't. you either it's, it's a very sensitive, oh no. okay, you said a moment to go to me to be, you want an inquiry. why then? or is there any authorities not having an inquiry that would prove your allegation, you know, making these allegations which are so far and substantiated? it's not about october 17, for the i want to let them know implemented a policy since 2009, that sort of divide the palestinians to create a delivery device, palestinian authority, and the boss of his head, and to empower a weekend from us and gaza in order to say to the world, we have no parking for peace, nothing you know, did everything in his power to prevent the 2 state solution from emerging. and this

is why i believe there needs to be a commission of inquiry. it's not just about what happened october, october, 7th, and every day since in the last 9 and a half months. but also what happened during the world of years prior when it gets to refuse to negotiate a 2 state solution with palestinians. the 2 state solution there were palestinians, a majority of post and into advocated to spend solution. but we have a government, it israel, which was committed to never allowing an independent publish done to be established . and that's why we need a commission of inquiry, not just to figure out what happened on october 7th. we also need to know why the army wasn't there. why do use where the army was defending settlers in the occupied westberg, and they weren't defending israel's borders. how when the last 2 decades, the israel defense force, the idea became and is really occupation police force not doing the job for which it was established in fortune which we serve and send our children disturbing. but israel's army has become a protection for squares really surplus. i want to know why they weren't on the border on october 7th. when you think about it, if there had been

a dozen times and 3 attract helicopters in the air on october 7th, early in the morning, october 7th wouldn't have happened. that's all it would have taken to prevent that massive atrocity read on the state of israel. that morning. joshua vasquez, i'll stop you the more from the middle east director of the international communities organization after this break the car acceptance. and i'm going to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different. several opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please, or do you have the state department to see i a weapons bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. i changed and whatever you do, don't want my show state main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again,

you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way you the all wanted to come here since i was 12. when my grandfather told me that his mom came from russia that we were, i was part russian. i didn't plan on staying this long. i was gonna look around, i was gonna see if it was for me. but then i came. and then i was like, i remember when i go home, i've never been happier in life than i am here in russell. i've only lived here a few months, but i wanted to tell you what fascinates me about russia and share the stories of other foreigners who lived here like jay who worked as a chef and now raises gods and makes cheese in the countryside. to me like chad who has been granted political asylum because he's being persecuted by the f. b. i us, embassies. and for countries that come after me it's,

it's wild like an american family that recently moved to russia with 6 children. i've never felt safer at my entire life than living here the, the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with veteran is really negotiate to talk to gusher and basket. started basking. we were talking about the assemblies we had talking about the, the, you know, murky evidence about what happened on that day. but as you said, we've seen the, the repeated breaking of a whole un security council resolutions. and who knows what else as regards human rights against the palestinians for, for decades and for years. just remind us of how close you got to a peace deal back in 2012. you actually mentioned the backing of, i'm us buying that's in yahoo! it was a rock is really defense minister on this program will actually will die when i was

talking to him about that because he was associated with the backing of i'm us back then. uh, just remind us of how close you came to a security establishment proposal. i'm why it uh why it broke down your agreement. the agreement with i'm ask you a negotiator to review. recall in october of 2011, the deal for the release of his release altered you'll actually it was completed with the release of 1027 palestinian prisoners from israel. amongst them, there were more than 300 palestinian prisoners were serving life sentences for killing his relatives. yeah. months it was yesterday. so who are, who is the leader from us in casa, in, shortly after the success of the secret back channel, which i have established and was running for the entire time that the lot you'd want to think of giving me more than 5 years. and i started talking with my from us counterpart interlocutor, us a comment about trying to establish a long term ceasefire. who's today this week? express environments. sorry. who is today?

the spokesman panama, as one of the slips, the police, a member of the probably bureau, the member of the shore account. so he's one of the, from us leaders, he's outside of god. so he left also before the war and was the primary spokesperson of the war. from b route at the time and just aren't able to do any more any, any way. and honestly, somebody united began negotiating a long term ceasefire. she was in talking directly to the job really was the head of the military when from us. and because at the time, the man who really built the military might of some us at that time, certainly the person who was responsible for objecting and holding it actually. um we went through 4 or 5 verse going through a job interview at that time. they were being bankrolled by the. is there any government as well as you do? i don't know. nobody's with these really go. we never funded from us. these are the government allows us to be funded from us as a look this a, in a financial empire. it's not only $30000000.00 that nothing you know,

allowed to come to god's every month. it brought him in suitcases and they later trousers. now how much does delta of financial, their partners and bitcoin and other triple currencies and businesses around the world and companies that they own and not just the money. and of course, the whole tunnel enterprise they've worked in gospel for years. that in richmond, thomas, it was many, many hundreds of millions of dollars, not a lot more. anyway, we were negotiating long term ceasefire a on the day that it with job to receive the latest version of the text. after i have consulted with these really minister of defense, it would brock i consulted with united nations representative with the secretary general and other people about the contents of the, of the draft that we were working on on the morning that the job or to receive the latest version in arabic, later that afternoon, israel assassinated him in she was, is seen by israel, is a, is a portable enemy, well deserved to die, and his real decided to kill him. it was not connected in my view to big

negotiations that we were conducting. i'm not sure that anyone in the is really military really knew that the negotiations we were conducting were ongoing and even that chances of steps success. but after job it was assassinated. that was the end of those negotiations. and that was in november of 2012. we have no way of independently verifying that information about how much funds. but do you think there were people in these early state and most sides and the other elements of the secret said you were unhappy with the deal that you helped negotiate because they didn't want the 1200 to boston in prison is captives open of indian hostages. out of going back to what i was saying earlier, the, the policy on october 7th of taking hostages because your dealer created the president. i'm obviously not blaming you for the address of the president. there were deals that happened before the one that i didn't that you've been released more palestinian prisoners did deal with us. majority of it back in the eighty's. and there were other presidents where you recognize the hannibal doctrine by some

in the is riley, deep state trying to avoid looked at the time of the deal was made. it was estimated that 80 percent of these really public supported $26.00 members of the is where the government voted for the deal. 3 members live, witnesses voted against it. nothing else supported the heavens. the most out they had edition, but the chief of police, the chief of the is where the army troops steps the army and the most officer in charge of the file or recommend usually go in to vote for it the day. the deal actually was brought home on october 18th, in 2011, was the day of celebration in this country. okay, so what's happening now because of polls show that the is really is, i mean, you've already said, then you always deeply unpopular insure might be going to jail. as soon as this, a risk to conflict is over, genocide is over. what's happened? but now they don't, apart from those demonstrating for their relatives who are still kept hostage in guys, a most israelis not protesting against the opposed to the genocide we're seeing on

our phones every few seconds of most the women and children being slaughtered by the british american any you weapons, you know, i think there are 2 things to take into account. what is the most is what is don't seem to hear military disaster, the piece where the army is created in casa, we see the physical damage. all these are the media on these early television. they have shape talk, we still most sorry they have take talk. they have social media now there is really don't watch the same tick, tock, channels that you do and they're not on from us till the ground. more palestinian telegram, they say is really media and they trust is really media it and, and they don't seem to humanitarian suffering, but they're also regulating the trauma of october 7th, every single day. and for most is really is what's happening. and garza is revenge . and that's how they relate to it. we don't have a, a rational society which is looking coherently and logically what's being done because we don't see it. now people like me,

i get phone calls from friends and goes to every day just yesterday, a young woman. well, i hope to support her university tuition and bought her a laptop computer last year with other friends which it didn't called me yesterday from the hospital. she was wounded. her mother was wounded or cousins were wounded with her. the 10th that she was living in york when eunice was destroyed all over property over blogs. this is a human story. i know this woman. i know her name. i've spoken to her. i've seen her on, on what's a video. and most, this really is don't have those kind of contacts where they actually know human beings getting closer to the mindset, like with a genocide next door, which they are perpetrating. all we have with the weapons from britain to you as long as you exist. i mean, should, should have country like that exist on the face of the earth. i totally my, those, the estimates from the nonsense thing would you equate to 27000000. wiped out mostly women and children in the united states. that's what we're talking about. if you killed 27000000 people in the united states,

i don't think the question of whether another country should exist as a legitimate question. i think the question is whether or not this conflict has a legitimate reason to continue. and shouldn't the parties be sitting down with the help of our allies in the region and around the world to resolve this conflict? we've been killing each other over our right to exist for a 100 years. when i say right to exist, my name is really some bostonians. the fact that we have failed to negotiate a deal that would enable august to live in peace and security and dignity is the fault of both sides of the complex here in the international community. that has allowed us to go on with this complex for so long without forcing us to reach a solution. ok, the weather is realize the right to exist as a cause because i know you the yellow is really politicians. i'm us. they also for the 2 state solution, but you know that many increasing numbers supported once its solution. is it now time to look at a one state solution instead, all the time was before october, 7th, october somethings prove that the one state solution is totally not viable. i

actually thought for years before october 7, that the 2 state solution was dead. and we need to find the solutions and i was talking to the large number of israelis and palestinians. i'm sitting round tables and trying to come up with all kinds of ideas of veneration in confederation in hybrid models. but one of the big surprises of this war is that the 2 state solution is back in front of us in countries that have been talking about a 2 state solution for 30 years, but only recognized israel are beginning to turn around and also recognize the state of palestine and that needs to happen and well, the recognition of palestine doesn't empty opposition. it does remove the veto from israel on the question the palestinian statehood. there is an equation here that's perhaps simplistic, but the equation is that the post names will not have freedom and dignity of is will, doesn't have security. and this really won't have security and posted names don't have freedom indignity. that's not to say that the palestinians is where these all don't deserve freedom, dignity and security. they do. but there's an equation that we're talking about

between the jordan river and the mediterranean sea. there are southern 1000000 is ready, jews, and 7000000 posted in error. and no one is going anywhere and the possibility of their living together under one democratic circular state. there's no real. well they said that in south africa famously and for, for can get the most danger you, but it's not the same situation is here. we're not talking about a small minority that controlled a large majority that didn't have any political rights here. you're talking about 2 people's on people numbers that both claim the territory of their own claim that they give their identity. okay, well just search on your identity as you've demographically, that's changing, and lots of israelis of left until october, the 7th. i'll give you a don't know how many are we using and we know that 22000 of arrived in israel is neuberger. and since i saw, i saw the figure, but we know how, how many uh, left the same and we do uh, but demographically, we know where the population is headed. have you,

your disability demographic question here. it's not a bottle of the mean. it's the fact that there are 2 people here in a territorial claim. we just their own and boat, people's need to continue to live here in both people's need to find a window, or they're having the right to live here. okay? just riley between the river and the c one sentence, everyone living between the river and the sea must have the same right to the same rights. that's the basis of an in 2 separate 2 separate nation 18 state for print dates. okay, which is finally been critical of what is relas done? of the icbc investigating the genocide. do you see any prospect from your book style high eddings for genocide? so the idea of what's happening and gaza, look, the question of genocide is name that the international court of justice has moved that israel is in violation of the convention of genocide. and then if you look at the convention in the breaches of the convention that have been done, but usually people include that we're talking about genocide to your

a georgia into the convention. there's spring, massive chilling in gaza, but there is no genocide. there was total destruction. there is the intent of israel to come, not attempt, this realist succeeded in destroying an old garza, but there were more than 2000000 people living in the us and we don't have guests chambers and ovens burning. but these and israel is not dropping an atomic bomb, and god of israel is not going in and plowing people with machine guns in picks, that they make them dig like the nazis stick to the jews in europe. this is not an actual genocide. it is a breach of the genocide convention, but let's be real here. if this were wanting to commit genocide, we would have a 1000000 dead palestinians, not 40000 palestinians. and that's way too much and there's no justification for it . i mean, it is a war crime that israel has been committing and gaza ought to be clear about that. we have cross narrow red lines and israel's committing more prize, gaza, but it's not really a genocide showing baskin. thank you. thank you. and that's it for the show. i'll

continue condolences to those bereaved by what many believe is a u. k u s a u of genocide will be back with a brand new episode on saturday until then keep in touch my role as social media results. that's a new country and had to a channel going underground tv on the com to watch, new and old episodes of going underground society, the hello and welcome to the cost of full force. here we discuss the wheel in the

center for sponsor, for as long as you store the committee of the, the combined the percentage soon, i made a return. you to set up read it just, it would be due to the cbs, cbs criteria to that you're seeing that clips stores as soon as they continue to look into, you need to know if they keep the private and look at the with the name and the doctor's office, or any of us mostly to prose media, say doing this stuff. the one you upside with make at least the persistence. but some of those you, me to the best you scared of the machine that you put, that was a pretty sure on the part of the plane was who used to born in the religious you believe the patrol theme and the key to to you to be less most is to look for it to the, to the customer for the adults told them and the height is almost to go. the great and then to keep it, but often doesn't display version like as a be shown let's. let's disco customs your last and grasping position with this

mission as the police without leaving your seat. the procedure is continue. if you will go into the the it is breaking news this our analogy international as is not enough. republican state joe biden pulls out of the presidential race, but they did mon, he puts his poach now because they say he's on the fit for the jump paid while democrats are hobbling around the come on a high risk to support run to lead america with some ferrying of that power is just like a commander in chief would simply be a profit, hopefully establish they would continue to call the shots if commer harris is president. and where have they let us to the brink of war with multiple countries in all parts of the world and closer to the brink of nuclear war and armageddon now than ever before. auto quote, the enemy is not safe inside tel aviv.