the flood more complex might the present diff. let's stop without pleases desktop out of the i'm action or can say welcome back to going underground, broadcasting all around the world from the u. a. today mark 62 years since the u. k . u. s u m j lynn nelson mandela, and present between 62 and 1990. after c, i a covert operation in south africa, mondale or in 1997, said we know too well that all freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the palestinians. today is billions of dollars worth of weapons from the european union, the u. k. and principal sponsor of israel, the usa i dropped on gaza to exterminate palestinian superpowers, russia in china,

of focusing their intentions on a possible wider us israel. maybe nuclear war targets include 11 and syria human ends. iran, regardless of who wins november's us elections. joining me now from washington, dc 0 by the a member of the national policy council of the art of american institute. who am i thank so much for coming on. i should say we're recording this interview before the events of the weekend. tomorrow's also 79 years. as the u. s. a. designated and usually a bowman here rossimer. what do you think? do you think there are any messy attic elements in israel? the think that they get results to the nuclear weapons. a demo and bass will control the demona base a given how much they seem to be possibly losing, and a war and the anymore against lebanon, iran, yemen, syria, russia, china, who knows who else. so i think you're putting your finger exactly on this are fine prospects of where this could end. because right now we are set up in a confrontation after

a series of extremely provocative actions by the israeli government for the complete and total disregard for international law. complete a total disregard for any possibility of peace talks or temporary down the situation in the region. you'll see just a series of assassinations at this point and it's all leading us towards a major confrontation that is on, on consequences. i mean, certainly if this thing gets out of hand, it could lead not figuratively, but literally to the desk of millions of people in the region. and the question becomes, if at the end of all this is where i find myself back into a corner, what is the possibility of them using their weapons? i don't think that's the 3rd question. i mean there is a level of lack of rationality. and these really government so far, just to kind of appreciate where we are and why we're here. israel with rather burn the entire region to the ground that a lot cobblestones, basic human right along to live in freedom and dignity. that is why we're here. this has been the case for decades as an apartheid government is treated policy is

like garbage and denied in the most fundamental freedoms and insisted that they live a life without dignity or their life and be stolen and their water can be taking away. and when there was a natural reaction to that, this was not defending it, but just saying that this was a natural consequence of people being held without freedom for a very long time. and people kind of counter attack then as well, use that as justification to commit massacres and every bit of pressure that has built up towards ending israel's genocide and gaza. israel has responded to with further escalation. so we're not dealing with irrational government that is assigned to engage in a way where it wants to co exist, of people in the region. israel is insisting on regional dominance and if that means less killing and death in order to maintain that dominance, this is the path they've actually gone for. of course, what you said about israel, they're is not a view that's shared by any of the correspondents on the so called mainstream media networks in the united states and nato nation. capital is. but do you think there

is some kind of growing recognition of what you just said that seem to be doubts actually cost on the is right in the account of the image of sam's attack is if has well low lebanese resistance would attack arabs in the occupied the golan heights, this seems to be doubts about the sci fi deal that they stand there. the podium with the state department talking about after the, the u. s. u. k. u weapons, we used to kill the main negotiator for us to match the so high the, the by the ministrations been trumpeted. yeah, it does. the whole thing is, is kind of afraid you have a and is really government that so far has just so absolute and total in lack of interest in kind of settling the situation, right. we've had a serious, you know, we talked about the attack that took place and the goal and the goal heights occupied, going heights, syria and kids who were killed by that rocket,

which remains mysterious. we're not sure who lost it. we're not sure if it was an accident, we're not sure if it's some group that did not know how to unlock it, or if it's an error, it is really aren't doing this so that misfired or something. there's just no adequate information. and the one thing that we do know is that these really government lies constantly. we know that they have repeatedly lied about an endless set of issues to try to justify either ongoing occupation or to justify even further atrocity. we all remember with that when post in american alta 0 during was 3 in a box. it was killed initially, these really governments that, that it was, palestinians will killed her. and then finally they said ok, fine, we did it. but it was an accident and thorough investigation show that she was actually targeted by a sniper, which means she was deliberately sought by these running military. and you can go on with a 1000000 examples, including, by the way, the events that took place on october 7th. did there have been certain as this, what happened on october 7th, was not about that or not. these really governments engaged in inflammatory exaggerations as a means of testifying what was going to follow. and i think that this is very

similar that we are in a moment right now where there's this mysterious rocket, the kill 12 kids were playing soccer. and i think all is real thought this as a useful justification launched further regression that spread this more beyond because it feels like such a sympathetic incident that within america response. but ultimately, we know that israel does not care about the syrian kids and the goal highest, because a government that has killed 16000 policy and children and got up cannot possibly care about the lives of children. that's not a serious motivation. that's not something that actually comes into the tomorrow. calculus one is real, was about there at us, and they see this just simply as an opportunity to expand their aggressive action. and the question that remains is, what is the us doing for all of this? and it seems to be essentially giving as really green light. does this, terry are pushing the entire region to o'clock instead of doing what is just basic minimal, not just moral decency but strategic commonsense,

which is the thing that we need more stability in that region. that means reading in the country that is currently engaged, identified, and that has the we have this, this potential for our regional explosion beyond anything that we've ever imagined . because this genocide is not, has not been stopped and nobody's doing anything meaningful to actually put it to an end. why do you say seems to be a green light? because that's, it seems to be a speculation by some critics that you hear on the circle, mainstream media when to most of the world, rather than blaming israel. and i mean, i'll give a then yeah, i was playing a master hand. most of late here. every move he makes a good puts him further and further away from prison where he would go for corruption and it isn't really his room doing this, is it, it is the united states doing this? yes or no?

no way. i think the united states, obviously israel and nothing yahoo would not be able to do anything that he's doing without full of us backing. and that has been fundamentally the problem here. the issue is what, what is the motivation on the american side? is it just the default towards deferring to israel, allowing them to call the soft waves, the sorry, on what you saw in congress, the 52 of ations for that. and yeah, there isn't a clear that the entire congress except with a few hon. exceptions wants to exterminate all the palestinians. yes, i, i don't. i mean again, the fact of what you're saying is correct. right. they are standing up and applauding a work criminal who is engaged in genocide requirements and got it there. they're putting these words. yeah. and he, yes, ma'am, he says, more or less that the extermination developed in people is what's in school. i think the people that cert and the american congress are operating under an outdated mindset. it is a default that the arabs are the other, including the palestinians, and that israel are the ones who are like us. and there has been extensive

influence from these around lobby for many, many years and in america. so part of this is about domestic politics. it's about the financial influence of groups like a pack or spending a $100000000.00 and the selection detroit this way, congressional seats, and in their favor. they successfully asked it jamal omen recently, who was a critic of his ready policy by dumping something like $15000000.00 into his race. you know, and supported his opponents in augusta. so there is that aspect of it and there is also the aspect to the fact that a significant portion of the american population is about the question. and for them there is a may see how to do this on. however, a religious duty to support israel right or wrong. and that motivates in arkansas, this is that makes that who are always more interested in their own political power and maintaining their position in congress. and they are in promoting actually the policy. and i think the best part of the calculus here is that what we're trying to back effectively, the american political establishment is to stop looking for your own personal

narrow interest and think about the field of the world and what is right and what is wrong. and let's pretend smooth, sorry, that is what they say. yes, i'm would say they've come all there is doesn't even need the millions of dollars from a pack. because actually these people believe in the phase of the world, which is that the palestinians will be exterminated. what do you make of lincoln immediately saying? yeah, this was definitely 11 and that to killed the arabs. of course a and cnn they were is really somehow i was blinking and lloyd austin immediately saying, well whatever happens in baby doesn't really matter. and, you know, violating evading and ask space whatever, at least they imply those things. yeah, this is a subtle difference that i think is, is where i'm heading on. there's a different between having disregard for the lives of power stands and lebanese, and others, and actively wanting them to be exterminated. so i think it would be a stretch to say that people and the american political establishment actively want to see the extermination of almost been here. but there is

a level of disregard that they're watching israel do it, and they don't care. and that ought to be infuriating, and it puts, you know, throws all of the slogan, hearing about the american administration about putting human rights 1st and an international law based order. and all of this nonsense. it's just, it's almost right. these are people who are interested in their own power in spreading the power of united states. and right now, they feel that between their own domestic political interest in their view, by the way mistakenly i should say that they ought to continue supporting what israel dot. that is an outdated view based on the way politics used to be. there's a significant shift in american public opinion right now. young people throughout the country oppose what israel's doing. they want to cut off military funding for israel. they want an end to this genocide and a ceasefire. and god, and the political establishment is not responsive to the shift. i think it whenever you have shift happen in a country, the last part that actually changes is the political establishment. so we're beginning to see the rules of some change. and i think it's going to have to be

about politicians. we support the general dentist out of policy. paying a political call comes election day in order for them to realize that they have to correct force. and until that happens, at this point, they're just sticking their heads of the sam. young people get their information through social media. they don't rely on legacy appropriate media. and that's why they get information that is actually accurate. and it leads to the obvious conclusion of israel isn't a part time state is engaging in genocide and there should not be another penny spent on a country that behaves that way. we should be, have complete and total cut off of weapons and money to israel and tell israel starts behaving like in our country rather than a real estate. we have to stop saying that israel gets to be a country that is above the line above any rules and does what it wants. and once that change happens, then we can actually see a problem clicked for a better future for both israelis and palestinians. and that would then hold us policy in line with a rhetoric that we're constantly proud of about talking about freedom and democracy and human rights and all that nonsense. that just has not really effectively looked

uh, you know, like it has any templates to the reality of american policy. the contradiction has to be resolved. rather i'll stop you the more from the member, the national policy council of the art of american institute. after this break the hello and welcome to the cross, the full board. here we discussed some real in the what the this think of the continental box. oh send we and it's around with the rest of the world. we're going to relate with the wind in terms of donations on, in terms of tray after some months, define what she wants for lifted assets not define are soft comp,

africa must define ourselves critically. the cause of your guys, no choice but to move forward. forward. shoot you the the welcome back to going undergrad. i was still here with the arab americans to do national policy council member omar bother. while you were talking about the cognitive dissonance, i suppose, between the those who govern and the government in the united states. k of the polls show that the american people want to seize 5 regardless of the applause war netanyahu. but then what will lee leads class do in your country? will they crack down even harder than they already have done? i saw the pepper spray at the demonstrations against netanyahu's visit when he gave a is speech to both houses of congress we saw across the campus protest and the heavy ended police violence. some people invoking can stage and we have no yeah

it's, it's a really simple chapter in american history right now that i have no doubt that future generations will look back in the same way that we look back at many previous sample chapters of american history in which the concepts of this country has stood up to say no to existing policy. and they've been faced with the repression. and this is a repeat of that. you know, we have this fantasy that we're past that period whenever you talk about historical atrocities. whenever you talk about slavery and the genocide of native americans and segregation of the internment of japanese americans and the vietnam war and the list goes on and on, there's always the sense that these are things that surely we know better now. and if they were to happen again, we would not react to them the same way. and yet, here we are once again, in a particularly ugly and distasteful phase, which we are watching. palestinians get star to death and murder in the 10s of thousands and gossip. all of it funded by americans money and supported with

american policy and diplomatic protection for israel. and the people who are standing up to that young people on college campuses who are raising their voices and saying no to this are indeed the boys are other boys have confidence in this country. and yes, we are stuck in this really bizarre reality where the political leave. i mean, you, you may have even seen it when they were applying this in the, out a form, you know, terminal was attacking american college students about their protests and you had american lawmakers applauding a board work from another who is attacking their own students. it's such a ugly and the states were reality that exists right now. and it's you would want to shake these people and wake them up now to say, don't you see what is happening? i don't just see how history is going to look back at this moment. but unfortunately, it looks like the, the way we evolve is not as seamless as we would like to imagine. and it really, it's unfortunately will be a lot more in depth incarnate before this country comes to a census and realize that we are heading down the wrong path. i've got

a corrective need, it's, but it's always been about people rising up and demanding that change. people have never changed their policies from the top down. it is always the from the bottom up when people have confidence that made it untenable for governments, it continued on with policies that are completely monsters and indefensible that we've achieved. changed to that. yes. and then yeah, who said that the demonstrations were somehow involved with the indian government resident of how a trump campaign was m l a russian except the time is all you'd be running out doing all of this, isn't it? yeah, i mean, what do you think? do you think uh, nothing you know was got the green light when he met with them all hours and joe biden on that visit to congress. he also went to see trump and murray lago, the green light from him, and then there was just before the spade of assassinations. there was the head of the c. i a meeting in room with the head the most that, i mean is this a concerted? it attempt at whitening the war even as the is it blinking? who knows?

it runs the white house. it's moving actually a denies it to the circle, mainstream media a. yeah, there's a, i think one of the now who's doing here is calling the american administration's love. he understands that the bottom administration would rather calm things down. they're not interested in a regional conflict, but he also knows that the bottom ministration is never going to do anything meaningful to hold his row back. so basically they have meetings and they have binding the ministrations as we would rather, you not escalate and maybe don't want. why do you think that's the case when we buy the ministration is in the receipt or so much money from a pack? i mean, they not being truly show you about it before and before november. be quite good for the buy the ministration to c, k us warfare and catastrophe here and somehow make a they've come on our system kind of war time lead or is, would it be good for the v? what if you listen to the contrast and speeches of a sort of the way trump has been talking? trump has insist that the reason why there is always chaos is because he's not

present at the because bindings is, is the one who's president and if it were him, you can achieve call. and i think that instigated, i mean, you can see it in the shifting the way the by that was talking about what is happening in, in gaza from the beginning until later on when it was clear that there was significant public discontent with it. at 1st he did what every american politician does, israel has the right to defend itself, which related to us, what they're doing. and then as an opposition started building and we saw that this thing was not actually resonating with the american public. the public opinion, especially on the democratic side, is bracing with his policy by that sort of talking about how is real engaging and indiscriminate in bombing and gaza. there some people said that as a gas and all that was dumped as $12000.00 pound bottom shipment, it's the j can be a gap is cannot be a gap because it's not a one off. there's been a repeated powder of bite in raising objections, which means that at least rhetorically, he's uncomfortable with the fact that the us as the, as fully endorsing everything that, as well as doing, can you meet 6 wiley's still funds of agendas as precisely, i guess,

as we're not disagreeing here, did he's uncomfortable with it but not willing to go as far as to actually who has just what he wrote, who can do it. i don't understand. okay, is about his rhetoric and so on, while the heads are being dismembered of children and goes about his bones which, which tells you what the current, which is what i'm trying to elude to hear the dynamic is, is that nothing yahoo is able to disregard the objections from united states about his policies, because he knows that the, by the ministration likes the backbone to stand up and if any help in any meaningful sense. so who cares to your point? well cares if they're telling him that he's the top things down and not bump a route to not look for us to waste with the wrong. if at the end of the day, the us is going to keep handing out the money and the weapons for his role to do whatever it was, that's why we're here. and the call is it's, it's an appeal to the american political establishment to understand the folly of their approach. this idea of you can see regional peace and stability through just

giving israel whatever it wants to never questioning it and never challenging it. that has not work, that has been a recipe for amulets, regional conflict, and death. and frankly, one that puts even us interest in the region in harm's way. and if we are serious about being interested in a more stable region in the region in which the us can have better relations with, with the region and saw you have to have towards the escalation, that means reading nothing yahoo and renamed that apartheid genocidal government in putting a stop to their behavior by saying not another penny, as long as you behaved that way. and in the last term, like in the short term, you need that these fire and the lot are you cannot achieve regional piece without addressing the issue of palestinians being denied freedom. okay, well i don't, i don't think there's going to be any of that happening because neither the 2 parties are going to do that. so how will the american, the leads and how will the american people respond when us assets are now targeted? because obviously under international law, lebanon and iran can now respond,

what happens to all these us base is dosage around west asia, when they start getting attacked. and us service men and women who stop getting killed on a scale much larger than that by on sort of allow from human or that is a horrifying prospect that is effectively what we're looking at is the possibility of a major regional war that iran is engaged in directly that the us, as indeed has been directly ad, who knows what the consequences of that will be. it has nothing but death and destruction was completely uncertain. walter and future about the world. will it mean that the political class has double down? just saying what, what will the reaction be? will they double down then on their zionism, is it, well we've, we've seen this happen time and time again. we've seen it and the, the, the history of vietnam is very tight. i think initially and the pace or something like that, there is an effective to double down and rally around the flag and push even harder and stronger is only in the water when this ends up being costly enough or attracted way does the us realize that things maybe have been done the wrong way.

it's a 20 years for us to realize that we've made a mistake and get us down to pull out only from the top of on to come back and take power again. unfortunately, if, if history is the teacher, there's any lessons is that people don't react well to military confrontations, whitley wiser and commer minds don't always rate those moments. people who are calling for retaliation that respond to violence and strength. those tend to be the people who are right to the top and take the range of things. but as this becomes a protracted problem, that's where we might see the potential for a shift in policy. and it would be incredibly tragic not to learn that lesson sooner to say before things escalate to that point before things get completely out of hand, we often have the foresight to see where this is heading and to put a stop to it before it ends there and to look for, for me to put the escalation, the v is view as well. no. did you mention vietnam which of course the united states last obviously off to huge amounts of college in the endo china. what sort of television is there in washington? and do they even know that there was a badging declaration uniting

a mouse with the piano and 5 to and the p f l b, and all the other palestinian groups that all of these people were in moscow that there, there were a huge configuration of changes going on in the global south as regard support for the palestinians struggle. and i'm sure they're aware of the fact of how this is changing on the global front of that particular gear. and there's a question of how meaningful that specific our agreement is when it comes to health any infections. because ultimately the policy and authority that exists in the west bank exists because the us and israel allowed to exist it. is it at any point that the us and there's no cut off support for it? i think that authority with lots. so it's to, you know, to say that there's going to be made meaningful. we're going to need to come up. there are limits to that because they have patrons who are on the opposite sides of, of this wally. but at least i saw at least we saw the head of floss, a move on the database because how many of which is how long would never normally

have ever expected. anyone who's followed what's been happening in this region? yeah, that's, i think some of that is, is about the domestic domestic consumption more than anything else. they feel that they have to make certain statements, but unfortunately, i think we're stuck between um, you know, a rock and a hard place of policy and leadership is not looking particularly optimistic anywhere at this point. and certainly with the policy and authority, there is a sense of evidence that what is the point of an authority was only function right now is effectively to make the occupation easier for his route to run administrative tasks. and the policy in areas throughout the schools are collect garbage, but not really being part of any meaningful effort towards liberating palestine from israeli occupation. that's not on the table. all the fall for it is, you know, piece talks and whatever like that. it's all in, in the sense that somehow we can just talk our way out of the situation that rent when it clearly requires a more cohesive strategy. and that authority is beholden to. um, you know, if, if,

if they were to challenges around meaningfully that housing authority would instantly cease to exist because it is real cuts off and the support. and if they treat the current housing authority, the way they treated it when it was under yes or our thoughts. and remember that the statement of our compounds in the killing of, you know, they actually embedded his compound on multiple occasions. that's when you put yourself in that situation under occupation and your existence depends on the occupier, is allowing you to exist and live and have the privilege that you do. that is not a recipe for a meaningful leadership that can actually lead the palestinians out of the situation. they are of utility reflected by old polls in palestinian territories, occupied and unoccupied. so do you think it will be though, through badging or moscow that this is solved now that washington is so clearly part of the war, the why the war that all these other countries are now arranged against? yeah, again, it is very, very difficult to imagine what the future holds right now. it's an, i don't know what that path even looks like. what does it mean when you have israel

as a regional power in the middle east, that is backed by the world superpower in the united states, giving an unlimited military weapons to do whatever it wants. and it's really the nuclear on state. i don't know how this ends. well, i don't know what a solution even looks like at this point unless either the us reins is real and in some way. and since that's not on the table in the short term, then we are headed towards almost ltd complex. and we have to see what that fix up on the other side of just until that incarnate that i just wish we had the foresight to work our way out. but it's, well, i guess we'll have to wait and see how other powers react. and what kind of constraints they may be able to introduce in order to hold us back from the break about or thank you. the thank you and that sort of the show of continued condolences to those very, very you k u. s. u armed genocide and gaza will be back on saturday with a senior u. s. officer to whistle the who held 2 of the highest interested leadership

positions in the us air force and pentagon. the claims and names and the legend is rarely spy of the highest levels of u. s. government still than even touched by real life social media. if it's not sensitive in your country and to our channel going under guarantee hon dot com to let you know the episodes of going on the ground, see, is that the, [000:00:00;00] the blue gray. so when you hit away this on the line, you more interested in the split changing age of changing the last place,

tim will actually need to look for the end of the was a shame. but i see it was a shame, but i see up with all my games with a see. yeah. let's you should build this morning. you've already i'm with you remember share that was missing here on this quarter. was that if it's a group of what i need to listen to us, the great thing is that it does look like at least you get this thing. what could this now there's not because you have us doesn't wish us to show my product with them. no more comfortable this one, chest for chills. if the stump that's in

the the hello and welcome to cross talk on peter a little here we discuss them. we'll news. is the prisoner exchange for 10 settlement other outstanding issues such as ukraine. and why is the united states sending up low tele to protect israel after israel carries out? assassinations, discuss these issues and more. i'm joined by my guess george, send me while we in budapest, is a broadcast or at the go, which means out on youtube in logos and and assemble, we have peaks or a month. he is a historian and political commentator or a gentleman cross that rules that affect, that means you can change up any time you want and i always appreciate it. i always