about issues related to prison reform in sentencing reform. i speak also about the human rights aspects of the american prison system, and about how the united nations considers the us practice of using solitary confinement as punishment as a form of torture. in the federal prison system, which is supposed to be better than the state of local systems, hundreds of prisoners die from active violence every year. others die of heat stroke because most prisons have no air conditioning, unless of course it's in the warden's office or in the guard booth. medical care is worse than it isn't the 3rd world, the food is not meant for human consumption. the water is in many cases, not drink apple. what happens when the prisoner wants to use his time constructively? what if he wants to get an education or kick a drug habit or alcohol addiction, or learn a skill? what happens when he just wants to learn how to live as an independent adult? what happens? literally nothing. there is no budget for these luxuries. you can't get an

education. beyond the high school equivalency certificate, you can't learn plumbing or electrical work or mechanical repair or anything else. there's no therapy to help you beat your addiction. nothing. so when you're released, you're given a bus ticket and $50.00, and the rest is up to you. our guest today has seen the ugliest parts of the american prison system. sean mcdonald has had a very difficult life. his mother committed suicide when he was 4 years old and he was adopted. he grew up in the tough streets of south boston, massachusetts. he began taking heroin at the age of 16, and soon after he was convicted of bank robbery. at the young age of 20, he found himself incarcerated in one of the toughest prisons in america, the us penitentiary at lewisburg. he spent his twenties there. upon his release, he was out of prison for one single day before committing another crime that saw him incarcerated through his thirties in the toughest prison in the state of

massachusetts. 4 of those years were spent in solitary confinement. when he was released with that bus ticket in $50.00, the only thing he had to look forward to was homelessness and more drugs. which on the donald did not want to become a statistic, he wanted to become a success. straighten himself out, he kicked his drug habit. he worked hard and he made a life for himself that life is tough, but he's making it we're very happy to have shown mcdonald with us today. sean, welcome to the show. thank you very much. i a shawn, i'd like to begin by asking you to give our viewers a short overview of your life. you certainly have not had an easy time of things. the universe has not made life easy for you. tell us about why you've been arrested in the past. how long you've served in prison and where you serve that time. i grew up in south boston, the ghetto, the irish ghetto in boston. it's like

a lot of people know where it is. i guess some do some don't, but that's where i grew up. it wasn't for your place to grow up. everyone has some type of a trauma going on a life without 16, i started using drugs i saw using i v. harrowing. i was shooting harrow in my, i'm 16 years old and it was basically to kill all the pain that i had inside of me from all the trauma that i was dealing with. and unfortunately, that led me to a wrong path and i sided commit in crime. and i sat around banks. uh, 16 years old. by the time i was 20, i went to that the the f b. i died of me when i was 20 years old and i went to lewis barry penitentiary. i spent 10 years there. um after that i got off one night

and then i went back and spent 10 years in states system. and when i was the last barry parents had surgery us. it was one of the worst places i've ever been in my life 1st. like when i was going there, we gave me a lifted out of manchester, new hampshire. so we drove up the, the gods opened the doors, let us all out of the van and get on the airplane. but everyone was asking where they were going. and um, when i got to me, they like lewisburg unit. everybody in the van was like, oh oh my god, i was like like ask them if it's a gap or dependent century and i asked them into united states pilots actually, lewisburg. so everyone was telling me this in your young kid that's a very violent joint. you uh yeah, watch healthy. so you gotta make sure you take

a so don't tell people how much time you have because his life is don't like and see people go home and they would love the mess your time up and stuff like that. so i got another plane, i ended up going to oklahoma for glass vacation. uh, 2 weeks later, house phone back to pennsylvania. and i drove up to his prison and it was built like a castle. it still had a 100 foot smoke tower in the middle from when they use the heat, the prism a call. so as soon as i got off the bus why one of the cops it was a go, we just took a body out yesterday. mean somebody got married and i'm thinking with a, how am i the judge recommended that i go to fort devon's, which is it can be a low, medium, or with any type a,

the level the your on. you can go to 4th evans and it's like pretty much a medical joint and you all got to worry about stuff like that. but the feds override it and decided to send me to a penitentiary because i had a violent crime. while i was there, i realized that i was all by myself. it's like john said, and you know those guys from boston and they claim to like have my back and they all we are. they are all happy that i was there. but i had to show my paperwork for us to prove i was in or at the they give you a week to do that. i was fortunate enough to have a friend that knew we knew that i was good to go. i got my paperwork. i gave it to them, but like those incidents i ran into like this group that they call a dc black. they're a prison yang, and

a lot of them are what they call body being. it's now believe in is someone that rates somebody in prison and one of them asked me if i was a boy and he asked me what sexual like. he said in the sexual way and being a boy, somebody that gives himself up and acts as they do for the rest of the a bit. you know, and i decided that was gonna be that i was going to remain a man. and i had to go get a knife and i had unfortunately stabbed this person. it's not something i wanted to do. it's not who i am. um, i've never been a bias like that in my life. but i wasn't gonna let the other out happen. and i ended up going to shoot for 18 months on that.

and this is just like there's no a form in that prison. there's no, there's no like they have a drug program in the feds. and if you're in a penitentiary, you can do the drug program. you have to be eligible for a medium to do a drug program. and as a to year off the sentence. and you get to get a yeah, a halfway house to go home to we weren't eligible for that. and because i was in such a violent place, i couldn't keep myself out of trouble to get my point slowly to go to a medium because i always had to keep stand up for myself and defending myself the way i was. so i, i decided to make a change in my own life and i, um, i took off from boston and i came up to pittsville mass. i got myself and a half a house program that deals with mental health and drug addiction. and i've been out

of prison for 5 years now. i'm working on my ged and then i'm going to have to go to driving school and work on that because i never drove a car in my life cuz i spent my whole entire life in prison. i spent from 14 to 18 in juvenile from when i 1st started doing drugs and everything. and then i spent 18 to 20 in the county jail. and then i said 20 to 30 and the fads and the 30 to 40 in state. so i'm 43 years old right now, and i got a good amount of time out of prison going on for me. and i would like to keep it that way. a meant to that. one of the 1st things that i learned on my very 1st day in prison and you touched on this on your own is nobody cares about you. nobody is looking out for you. you have to think about your own nutrition,

exercise medical dental. but is that even really possible? is it possible to be healthy in prison? so tell us about your medical and dental care in prison. well, there was a time when i was lewisburg, when, when i was sitting in issue. and i had a bad stomach problem and i lost 20 pounds and it was really noticeable and i was throwing up. i have all types of like horrible symptoms. and they didn't care, they didn't do nothing for me. they would send me down to the infirmary. they would tell me they don't know what's wrong with you and they would send me back to my so where i'm logged out 23 hours a day. now at the time i still had people in my life, the log mean kid for me and with the f one me. so it took them to call steven lynch, who at the time was us and it tell him what was going on. he was himself boss and

also so he called the prison and he asked him what's going on, you know, taking care of this k, i heard he's very sick, blah blah, blah. and he, he lost 20 pounds and i guess he needs to be checked out. so immediately after that they started taking me off to the hospital, run me for das turns, or i had a bacterial infection called h for laurie from dirty trays. that is what they do with the trays in prison is they'll bring into the kitchen or wash them, but they really don't get washed, but they put them a stack, them all together right next to each other inside the washing machine and then the steam clean. but like it at, as lunchtime, if you have gladys that some of the time comes, you could have let it still on each right from lunch. so they were a clean,

they were it sanitary and you're right john, i very, it's not possible to stay healthy in there. that is absolutely right. i saw the same kinds of things, not to that scale, of course, but the same things that you did. okay, so my 1st full day in prison was fish day for lunch, but one of the other prisoners told me not to touch the fish because they called it sewer trout. when i got to the cafeteria, i saw these boxes that had written on them. alaskan cod product of china, not for human consumption feed use only. and sure enough, this was animal grayed food and in fact, this is the kind of food that we were fed every single day. it was meant for animals not for people. we were even once fed dog food by accident because it was ms. mark as taco meat and the tragedy there was that we didn't even realize it was done through. that's how bad the normal quality was. what was your experience in

prison with food? mine was exactly the same, the did you say give you the box it it comes in has a scale and crossbones, i suppose the causes cancer. and that's the only thing you can drink. we males is this juice that everyone is saying causes cancer. and so in the state system it is, you don't have somebody sending you money so you can get commissary yoga, like dive salvation, you're going to lose weight. there's no way you're going to be able to be healthy and work out because they don't. first off, they don't give you enough. they give you a little half scoop of gone a little half a scoop. uh um. let's say i

don't know a k, the low, small k to come with it and something the reason the call called on, which was a square piece of me that nobody knew what it was. and they serve that most of the time. you're exactly right about the fish doubt. every friday was fish. it was called fish friday. i didn't need it and it's just not for human consumption, but they don't care. the trays come pre packed, they give them to blocks, they pass them out like faces and didn't have a cafeteria job like fed did. they make it easy itself, so you just come out, get your tray, and then you're going yourself. so you get, have these tomato sauce, maybe a small cake and some call time thing. and it's gross. you can eat it. and the people that get commissary, they give all of their x rays. they don't have the that, you know,

they don't wanna do it because they don't. so they don't want to catch nothing. you know. and i don't know, i always felt like my parents when they were alive. these are things of the prism provides everything for you. so like i didn't send the money, is a prison and told them we feed them, we give him smooth his. we give him hygiene when they don't give me. none of that you get a pair of bobbles fall apart in a week and they don't feed you, you lose weight dice. 5 of age and every now you all have not home geez, i wish every night you go to bed. wait, stomach touching you back. and the quality of the food is just horrible. shawn, that's heart breaking. thank you. we're going to take a short break and when we come back, we're going to speak with sean mcdonalds, about the broader problems that american prisoners faced in every prison in america . the system is broken. and it seems that nobody in

a position of authority has any idea how to fix it. states of the. 2 2 2 2 2 of the them there was so pleased with their res. hi autumn, that it cannot be any cancellation, but typically those who have emails or something like that too. i don't want to insult anybody, but they've done this stupid. they simply more on the counseling russian using women's cancelling a great pause on the chest of humans. so in general the . 2 2 2 welcome back to the whistle blowers and john kerry onto we're speaking with

sean mcdonald about his experience in the american prison system. john, thanks again for being with us. thank you very much. sean, you were in 2 of the most dangerous and most high security prisons in america. tell us about security in places like those. what was life like on a daily basis and did you trust presented authorities to keep you safe? when i was in prison, i had no access to nothing to help me better myself. like there was no program and there was no work. there was no way to earn money. there was no way to do anything. um if you had mental health issues that they were again dealt with because they didn't have the problem, mental health staff, they didn't care about you. everybody works. the ceo's ceo's don't care about the convicts. so the nurses are with ceo's, if there is um,

mental health providers there with the ceo's so they don't probably medicate people . they don't probably help people like i told you people commit suicide all the time. these you can tell them the suicidal. if you do the torture you and i went from for years and due to the street, i didn't know what to do. it myself. i couldn't be around people. i went and got a head kind of as soon as i got out and i was so nervous and associates looking around, a people bumping into me. i'm not used to that. i couldn't even get through a haircut. and i went to my sister's house and she lives in the project. so she had a little porch outside and i used to always go out there to get away from everybody and sit there and it changes smoke cigarettes all day. and i wondered why that was so comfortable for me in one day it hit me. it's like,

this is like your old presence out. you know what i mean? you're all by itself in your own prison. and so, and that's where, you know, and that's what makes you comfortable. so that's why you keep running in the air, cuz you don't like being around people or running out it is outside. so it, it's, it, there's really no way to prepare someone who's going to prison on how to get themselves taken care of while they're in that the best. the best advice i can give is try to stay as healthy as you can. and i know that i know you can control that, but try and take care. you see the best you can because they're not gonna fix them . they're gonna pull them. i don't know that at have your family members call the prison as the family members putting grievances because they're

not doing the right things. they should be for people. i don't know what the answer is. i mean, it shouldn't be the way it is. i say that like i shouldn't as off for years in the view for which is what they found me guilty of institutionalize right. i've seen the last 4 years of my life, solitary confinement the something i had absolutely nothing to do with. and i had no control over the situation, even though i was never arrested for it. they couldn't even get probable cause. i also want to ask you about the absence of opportunities. you had no access to education, to counseling, to therapy, or to literally anything else to prepare you for life on the outside. in fact, you went directly from solitary confinement to freedom. how common was that and what you prisons do to prepare prisoners for life?

well, like i said, i had, i had h florey while i was sitting in the show in the fads, which is the whole, they called issue is 23. i'll walk down, you get an hour, they indicates dog candle. that's basically what they feel like a dog. you get one hour and a cage and all you can do is walk back and forth. if you even get that, if you not before in the morning and catch the size, you go on by the door and tell them you are rec and you've got no alarm clocks, no nothing. you're not getting right. right. but and i had h delore, my stomach was so bad, i was throwing up. i had diarrhea, everything was a mass. i lost 20 pounds. i was putting in all types of medical slips as the medical slip as the medical. so i was asking the nurses when

they came down, can you please tell me what's going on? am i gonna be going out for any test? does anybody know what's happened and nobody knew anything? it wasn't until stephen lynch called the prison system it's old and that he was concerned about my out that they started taking me the hospitals and they found out the problem. and they medicaid me, right. but i was lucky. everyone else in there. they didn't have that, like people lucky if they have anybody, they don't have people calling sanity so they can go get free medically like you should be able to get free and medically regardless like they. that's what medical should before, but they have for nothing they, they just collect debate jack and they go home and they, and they cost people the allies. and with me, it was the age flory that i had something else going on with me. i forget the name is a condition, but it was in my low of body and um,

it took months for that to get taken care of. uh, i had a hernia. um it took probably 3 years to get the operation. and i was like, you even did it i i was sick all the time. these i wasn't even right. i was in. i didn't have the fortune of somebody sending me money, so i get commissary. so i had the drake. and if you don't follow it, you again, you can bump into someone in the hallway and say, hey, excuse me, i'm sorry, i apologize if you don't say that, you could be walking the hallway. the next thing and nathan, you back is a person could feel like you this back to them. but back to medical, there was no matter who it was. absolutely no matter go. i was fortunate enough and i was in state just them. i didn't catch anything wrong with me,

like the 2 things that happened to me in the beds. nothing like that happened to me . i actually one time i caught cellulite as in my way, and i showed the nurse, and he gave me that by our eggs, which were, i was shocked. i barely never happens, but he was a good nurse and he ended up getting fired and walked off to compound. so i don't know why he must have did something in regards to mad. maybe use up and out. too many convicts. maybe he was enjoying where they want him to do, which is nothing. you know, that you would think in the present system that they would have problem medical and like things for you to do in order to get your life better. so you don't come back as while to say, this is a rate so low in massachusetts because people get out and they have no clue.

it's do it themselves. and they go back to drugs, you know, and then, and back in prison. i was fortunate enough to just call a call and and like i, i couldn't do it no more. it was tor jeremy. crazy time. no more. i couldn't use drugs or i was just tired. you know? so i ran away and i'm over here. if i for my life every day, well, god bless, i wish you the very, very best for an ard carrick is the former police commissioner of new york city. he found himself serving a prison term after a conviction for corruption. and when he got out of prison, he said this and forgive me, it's a little bit long quotes, don't promote yourself as a country of constitutionality and compassion. if you honestly believe that putting people in prison and treating them like animals is justified. stop all the heights that we live in a free and democratic society are used to ramble on about the same stuff. but now,

are we really a country that believes in fairness and compassion? i've met goodman yes. good men in prison who made mistakes out of stupidity or ignorance, greed, or just plain bad judgments. but they did not need to be sent to prison to be punished. 18 months for catching too many fish. 2 years for inflating income on a mortgage application. 3 months for selling a wells tooth on ebay. 15 years for a 1st time, non violent drug conspiracy in which no drugs were ever found or sees. there are thousands of people like these in our prisons today, costing american tax payers billions of dollars. when these individuals could be punished in smarter alternative ways, our courts are over punishing decent people who make mistakes and our prisons have no rewards or incentives for good behavior. in this alone,

criminal justice and prison systems contradict their own mission statement. and what i'd like to think our guest sean mcdonald for being with us today. and thank you to our viewers for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry. aku, please follow me on subsets at john kerry onto. we'll see you next time the. 2 2 2 2 2 the, the, the, the, the

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