in. 2 2 2 i write and speak frequently about issues related to prison reform in sentencing reform. i speak also about the human rights aspects of the american prison system, and about how the united nations considers the us practice of using solitary confinement as punishment as a form of torture. in the federal prison system, which is supposed to be better than the state and local systems, hundreds of prisoners die from acts of violence. every year. others die of heat stroke because most prisons have no air conditioning, unless of course it's in the warden's office or in the guard booth. medical care is worse than it is in the 3rd world. the food is not meant for human consumption. the water is, in many cases, not drinkable. what happens when a prisoner wants to use his time constructively? what if he wants to get an education or kick a drug habit or alcohol addiction, or learn a skill? what happens when he just wants to learn how to live as an independent adult? what happens?

literally nothing. there is no budget for these luxuries. you can't get an education. beyond the high school equivalency certificate, you can't learn plumbing or electrical work or mechanical repair or anything else. there's no therapy to help you beat your addiction. nothing. so when you're released, you're given a bus ticket and $50.00, and the rest is up to you. our guest today has seen the ugliest parts of the american prison system. sean mcdonald has had a very difficult life. his mother committed suicide when he was 4 years old and he was adopted. he grew up in the tough streets of south boston, massachusetts. he began taking heroin at the age of 16, and soon after he was convicted of bank robbery. at the young age of 20, he found himself incarcerated in one of the toughest prisons in america, the us penitentiary at lewisburg. he spent his twenties there. upon his release, he was out of prison for one single day before committing another crime that saw

him incarcerated through his thirties in the toughest prison in the state of massachusetts. 4 of those years were spent in solitary confinement. when he was released with that bus ticket in $50.00, the only thing he had to look forward to was homelessness and more drugs. which on the donald did not want to become a statistic, he wanted to become a success. he straightened himself out, he kicked his drug habit. he worked hard and he made a life for himself that life is tough, but he's making it we're very happy to have shown mcdonald with us today. sean, welcome to the show. thank you very much. i sean, i'd like to begin by asking you to give our viewers a short overview of your life. you certainly have not had an easy time of things. the universe has not made life easy for you. tell us about why you've been arrested in the past. how long you've served in prison and where you serve that time. i grew

up in south boston, the ghetto, the irish shadow in boston. it's a lot of people know where it is. i guess some do some don't, but that's where i grew up. it was a free place to grow up. everyone has sons. i have a prime a going on a life. without 16, i started using drugs i saw using i v. harrowing. i was shooting harrow in my, i'm 16 years old. and it was basically to kill all the pain that i had inside of me from all the trauma that i was down with. and unfortunately, that led me to a wrong path. and i sat for minute in crime and i sat around bank. so i was 16 years old. by the time i was 20, i was so that the f b, i died mean and i was 20 years old and i went to louis barry penitentiary. i spent

10 years there. um, after that, i got off one night and then i went back and spent 10 years in states system. and when i was in last very parents hatchery us, it was one of the worst places i've ever been in my life 1st. like when i was going there, we were getting the lifted out of manchester, new hampshire. so we drove up the, the gods, open the doors, let us all out of the van and get on the airplane. but everyone was asking where they were going. and when i got to me, they're like lewisburg unit. everybody in the village i. oh, oh my god, i'm like what? why like ask them if it's a camp or dependent century and i asked them it says united states pilots actually lewisburg. so everyone was telling me this, and you're a young kid that's

a very violent joint. you. uh, yeah, watch healthy. so you gotta make sure you take a, so don't tell people how much time you have cuz his life is zone like and see people go home and they would love the mess your time up and stuff like that. so i got another plane, i ended up going to oklahoma for glass vacation. uh, 2 weeks later the house phone back to pennsylvania. and i drove up to his prison and it was built like a castle. it still had a 100 foot smoke tower in the middle from when they use the heat, the prism a call. so as soon as i got off the bus one on one of the cops there was a go, we just took a body out yesterday. mean somebody got married and i'm thinking with a, how am i the judge recommended that i go to fort devon's, which is it can be a low, medium, or with any type a,

the level, the your on you, the daughter for devons. it's like pretty much a medical joint and you all gotta worry about stuff like that. but the feds override it and decided to send me to a penitentiary because i had a violent crime. while i was there, i realized that i was all by myself. it's like john said, and you know, those guys from boston and they claim to like have my back and they all we are, they are all happy that i was there. but i had to show my paperwork for us to prove i was in or at the they give you a week to do that. i was fortunate enough to have a friend that knew we knew that i was good to go. i got my paperwork. i gave it to them, but like those incidents i ran into like the this group

that they call the dc black sarah prison yang. and a lot of them are what they call food event. it's now believe in is someone that rates somebody in prison and one of them asked me if i was a boy and he asked me what sexual like. he said it in the sexual way and being a boy, somebody that gives himself up and that's what they do for the rest of the of it. you know, and i decided that i wasn't gonna be that i was going to remain a man. and i had to go get a knife and i had unfortunately stabbed this person. it's not something i want it to do. it's not who i am. i. i've never been a virus like that my life. but i was gonna let the other all happen. and i ended up going to shoot for 18 months on that.

and this is just like there's no a form in that prison. there's no, there's no like they have a drug program in the feds. and if you're in a penitentiary, you can't do the drug program. you have to be eligible for a medium to do a drug program. and that takes a year off the sentence and you get to get a yeah, a halfway house to go home to. we weren't eligible for that. and because i was in such a violent place, i couldn't keep myself out of trouble to get my point slowly to go to a medium because i always had to keep stand up for myself and defending myself the way i was. so i, i decided to make a change in my own life. and i, um, i took off from boston, i came up to pittsville mass. i got myself and

a half warehouse program that deals with mental health and drug addiction. and i've been out of prison for 5 years now. i'm working on my ged and then i'm going to have to go to driving school and work on that because i never drove a car in my life because i spent my whole entire life in prison. i spent from 14 to 18 and juvenile from when i 1st started doing drugs and everything. and then i spent 18 to 20 in the county jail. then i spent 20 to 30 in the feds and the 30 to 40 in state. so uh, 43 years old right now, and i got a good amount of time out of prison going on for me. and i would like to keep it that way. a meant to that. one of the 1st things that i learned on my very 1st day in prison and you touched on this on your own,

is nobody cares about you. nobody is looking out for you. you have to think about your own nutrition, exercise medical dental. but is that even really possible? is it possible to be healthy in prison? so tell us about your medical and dental care in prison. well those, the time when i was lewisburg, when, when i was sitting in an issue and i had a bad stomach problem and i lost 20 pounds and it was really noticeable and i was throwing up. i have all types of like horrible symptoms. and they didn't care, they didn't do nothing for me. they would send me down to the infirmary. they would tell me they don't know what's wrong with you, and they would send me back to my so where i'm logged out 23 hours a day. now as a time, i still had people in my life, the log me kid for me and with the f one me. so it took them to call steven

lynch, who at the time was us center the it tell him what was going on. he was himself boss and also so he called the prison and he asked him what's going on? you're not taking care of this k, i heard he's very sick, blah blah, blah. and he, he lost 20 pounds and i guess he needs to be checked out. so immediately after that they started taking me off to the hospital, run me for das turns, or i had a bacterial infection called h for laurie from dirty trays. the v is what they do is the trays in prison is they'll bring into the kitchen. they will wash them, but they really don't get washed, but they put them a stack them all together right next to each other inside the washing machine and then the steam clean. but like it at as lunchtime, if you have lettuce, it's of the time comes. you could have let it still on each right from lunch. so

they were a clean, they weren't sanitary. and you're right, john, i very, it's not possible to stay healthy in there. that is absolutely right. i saw the same kinds of things, not to that scale, of course, but the same things that you did. okay, so my 1st full day in prison was fish day for lunch, but one of the other prisoners told me not to touch the fish because they called it sewer trout. when i got to the cafeteria, i saw these boxes that had written on them. alaskan cod product of china, not for human consumption feed use only. and sure enough, this was animal grade food and in fact, this is the kind of food that we were fed every single day. it was meant for animals not for people. we were even once fed dog food by accident because it was ms. mark as taco meat and the tragedy there was that we didn't even realize it was

done through. that's how bad the normal quality was. what was your experience in prison with food? mine was exactly the same, the did you say give you the box that it comes in? has a scale across phones. i suppose the causes cancer and that's the only thing you can drink. we males is this juice that everyone is saying causes cancer. and so in the state system it is, you don't have somebody sending you money so you can get commissary yoga like die of starvation. you're gonna lose weight. there's no way you're going to be able to be healthy and work out because they don't. first off, they don't give you enough. they give you a little half scoop of gone a little half a scoop. uh um. let's say,

i don't know a cake, a little small cake to come with it and something the reason to call called on, because a square piece of me that nobody knew what it was. and they served that most of the time. you're exactly right about the fish doubt. every friday was fish, who's called the friday. i didn't need it and it's just not for human consumption, but they don't care. the trays come pre packed, they give them to blocks, they pass them out. like safe system didn't have a cafeteria job, like the feds did. they make you yourself, so you use come all get a tray and then you going you so. so you get, have these tomato sauce, maybe a small cake and some call time thing. and it's gross. you can eat it. and the people, they get commissary,

they give all of their extra trays. they don't have to eat that. you know, they don't wanna do it if you use it on. so they don't want to catch nothing. you know. and i don't know, i always thought like my parents when they were alive. these are things of the prism provides everything for you. so like i didn't send the money, is a prison told them we feed him, we give him smooth his. we give him hygiene when they don't give you. none of that, you get a pair of bobbles fall apart in a week. so they don't feed you, you lose weight, die salvation every. now you all have not home geez, i wish every night you go to bed. wait, stomach touch, any of that. and the quality of the food is just horrible. shawn, that's heart breaking. thank you. we're going to take a short break and when we come back, we're going to speak with sean mcdonalds, about the broader problems that american prisoners faced in every prison in america

. the system is broken. and it seems that nobody in a position of authority has any idea how to fix it state to the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 what is the state of the continent of boxes? oh, shall we? and said ralph, with the rest of the world, we're going to relate to the wind in terms of nations or in tons of tray. africa must define what she wants. political africa must define us of cultures. africa must define ourselves critically. the cause of your guys, no choice but to move forward. forward pushing with the

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the. 2 2 2 welcome back to the whistle blowers and john kerry onto we're speaking with sean mcdonald about his experience in the american prison system. john, thanks again for being with us. thank you very much. i sean, you are in 2 of the most dangerous and most high security prisons in america. tell us about security in places like those. what was life like on a daily basis and did you trust present authorities to keep you safe? when i was in prison, i had no access to nothing to help me better myself. like there was no program and there was no work. there was no way to earn money. there was no way to do anything. if you had mental health issues. they were again dealt with because in

have the problem is a health staff, they didn't care about you, everybody works. the ceo's ceo's don't care about the convicts. so the nurses are with ceo's, if there is, um, mental health providers there with the ceo's. so they don't probably medicaid people, they don't probably help people like i told you people commit suicide all the time . these you can tell them the suicidal you do. they taught you and i went from for years and due to the street, i didn't know what to do. it myself. i couldn't be around people. i went and got a head kind of as soon as i got out and i was so nervous and associates looking around, i have people bumping into me. i'm not used to that. i couldn't even get through the heck i and i went to my sister's house and she lives in the project. so she

had a little poor child side. and i used to always go out there to get away from everybody and sit there and it changes smoke cigarettes all day. and i wondered why that was so comfortable for me. in one day it hit me. it's like this is like, you're all prisoners out. you know what i mean, you're all by itself in your own prison. and so, and that's where, you know, and that's what makes you comfortable. so that's why you keep running in the air, cuz you don't like being around people or running out it is outside. so it's, it's, it's, there's really no way to prepare someone is going to prison on how to get themselves taken care of while they're in there. the best, the best advice i can give is try to stay as healthy as you can. and i know that i know you can't control that,

but try and take care. you see the best you can because they're not gonna fix them . they gonna pull them. i don't know that i have your family members call the prison as the family members putting grievances because they're not doing the right things. they should be for people. i don't know what the answer is. i mean it, it shouldn't be the way it is. i say that like i shouldn't as off for years indeed you the summer, which is what they found me guilty of institutionalize right. i've seen the last 4 years of my life. solitary confinement the something i had absolutely nothing to do with. and i had no control over the situation, even though i was never arrested for it. they couldn't even get probable cause. i also want to ask you about the absence of opportunities. you had no access to education, to counseling, to therapy,

or to literally anything else to prepare you for life on the outside. in fact, you went directly from solitary confinement to freedom. how common was that and what you prisons do to prepare prisoners for life? well, like i said, i had, i had h florey while i was sitting in the show in the fads, which is the whole, they called the issue is $23.00. i'll walk down, you get an hour a day and it pays dar channel. it does basically what they feel like a dog. you get one hour and a cage and all you can do is walk back and forth. if you even get that, if you not up at 4 in the morning and catch the sides, you go on by his door and tell him, you are a rack and you got no alarm clocks, no, nothing. you're not getting right. right. but i had h florey, my stomach was so bad, i was throwing up. i had diarrhea, everything was

a mess. i lost for 20 pounds. i was putting in all types of medical slips as the medical slip at the medical center. i was asking the nurses when they came down, can you please tell me what's going on? am i gonna be going out for any test? does anybody know what's happened and nobody knew anything? it wasn't until stephen lynch called the prison system and told them that he was concerned about my out. but they started taking me the hospitals and they found out the problem and they medicated me. right. but i was lucky. everyone else in there. they didn't have that, like people lucky if they have anybody, they don't have people calling sanity is they google get free admittedly, like you should be able to get free and medically regardless like they. that's what medical she'd be for, but they have for nothing they,

they just collect the day jack, and they go home and they, and they costs people their lives. and with me, it was the age flory that i had something else going on with me. i forget the name is that condition, but it was in my low of body and um, it took months for that to get taken care of. uh, i had a hernia. um it took probably 3 years to get the operation. and i was like, you even did it and i was sick all time these i wasn't even right. i was and i didn't have the fortune of somebody sending me money, so i could have commissary. so i had the drake. and if you don't follow it, you get a night you can bump into someone in the hallway and say, hey, excuse me, i'm sorry, i apologize if you don't say that, you can be walk in the hallway. the next thing and nathan, you back is

a perfectly good feel like you this back to them. well backed medical, there was no medical. was absolutely no medical. i was fortunate enough and i was in stages them. i didn't catch anything wrong with me, like the 2 things that happened to me in the beds. nothing like that happened to me . i actually, one time i caught cellulite, it's in my legs, and i showed the nurse, and he gave me is i buy optics, which was, i was shocked. i barely never happens, but he was a good nurse and he ended up getting fired and walked off the comp on the i don't know why he must have did something to the god mag, maybe use up and out too many convicts. maybe he wasn't doing what they want him to do, which is nothing. you know. so you would think in a prison, this is something that they would have problem medical and

like things for you to do in order to get your life better. so you don't come back as while to say this is the rate is so low in massachusetts because people get out and they have no clue. it's do it themselves. and they go back to drugs, you know, and then a, in a bag in prison. i was fortunate enough to just call a call in and like i, i couldn't do it no more. it was tor jeremy. crazy time. no more. i couldn't use drugs or i was just tired. you know? so i ran away and i'm over here fighting for my life every day. well, god bless. i wish you the very, very best for an art character is the former police commissioner of new york city. he found himself serving a prison term after a conviction for corruption. and when he got out of prison, he said this and forgive me, it's a little bit long quotes,

don't promote yourself as a country of constitutionality and compassion. if you honestly believe that putting people in prison and treating them like animals is justified, stop all the heights that we live in a free and democratic society. i used to ramble on about the same stuff, but now are we really a country that believes in fairness and compassion? i've met goodman yes. good man in prison, who made mistakes out of stupidity or ignorance, greed, or just plain bad judgments. but they did not need to be sent to prison to be punished, 18 months for catching too many fish. 2 years for inflating income on a mortgage application. 3 months for selling a wells tooth on ebay. 15 years for a 1st time, non violent drug conspiracy in which no drugs were ever found or seized. there are thousands of people like these in our prisons today, costing american tax payers billions of dollars. when these individuals could be

punished in smarter alternative ways. our courts are over punishing decent people who make mistakes and our prisons have no rewards or incentives for good behavior. in this alone, criminal justice and prison systems contradict their own mission statements. and what i'd like to think are guess sean mcdonald for being with us today. and thank you to our viewers for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry. aku, please follow me on sub stack at john kerry onto we'll see you next time the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the, the,

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