actions your beans, they live to say they have the move um the most beautiful democracy in the world. but uh, in 2019 you, they recognized one wide though as of in his warehouse spray of state. so what we can see can see in this case is the, uh, the part uh, they fear the rise of their salaries in the rules and they joined the us disease. life made a life when they joined the us position in it. we grain cries of. so it's almost the same case. they want to take out a little and, and they want to cancel the politics in england as well them and of course they energy but they, so, and oil and things like that. so i guess they are trying new, cool. this uh like, uh, they try it so many years ago and they will invest mom

a and was source in a position. so right now they are doing this just now for the stay with our to international up next done going underground. option return. see speaks with more about our a member of the national policy council of the error of american institute about the increasingly 10 situation in the middle of the time action, or can say welcome back to going underground bulk of single around the world review a today mark 62 years since the u. k. u s. u, i'm jailing of nelson mandela in prison between 62 and 1990. after c, i a covert of ration in south africa, mondale or in 1997,

said we know too well that all freedom is incomplete. without the freedom of the palestinians today is billions of dollars worth of weapons from the european union . the u. k. and principal sponsor of israel, the usa i dropped on gaza to exterminate palestinian superpowers, russia in china. i'm focusing their attention is on a possible wider us israel, maybe nuclear war targets include 11 and syria human ends. iran, regardless of who wins november's us elections. joining me now from washington, dc 0 by the a member of the national policy council will be out of american institute. homer, thank so much for coming on. i should say we're recording this interview before the events of the weekend. tomorrow's also 79 years of the usa, designated and usually a bowman who rossimer. what do you think? do you think there are any messy attic elements in israel? the think that they get results to the nuclear weapons. a demo to bass will control the demona base a given how much they seem to be possibly losing, and

a warranty anymore against lebanon, iran, yemen, syria, russia, china, who knows who else. so i think you're putting your finger exactly on the terrified prospects of where this could end. because right now we are set up in a compensation after a series of extremely provocative actions by the israeli government to complete and total district. 1 for international law, complete a total disregard for any possibility of peace talks or temporary down the situation in the region. we will see just the series of assassinations at this point and it's all leading us towards a major confrontation that is on consequences. i mean, certainly, if this thing gets out of hand, it could lead not figuratively, but literally to the desk of millions of people in the region. and the question becomes, is, at the end of all, this is where you'll find yourself backed into a corner. what is the possibility of them using their weapons? i don't think that's the sort of question. i mean there is a level of lack of rationality. and these really government so far,

just to kind of appreciate where we are and why we're here is where i would rather burn the entire region to the ground that lock hausteen's basic human rights along to live in freedom and dignity. that is why we're here. this has been the case for decades as an apartheid government that has treated policies like garbage and designing their most fundamental freedoms and insisted that they live a life without dignity or their life and be stolen and their water can be taking away. and when there was a natural reaction to that, this is not defending it, but just saying that this is a natural consequence of people being held without freedom for a very long time. and people kind of counter attack then is around use that as justifications to commit massacres. and every bit of pressure that was built up towards ending as well as dennis out of gaza. israel has responded to with further escalation. so we're not dealing with a rational government that is those trying to engage in a way where it wants to co exist. and people in the region is really is insisting on regional dominance. and if that means less killing and death in order to

maintain that dominant, this is the path they've actually gone for, of course, what you said about israel there is, is not a view that shed by any of the correspondents on the so called mainstream media networks. in the united states and nato nation capital is, but do you think there is some kind of growing recognition of what you just said? there seem to be doubts actually cost on the is really account of the much out sounds. attack is if has below and lebanese resistance would attack arabs in the occupied the golan heights. there seems to be doubts about the sci fi deal that they stand there. the podium with the state department talking about after they the u. s. u. k. u weapons. we used to kill the main negotiator for us. that's the so high the, the, by the ministration to be trumpeted. yeah. and the whole thing is, is kind of a charade. you have a and is really government that so far has just so absolute and total in lack of

interest in kind of settling the situation. right. we've had a serious, you know, we've talked about the attack that took place and the goal and the goal heights occupied going heights, siri and kids were killed by that rocket, which remains mysterious. we're not sure who lost it. we're not sure if it was an accident, we're not sure if it's some group that did not know how to unlock it, or if it's an error, it is really aren't doing this so that misfired or something. there's just no adequate information. and the one thing that we do know is that these really government lives constantly. we know that they have repeatedly lied about an endless set of issues to try to justify either ongoing occupation or to justify even further atrocity. we all remember with that when post in american, all to 0 during was 3 and a box, it was kill initially, these really governments that, that it was, palestinians will killed her. and then finally they said ok, fine, we did it, but it was an accident. and thorough investigation so that she was actually targeted by a sniper, which means she was deliberately sought by these really military. and you can go on

with a 1000000 example, including by the way, the events that took place on october side of the they're a bit uncertain as if what happened on october 7th was not bad, bad enough. these really government engaged in inflammatory exaggerations as a means of testifying what was going to follow. and i think that this is very similar that we are in a moment right now we're, there is this, the serious rock is a kill 12 kids were playing soccer. and i think all is real thought this as a useful justification launched further across. and that's read this war beyond because it feels like such a sympathetic incident that within america response. but ultimately we know that israel does not care about the syrian kids and the goal in life. because a government that has killed 16000 counseling children and got up to about possibly care about the lives of children. that's not a serious motivation. that's not something that actually comes into the tomorrow calculus when israel's about their us. and they see this just simply as an opportunity to expand their aggressive action. and the question that remains is,

what is the us doing for all of this? and it seems to be essentially giving as really green light. does this, terry, off pushing the entire region to o'clock instead of doing what is just basic minimal, not just moral decency but strategic commonsense, which is to say that we need more stability in that region. that means raising in the country that is currently engaged, identified, and that has that we have this, this potential for our regional exposure and beyond anything that we've ever imagined. because this genocide is not, has not been stopped and nobody's doing anything meaningful to actually put it to an end. why do you say seems to be a green light? because that's, it seems to be a speculation by some critics of you here on. so go mainstream media when to most of the world, rather than blaming israel. and i mean, i'll give you that and yeah, i was playing a master behind most of really here every move he makes

a puts him further and further away from prison where he would go for corruption and it isn't really his room doing this, is it, it is the united states doing this? yes or no, no way. i think united states, obviously israel anthony ah, who would not be able to do anything that he's doing without full us backing. and that has been fundamentally, but the problem here, the issue is what, what is the motivation on the american side? is it just a default towards deferring to israel, allowing them call the soft waves? the sorry on you saw in congress the 52 of ations for that and, you know, originally clear that the entire congress except with a few hon. exceptions wants to exterminate all the palestinians. yeah, i don't. i mean, again, the facts of what you're saying is correct. right, they are standing up and applauding a work criminal who is engaged in genocide violence and god, they're, they're putting these words. yeah. and he just really says more or less that the

extermination developed in people is what's in school. i think the people that serve in the american congress are operating under an outdated mindset. it is a default that the arabs are the other, including the palestinians, and that israel are the ones who are like us. and there has been extensive influence from these around lobby for many, many years, and in america. so part of this is about domestic politics as above the financial influence of groups like a pack or spending a $100000000.00 into selection to try it this way. congressional seats and their favor, they successfully asked it jamal omen recently, who was a critic of his ready policy by dumping something like $15000000.00 into his race. you know, and supported his opponents in augusta. so there is that aspect of it and there is also the aspect to the fact that a significant portion of the american population is about the question. um and for them there isn't making any view this on. however, a religious duty to support israel right or wrong and that motivates american

politicians, is that makes that who are always more interested in their own political power and maintaining their positions in congress. and they are in promoting actually the policy. and i think the best part of the capital is here, is that what we're trying to back effectively, the american political establishment is to stop looking for your own personal narrow interest and think about the field of the world and what is right and what is wrong and this pretense bizarre, that is what they say. yes, i'm would say they've come all there is doesn't even need the millions of dollars from a pack because actually these people believe in the phase of the world, which is that the palestinians will be exterminated. what do you make of lincoln immediately saying? yeah, this was definitely 11 and that's a, it killed the arabs, of course a and cnn. they were his riley somehow. it was blinking and lloyd austin immediately saying, well whatever happens in baby, it doesn't really matter. and, you know, violating evading and ask space whatever, at least they imply those things. yeah,

this is a subtle difference that i think is, is where i'm heading on. there's a different between having disregard for the lives of palestinians and lebanese, and others, and actively wanting them to be exterminated. so i think it would be a stretch to say that people and the american political establishment actively want to see these termination of problems been here. but there is a level of disregard that they're watching israel do it, and they don't care. and that ought to be infuriating, and it puts, you know, throws all of the slogan, hearing about the american administration about putting human rights 1st and an international law based order and all of this nonsense. it's just, it's all this rate. these are people who are interested in their own power in spreading the power of united states and right now they feel that between their own domestic political interests in their view, by the way mistakenly i should say that they ought to continue supporting what israel does that is an outdated view based on the way politics used to be. there's a significant shift in american public opinion right now. young people throughout the country oppose what israel is doing. they want to cut off military funding for

israel. they want an end to this genocide and a ceasefire, and god and the political establishment is not responsive to the shift. i think it whenever you have shifts happen in a country. the last part that actually changes is the political establishment. so we're beginning to see the rules of some change, and i think it's going to have to be that politicians with support the general dentist out of policy paying a political call comes election day in order for them to realize that they have to correct force and until that happens, at this point, they're just sticking their heads of this, that young people get their information through social media. they don't rely on legacy appropriate media, and that's why they get information that is actually accurate. and it leads to the obvious conclusion of israel isn't a part time state is engaging in genocide and there should not be another penny spence on a country that behaves that way. we should be, have complete and total cut off of weapons and money to israel until israel starts behaving like in our country rather than a real estate. we have to stop saying that israel gets to be a country that is above the line above any rules and does what it wants. and once

that change happens, then we can actually see a problem clicked for a better future for both israelis and palestinians. and that would then hold us policy in line with the rhetoric that we're constantly proud of about talking about freedom and democracy and human rights and all that nonsense. that just has not really effectively looked uh, you know, like it has any templates to the reality of american policy. the contradiction has to be resolved. rather i'll stop you the more from the member, the national policy council of the arab american institute. after this break the, [000:00:00;00]

the, the welcome back to going undergrad. i was still here with the are of american is to do national policy council member omar bother. while you were talking about the cognitive dissidence, i suppose, between the those who governing the government in the united states, k of the polls show that the american people, one to seize 5, regardless of the applause war netanyahu. but then, what will the elite class do in your country? will they crack down even harder than they already have done?

i saw the pep, a spray of the demonstrations against that and you know, his visit when he gave a is speech to both houses of congress we saw across the campus, protesting the heavy ended police violence. some people invoking ken stage and we had no yeah it's, it's a really a shameful chapter in american history right now that i have no doubt that future generations will look back in the same way that we've looked back at many previous sample chapters of american history. in which the concepts of this country has stood up to say no to existing policy. and they've been faced with the repression. and this is a repeat of that. you know, we have this fantasy that we're past that period whenever you talk about historical atrocities. whenever you talk about slavery and the genocide of native americans and segregation of the, in terms of japanese americans and the vietnam war and the list goes on and on. there's always the sense that these are things that surely we know better now. and if they were to happen again, we would not react to them the same way. and yet,

here we are once again in a particularly ugly and distasteful phase, which we are watching. palestinians get star to death and murder in the 10s of thousands and gossip. all of it funded by americans money and supported with american policy and diplomatic protection for israel. and the people who are standing up to that young people on college campuses who are raising their voices and saying no to this are indeed the voice, our other boys have confidence in this country. and yes, we are stuck in this really bizarre reality where the political leave. i mean, you, you may have even seen it when they were applying this in the, out a form, you know, criminal was attacking american college students about their protests and you had american lawmakers applauding, april and work from an old was attacking their own students. it's such a ugly and the states were reality that exists right now. and if you would want to shake these people and wake them up now to say, don't you see what is happening? i don't know how history is going to look back at this moment. but unfortunately,

it looks like the, the way we evolve is not as seamless as we would like to imagine. and it really, it's unfortunately will be a lot more in depth incarnate before this country comes to a census and realize that we are heading down the wrong path. i've got a corrective, there's need it's but it's always been about people rising up and demanding that change. people have never changed their policies from the top down. it is always see from the bottom up when people have confidence that made it untenable for governments that continued on with policies that are completely monsters and indefensible that we've achieved, changed to that. yes. and then yeah, who said that the demonstrations were somehow involved with the indian government resident of how trump campaign was m l a russian except the time is all you'd be running out doing all of this, isn't it? yeah, i mean, what do you think? do you think uh, nothing you know, it's got the green lights when he met with a couple of hours and joe biden on that visit to congress. he also went to see

trump and murray logo got the green light from him. and then there was just before the space of assassinations, there was the head of the c. i a meeting in room with the head the most that, i mean is this a concerted? it attempt at whitening the war even as the is it blinking? who knows? it runs the white house, it's moving, actually a denies it to the circle, mainstream media. a. yeah, there is a, i think one of the all who's doing here is calling the american administration's bluff. he understands that the bottom administration would rather calm things down . they're not interested in a regional conflict, but he also knows that the bottom ministration is never going to do anything meaningful to hold his row back. so basically they have meetings and the binding administration says we would rather you not escalate and maybe don't want, why do you think that's the case when we buy the ministration is in the receipt or so much money from a pack? i mean they, i mean, surely show you about it before and before november. be quite good for the buy the ministration, just c k us warfare and catastrophe here and somehow make them come on our system

kind of war time leader is going to be good for the v. what you listen to the contrast and speeches of a sort of the way trump has been talking. trump has insist that the reason why there is always chaos is because he's not present at the because bindings is, is the one who's president and if it were him, you can achieve call. and i think that instigated, i mean you can see it in the step and the way the by that was talking about what is happening and, and gaza from the beginning until later on when it was clear that there was significant public discontent with it. at 1st he did what every american politician does, israel has the right to defend itself, which related to us, what they're doing. and then as the opposition sort of building, and we saw that this thing was not actually resonating with the american public. the public opinion, especially on the democratic side, is bracing with this policy by that started talking about how is real engaging and the discriminant in bombing and gaza. there some people said that as a gas and all that was dumped as $12000.00 pound bottom shipment, it's the j can be a got, it cannot be a gap because it's not

a one off. there's been a repeated powder of binding raising objections, which means that at least rhetorically, he's uncomfortable with the fact that the us to see it as fully endorsing everything that as well as doing communion, 6 wiley's skill funds, the agendas as precisely, i guess, as we're not disagreeing here, did, he's uncomfortable with it but not willing to go as far as to actually who has just what he wrote, who can do it. i don't understand. okay, is about his rhetoric and so on, while the heads are being dismembered of children and goes about his bones to which, which tells you what the current, which is what i'm trying to look to hear. the dynamic is, is that nothing? yeah. how is able to disregard the objections from united states about his policies? because he knows that the, by the ministration likes the backbone to stand up in any out in any meaningful sense. so who cares to your point? who cares what they're telling him, that he's the top things down and not bump a route to not look for us to wasted with the wrong. if at the end of the day,

the us is going to keep handing out the money and the weapons for his role to do whatever it was, that's why we're here. and the call is it's, it's an appeal to the american political establishment to understand the folly of their approach. this idea that you can see regional peace and stability through just giving israel whatever it wants to never questioning it and never challenging it. that has not worked, that has been a recipe for amulets, regional conflict. and i'm frankly, one that puts even us interest in the region in harm's way. and if we are serious about being interested in a more stable regions in the region in which the us can have better relations with, with the region and saw you have to have towards the escalation, that means reading nothing yahoo and renamed that apartheid genocidal government. and putting a stop to their behavior by saying not another penny, as long as you behave that way. and in the long term, like in the short term, you need that cease fire. but the lot are you cannot achieve regional piece without addressing the issue of palestinians being denied freedom. okay, well, i don't,

i don't think there's going to be any of that happening because neither of the 2 parties are going to do that. so how will the american elite and how will the american people respond when us assets are now targeted? because obviously under international law, 11 and, and the wrong can now respond. what happens to all these u. s. bases dosage around west asia when they start getting attacked. and us service in men and women who stop getting killed on a scale much larger than that by on sort of allow from human that is a horrifying prospect that is effectively what we're looking at is the possibility of a major regional war that iran is engaged in directly that the us, as indeed has been directly and who knows what the consequences of that will be, is nothing but death and destruction was completely uncertain, walter and future. but the only means that the political class has double down. just saying what, what will the reaction be, will they double down then on their zionism, is that why we've, we've seen this happen time and time again. we've seen it and the, the, the history of vietnam is very tight. i think initially and the pace or something

like that, there is an effective to double down and rally around the flag and push even harder and stronger. it is only in the water when this ends up being costly enough or attracted way does the us realize that things maybe have been done the wrong way? it's a 20 years for us to realize that we've made a mistake and our gas down to pull out only from the top of on to come back and take power again. unfortunately, if, if history teaches us any less than it is that people don't react well to military confrontations quickly wiser and calmer minds don't always rain. and those moments people who are calling for retaliation that respond to violence and strength, those tend to be the people who are right to the top and take the range of things. but as this becomes a protracted problem, that's where we might see the potential for a shift in policy. and it would be incredibly tragic not to learn that lesson sooner to say before things escalate to that point before things get completely out of hand. we also have the foresight to see where this is heading and to put a stop to it before it ends there and to look for,

for me to put the escalation movie is due as well. no, did you mention vietnam which of course the united states last obviously off to huge amounts of college in the endo china, what sort of television is there in washington? and do they even know that there was a badging declaration uniting a mouse with a piano and 5 to and the p f l b and all the other listed in groups that all of these people were in moscow that there, there were a huge configure to of changes going on in the global south as regard support for the palestinians struggle. i'm sure they're aware of the fact of how this is changing on the global front of that particular gear. and there's a question of how meaningful that specific our agreement is when it comes to policy, any infections? because ultimately the policy and authority that exists in the west bank exists because the us and israel allowed to exist it. is it at any point that the us and there's no cut off support for it? i think that authority with lots. so it's to, you know, to say that there's going to be made meaningful. we're going to take to come up.

there are limits to that because they have patriots who are on the opposite sides of, of this really. but at least we saw at least we saw the head of floss, a more. and the dad, there is what has happened here, which is how long would never normally have ever expected. anyone who's followed what's been happening in this region? yeah, it's, i think some of that is, is about the domestic domestic consumption more than anything else. they feel that they have to make certain statements, but unfortunately, i think we're stuck between um, you know, a rock and a hard place of policy and leadership is not looking particularly optimistic anywhere at this point. and certainly with the policy and authority, there is a sense of evidence that what is the point of authority was only function right now is effectively to make the occupation easier for his route to run administrative tasks and the policy in areas to run schools and collect garbage, but not really being part of any meaningful effort towards liberating palestine from is really occupations. that's not on the table. all the fall for it is you

know, p thoughts and whatever like that. it's all in, in the sense that somehow we can just talk our way out of a situation that rent when it clearly requires a more cohesive strategy. and that authority is beholden to. um, you know, if, if, if they were to challenges around meaningfully that housing authority would instantly cease to exist because it is real, it cuts off any supports and if they treat the current housing authority, the way they treated it when it was under, yes, are our thoughts and remember that the statements of our compounds in, from, of the killing of, you know, they actually embedded his compound on multiple occasions. that's when you put yourself in that situation under occupation. and your existence depends on the occupier, is allowing you to exist and live and have the privilege that you do. that is not a recipe for a meaningful leadership that can actually lead the palestinians out of the situation. there is a view to any reflected by old polls in palestinian territories, occupied and unoccupied. so do you think it will be though,

through badging or moscow that this is solved now that washington is so clearly part of the war, the wide, a war that all these other countries are now arranged against? yeah, again, it's very, very difficult to imagine what the future holds right now. it's, i don't know what that popular looks like. what does it mean when you have israel as a regional power in the middle east? that is backed by the world superpower in the united states, giving an unlimited military weapons to do whatever it wants and is really the nuclear on state. i don't know how this ends. well, i don't know what a solution even looks like at this point, unless either the us reins is real and in some way. and since that's not on the table in the short term, then we are headed towards almost imminent conflict and we have to see what that shakes up on the other side of just until death. and part of that, i just wish we had the foresight to work our way on it, but it's, well, i guess we'll have to wait and see how other powers react. and what kind of constraints they may be able to introduce in order to pull us back from the brink

of either. thank you this. thank you. and that sort of the show continued condolences to those very by the you k u. s. u armed genocide and gaza will be back on saturday with a senior u. s. office of john whistle, the who held 2 of the highest interested leadership positions in the us air force and pentagon, the claims and names and the ledges, riley spy of the highest levels of u. s. government still then even touched. why will i social media if it's not sensitive in your country and to our channel going under warranty, the hon dot com to let you know that besides of going on the ground. so you said the hello and welcome to across the board. here we discussed some real in the

the we decided we will form an insult him, government, and all the worlds of this country will be carried out through the ensuing government, the bangladesh, the army announces an interim government will step into power as the country's prime minister resigns and playing in a military helicopter. she has landed for a stop over in india. protesters have broken into the bangladesh apartment building in the word crowds are celebrating prime minister and shake has seen as resignation the crime take to you turn the timing. it doesn't support terrorism despite the loading about his backing of militants and molly and late july. this says the west

african state cuts ties with. yeah. also ahead today the us and the west want to