the to the us led military blocks. this is all the more reason russia will achieve its goals in this proxy war, the cross sucking nato. i'm joined by my guess, ray mcgovern in raleigh. he is a former c i, a analyst in washington. we have wilmer liam, he is a political scientists author and radio talk show host and in salt lake city we crossed to david pine. he is deputy director of national operations for the task force on national and homeland security. all right, gentlemen, cross talk roles and the fact that means it can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate re let me quote the outgoing general general. so i try to make a self and bring he said, a rushing victory and ukraine would change the global system. well, i actually agree with him and i think it wouldn't be a bad idea. go ahead, right. well yeah, i'm reminded that just 3 weeks ago who changed himself talked about starting back

and said that, you know, he dealt with them when he was president the driveway and at that point he showed no signs of dementia. this is the thing i remember about stone. burger, most of all is his full pod grunt day before the e u. parliament on let's say of september 7 last year where he said, you know, the russians offer the said bill. yep. um, you know, if, if you stop trying to get your credit in there, so it was not in days so it was not okay. and they go all way. well, is that reset? oh, is in the store. they are very big. got the guy looked at kind of the bag, right? that it is you created a so this time with communicate is pretty much the same as last time. well, we all agree, what it seems, appropriately, conditions are right. but the whole thing has to do with russia needing reassurance,

right? that ukraine will be neutral and nobody seems willing to even enter chain that notion. so maybe stall bird is showing signs now of incipient, so it may be mid term dementia. well, the, the well, but we, it's hard to say with him as an individual that i can clearly say the, as an organization, it's 75. okay. it started a little early in the case of nato, but there is certainly a demented point of view there. wilma, one of the interesting things is we had a pending unofficial thing. nato is preparing for a prototype for a protracted wars. i thought it was a defensive alliance. so i mean they, they, they constantly blur or what their mission is here. i mean, well, if you're defensive alliance, why do you have to expand? no one's explained that to me. well, it's a defense is supposed to be a defense of alliance. i think the n a, a nato is a north atlantic. they're trying to expand into the pacific. they talk about

championing human rights, but they somehow decided to invade libya. they can't seem to understand and what their mission truly is. and also it's important understand that really their mission has their tenure, their mission has passed and i think the leadership knows that the, that the jig is up. they know that their time is over, but they're sitting in this vacuum talking to themselves and encouraging themselves . so that they can reinforce their own insecurities. i mean we see for example in the washington post, they say that they're trying to trump proof of nato. and in order to prevent trap from doing any damage, tomato or to prevent the elimination of nato itself. well, that right there tells you that they clearly understand that their time is wayne

and final point they talk about. they have to have victory in ukraine. the premise that they're using is because if russia, when they will take over europe, take over the world and then move on to the mon. know what that demonstrates is that may to itself will collapse. and i don't know how that they could expand geographically, but they don't have any bullets because they're out of weaponry. so who are they going to fight and what are they gonna fight with? well, you know, david, the whole point. i mean, if you look at the origins of nato, which kind of makes sense, that was the cold war of the soviet union, had its own military block, the warsaw pact, and came into existence after the establishment of nato. it was an ideological struggle and of primarily for the soviet union, was to maintain its gains in the 2nd world war and to have security against a revenge as west germany, weak cetera,

et cetera. but then the nato up to date doesn't think in terms of security at all. um, because the, because if you had a secure already architecture in europe, you wouldn't need nato because it wouldn't be a new architecture would include russia and be with russia that we have, it's against russia without russia. that's what nato is afraid of that, because then it would risk its own existence. david. absolutely right, yeah. so nato was a lot of the best of the lions up until the end of the soviet union. when the war sa pack was disbanded, a native should fall well bid his band shortly thereafter, as well as 1994. when all russian troops were withdrawn from eastern europe, um, at this point uh, you know, natal began to be in advance of alliance with the, its, uh, brutal bomb, you know, a survey of yugoslavia and 1999. and uh, is this been mentioned to continue to with the live use syria,

um and to now in the brain. and uh, there's uh, you know, the only the only path to choose security for nato never states is by having some kind of mutual security braver notice of the event i with the, with russia, right, as there's really no other path. and so, but david, we, we had that with the soviet union with the helsinki process. we had that, okay, the indivisibility of security. we had that, okay. and, and, and re now the us as a noun, so they will deploy previously band, new killer capable missiles to germany. we're going backwards re, we had the i n f treaty. we're going backwards re yeah, peter, you know, i go back to the abm treaty, which gave the strategic stability for 30 years, 3 decades count them. i was instrumental in that treaty. i was so cheap of the

soviet foreign policy bridge. and we told kissinger and next, and the russians are really serious about those. they didn't want to spend themselves into oblivion and they were afraid. china was going to steal a march on them. we provided the father, i a the trust but verify. we provided the verification stuff and, and that was an ad in scott ritter as squared sort of my my life's work. no stays. okay. now you have scott ritter is life square. the neutral the. it's a medium range nuclear forces treaty cop. put that last a 30 tell years from got out of that. and now as you say, there's a special arrangement where new medium range, ballistic missiles are going to go with the german or just like the pershing choose way back in the eighty's per guide. say we're just dried them in the eighty's. it surprised the hell out of me that we could agree with the rush just to destroy

a whole class of nuclear missile wizard. and now we're back to square one. or even worse, i have some words to say about the f sixteens as well, but perhaps go ahead and we'll go ahead and go ahead, go ahead, right, go ahead as well. you know, i was thinking back to when f sixteens or got came to the for a bite in was in japan, a barcode fell after losing hundreds of thousands of ukrainian troops. right. as a wind screen goes up to tokyo to the g. 7 were bite and is, is that where you last fight in turn? so sullivan says what we're gonna do and how about? yeah, let's give eps exchange and that's when buttons and now it says that he's going to let our allies go metric state. now that's the kind of decision making, i mean, did they check with the pedagogy to the checklist, but no, no, no, that's we need those up right away. now what's gonna happen when the 6th day is good, shut down. yep. and the, the other stuff puter is out are the same people there as a well,

mr. president. yeah, we have this a low you blow your mind. you look player weapon. so maybe that's the only day we have now. well, but he really likes raise, you know, the to, i'll tell it says a, well, i'm right. i mean, the, the only, the only way forward for nato visa, the ukraine, is escalation. and what's really puts, it stakes the very existence of ukraine. and as, as ray is pointed out, they entering into the realm of thinking about a new killer war. i mean, this is going into the realm of insanity. go ahead and watch it is. it is already in the realm of insanity in what re points out very, very clearly is there is no strategy here. there's, when you just say we were losing, what do we do now? oh, let's give them f sixteens. there's what is the desired outcome and results, and if the desired outcome end result is the did the dissolving

the russian federation. um, that's just not going but right, but we all know that's the goal. we all know that that's, that's just and i want to walk through the mean, but i don't think that that's going to happen anytime soon. and what they're willing to do is risk nuclear annihilation in pursuit of a fantasy. so that the military industrial complex or the mickey met as re, likes to refer to it can generate more revenue now. okay, david, that's a good point in lieu of a strategy which just keep enriching the arms producers. okay. inside the beltway, so they can buy another house in the hamptons. go ahead. yeah, i mean, the strategy a big guy is for us to maintain its, uh, its iron grip on, on data, which is really just uh, you know,

as part of the americas liberal empire and consist of imperial dependencies of united states. what we need to do here in the us is to transform us back to republic from empire and, and i think president trump is moving, you know, forward in that direction with a plan to restructure new. you know, all us troops out of the eastern europe. perhaps even a hand over the david where i get it, we're approaching the bank here, but it took trumpets elected on that platform. don't you think they'll in peach in before and all your ration? well, it depends on whether there's, it's a, you know, it's a democrat control house. i mean, if he wins, uh, we're gonna, you know, republicans will keep the house. so i don't. okay, well i, i take, i was, i'm being kind of facetious. but i think that they would have someone, lindsey graham would lead, read, lead the charge. right gentlemen, i have to jump in here. we're going to go to a hard break, and now it's about hard break. we'll continue our discussion on nato at 75 years old. stay with are the

are my little sister store? okay. the model girl to i got you. no problem seem to them out of the news thing. darkness, yes. out of the drive i showed my brother through he was sudden to hoping for a lo so now i never looked at searches as being saved. well,

i guess i lost my list. that's the outcome of chicago police. it'd be gang chicago is like, you get for the police, you lose your life as another crime, say another i could have been a doctor or nurse could have been the next president. we can't keep losing people out here. the russian states never as tight as i'm one of the most sense community best, most all sense and up the speed, the one else holes. question about this, even though we will then in the european union,

the kremlin media mission, the state on russia to day and split the ortiz full tech team and our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the payment services for question, did you say they requested the if you was thinking about russia, what does your mind picture the of the broader landscapes open up before your eyes? the last one does,

can you imagine the v discounts dodge the journey? the, are you ready to come along the welcome banks across stock? were all things are considered on peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing nato at 75 years old. the okay, let's go back to re, obviously, nato is not in the mood. maybe it's incapable of compromise, even if in its own best interest, it's unwilling to compromise. but you know, as they're celebrating in washington, what comes to mind for me or broken promises?

let me enumerate here, not one step in east. remember, that's 1st one ukrainian neutrality. another lie, indivisibility of security. i've already mentioned that on this program here. and of course, we all remember the minutes process here. so, um, even if there were miraculously a piece feler, why would the russians believe anything coming out of the current administration, particularly considering who is in the, in the oval office, right. as well as the russian were new for me. uh the lot, and this was this most lovely. okay. incapable of reaching an agreement. okay, that's what they use now for the us. and in addition to the 3 you mentioned, i would simply say that not many people know that biden told to chain directly in person on the telephone, on the 30th of december. yes, that's the us. we're not deployed often. so strike muscles in ukraine,

3 weeks later, geneva loved it off approach blinker nation. what about that? we're talking about that now. i'm like, yeah, that's that. but forget about that. we have the right to put the opposite side process and you agree? maybe we're talking about how many would put it in, but so there was another one. and last but not least, of course, most as there's a lot of the agreement that was made out there in uh, in an east stumble uh, in march, april of 2022, where the initials were on those agreements and bodies. johnson came in for you. okay. and so no, and no agreement where none of these damn russians, we're gonna bite on bite on and we'll give you everything i need to prevent. oh wow . so then, so you made a very poor choice app, but now we see the results of all that. well, i mean i'm, but i'm sure his bank account has a benefit enormously and the people around him. i mean, he's not even the legal president. okay. he's head of the cube regime. well,

and one of the interesting things that i've been watching over the years is, you know, we, even at this summit and watch and then they're talking about expansion. okay. um uh, it continuing to do so in the balkans a and then going into central asia. i, if i'm not mistaken, an official from armenia was invited to the, to the conference so, but it seems to me that ne toes ambitions are not just as we see it right now. but they want to replace the united nations. we have, there's a rules based order. they have their own sense of, of legality is against international law. it's against international institutions. and this is, this is kind of nato's a, it's a vehicle for the united states maintain, had gemini, go ahead and washington. and as we know with the rise of the shanghai cooperation organization and the operative word, there is cooperation with the rise of bricks with the rise of the organization of

the set health states. the time for this imperialist expansion has ended the folks at nato. they just haven't gotten the memo yet. and because now the ship nato is a militaristic organization. and when you look at the seo, when you look at bricks, when you look at the shanghai, when you look at the health states, they are operating collectively from an economic perspective. and this takes me quickly back to uh, what i'm one of my favorite films, the godfather, when uh when, when virgil, the church. so lots of says tom, he says look, i don't like violence, i'm a business man. blood is expensive and the united states wants to, and especially things to lindsey graham, spread all the ukrainian blood he can get his hands on. while these other countries are moving beyond that, starting their own currencies so that they can engage in trade,

which leads to development. yeah, uh and development uh, in general, security as well. uh, david, you know, also kind of parting shot uh from uh, the nato conferences, uh, uh, targeting china, be and its claims of dual use technology and selling to the russians. they've never been really clear about that. but you know, a china is enabling russian ukraine, but it's a nato, it enabling other more as well. and you crazy, they never seem to get the balance. they are go ahead david. yeah, it's extremely hypocritical for the us and data to argue that china is not allowed to aid aid to russia militarily or strategically. well, you know, the us is providing a long range missiles with which she hit russian targets deep inside russia and even, you know, potentially a missile defense radar. so to take out the, you know, chuck, so for us is a nuclear command control system. so yeah, it's, it's,

it's time that we establish kind of a, a revised international order which reflects your national orders. it currently exists with russia. china, us is a, is the only degree superpowers been without this empire of the us as established in europe. it re, you know, the ins and outs of government and decision making, who is making this nato policy in washington, who is making ukraine policy in washington. and who's making russia policy in washington, the spelling solid name sullivan, and the name lincoln. and so a supporting actor or austin and victoria nolan, the hiding in the shadows for the ladies from still in the west wing their and they're in control. and you know, maybe the best evidence of that is that on the way out of that is just this

administrator is not in the way out. and they decide that they'll pick china. now is the bidding why as the enable or as they say a and as the you know, as the blame for all this stuff. and if you look at china and they've already, as david said, called it out as hypocritical. but if you also look very closely at how the world is divided now, and india, just having come from a hot summer with food chain, and you're looked at the nato folks. so did anyone notice anything this? think about all those nato poke. so $32.00 of them, they're all white. they're all like the rest of us. ok. they're all white, right? well and, and many of them are from countries that were the great colonial powers. same thing . that's exactly right. so the whole world sees that and how we're of isolated

russia. gimme a break, we have isolated ourselves. and that's this very clear by moti shows that some odd square is very clear by, by this last gash. now as far as data is concerned, and nothing is going to happen in ukraine until after november, when in the us election, it takes place. but then data is got a really worry about its longevity and whether it's so has any useful usefulness at all. it might be quite well more. i mean, this is the thing, this is a craving choice then that nato is made. you know, it's almost like do or die. it's a s x essential. but if it's a choice, they don't have to make this choice. they can say, well, you know, we should have a new security arrangement that's, that's what needs to be done. that's what russia offered before this all happened, but they can't do it as well. you put it in the context of do or die. i would put it in the context of do or suicide because the, the united states via nato started the conflict with russia via ukraine. the

united states is trying, it's best to start a fight with china. the tie one there, you know, there's an adage on the corner, don't start and that won't be that. and they don't seem to understand that. so if you just stop trying to punch the, the adversary in the eye and sit down and have some conversations. maybe we can find them avenue to piece, but as gills got here and says, ask them why they're fighting for, and they'll never tell you the economics of war. it was a david, even though there's a lot of bluster, you know, when you think about what, what military capacity to be, don't we take uh, off the table on nuclear capacity. the military's in, in, in nato. we're not that particularly strong, but they're not really well funded. turkey has the biggest army, they're not getting involved in this at all here. i mean, it's a lot of a bureaucrats in my mind that have really pushed jobs. and you know,

they're threatening the global war, but this, but they, they don't really have capacity other than a new killer capacity. go ahead, david. yeah, this is absolutely true. i mean, uh the, uh, britain, france and germany each can per deploy up to one brigade in eastern europe. yeah. whereas, you know, the u. s. can provide more than that. of course, maybe a couple $100000.00 troops if we, if we were to search. but, you know, russia has, uh, 12 combined arms arbys. uh, they might have more now that's, that's how much they start out with. and a by triple the size of their, of their ground forces a double this, you know, they increase their military by 50 percent. they increase the military spending by, by a double in their, they're now at a cold war level. so of those spending in the sizes of their armed forces. so, you know, the us indeed or are much weaker than it than have been presented in, in

a, in a conventional or even just the conventional. and i had a cyber war. i think russian would be victoria is i wouldn't, you know, wouldn't think that they, you know, russian troops would drive to the, to the las channel, but certainly they could take that all of eastern europe without a whole lot of difficulty. right. we got one minute left here. how will history remember this guy and con, tab and washington this week, as well? hopefully they'll get paid up below the headlines. hopefully they'll know that there's adequate proof. that rusher does not intend to go beyond ukraine, so to speak. the accords in each stumble in march, april 2022 showed that 13 did stop and then it was double crossed. our case stopped before it took all right or ukraine. so why is it going to go to fall into the english channel? so seldom has there been a case where some, some serious as so been adequately debunk beforehand. for god's sake,

russia did stop. it's not going to stop now. well, the gentlemen were brought out of time. nato doesn't want to stop. that's the problem. i want to take my guess in raleigh, washington in, in salt lake city. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our dc. you next time. remember, prospect tools. the hi. i'm receptive and i'm here to play with you, whatever you do, do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different

opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please, or do you have the state department to see i a weapons bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't want my show stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way you during the 2nd will pull underground power military organizations in poland, occupied by german troops, as well as in the bordering regions of bella. ros. we're united into the so called home on may 5th, typically i couldn't figure out the up for you to send it to uh or the prospect just as close i use of the time list. uh, if i put in the front of it is as it gets to the ship when they put you through this issue, which aspect of the home um it was the main organization that zip code is

resistance. fighting against jim and occupation and soviet rule companies, dominion army, you away 1920 the level ship body shop. really unfair boys, folks. i didn't use. i'm just gonna put those on anything unusual this, you know, that's what i was the home on a county down operations to destroy the nazis. but then switch to settling schools with soviet partisans and the civilian population that supported them from having everybody to out of me car you over to destroy your customer, me today, but i didn't. and the other day i bought it from my goal is to be able to get the product is on the new product. that's pretty liberal in agreement, or just the booklet is devali. 60 those up levels to boys boys team and you got my soonest deal of when you have no heat suppressor skills. and we generally before you send me the truth, you, most of the the,

the 5 civilians are killed in thousands. one did have a ukrainian attack on residential buildings and the vehicle in the russian border region belgrade. fluffed the bombs were effected, has been used in the attack. and pushing forward, russia says it said that the premium supplier and so the dumbass has its fruits edge towards strategically important barriers. a profile athenian peace activist is invested upon home by british police and for the over confidence she posted online. we discussed the issue with the british parliamentarian and broad broadcast that george galloway fraternity is not yet a fascist the country, but is definitely on.