to the reason that i am a fan of guaranteed income because it is this idea that everybody is deserve. and then just by virtue of your being here, the the hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter will about the north atlantic treaty organization is celebrating its 75th anniversary in washington. this week, for many in the west, nato is deemed to be the most successful military alliance in history. for others beyond the west, nato is the most serious security threat to humanity. today, the

cross talking nato. i'm joined by my guess. erin, good in philadelphia. he is a political scientist historian, as well as author of american exception empire in the deep states in san francisco . we have k, j. know he is a political analyst and journalists and in lisbon we crossed alexander guerrero. he is an international legal analyst. i gentleman cross talk roles in effect. that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate every, let me go to you 1st thing in philadelphia. um, um, we have, we here over and over again. nato is the most successful military alliance in history is almost like getting f one on your computer. but you know, as they're celebrating their uh 75th anniversary in washington. what achievements, how do they have under their belt, other than surviving as an alliance? that's the only quote unquote achievement. i can think of. go ahead, eric, as well, they tow served to keep alive western imperialism, and to re brand it as a either under consolidated under the us band,

or as really of all of the colonial powers of the world. the united, uh, basically the core of capitalism and imperialism. for the proceeding centuries, and they were able to re brand it as a defense of freedom. this very powerful force or a that had a lot of invest in capital all around the world. the us police that and nato was uh, the tip of the spear there in a sense, especially as it began to expand into these, quote unquote peacekeeping missions and so on in the wake of the cold war, of the aftermath of the cold war. and this led to it becoming something new, kind of different sort of a in force or for the, the, or global capitalism for the us, us empire listed imperialism. and but going back to the cold war, i mean, if it's a successful lot regime in that it did stay in power for so long. but it's also existed as a kind of dictatorship of europe in certain ways. i mean the gladiators,

the gladiator networks were called nato secret armies by some people. and they were there as a kind of dictatorship in the wings for any western european leader that got out of line that they could stage ball spiked hair attacks. so it, it put the lie to democracy because you can't really heavy democracy when the state maintains a secret veto over the very lives of your heads of state. and can also engage that acts of pulse black terrorism to move the population politically wherever they want them. so this is really a dark floors in global politics that i don't think will be fully recognized by large parts of the public until the afternoon as the so many things of that we see in the last decades of especially the us empire such as denial of about what that is at the top of it, at the corner of it that i don't think we can deal with it until that power is, is decisively defeated. and perhaps when nato is dissolved we'll start talking

about, well, you know, yeah. okay tay, it's really interesting with a visa, ve, the ukraine, complex nato has been able to devour as it were, the european union. i mean, it's, you know, you, the, the, it's nato, the dictates the security ideas of the entire union, the independence of states do not. so that is another on, not in nato as belt it. one of the interesting things, as they always talk about themselves as a defense of alliance, i'm calling this program offensive alliance. um, i wonder would people ins in serbia think about the term defensive alliance or libya and the failed mission in you? in afghanistan. i mean, and also what they're doing and ukraine, i mean, they continue to say that they're not a party to the conflict resolution which is just laughable. go ahead. k j. yes, i mean, it's been the murderous on of us imperialism. and it's,

as you said earlier, it's great, his success has been, it's branding, or it's miscommunication of what it's really doing. it's not defensive. it's never support a defensive war in it's lifetime claims to be a collection of democracies. but no, it's never been democratic from the beginning. it was allied with special states like portugal and delete. it was integral in ensuring the success of fascism around europe. and it even had to lose one time, cheaper of stock adults posting go. he went from the cheap but the nazi military command to the chief of the nato military for not. and did you know of ports to uphold human rights and rule of law but actually destroyed human rights. it destroys human lives. it destroys a quote. and i think the way that the countries are and the world had largely seen through it and see what it is rested on us imperialism bein sports.

the boons on us. well, it's alexander, you know, they, they call themselves the defense of alliance. but if you look at the security architecture of europe, nato is an instrument in which european security is decided, not only without russia but against russia, and that's why we have the situation we have in ukraine. go ahead and listen right here we are saying here in europe where we say the best defense is get there. and basically this is the, the, the, the, the topic that inspires the model that police nato on east actions towards any other countries. you, we must not forget that natalie itself. it was created in late 1940, especially to technical and to block the communism as well as the most of the union over your so the start to, to have any direction to fight russia. what do these russia after the whole are of the full of the early old things,

the chief justice drastically because they have and crumbling back them. a president that was the lead favor of the west of useless. but suddenly, when the russians decided to have their own identities to make their own way by themselves, that again, russia rise as being understood here in the west as being anatomy. and as long as we have this kind of understanding to look at russia as anatomy and not as in our, we will keep only speeding social the rest. the serial and ras innovation is like actually that's everything that marks. and that's the main brand off natal. all over the world. so what we have knowing you bring this is not a surprise if we take a look above how the united states worked so hard along with you'd be union dall democratically elected president. and it's right to be plus the political situation in your brain and what we are seeing now underneath those lives. this is understood

as being a challenge on the life of their we, we as nate or we, as west, we have to defeat the independence. russia as well as multiple or is this, you saw things understood? and yeah, this is how nato is work is by spreading more and more locally pick news, but also to share and to provide a lot of weaponry to you. great, because the drain is not to save. your brain is not to have an independent your brain. they bowl their main goal is only to target the russian and after russia, israel also can china, the 2 major powers into world war independently work independently from west the needs of quote, you know, area. and we, we, we heard from lloyd aust of the secretary of defense early on and this complex, or this part of the come what they should say because it started in 2014 not in 2022 is that the goal was to we can rush it and of course not only to, we can rush it, but to break it up we have,

there are officials in the european union now that say that openly go ahead. aaron . right. that's clearly was the whole mind onto was about and it's more and more obvious that this is the case. and it's the, it, the whole episode highlights the real crisis at the top of the us regime. because it should have been easy to game out that the you that the, the ukrainians we're not gonna be able to defeat russia. that russia view this as a extremely important existential even battle for themselves. and that they would, they would not be able to defeat them. defeat russia and ukraine without provoking a response that could likely leads and go to nuclear war. then russia has been very methodical about treating the ukrainian military. that is essentially a nato military, a week after week after week. and when you, we were talking before about how you people predicted that this conflict put it in

pretty quickly, and it absolutely should have been did very quickly. that was about to end in april . right. so that's why it's negotiations. and it's a truism and international relations and political science that you can't achieve anything at the negotiating table that you cannot achieve on the battlefield. but this wasn't really true for ukraine. ukraine could actually walk away with a much better deal than it ever could achieve on the battlefield as we are seeing now. and was always obvious. and the, the war itself had the effect of imposing upon russia. the imperative that they had to engage in import substitute industrialization because of all the sanctions and everything else. but the us actually in the west, the liberal west of the early cold war, used to actually advocate this for countries that had balance of payments pro, problems and so on. as a way to sure up their economic systems. and this is how the us became an economic power was through import substitute industrialization,

taxing tariffs and taxing and ports, and building infrastructure. that was how the us became and with power. that's all right. so we basically forced pressure to do things that were very beneficial for russia economically and industrially. and we hastened the end of the dollar regime . and we have wasted a massive amounts of money, some of which went to actually buy weapons and probably pay soldiers. but a lot of it was just embezzled by ukrainians. who are they're taking all of this money and just sacrificing their own countrymen for this doomed effort. that is really only made russia considerably stronger us and nato a weaker and destroyed ukraine. yeah, i mean k of the, the, the whole effort to turn the, the, the, the rubel into rubble is actually boomerang very, very strongly against the west. i mean, if you, if you're not a lift you live in russian, you don't follow the news. you wouldn't even though the country is sanctioned. go ahead take a real quick before we go to the break. absolutely,

and most countries have not gone along with those sanctions. it's the vast majority of countries, except for the e. u and some western european vassals, those are the only countries that have gone along with these unilateral illegal sanctions, most of the world has voted with their feet and they said we are not with the united states. we're not with nature. and so very clearly, as you point out in russia, you know, the sanctions on felt rushes. economy is doing fine. it's like it's doing much more . well, i mean, i was surprised a lot of viewers. i liked the sanctions. i think like them or get away from the toxic a financial system of the west because it doesn't have a future gentleman. i have to jump in here. we're going to go to wish a short break. and after that break, we'll continue our discussion on nato state with our to the valley. her mother's us to store. okay. the model grid,

i got you. no problem. seeing it all out of the know nothing. 30 minutes the side of the drive i showed my brother through he was sudden too big of for a lo so now i never look at searches as being saved. well, i guess i lost my list. that's the outcome of chicago police. it'd be gang chicago is like, can you get photos? i believe you lazy as another crap thing. another i could have been a doctor. a nurse could have been the next president. we can't keep losing people out here. the united states try new sanctions on russia. that's the best thing the, the go to happened to russia because the sanctions on russia, against agriculture, against the other items,

or made russia status tardies that's on so as on agriculture and now, so the major part of the export are no longer dependence on the united states and europe, the welcome back. across stock were all things are considered non peter le, about your mind. you were discussing nato, the okay. i was, henry, started out this program by asking air and what the achieve, what nato has achieved on its 75th birthday here. but i, i found, you know, broken promises to be honest with you. and let's go through 4 of them real quick, one right after another. not one is in east talking about german unification. ok. they lied about that ukrainian neutrality. they lied about that indivisibility of

security. they lied about that. and the whole men's process, they've proven to move themselves to be deceitful, liars, so i don't know what they're celebrating, but i think the, the, the dishonesty implicity of this alliance has to be highlighted. that's why i'm making this program. alexander a. yes, basically they're celebrating all those countries that they help to fuel and the rest. they also help to these member in that think about you was lady a probably on their neighbors perspective. this is a reason to celebrate a specially for the present to present the secretary general do not the nations who back them was primary source, portugal and she supported fully. then they do it. the ration in yugoslavia now sees the building and to try to call for, for be in, in, in your brain. but basically what you bring has been given guys what nato has been

giving us all over this time. was only the early speak agenda. only then will solution that they want to gather more and more countries on the under the perspective of a boarding seer, rather than that, they will give any kind of depressing perspective. for example, you bring, they have the expectations to join nato. so wish we all know it's highly unlikely. it will never happen, never bought. i bought the st possible, but it's technically it's highly unlikely, but i believe that they keep with the pressure on the the secretary general may to do last to accept them at the same time. i believe that this is not please do this . there early this we took the blue we far above the easy this on a bit. you have to be going here. yeah. the way it was discussed and he bates all over weston, me force the media. yep. and how this could be used in order to justify more and

more weaponry support from day to, to break. we never heard, we have never heard a deal now. and not only nato officials, but also being an individual's speaking about bees about jews. never heard of about that. we only hear the say kind of model which is destroying and defeat the russian . we have to think rush it read, got a list of what did the fix, they will produce all you bring and i have to west. what do you guys have to bring? will we have in the next 22 years? will there even be you bring? what is this the project alternate to is this is like, well, you know, alexander, i don't think the nato under the leadership of the united states gives a hoot about what happens to ukraine personally. okay. i mean, i suppose of the zalinski regime as illegitimate as it is right now, they will always strive for nato membership as long as they get paid. okay,

i don't know. do these people send their kids to the front? i tend to doubt it, you know, air and there's, i, i mentioned my, my 3rd broken promise lie here. and i don't want to sound really nerdy, but you know, the indivisibility of security. this was what made your opinion security work, and you can not enhance your security at the expense of another country. everybody agreed to that. everybody, if it was called the helsinki process. okay. and now nato, as if that doesn't exist. well, russia does, aaron, or right, and we're seeing now with the position of that israel finds itself in that it really is a huge security issue to have hospital military powers right on your doorstep. israel has been in this position where it should have tried to make peace with the people in the region, but it was so hell bent on an ex appropriating what the past indians has left, that they've antagonized all of their neighbors. and they find themselves surrounded by people who have missiles that can be aimed at them. and there's

really no defense against that. ukraine armed with hypersonic missiles. what's the us will one day be able to produce, you know, more efficiently in the near future. that would have been a disaster for rest of they would have been minutes away from the nuclear range of nato. moscow would have been, so it really was a tremendous thread and, and, and the legitimate threat. this wasn't an imperialistic land grab by a vladimir, put in the way that it's depicted in the west. brussel has lots of land and lots of resources. it really was motivated by a fear of security, that is part that is existence. so because it's the same logic that the us apply to cuba in the cuban missile crisis. and you can't really stop ballistic missiles that are very close to you as israel is finding out, you can just overwhelm all missile defense systems. and that's why this is, it was deemed it's such a huge threat in part,

in the fact that it would have taken away their access to a warm water port which is essential for russia, which i think is part of the motivation for it. i think rushes, the backing of syria made the you couldn't the neo cons that, that run you as far policy for the last 30 years. it made them go kind of insane. that because they really, i think that there are people who are a large part of them are dedicated 1st and foremost to the idea of greater israel. and syria stands in the way of the final solution is of the past in and since russia health, syria, as well, the rest of it had to be destroyed. i think that that might be the thing that best explains why they were not so greedy because that's what we expect from western imperialism. but really in single minded, it was stupid way to confront russia in a stupid well english. and so, i mean, why they didn't, they, they know very little about history because let's just go back to the cold war, major new killer powers. don't go toe to toe. it's not a good idea. you know, why? because one might lose, or both might lose. go back to the 19th century. great powers try to stay away from

fighting each other because you could lose. okay, look what happened in 1918 major powers finding each other one empire after another collapse. it's not a good idea to do it. and now we have new killer weapons. okay, that's what makes these people of fools and very, very dangerous k j. let me go to you. i mean, i, i promised myself i wouldn't make a program about, uh, biden's dementia, but the biden's, the mentor is inter interfering with our program. okay. we all know about the disastrous debate checks that's done. but then with the a b c, news interview with stephanopoulos. the biden was talking about his achievements. i expand nato. you just do americans really give a hoot about expansion of nato? i mean, considering half the country is for the debt that is there. be like so many people fear for their livelihood here. and you have this man saying,

but i expanded nato. i mean, these people are really out of touch, you know, it's, it's up. so, i mean, clearly, biden is no longer capable of, you know, exercising even minimal cognitive function. i think just the other day he said that he was the 1st black president of uh, size for his that yeah, yeah. as vice president. so i think that, you know, in the united states, all you have to do is look around you, people are starving, their homeless day hysterical. the naked, the software and, you know, 50 percent of the us population does not have $600.00 to its name. and for joe biden, to go up in an interview and say that is great. accomplishment is expanding nato. i mean, i think all of us look around and say, you know which planet is this person living on? it's just the absolute and total of sir. well, you know, but alexander, explain to us why nato won't negotiate an end to this conflict in ukraine. by my

account. russia is proposed 5 different times. and, and as aaron pointed out, when the stem bull process and the weeks after the complex started in february of 2022, there was a, a sticker document that had been essentially initial. why can't nato negotiate an end to this? because when, when this comes to an end, nickel is gonna look very bad and maybe its very existence will be at stake. it has a choice. go ahead. well, are mostly, i honestly believe that natal steel holes that there is a liking the end of the tunnel that will allow them to exit no exaggerate. you know, i liked the matter for light at the end of the tunnel, but you know what, that light at the end of the tunnel is a train coming out to keep going. it exists exactly that, and that's pretty much look really what happens in. yeah, because they have the expectation that they will be saved and that they will be

able to get off of this conflict in a clean way. we'd all take at least 2, but need they need to face their own folders and say, well, we have to do a lot of this. we have to achieve an agreement. but at least this was the best solution for everyone, because presently there is no best solution for natal. there's no good solution natal. simply these continue and trying to use your brain as a weapon against the russian and until the moments that they will not be able to continue to do so on that moment. natal, one to any kind of excuse to go to your parking for this possibly like to share their work at least 5 attempts made by russia to achieve reach a peace deal. the 1st one, it was not because you bring this even want to be plus because the brand names were forced to buy in west. we have decided to say this many, many other funds and not to believe that this was the dance. there were several

others. i don't believe that you, brandon's are pretty comfortable on, continue fighting against russia and every day listening to the news and watching it with the and reading at the same time that another village another. another place passed full and at the same time, dozens or hundreds of you bringing the gary personnel has died. i don't believe that they actually accept it to continue fighting is a solution? well, i'm it. but yeah, aaron, if you, if you know, if you're in the zalinski gang, i don't know how they cut up the spoils here. but i mean, it's an amazing griffith. i mean, well keep it going as long as they possibly can. i'm sure they've got planes on the tarmac to fly them to miami or tell a be okay or wherever they're going to go. i mean, this is at the end of the day that's a gripped and, and, and it, we have people like hunt, like hunter biting video was the spear of it all. go ahead aaron. yeah, it will be very interesting to see how this plays out. the in the game here with

these people because it's going to become clear to the training is if it's not already that they have been robbed and sold down the river by these people. i think that those is the carrot and the stick. far zalinski is that he can, you know, steal and embezzle, you know, millions and millions of dollars from the money that the us gives you train. but he also faces that potentially happy you tries to reverse course. i think that the not the is own people by his own people. he has a nazi contingency that believes that this is some sort of eschatological conflict for them internet and saying, you know, an area and back and waterways that i don't even understand where uh is the end of the day. uh, a lot of people going to leave and they going to be counting their money and no one will be held accountable for this catastrophe that never should have happened. gentleman that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guest in lisbon,

felt philadelphia and in san francisco. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time and remember across across the

there was a time when i started to was abused, new thing, flowers divided the continental block for the amounts themselves. it was divided as a hunting ground. if we do not do not the corner knives as we come out again, we know that they are those who want the mazda continent to stop and 8, but the mazda clinton, and can never be stopped. because the mazda continent must be great. she will only be great on the shore, does of us sons and daughters on by the sweat, all day bro. all kinds of goodwill, time full on let us confess about underground east

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