[000:00:00;00] the i was completely unaware of mister dorval's visit to cross. that's quite normal by the way, because i've never been aware of the comings and goings of nationals from all over the world. whether they have french nationality or not. as a manual about con claims he wasn't aware of, but the tech cheapest plan to visit problems back in 2018. differentially. they repeatedly dined with cut the ground co founder, people do it all when the messaging up was convenient for the way it's a symbolic moment where somebody is clearly being held accountable for things that he didn't do. but that almost certainly is, is going on inside his platform, the american john left to expose washington's censorship. of course, the says, do it all being charged,

but what do you have absolutely nothing to do. so in general, we advocate that the situation in the sahara said, hell regions should be the subject of agreements by the african countries themselves, pressures a foreign minister right there highlighting most coast on self and non interference in the affairs of african countries. that's well, denmark closes, it's embassies and molly investigative fast. so what tempting to put pressure on that pair of nations of defense ministry confirming losing its 1st episode, 165 to gesture and a russian miss all attack, while a ukrainian politician suggest friend leave via is what broke down on the 16th the live on the world wide here, what are you getting before we joined by a special guest here in the studio for right now here on the program? was it a set up?

the french president has denied media reports that a meeting had been prepared for him with people do it off prior to his arrest and powers, and manual macro on times he had nothing to do with a telegram, co founder being detained. it didn't go simple sims and it as far as i'm concerned, i was completely unaware of mister dorval's visit to france. that's quite normal by the way, because i've never been aware of the comings and goings of nationals from all over the world. whether they have french nationality or not before it's not true that i issued any invitation whatsoever. it's totally false. why was not supposed to see mr. do it off either at the end of last week or in the days to come? now, as people do it all phases up to 10 years in prison, if found guilty on a slew of charges, the french capital is free for you with support for him over now as well contributor rachel moss and diving into how do it off to and from a western darling into escape goes back before the front state. consider telegraph founder, pub, elder of

a pariah facing preliminary charges on everything from eating and imbedding drug trafficking to organized crime and propagation of child porn. because simply founding an app apparently now means that you're literally driving the getaway car for every criminal that happens to use it. you're off somehow found the time is busy crimes free to dine with french president a menu and back home. 6 years before pavel juror of land is in a french holding cell. the anti establishment, founder of the message in that telegram was in a very different position in france. having lunch with president the manual ma crone. at the luncheon 2018 which hasn't been previously reported, the cron invited the russian born durrell to move telegram to paris. people familiar with the discussion said, drove, declined at the time, the french liter even discussed granting french citizenship to him. one of the people said, it sounds like nicole,

the leader of list stuff definition was all up in their arms grill, talking about making it official with a naturalization that was mysteriously fast tracked and also proposing that telegram be moved to france. when pressed about that naturalization, my call just said then something that he personally does, basically for rich guys and making effort to speak french, that i've been using this with you. also, in terms of naturalization, it is indeed a decision that we made in 2018 as i recall, which was taken in a completely assume strategy to allow men and women who are office athletes entrepreneurs to become citizens. often they make the effort to learn the french language, and these are people who develop wealth and innovation in the world, and they are welcome to become french citizens. so i made sure that mr. du, or off became one of them, just like i did with mr. spiegel, an american entrepreneur as well as the mac doesn't athletes. i am in the state of law where justice operates independently. so what happened here?

well, let's just say that they initially really liked his branding a russian who had a spot with moscow over the app, which in their branding stands for freedom. and it was briefly banned in 2018 in russia, sparking protests around the country in favor of a free internet, complete with paper airplane prop symbolizing telegrams logo. so this is the kind of thing it can be leveraged by the state department that's constantly trying. and to parlay any unrest, injuries in change says who an actual former state department official telegram is, is very, very powerful vehicle for the us state department to be able to mobilize protests, to be able to galvanized political support. the national endowment for democracy was actually paying the main administrators of the telegram channels, who were orchestrating those rights. those protests, not employees of telegram, but people in general, administrators, the people are using it or organizing others to use right? us and french,

shared military intelligence and diplomatic and economic interest in or in arresting problem. and finally, getting the leverage they have craved for so long to be able to both control, con, kilograms, content, migration practice. but also, you know, the ability to get this backend access to it for, you know, to just read every russian text message, effectively tell them apparently featured so prominently as an activist tool in the ronnie and protest in january 2018 as the most popular messaging app in that country that ends up being permanently banned just a few months later under the pretext of national security. so it's around this time that you're off is being wined and dined by not home. according to the french press, with not cool, really, not seeming to mind what was brewing behind, telegrams close of encryption as long as it was causing problems for others. now around that time, back home was also like, hey, why don't you get your little app over here?

and he was when there was pretty much pressuring drugs to relocate the app to friends. meanwhile, telegram went on to hell back to this communicate with each other during the western backed protests in hong kong, again, spacing, which of course were framed by the western process totally organic and leader this because the u. s. of course has absolutely no interest in using home or taiwan against china as we seen over and over again. but more of recently the office been linked to this summer's anti migrant unrest in britain and has started to come under fire from western governments like spain, norway, in germany as it proliferates across the globe. it's really not hard to see how the same western governments that apply to its role as a facilitator of democracy in other countries may not appreciate doing the same at home to the point where it suddenly becomes convenient to point out that it's not just freedom. finding activists who are cruising down telegrams, encrypted information, highway,

but also an assortment of sex pass terrorists and money monitors. and just as conveniently, any roadblocks that they're able to set up through lothair against or off or otherwise would just happen to allow them to peer right. into everyone's car window rushes foreign ministry spokesman says that while macro on claims to be a free speech, defend the sofa. he has done precisely the office and mano mccomb during his speech in belgrade. so this is not about political persecution of due of but about legal proceedings. i think the next question to my chrome will be, what is it like to be in the place of those whom you ground? the slick used yesterday of what you doing today by numerous requests. we're playing the song, try walking in my shoes by depression mode for manual from sunny batteries, neighborhood from i told you to host

a garland nixon who said it is unlikely that do it off will receive any fed trial. he says the west is to obsess in his prosecution. i don't have any confidence that um, even if uh the go to court that the owner of telegram could possibly get a fair trial based on the kind of things that have happened in the west. recently. i mean, if you look at what happened with julian assigns, if you look at recently what's been happening with the correct down, whether it's uh, richard met her, scott ritter on various people who say things that are controversial regarding the government narrative is what's called the rules based or basically in that is that the united states and its allies, or in this instance it's colonies in europe, can do anything they want to. they have, as long as they have the permission of the united states, of course the united states will try to use, you know, clause will deniability. this is to me i, i firmly believe that us intelligence is a part of this. and that basically, they're doing effectively what, what was called in the past by the c, i a extraordinary rendition. and what they would do in the past is if they wanted someone tortured rather than bring them here, what would be

a legal they would have a, one of their uh, you know, a host country kidnapped the person and they would, they would torture them somewhere else. they would farm out their dirty work. personally, i believe that us intelligence is farming out their dirty work to france, so that france can do it. and i think they're really upset and not because of the, the actions that were taken. whether it's, you know, child abuse, etc, child for advocating. i think they're really upset because they don't have a back door so that they can utilize telegram for their intelligence activities around the world. quote, a power dimes shifting moment. that's how investigative journalist about how you'd be, his brand new, the french prosecution, all people do it off with a type, a who's known for exposing twitter is previous collusion with the american government says the rest of the telegraph founder is a new low for media censorship. just for now, here's a taste of mass interview with the option or at times the ongoing underground. you

can watch it all day on saturday and things worse now than when you would documenting the censorship in the twitter files is often yeah, no, this moment in time, especially the, the arrest and the attention of durham is a paradigm shifting moment. and i think the history of kind of free expression in the west. uh yeah, that there been rumors and threats and there been there's been a lot of saber rattling in the direction of people like you on musk ever since the passage of the digital services act in europe to the effect of you must comply or else there will be crippling penalties, but the detention aspect of it is something that's completely new coupled with threats by former national security executives like alexander vin. here in the states is this the united states behind the scenes of acting to attack and durham of a head of

a us election in november. and how would we find that out? it would be very difficult to find out. i've heard so many theories about what actually happened and you know, in the last 3 or 4 days, there are a lot of people who believe that it's specifically connected to the war and ukraine . that there are issues that the united states military or middle has with communications on telegram. but in the bigger picture is, it really doesn't matter. there's a perception issue here, which is that whether he was, you know, arrested because of local french violations, which is what the french government claims. whether it was for following the file, the dsa, as some european officials hinted at before his arrest or whether it was something else. all the exec tech executives have been generally on notice for a while now that they are going to be held accountable in one way or another for

the behavior of their own customers. and this is just the, it's a symbolic moment where somebody is clearly being held accountable for things that she didn't do, but that almost certainly is, is going on inside his platform. and so as a manual that kroner visits belgrade, serbia's president says, his country's independent political stands remained sfa. the western journalists always say, we suspect so bad that they want to do something together with the russians. i'm not going to apologize for this. i am proud to serve this policy and the fact that we have always respected do an child to which could not be said above many western countries, especially when it comes to the territorial integrity of sylvia. i know that the amount of them a call and would like us to impose sanctions against russia, but we did not do this and we are not ashamed of our decisions. and i do not want

to justify myself to you for this. i explained my political steps to my people, all these other which added that he has no illusion. the e. u isn't ready to accept. so be as a member of state within the blog saying that bell grades, software and policies are able to bring benefits to its own people. that's while the slovak prime minister slammed the mindset of europe and later saying it's time to face the truth. they're entitled opinions and not the only ones that not, or do you need us to put you on a, let's be honest and say that we, your opinions are not perfect either. it's interesting, but we are opinions, have a special quality. we always have a feeling and we regularly fall into this trap that we have the right to decide for others and to decide what is right and what is wrong, that we have the right to tell others. this is how you should conduct your affairs, that we have the right to say that you cannot write this. you cannot say this,

or you cannot go and participate in the olympic games. these are dangerous things because we live in an illusion. we think the world cannot survive without the solution. if someone has a sovereign or independent opinion, it is immediately suppressed. we think that with sections we will solve the problem of the whole world. well, let's have this conversation with us go screws me conversation. i'd say, let's take a photo and i'll see i like saw the private just joining us right now. so be a member of parliament from the we the power of the people party. it's so good to get you. you know, we always told from a distance around bell gray to somewhere on location, but today you'll hear the oxy international mother shape. it's so good to have you right to be here. i'm very grateful to have you here. this is a the story we're on right. now, i mean, we just showed some comments, mountains on the food church, he's saying that his country is still committed to maintaining an independent policy. but it's a good sign if that is, you know, not taking part in and see russia sanctions. and i'm, i'm, i'm does, is it tough for you this one? cuz it flies in the face of is western partners and colleagues what,

how do you think footage has managed to stay on course like this? well, he's, he's giving more more lip service to this. yes. he will never introduce sanctions. and the main reason for that is that the polls consistently show that not 80 percent of the serbian public is against sanctions and it will be political suicide for anyone to impose sanctions. the other thing is there is the presence of china that and so it'd be off china's invested a lot, especially an infrastructure approach projects, the belt and road initiative. there's a part of the infrastructure of the network going uh high speed railways being built this both to connect eventually, budapest to paris and greece. uh so uh for that reason alone. uh, so it'd be

a can of cannot afford to turn away from lets say china. yeah. uh west cannot replace that off. however, i was visit by mcroy on, i think is, uh, is a bit of, uh, it's pushing for the. so it'd be more to the west and the chrome side of himself, especially big because of the purchase of the 12 roof fall, a fighter planes. mclean said him self yesterday that that was a strategic change. and uh, serbia has always used ever since. what are the end of world war 2 is use the russian technology russian airplanes. and uh and uh, this is a big, big change. this is not just the purchase of fighter planes. this is all so you're getting into us spare parts, power training. you're pretty much dependent on a nato country for very, very important set of weapons. yeah. as far as,

as pretty by design as well to keep it kind of latched onto a hook. what about december alexandra in december? so be a, so anti government protest happening when many was suspecting western involved when that could have been some external players involved. um, if that was external players involved with these protests, why would they be external players involved? well, but you know, that's a big question. it's very complicated and it's obvious that in both the west, the way just when i say the west, i mean the, you and the united states, they were using part of the what pro western opposition to pressure of which the people who become more cooperative. right. and we have new protests now and so be as well, we've had, we had them this summer, we'll probably have them this fall. it's specifically a link to or the revival of this michael lucy in my, in my uh,

rio 10 till. yeah. and there's very big public opposition to that. and this time the protests, funnily enough, or seem to be also western. encouraged by the west. yeah. uh and uh, the former prime minister. she's now the speaker parliament on a broad burnett which set at the beginning of the year that actually it was kind of a devious plan by the west at the same time, the person who has to accept 3 attempt to buy them. the other hand bills encouraged protests against sam to week and yeah, exactly. yeah. and it's a double game. yeah. uh. and it seems to be working because this uh, the purchase of the roof falls is very controversial. i sort of yeah, because most of most serves are probably russian oriented. yeah. so i think they got what they want of. they may try to tell them down to protests. so supports for the protests, but the protests are probably not gonna die down. so as a result, i think, which is trying to buy the goodwill of france and part of the you by purchasing we're

a falls by making other strategic agreements with france. i'm going to. so he says in that, in that sense perhaps that he thinks that might try to quail the protests or maybe call the n g o. so a foot man, i think the protests. yeah. he actually wants to the west to tone down the pro to interesting. it's a tough comment and you know, you're sitting in 2 chairs at once, you know you're trying to appease this side. you're trying to appease this side as well it's, it's going to be a very delicate balance. and if you're not prepared to do that, that like a dog, you could wind up like the streets. so taking a couple of bullets to the stomach because of rouge, it shows previously said that he had received fritz then of cool, slow. so about us feed. so you got shot out of this? yeah. when, when is violence become a tool to deal with someone over the opposite opinion or i think for the west has been using it for a long time. we have a we have experience actually with violence ourselves the 21 years ago the serbian

prime minister was assassinated. so in june judge and he said that uh that he was, he was, but he was considered to be pro western. he was a western darling until he started raising the issue of costs a lot and the west working on encouraging secession. and once he started bringing that up in public, we're just a matter of time. he said he pretty much felt that all the support from the west just disappear. yeah. and it's, it's pretty much the majority opinion in serbia that actually it was some there was a western powers that fit him in the face stand behind the assassination. yeah. was something similar as luckily fits fits so stayed alive. yeah. but that's par for the course for the west. it. yeah, it, i mean, you know, whether it's political assassinations or, or attempts at that. it does seem the, i don't know how to put it, you know, the deep se powers and the world today. the, it's almost like there are no holds barred. you know, i mean, some people say,

for example, the russian military is, in a sense, had cost by its sense of morality and principle. and, you know, playing by the so called rules are a little fat. but the western guys and ukraine, they called no rules based on principles and morals that they, they don't, they don't is no holds barred, you know, no, and you know, if, if we help the v as early army to the same standards as the russian army, you know there should be a big outcry about what's going on in gaza. yeah, there isn't. so it's obvious. once again, we can go back to this saw the slogan that we hear from the west, the rules based order. yeah, that's not the same as international law. yeah, yeah, look, the rules based international order, according to those who would like to dictate, as i called, international or as accurate, alexander, the private, you know, look, next time we're going to have to talk for longer because it's always so good to pick your brain. but at least not a package, it is a is a sub and, and pay from the we, the power of the people policy. joining us life or the arch international mothership in moscow. stick around,

we gotta talk more of our okay. thanks very much for it was right here. thank you very much. thank you. well, russian relations with center goal as well as all the african countries are based on mutual respectful political independence and most of insist that africa should deal with this a fast independently. and so what, according to russia's for enterprise minister, who spoke at a press conference with his senegalese count upon us. so we have the same or similar approaches to most of the key issues of world politics, russia, and send a goal, are committed to the basic principles of international law, including the sovereign and quality of states, non interference in their internal affairs. and of course, respect for the right of peoples to independently determine the ways of their political and socio economic development. in general, we advocate that the situation in this a harris, that held region should be the subject of agreements by the african countries themselves senior go. meanwhile, denmark has just announced the closure of his embassies and this

a hell nations of motley and, but again, a fast. so it was part of his new africa strategy inside here's a series of military coups and this a hell region over recent years. so this report will break it down now in job of policies. don't ever come and the inside pick msi, because the upon it takes us a hell reason as it moves to as a focal point of sifting alliances once again, modeling is in between a fossil erstwhile stalwarts of the t 5. so how a light is not only serve a ties with a few, but they have turned towards the width is adversary's man to the pivot has now begun to show the impacts of some of those long standing relationships. denmark, one has become the latest wisdom come see, to close the embassies in marty, and putting a fossil following the likes. stuff, always sweet an ad from us. have a listen to this. we have a clear interest in the african countries looking towards us in europe as they chopped the costs for the future. we must demonstrate that we offer an attractive

alternative to the increasing chinese and russian influence on the continent. ok, so the close embassies. deadlock pads open year in business. incentive go to these . yeah. and one to these locations seemingly bit to surfing its strategic interest and enhancing relationships within reach is 8 times more stable and promising. yet denmark had absolutely no qualms that have been embassies in countries ruled by western fact dictates us with a case. and from the states who said, we all seen such an agent, one could easily see that the width is doing to this, the house, what it's been doing to rush to for us to practically isolate to the countries. because of the inconvenience, independent foreign policies, and the recent patch of, of times, the ukraine by monte m. z. also not making things any easier, as you to know that choosing moscow over 2 of his bond to land in the country to the blacklist off the west. and while they tried to paint the picture of a will to not to the i think is watch. the reality shows that there is

a more complex picture in the one is one of the prominent regional giants taking a new wants to approach to the ukranian conflict, refusing to be told who it can and can be friends with, despite washington's free shot, i've been glad to see again, the strength of the international alliances come together to, to support you, printer is in its efforts to defend itself. and so i think that's the important the piece here is to try to protect and preserve the international order. we understand . india is a long relationship with russia, and india has to make it sound determinations about where it's wants to be on, on the scale. the balanced approach to the conflict is a bit as solve the global south imaging as a strategic force. and it's available to many countries, no longer wants to be exclusively tied to a use needs blocking voltages. this is,

of course, in contrast to denmark and is in line with washington's blue book. i have, i'm distance themselves from money in between a bustle while keeping the close eyes, which african countries will be most useful in the future, in terms of natural resources in 2051 and every 4 people in the world. we live in africa one and every field, the once you will be african during these developments that you must for it's efforts to be the, prefer the boss know the african countries and ensure that it is able to deliver what is needed. they continue to stay. so need to adopt a proactive approach to accountants, a needs and a russian influence on the african continent advocating for a more comprehensive state to see when in reality, the factual for resources, the will say foreign policy in years to come, even as african states themselves are clear about how they see the admission is quite clear that despite the end of colonial menu,

wisdom power has continued to exploit the continents of sources. and people in many ways that to perpetuate a scene of modern day slavery. and that needs to stop. so this low closing pair released consider that we belong to them and a wealth also belongs to them. they think that they are the ones who must continue to tell us what is good for our state africa, our continent that suffered so much because of being paranoid, this arrow is gone forever. our resources will remain for us in our populations. it seems that denmark is only listen, go of money and became a fuss. so because like many wasted with nice is, it's telling us is off maintaining a foothold, and the region looks quite slim. but positioning itself closer to the states does not $65.00, a major change and it's fine. policy on the continent allows us to focus a new applicant. strategy simply means new lyrics is like the same old you can find it's west and partners have been claiming the f sixteens going to be

a game changer in the ukraine conflict. but now the 1st one has gone down in flames . your training defense ministry at allen's, the multi role, 5 digit quote crashed in an ad defense mission, while taking on a salvo of incoming russian missiles. the pilot was killed in the incident. however, as not entirely clear how it all happened. while key of says pilot error was not the cause of the crash. ukrainian m. p. 's says the f 16 was actually pulled down by friendly fire with american, with according to my information, the ukrainian f. 16 was shot down by the patriot anti aircraft missile system due to discord nation between units. the reports noted, but he lost control. war is war, such episodes, all possible, but the culture of lies in the come on, you crazy and forces, as well as in all the senior military headquarters leads to the fact that the

military decision management system does not improve on the basis of truthful, consistently collected analytics, in fact, it was since and even collapses, as it happens in the pop cross direction. none of the generals have been punished, went off a few cranes, patriots system, which of course was provided the key by washington could have been behind the crash . the pentagon had this to say, i cannot confirm the incident, i'd refer you to the craniums to speak to their own operations. we, as the united states are tracking b, s, explains that. we appreciate the question, but i'm just not going to get into any more specifics about the answer that a wall street journal report says that the f. 16 survive the key of, of honorable to russian that defense is adding ukrainian pilots, lack of road experience. the size, many of the aging jets have already been in use for decades. a retired us apples, lieutenant colonel cameron could cowski says west of the military equipment simply