the, the things that, that the about confident about was that what was thought of tons, that blue and that blue. uh no. uh no. you. oh, all right. oh, sorry. yeah. oh yeah. come to the clear now, soon as you have mentioned that egypt would not into fab between issues that is, that are going on between the somalia and, and uh if you will. yeah. but the deal that has been signed with somalia right now . how do you think it's going to impact the relations between these 2? you'll be add somebody a knowing that there are efforts towards mediation that is ongoing right now. you know that the so if you don't be i that and thought fear ends that and tell them that they've got a ton of notice of periods of sol madhya. oh oh, but anything was the brand for you? it is on the so called additional money and then and did he wanted to make a mandatory and navy ports on the land of so malia and diseases,

no one followed that measured up stupidity of some of the photos that there is on egypt. that agent am thought of putting it on. and so madea and total number of periods, part of the reason they assigned does this lots on quote about the show and the defense agreements on board. and so for manya is an autopay is on autopay, and it is an automatic parent company. what does that 3 zone? so we have lots of code at the joint defense of on the debate waiting on that are because they what about the reason? i think that this agreement it but event, if you will be a from a fan on the desktop for the admissibility of so media. and this is going forward is that huge and hand over the whole of africa. and does that a t, n boy knows that 0 to minute increments that subject,

invest area and adds up volume, weight, noise, activision and instead of nice not to bought, you had both things that if you will be a log me point is that as sort is your voice nation and does your blood because most ancient and base area. all right, we have to leave you here. now. major general mohammed abdullah, i'll show holly from my chief of staff, of the chemical welfare department of the diction armed forces. thank you so much for your time with us right here. thank you very much. great. a. now that's the update. now, thanks for watching out the back and go with most stories i top of the by now the

. the hello and welcome to cross ok. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, outgoing nato general secretary stilton burg claims. a russian victory in the ukraine. conflict is the biggest risk to the us led military blocks. this is all the more reason russia will achieve its goals in this proxy war. the cross talking nato and joined by my guest ray mcgovern in raleigh. he is a former c. i a analyst in washington. we have wumer, liam. he is a political scientists author and radio talk show host and in salt lake city, we crossed to david pine. he is deputy director of national operations for the task force on national and homeland security. all right,

gentlemen. crosstalk rules and the fact that means it can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate re, let me quote, the outgoing general general said try and make yourself number of he said, a russian victory and ukraine would change the global system. well, i actually agree with him and i think it wouldn't be a bad idea. go ahead, right. well, yeah, i'm reminded that just 3 weeks ago who changed himself. talked about starting back and said that, you know, he dealt with them when he was present the driveway and at that point he showed no signs of dementia. this is the thing i remember about steinberg. most of all is his fold paused grunt day before the d u parliament on let's say of september 7 last year where he said, you know, the russians. so offered us some deal. yep. um, you know, if, if you stop trying to get your credit in there, so we was not in days so it was no way to print that out. all we, well is

a reset. oh is, and the store, they invaded it, got the guy looked the kind of the bag, right. that it is, you created nato. this time we communicate is pretty much the same as last time when we all agree where that seems appropriately conditions are right. but the whole thing has to do with russia needing reassurance, right? that ukraine will be neutral and nobody seems willing to even enter chain that notion. so maybe stall bird is showing signs now of incipient, so it may be mid term dementia. what the thing? well, what we, it's hard to say with him is an individual that i can clearly say the as an organization, it's 75. ok. it started a little early in the case of nato, but there is certainly a demented point of view there. wilma, one of the interesting things is we had a pending unofficial saying, nato is preparing for a prototype for a protracted wars. i thought it was

a defensive alliance. so i mean it, they think they constantly blur or what their mission is here. i mean, well, if you're defensive alliance, why do you have to expand? no one's explained that to me. well, it's a defense is supposed to be a defense of alliance. i think the n a, a nato is a north atlantic. they're trying to expand into the pacific. they talk about championing human rights, but they somehow decided to invade libya. they can't seem to understand and what their mission truly is. and also it's important understand that really, their mission has their tenure, their mission has passed and i think the leadership knows that the, that the jig is up. they know that their time is over, but they're sitting in this vacuum talking to themselves and encouraging themselves . so that they can reinforce their own insecurities. i mean we see for example in

the washington post, they say that they are trying to trump proof of nato. and in order to prevent trap from doing any damage to nato, or to prevent the elimination of nato itself. well, that right there tells you that they clearly understand that their time is wayne and final point. as they talk about, they have to have victory in ukraine. the premise that they're using is because if russia wins, they will take over europe take over the world and then move on to the moon. know what that demonstrates is that may to itself will collapse. and i don't know how big they can expand geographically, but they don't have any bullets because they're out of weaponry. so who are they going to fight? what are they gonna fight with? well, you know, david, the whole point. i mean, if you look at the origins of nato,

which kind of make sense, that was the cold war of the soviet union, had its own military block, the warsaw pact, and came into existence after the establishment of nato. it was an ideological struggle and of primarily for the soviet union was to maintain its gains and the 2nd world war and to have security against a revenge as west germany, weak cetera, et cetera. but then the nato up to date doesn't think in terms of security at all. because the, because if you had a security architecture in europe, you wouldn't need nato because it wouldn't be a new architecture would include russia and be with russia that we have, it's against russia without russia. that's nato's afraid of that because then it would risk its own existence. david, i absolutely right. yeah. so nato was a lot of those bits of alliance up until the end of the. so we do again. when the

worst off pack was disbanded, the data should fall well, the biggest span shortly thereafter, as well. 1994 when all russian troops were withdraw from eastern europe. um, at this point uh, you know, natal began to be in a pensive alliance with uh, its uh, brutal bombing of uh, of serbia yugoslavia and 1999. and uh, it has been mentioned its continued in with, uh, live, use syria, um and canal in the parade. and theres uh, you know, the only the only past due to security for nato never states is by having some kind of mutual security braimer. notice that event i, uh, with the, with russia price, there's really no other path. and so, but david, we, we had that with the soviet union with the helsinki process. we had that, okay, the indivisibility of security. we had that, okay. and, and re now the us as a noun, so they will deploy previously band, new killer capable missiles to germany. we're going backwards re,

we had the i n f treaty. we're going backwards re yeah, peter, you know, i go back to the abm treaty, which gave us a strategic stability for 30 years, 3 decades count them. i was instrumental in that treaty. i was so chief of the soviet our policy bridge. and we told kissinger next and that the russians are really serious about this. they didn't want to spend themselves into oblivion and they were afraid. china was going to steal a march on them. we provided the a for all of her i the the trust but verify. we provided the verification stuff and and that was an ad in scott ritter as squared sort of my my life's work. notice stage. okay, now you have scott ritter is life square. the neutral, the immediate range,

nuclear forces treaty cup put that last the 30 till years from get out of that. and now as you say, there's a special arrangement where new medium range, ballistic missiles are going to go with the german or just like the pershing two's way back in the eighty's per guide. say, we're just dried them in the eighty's. it surprised the hell out of me that we could agree with the rushers to destroy a whole class of nuclear missile, but we didn't. now we're back to square one or even worse. so i have some words to say about the f sixteens as well, but perhaps go ahead and went ahead and go, go ahead, go ahead, right, go ahead as well. you know, i was thinking back to when f sixteens or got came to the for a bite in was there. japan box fell after losing hundreds of thousands of ukrainian troops. right. i zalinski goes off to tokyo to the g. 7. we're biting is, is that where your last fight in turn? so sullivan says, what we're gonna do?

i'm the, how about, yeah, let's do maps exchange and that's when buttons and now it says that he's going to let our allies go met 16. now that's the kind of decision making. i mean, did they check with the pedagogy, the checklist? but no, no, no, that's we need those up right away. now what's gonna happen when the eps experience get shut down? yep. and the, the other stuff puter is out. all these same people, there's a wellness, the pressure. yeah, we have this a low you blow your mind. you look player weapon. so maybe that's the only day we have now. well, it's a really nice thing. another to i'll tell it says, well, i'm right. yeah, i mean, the, the only, the only way forward for nato visa, the ukraine, is escalation. and what's really, what's at stake, the very existence of ukraine. and as, as ray is pointed out, they entering into the realm of thinking about a new killer war. i mean, this is going into the realm of insanity. go ahead and watch it as it is already in the realm of insanity in what re points out very,

very clearly is there is no strategy here. there is when you just say we were losing, what do we do now? oh, let's give them f sixteens. there's what is the desired outcome and results. and if the desired outcome end result is the, the do dissolving the russian federation. but that's just not going. but right, but we all know that's the goal. we all know that that's, that's just and i want to walk to the mood, but i don't think that that's going to happen anytime soon. and what they're willing to do is risk nuclear annihilation in pursuit of a fantasy, so that the military industrial complex or the mickey met as re,

likes to refer to it can generate more revenue now. okay, david, that's a good point in lieu of a strategy, let's just keep enriching the arms producers. okay. inside the beltway, so they can buy another house in the hamptons. go ahead. yeah, i mean, the strategy a big guy is for us to maintain its, uh, its iron grip on, on data, which is really just uh, you know, it's part of the americas liberal empire and consist of, uh, imperial dependencies are behind it states what we need to do here in the us is uh to transform us back to republic from empire and, and i think president trump is moving uh, you know, forward in that direction with a plan to restructure nato. hold us troops out of the eastern europe. perhaps even a hand over the david where i get it, we're approaching the bank here, but it took trumpets elected on that platform. don't you think they'll in peach in before and all your ration? well, it depends on whether there's, it's a, you know, it's

a democrat control house. i mean, if he wins, uh, we're gonna, you know, republicans will keep the house. so i don't. okay, well i, i think i'm honest, i'm being kind of facetious. but i think that they would have someone, lindsey graham would lead really the charge. right, gentleman, i have to jump in here. we're gonna go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on nato at 75 years old. stay with are the the, the, [000:00:00;00]

the, [000:00:00;00] the, the welcome back across stock were all things are considered on peter level to remind you, we're discussing nato at 75 years old. the ok, let's go back to re, obviously, nato is not in the mood. maybe it's incapable of compromise,

even if in its own best interest, it's unwilling to compromise. but you know, as they're celebrating in washington, what comes to mind for me or broken promises? let me enumerate here, not one step in east. we met, that's 1st one ukrainian neutrality, another lie, indivisibility of security. i've already mentioned that on this program here. and of course we all remember the mens process here. so, um, even if there were miraculously a piece feler, why would the russians believe anything coming out of the current administration, particularly considering who is in the, in the oval office, right? because the russian were new for me. uh, the initial, was this most lovely, okay. incapable of reaching an agreement. okay, that's what they use now for the us. and in addition to the 3 you mentioned,

i would simply say that not many people know the biden told to chain directly in person on the telephone, on the 30th of december. yes, that the us for not deployed offensive strike muscles and ukraine. 3 weeks later geneva loved rough approach, blinker nature. what about that? we're talking about that now. i'm like, yeah, that's that. but forget about that. we have the right to put the opposite side process and you agree, and maybe we're talking about how many were put in. but so there was another one. and last but not least, of course, most as there's a lot of the agreement that was made out there in uh, in an east stumble uh, in march, april of 2020 to where the initials were on those agreements and bodies. johnson came in for you. okay. and so now, and no agreement, when any of these damn russians were gonna fight on, fight on and will give you everything you need to prevent. yeah, well, it's all in. so you made a very poor choice app, but now we see the results of all that. well, i mean,

but i'm sure his bank account has a benefit enormously and the people around him. i mean, he's not even the legal president. okay. he's head of the cube regime. well, and what are the interesting things that i've been watching over the years? is you know, we even at this summit and watch and then they're talking about expansion. okay. i it continuing to do so in the balkans a and then going into central asia. i if i'm not mistaken, an official from armenia was invited to the to the conference so. but it seems to me that ne toes ambitions are not just as we see it right now, but they want to replace the united nations. we have, there's a rules based order. they have their own sense of, of legality is against international law. it's against international institutions, and this is, this is kind of nato's a. it's a vehicle for the united states maintain, had gemini,

go ahead and washington. and as we know with the rise of the shanghai cooperation organization and the operative word, there is cooperation with the rise of of bricks with the rise of the organization of the set health states. the time for this imperialist expansion has ended, the folks at may till they just haven't gotten the memo yet. and because now the ship nato is a militaristic organization. and when you look at the seo, when you look at bricks, when you look at the shanghai, when you look at the health states, they are operating collectively from an economic perspective. and this takes me quickly back to what i'm one of my favorite films, the godfather, when, when, when virgil, the turks, the lots on says tom, he says look, i don't like violence, i'm a business man. blood is expensive. and the united states wants to and especially

things to lindsey graham spread all the ukrainian blood he can get his hands on while these other countries are moving beyond that, starting their own currencies so that they can engage in trade. which leads to development. yeah, uh and development and gender security as well. david, you know, also kind of parting shot from the, the nature of conferences, a targeting china be and its claims of dual use technology is selling to the russians. they've never been really clear about that. but you know, a china is enabling russian ukraine, but it's in nato. it enabling other more as well and ukraine they, they never seem to get the balance. they are, go ahead, david, a stream we have a hypocritical for the us and data to argue that china is not allowed to aid aid to russia militarily or strategically. well, uh, you know, the us is providing

a long range missiles with which she hits the russian targets deep inside rush and even, you know, potentially missile defense radar. so to take out the, you know, chucks of a, a for us is a nuclear command control system. so uh, yeah it's, it's, uh, its time that, uh, we establish kind of a, a revised internet floor, which uh, reflects your national order is it currently exists with russia. china, us is a, is the only degree superpowers been without this empire of the us is established in europe. it re, you know, the ins and outs of government and decision making. who is making this a nato policy in washington, who is making ukraine policy in washington, who's making russia policy in washington to the seller selling name sullivan. i don't know the name blinking. and so a supporting actor or austin and victoria nolan, the hiding in the shadows for the ladies from still in the worst wing there. and

they're in control. and you know, maybe the best evidence of that is that on the way out of that is just this administrator is on the way out. and they decide that they'll pick china. now is the bidding why as the enable or uh say, say uh, and as the you know, as the blame for all this stuff. and if you look at china and they've already, as david said, call it out as hypocritical. but if you also look very closely at how the world is divided now, and india, just having come from a hot summer with food chain, and you looked at the nato folks. so did anyone notice anything this? think about all those nato poke. so $32.00 of them, you're all white, you're old, but like the rest of us. ok, they're all white, right?

well in and many of them are from countries that were the great colonial powers. same thing. that's exactly right. so the whole world sees that and how we have isolated russia and give me a break with isolated ourselves. and that's this very clear by moti shows that the mosque was very clear by, by this last gash. now as far as data is concerned, and nothing is going to happen in ukraine until after november, when in the us election, it takes place. but then data is got a really worry about. it's not in jeopardy and whether it's so has any useful usefulness at all, it might be quite well more. i mean that this is the thing, this is a craven choice that they, that nato is made. you know, it's almost like do or die. it's like as ex, essential, but it's a choice. they don't have to make this choice. they can say, well, you know, we should have a new security arrangement that's, that's what needs to be done. that's what russia offered before this all happened, but they can't do it as well. you put it in the context of do or die. i would put

it in the context of do or suicide. because the, the united states via nato started the conflict with russia via ukraine. the united states is trying, it's best to start a fight with china. the tie one there, you know, there is an adage on the corner, don't start and that won't be that. and they don't seem to understand that. so if you just stop trying to punch the, the, the adversary in the eye and sit down and have some conversations, maybe we can find them avenue to peace. but as gil scott heron says, ask them why they're fighting for, and they'll never tell you the economics of war. it was a david, even though there's a lot of bluster, you know, when you think about what, what the military capacity to be. don't we take uh, off the table on nucular capacity, the military's in, in, in nato. we're not that particularly strong,

but they're not really well funded. turkey has the biggest army, they're not getting involved in this at all here. i mean, it's a lot of a bureaucrats in my mind that have really pushing jobs and you know, they're threatening the global war, but this, but they, they don't really have capacity other than a new killer capacity. go ahead, david. yeah, this absolutely true. i mean, uh, the uh, britain, france and germany each can pro, deploy up to one brigade in eastern europe. whereas, you know, the u. s. can provide more than that. of course, maybe a couple $100000.00 troops if we, if we were to search. but in a rush it has uh, 12 combined arms arbys. uh they might have more now that's, that's how much they start out with. and a by triple the size of their, of their ground forces double this. you know, they increase their military by 50 percent. they increase the military spending by, by a double in their, their now it's

a cold war level. so of the spinning and the sizes of their armed forces. so, you know, us in nato or are much weaker than it than have been presented in, in a, in a conventional or even just the conventional. and i got a cyber war. i think russian would be victoria is i wouldn't, you know, wouldn't think that they, you know, russian troops would drive to the, to the looks channel. but certainly they could take all of eastern europe without a whole lot of difficulty where we got one minute left here. how will history remember this call con fabbing in washington this week as well? hopefully they'll get predicted below the headlines. hopefully they'll know that there's adequate proof. that rusher does not intend to go beyond ukraine, so to speak, the accords in each stumble. in march, april 2022 showed that 13 did stop and then it was double crossed. our case stopped before it took all right or ukraine. so why is it going to go to fall in the

english channel? so seldom has there been a case where some, some serious as so been adequately debunk beforehand. for god say rush, i did stop. it's not going to stop now. well, the problem is the gentleman with right out of time nato doesn't want to stop. that's the problem. i want to take my guess in raleigh, washington in salt lake city. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our dc. you next time. remember, prospect tools the the acceptance. and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do, you do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different whitelisted opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do have the state department c. i a weapons, bankers,

multi $1000000000.00 corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead, change and whatever you do. don't want my show stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time. but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change the way you you probably heard my little story. okay. the model girl that i got you, no problem seeing that on the out of the thing. 30 minutes. yeah, side of the drive i showed my brother through he was trying to help people for a lo so now i never looked at searches as being the same growl. i guess i lost my list. that's the outcome of chicago police. it'd be gang chicago is like, you get a photo of that police, you lose your life as another crap thing. another

could have been a doctor. a nurse could have been the next president. we can't keep losing people out here. the one thing is killed and several off as one to attend the training an attack on the residential buildings and the vehicle in the russian border region. talk no garage media reports, train laptops to bombs with use and pushing forward roster says it's 7 t ukrainian supply routes and the dumbass f. it's troops edge towards the typically important areas. a profile is tina in peace activist who is the rest of that. ha holden, by british police report at leap, overconfidence she'd posted on line with this cost of the issue with the british