so believe that we were exchanged upon arrival in moscow, the president met us personally. it was an unforgettable feeling. is not every day the president personally shakes, you'll have it for a. yeah, direct testimony there to the roughly news agency from the knife released the t. okay, we are going underground enrollment squared options, talking the current knife edge prices in the middle east. and it's like think of sucking and even more regional actors by the time action or can say, welcome back to going underground, broadcasting all around the world from the u. a today mark 62 years since the u. k

. u s. u m. j lynn nelson mandela and present between 621990 after c i a covert operations of africa, mondale or in 1997, said we know too well that all freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the palestinians. today is billions of dollars worth of weapons from new york in union . the u. k. and principal sponsor of israel usa. i dropped on gaza to exterminate palestinian superpowers rusher and china of focusing their intentions on a possible. why do you as israel maybe nuclear war targets include 11 and syria? yes'm and ends iran, regardless of who wins november's us electrons joining me now from washington, dc. so well by that a member of the national policy council of the art of american institute. so much thanks so much for coming on. i should say we're recording this interview before the events of the weekend. tomorrow's also 79 years of the usa, designated and usually a bowman hiroshima. what do you think? do you think there are any messy attic elements in israel?

the think that they get results to the nuclear weapons. it demona based will control the demona base a given how much they seem to be possibly losing, and a war and the anymore against lebanon, iran, yemen, syria, russia, china, who knows who else? now i think you're putting your finger exactly on this r 5 plastics of where this could and because right now we are set up in a compensation after a series of extremely provocative actions by the israeli government for the complete and total disregard for international law. complete a total disregard for any possibility or peace tasks or temporary down the situation in the region. mean with seeing just a series of assassinations at this point. and it's all leading us towards a major confrontation that is on consequences. i mean, certainly, if this thing gets out of hand, it could lead not figuratively, but literally to the desk of millions of people in the region. and the question

becomes, is at the end of all this, israel by themself backed into a corner. what is the possibility of them using nuclear weapons? i don't think that's the 3rd question. i mean there is a level of lack of rationality. and these really government so far, just to kind of appreciate where we are and why we're here. israel with rather burn the entire region to the ground that a lot cobblestones, basic human right along to live in freedom and dignity. that is why we're here. this has been the case for decades as an apartheid government that is treated policy is like garbage and denied in the most fundamental freedoms and insisted that they live a life without dignity or their life and be stolen and their water can be taking away. and when there was a natural reaction to that, this was not defending it, but just saying that this is a natural consequence of people being held without freedom for a very long time. and people kind of counter attack then as well, use that as justification to commit massacres and every bit of pressure that was built up towards ending israel's genocide and gaza. israel has responded to with further escalation. so we're not dealing with irrational government that is

assigned to engage in a way where it wants to co exist as an equal the region is relative insisting on regional dominance. and if that means less killing and death in order to maintain that dominance, this is the path of actually gone for, of course, what you said about israel. there is not a view that shed by any of the correspondents on the so called mainstream media networks in the united states and nato nation. capital is. but do you think there is some kind of growing recognition of what you just said? that seemed to be doubts actually cost on the is reading the account of the much out sounds. attack is if has well low lebanese resistance would attack arabs in the occupied the golan heights. there seems to be doubts about the sci fi deal that they stand there. the podium of the state department talking about after the, the u. s. u. k. u weapons we used to kill the main negotiator for. i'm us.

that's the so high the, the by the ministrations been trumpeted. yeah, the whole thing is, is kind of a charade. you have a and it's really government that so far has just so absolute and total in lack of interest in kind of settling the situation. right. we've had a serious, you know, we talked about the attack that took place and the goal and the goal heights occupied, going heights, syria and kids who were killed by that rocket, which remains mysterious, were not for who lost it. we're not sure if it was an accident, we're not sure if it's some group that did not know how to iraq, if or if it's an error, it is really aren't doing this so that misfired or something. there's just no adequate information. and the one thing that we do know is that these really government lives constantly. we know that they have repeatedly lied about an endless set of issues to try to justify either ongoing occupation or to justify even further atrocity. we all remember with that when post in american, all to 0 during the 3 in a box, it was kill initially,

these really governments that, that it was, palestinians will killed her. and then finally they said okey fine, we did it, but it was an accident. and thorough investigation show that she was actually targeted by a sniper with me. she was deliberately sought by these running military. and you can go on with a 1000000 examples, including by the way, the events that took place on october 7th. they're a bit uncertain as if what happened on october 7th was not about a bad enough. these really governments engaged in inflammatory exaggerations as a means of testifying what was going to follow. and i think that this is very similar that we are in a moment right now where there's this mysterious rocket secure 12 kids were playing soccer. and i think all is real thought this as a useful justification launched further regression that spread this more beyond because it feels like such a sympathetic incident that within merits or response. but ultimately, we know that israel does not care about the syrian kits in the gall heights because a government that has killed 16000 policy. and so the don't possibly care about the lives of children. that's not

a serious motivation. that's not something that actually comes into the tomorrow. calculus one is real, was about there at us, and they see this just simply as an opportunity to expand their aggressive action. and the question that remains is, what is the us doing for all of this? and it seems to be essentially giving as really green light. does this, terry are pushing the entire region 2 o'clock instead of doing what is just basic minimal, not just moral decency but strategic commonsense, which is the thing that we need more stability in that region. that means reading in the country that is currently engaged, identified, and that has the we have this, this potential for our regional explosion beyond anything that we've ever imagined . because this genocide is not, has not been stopped and nobody's doing anything meaningful to actually put it to an end. why do you say seems to be a green light? because that's, it seems to be a speculation by some critics that you hear on the circle,

mainstream media when to most of the world, rather than blaming israel. and i mean, i'll give you that new i was playing a master hand. most of really here, every move he makes a good puts him further and further away from prison where he would go for corruption and it isn't really his room doing this, is it, it is the united states doing this? yes or no, no way. i think united states, obviously israel and nothing yahoo would not be able to do anything that he's doing with the full of us backing. and that has been fundamentally the problem here. the issue is what, what is the motivation on the american side? is it just the default towards deferring to israel, allowing them to call the soft waves, the sorry, on what you saw in congress of 52 of ations for that. yeah, there isn't a clear that the entire congress, except with a few hon. exceptions wants to exterminate all the palestinians. yeah, i don't. i mean, again, the facts of what you're saying is correct. right. they are standing up and

applauding a work criminal who is engaged in just out of the violence and god that they're, they're putting these words. yeah. and he just says, he says more or less that the extermination developed in, in people is what's in school. i think the people that cert and the american congress are operating under an outdated mindset. it is a default that the arabs are the other, including the palestinians, and that israel are the ones who are like us. and there has been extensive influence from these around lobby for many, many years in in america. so part of this is about domestic politics. it's about the financial influence of groups like a pack for spending a $100000000.00 and the selection detroit this way, congressional seats, and in their favor. they successfully asked that demo omen recently, who was a critic of his ready policy by dumping something like $15000000.00 into his race. you know, and sort of his opponents in augusta. so there is that aspect of it and there is also the aspect to the fact that a significant portion of the american population is evangelical christians. and for

them there is a masonic view this on, however, a religious duty to support israel right or wrong. and that motivates american politics, is that makes that who are always more interested in their own political power and maintaining their positions in congress than they are in promoting actually the policy. and i think the best part of the capital is here, is that what we're trying to back effectively, the american political establishment is to stop looking for your own personal narrow interest and think about the fate of the world and what is right and what is wrong and it's free tense move, sorry, that is what they say. yes, i'm would say they've come all there is doesn't even need the millions of dollars from a pack. because actually these people believe in the phase of the world, which is that the palestinians will be exterminated. what do you make of lincoln immediately saying? yeah, this was definitely 11 and that to a killed the arabs. of course a and cnn. they were his riley somehow it was blinking and lloyd austin immediately

saying, well whatever happens in baby, it doesn't really matter and, you know, violating ranging in space whatever, at least they imply those things. yeah, this is a subtle difference that i think is, is where i'm heading on. there's a different between having disregard for the lives of power stands and lebanese, and others, and actively wanting them to be exterminated. so i think it would be a stretch to say that people in the american political establishment actively wants to see the extermination of problems to them. but there is a level of disregard that they're watching israel do it, and they don't care. and that ought to be infuriating, and it puts, you know, throws all of the slogan, hearing about the american administration about putting human rights 1st and an international law based order and all of this nonsense. it's just, it's all this rate. these are people who are interested in their own power in spreading the power of united states. and right now, they feel that between their own domestic political interest in their view, by the way mistakenly i should say that they ought to continue supporting what israel does. that is an outdated view based on the way politics used to be. there's

a significant shift in american public opinion right now. young people throughout the country oppose what israel is doing. they want to cut off military funding for israel. they want an end to this genocide and a ceasefire. and god, and the political establishment is not responsive to the shift. i think it, whenever you have shifts happen in a country. the last part that actually changes is the political establishment. so we're beginning to see the rules of some change. and i think it's going to have to be about politicians. we support the general dentist out of policy paying a political call comes election day in order for them to realize that they have to correct for us until that happens at this point. they're just sticking their heads up with that young people get their information through social media. they don't rely on legacy appropriate media, and that's why they get information that is actually accurate. and it leads to the obvious conclusion. israel is an apartheid state is engaging in genocide and there should not be another penny spence on a country that behaves that way. we should be,

have complete and total cut off of weapons and money to israel and tell israel starts behaving like a normal country rather than a real estate. we have to stop saying that israel gets to be a country that is above the line above any rules and does what it wants. and once that change happens, then we can actually see a problem clicked for a better future for both as realism palestinians. and that would then move us policy in line with a rhetoric that we're constantly proud of about talking about freedom and democracy and human rights. and all that nonsense, that just has not really effective. we looked uh, you know, like it has any templates to the reality of american policy. the contradiction has to be resolved. rather i'll stop you the more from the member of the national policy council of the art of american institute after this break, the,

what is part of the, the employee would post that isn't the defense you of us input in the word or is it something deeper more complex might be present. let's stop without collisions. desktop product. the welcome back to going undergrad. i was still here with the out of american is to do national policy council member omar bother. while you were talking about the cognitive dissonance, i suppose, between the those of government, the government in the united states, k of the polls show that the american people want to seize 5 regardless of the applause war netanyahu. but then, what will the elite class do in your country? will they crack down even harder than they already have done?

i saw the pep a spray at the demonstrations against netanyahu's visit when he gave a is speech to both houses of congress we saw across the campus protests and the heavy ended police violence. some people invoking ken stage and we had no yeah it's, it's a really a shameful chapter in american history right now that i have no doubt that future generations will look back in the same way that we look back at many previous simple chapters of american history. in which the concept of this country has stood up to say no to existing policy. and they've been faced with the repression. and this is a repeat of that. you know, we have this fantasy that we're past that period whenever you talk about historical atrocities. whenever you talk about slavery and the genocide of native americans and segregation of the, in terms of japanese americans and the vietnam war and the list goes on on, there's always the sense that these are things that surely we know better now. and if they were to happen again, we would not react to them the same way. and yet,

here we are once again in a particularly ugly and distasteful phase in which we are watching. palestinians get starved to death and murder in the 10s of thousands and gossip. all of it funded by americans money and supported with american policy and diplomatic protection for israel. and the people who are standing up to that young people on college campuses who are raising their voices and saying no to this are indeed the boys are other boys have confidence in this country. and yes, we are stuck in this really bizarre reality where the political leave. i mean, you, you may have even seen it when they were applying this in the, out a form, you know, colonel was attacking american college students about their protests and you had american lawmakers applauding april and work from another who is attacking their own students. it's such a ugly and the states were reality that exists right now. and if you would want to shake these people and wake them up now to say, don't you see what is happening?

i don't just see how history is going to look back at this moment. but unfortunately, it looks like the, the way we evolve is not as seamless as we would like to imagine. and it really, it's unfortunately will be a lot more in depth incarnate before this country comes to a census and realize that we are heading down the wrong path. i've got a corrective need, it's, but it's always been about people rising up and demanding that change. people have never changed their policies from the top down. it is always see from the bottom up when people have confidence that made it accountable for governments that continued on with policies that are completely monsters and indefensible that we've achieved . changed to that. yes. and then yeah, who said that the demonstrations were somehow involved with the indian government regiment of how trump campaign was m l. a russian. yeah. except the time is all you'd be running out doing all of this, isn't it? yeah, i mean, what do you think? do you think uh, nothing you know was got the green light when he met with them all hours and joe biden on that visit to congress. he also went to see trump and murray lago about

the green light from him. and then there was just before the spade of assassinations, there was the head of the c. i a meeting in room with the head of most that, i mean, is this a concerted? it attempt at whitening the war even as the is it blinking? who knows? it runs the white house, it's moving actually a denies it to the circle, mainstream media. yeah, there is a, i think one of the all who is doing here is calling the american administration's love. he understands that the bottom administration would rather calm things down. they're not interested in a regional conflict, but he also knows that the body of ministration is never going to do anything meaningful to hold his road back. so basically they have meetings and they have by an administration says we would rather you not escalate and maybe don't want, why do you think that's the case when we, by the ministration is in the receipt or so much money from a pack? i mean, they are not being totally sure about it before and before november. be quite good for the, by the ministration to see chaos warfare and catastrophe here and somehow make of

they've come out of harrison. so i'm kind of what time leader is, would it be good for the v? what if you listen to the contrast and, and speeches of a sort of the way trump has been talking, trump has insisted that the reason why there is always chaos is because he's not present at the because bindings is, is the one is pregnant. and if it were him, he can achieve call and i think that instigated, i mean you can see it in the shifting the way the by that was talking about what is happening in, in gaza from the beginning until later on when it was clear that there was significant public discontent with it. at 1st he did what every american politician does is real, has the right to defend itself with the land drops what they're doing. and then as the opposition started building and we saw that this thing was not actually resonating with the american public. the public opinion, especially on the democratic side, is bracing with this policy by that started talking about how is really engaging in the discriminant in bombing and gaza. there's some people said that was a gas and all that was dumped as 12000 pound bottom shipment. it's the j can be

a got, it cannot be a gap because it's not a one off. there's been a repeated powder of binding raising objections, which means that at least rhetorically, he's uncomfortable with the fact that the us to see it as fully endorsing everything that as well as doing new email 6. wylie still funds the janice as precisely, i guess as they're not disagreeing here, did, he's uncomfortable with it but not willing to go as far as to actually who has just what he wrote. who can do it. i don't understand are located is about his rhetoric and so on, while the heads are being dismembered of children and goes about his bones which, which tells you what the current, which is what i'm trying to elude to hear the dynamic is, is that nothing? yeah. how is able to disregard the objections from united states about his policies? because he knows that the, by the ministration likes the backbone to stand up and if any help in any meaningful sense. so who cares to your point? who cares what they're telling him, that he's the top things down and not bump a route to not look for us to wasted with the wrong. if at the end of the day,

the us is going to keep handing out the money and the weapons for his job to do whatever it was, that's why we're here. and the call is it's, it's an appeal to the american political establishment to understand the folly of their approach. this idea that you can see regional peace and stability through just giving israel whatever it wants to never questioning it and never challenging it. that has not work, that has been a recipe for amulets, regional conflict, and death. and frankly, one that puts even us interest in the region in harm's way. and if we are serious about being interested in a more stable regions in a region in which the us can have better relations with, with the region and saw you have to have towards the escalation, that means reading nothing yahoo and renamed that apartheid genocidal government. and putting a stop to their behavior by saying not another penny, as long as you behaved that way. and in the long term, like in the short term, you need that these fire and the lot are you cannot achieve regional piece without addressing the issue of palestinians being denied freedom. okay, well i don't,

i don't think there's going to be any of that happening because neither the 2 parties are going to do that. so how will the american, the leads and how will the american people respond when us assets are now targeted? because obviously under international law, lebanon and iran can now respond, what happens to all these u. s. bases dosage around west asia when they start getting attacked, and us service in men and women who stop getting killed on a scale much larger than that by on. so allow from human that is a horrifying prospect that is effectively what we're looking at is the possibility of a major regional war that the ron is engaged. been directly that the us, as indeed has been directly ad, who knows what the consequences of that will be. it has nothing but death and destruction was completely uncertain, walter and future, but for it really means that the political class has double down. just saying what, what will the reaction be? will they double down then on their zionism, is that why we've, we've seen this happen time and time again? we've seen it and the, the,

the history of vietnam is very tight. i think initially in the face of something like that, there is an incentive to double down and rally around the flag and push even harder and stronger is only in the water when this ends up being costly enough or attracted way does the us realize that things maybe have been done the wrong way. it took 20 years for us to realize that we've made a mistake and our gas down to pull out only from the top of on to come back and take power again. unfortunately, if, if history is the teachers with any lessons, is that people don't react well to military confrontations quickly, wiser and calmer minds don't always rate. in those moments people who are calling for retaliation that respond to violence and strength. those tend to be the people who are right to the top and take the range of things. but as this becomes a protracted problem, that's where we might see the potential for a shift in policy. and it would be incredibly tragic not to learn that lesson sooner to say before things escalate to that point before things get completely out of hand, we often have the foresight to see where this is heading and to put

a stop to it before it ends there and to look for, for me to put the escalation, the v is view as well. no. did you mention vietnam which of course the united states last obviously off to huge amounts of college in the endo china. what sort of television is there in washington? and do they even know that there was a badging declaration uniting a mouse with the piano and 5 to and the p f l b, and all the other palestinian groups that all of these people were in moscow that there, there were a huge configure to of changes going on in the global south as regard support for the palestinian struggle, the sort they're aware of the fact of how this is changing on the global front of that particular gear. and there's a question of how meaningful that specific or agreement is when it comes to palatinate factions. because ultimately the policy and authority that exists in the west bank exists because the us and israel allowed to exist. it is at any point that the us and israel cut off support for it. i think that authority with lots. so

it's to, you know, to say that there's going to be made meaningful. we're going to need to come up. there are limits to that because they have patrons who are on the opposite sides of, of this really, but at least the so at least we saw the head of a flat a more on the database because how many of which is how low would never normally have ever expected anyone who's followed what's been happening in this region? yeah, it's, i think some of that is, is about the domestic domestic consumption more than anything else. they feel that they have to make certain statements, but unfortunately, i think we're stuck between um, you know, a rock and a hard place of policy and leadership. it's not looking particularly optimistic anywhere at this point. and certainly with the policy and authority, there is a sense of evidence that what is the point of an authority was only function right now is effectively to make the occupation easier for israel to run administrative tasks. and the policy in areas throughout the schools are collect garbage, but not really being part of any meaningful effort towards liberating palestine from israeli occupation. that's not on the table. all the fall for it is you know,

p thoughts and whatever like that. it's all in, in the sense that somehow we can just talk our way out of a situation that rent when it clearly requires a more cohesive strategy. and that authority is beholden to. um, you know, if, if, if they were to challenges around meaningfully that housing authority would instantly cease to exist because it is real cuts off and the support. and if they treat the current housing authority, the way they treated it, when it was under yes or our thoughts, you remember that the statement of our compound in drum, of the killing of, you know, they actually embedded his compound on multiple occasions. that's when you put yourself in that situation under occupation and your existence depends on the occupier, is allowing you to exist and live and have the privilege that you do. that is not a recipe for a meaningful leadership that can actually lead the palestinians out of the situation. there is a view to any reflected by old polls in palestinian territories occupied in unoccupied. so do you think it will be though,

through by jingle moscow that this is solved now that washington is so clearly part of the war, the white, a war that all these other countries are now arranged against? yeah, again, it's very, very difficult to imagine what the future holds right now. it's an, i don't know what that copy of it looks like. what does it mean when you have israel as a regional power in the middle east? that is backed by the world superpower in the united states, giving an unlimited military weapons to do whatever it wants and is really the nuclear on state. i don't know how this as well, i don't know what a solution even looks like at this point, unless either the us reins is real and in some way. and since that's not on the table in the short term, then we are headed towards almost immune and complex. and we have to see what that fix up on the other side of just until that incarnate that i just wish we had the foresight to work our way out. but it's, well, i guess we'll have to wait and see how other powers react. and what kind of constraints they may be able to introduce in order to pull us back from the break

about or thank you. thank you. and that's of the show of continued condolences to those very by the you k u s. u armed genocide and gaza will be back on saturday with a senior u. s. officer doing whistle blah, who held 2 of the highest interested leadership positions in the us air force and pentagon. the claims and names related is riley spy of the highest levels of u. s. government still than even touched by real life social media. if it's not sensitive in your country and to our channel going underground tv, hon dot com, to let you know the episodes of going underground. so you said the hello and welcome to the cross, the full board. here we discuss the wheel in the one. yeah. do that too, at that point, but at the extra

a month i see it's not there for the show and then it will have to last negotiated. all of it is uh, international stuff is the template to supplement the setup button and not to mention in a person wants to do an easy task like that. if i see the media, i know people, there's only 2 reasons to do, say with the city the new country can be service and they're going to be present the day before the work you've done. stimulus the industry is little less money. proof of concept really left. so should william farmer shots, monuments, so we have court cash door to door or decision to my name. and what was that man? it was a what was ridiculous funds i put in the midst of them one today and but you know, so that's what additional to settlement shows, tools or suspect, pretty shock journals on page to refresh the screen. those are best do what i mean

. there's a, there's a problem the somali breaks off diplomatic relations with ukraine and cindy gold, someone's its own boy, after tea, as most of its support in west african military, also coming up our tea, obtain fund age step reports to show the recently released evans, 1st of which on poll wheeling important red hyundai, then acts of espionage bounce, as washington friends must go with more sanction in an apartment with 2 white horses prisoner shop. in the major a prisoner exchanged 10 russians, returned home, one of the former detainees has been calling his experiences and the newest did not provide any documents. certainly. hancock, schools it onto

a plane and taken to the next.