2 2 2 2 2 2 the, i'm out sooner, tennessee, and welcome back to a brand new season of going underground broke us to go around the world from the u . a 276 years ago this week, the french painted naveed was born. his depiction of the royalists, county trap is as a nation of adjoining, let's jump on. the raj would make and model this week, a front cic. used to being run by king. macro is at the center of global outrage up to friends captured and imprisoned. pabo durham of the russian. you a billionaire. see of the messaging up telegram as if to get ahead of things you as billionaire. all the golf facebook create a mock sucker bug responded by revealing his company method had been

a defective item of u. s. government censorship. he claims the bite and harris administration ordered him to conceal information on public health and the hum to abiding laptop story we covered on this show with form a new york man, rudy giuliani. back in 2020, both russia with shelters. and it's a whistleblower edward snowden. and the u. a are seeking information about the citizen bureau of joining me now from new jersey is the co publisher of the treasure files, which exposed mass united states covered censorship. award winning joining this map that you b is the best selling author of book. so just hate think why today's media makes us despise one and icons brief. he's a full that contributing as a rolling stone and current co host with the racket and use both cost america this week. my thanks so much for. finally, coming back on going on, be great. it's been so long. i heard you on your board costs actually say you are frightened to being on our team. this happens to be on the dates of independent production. you can criticize restoral, you like it goes out on the, you know,

right, i understand it, and i'm not sure everyone here would make that distinction. but i totally understand the distinction. he'd only make a lot of like number one that you think might compel. he wouldn't i think there are a lot of people who wouldn't understand there's a lot of not understanding that's that's in vogue now in america. let's go, let's get on to misunderstandings. i mean, one minute we're celebrating the release of julian, assign job to years of torture by the british. the next we have met a zack, a bug, claiming that the bible harris administration pressured facebook to break what the 1st amendment gives me. and then the french of what defective kidnapped telegrams 5 l dura visa on bail or something. now, i mean things worse now. then when you would, documenting the censorship in the twitter files is often yeah, no, this moment in time, especially the, the arrest and the attention of durham is

a paradigm shifting moment. and i think the history is kind of free expression in the west. uh, you know that there been rumors and threats and there been, there's been a lot of saber rattling in the direction of people like you on musk ever since the passage of the digital services act in europe to the effect of you must comply or else there will be crippling penalties, but there's a tension aspect of it. this is something that's completely new, coupled with threats by former national security executives like alexander vin. here in the states, after dresser as reminders who vin man is actually i think he tweeted out or something just on the news, the dural verbena, the captured by french security forces. yes. so he's a far white house official, a former national security council member, former and diplomat, he kind of rose to prominence during the 1st impeachment of donald trump. as

a witness against trump. uh in that affair has been, uh, you know, probably involved with the cream drama, but she tweeted after door ups arrest that you are most better take care essentially that the, you know, you better watch out a after this news because there is a growing appetite for accountability around the world, and, you know, that suggests that it's not just in europe that he's talking about and the bed is what's eye opening. i mean, many people commenting on the fact that western europe is appear to be suicidal in its attempt to support washington policy on the proxy war through ukraine. is this the united states behind the scenes of acting to attract juror of a head of a us election in november? and how would we find that out? it would be very difficult to find out. i've heard so many theories about what

actually happened and you know, in the last 3 or 4 days, there are a lot of people who believe that it's specifically connected to the war and ukraine . that there are issues that the united states military or nato has with communications on telegram. but in the bigger picture, it really doesn't matter. there's a perception issue here, which is that whether he was, you know, arrested because of local french violations, which is what the french government claims. whether it was for following a foul, the dsa, as some european officials hinted at before his arrest. or whether it was something else, all the exec tech executives have been generally on notice for a while now that they are going to be held accountable in one way or another for the behavior of their own customers. and this is just the, it's a symbolic moment where somebody is clearly being held accountable for

things that she didn't do. but that almost certainly is, is going on inside his platform and your colleagues, should i use that? would i go to? there's no longer a monk, steve journalists don't seem to, i mean the salzburg or families new york times your papers know treating it a bit like a joke. it says 13 is made of drugs, anti establishment streak, so it appears to have gotten them into a fresh round of trouble. and i mean, it even compared, they talked about snowden being and most go up to disclosing classified information . i mean, why do they think get some kind of joke in the united states that a postman basically because that's was drove running telegram. he's like a postman or a post office being detained for what people use the post of his for is not incredibly serious. i know i've said i'm,

i'm really at the end of my rope trying to explain the total indifference of the national news media here in america and abroad, frankly. i mean, but we, especially in the united states, or we have a very specific free speech tradition of it's, you know, the most powerful protections for journalists that, that any countries ever had. and it's a core value in the american system. journalists have been raised to protect those values at all costs, even if you know the rights of somebody, they vehemently disagree with. you know, our, our infringed upon. they've always come to that person's defense until donald trump got elected. and suddenly there's, there's been a see change even in the business. i grew up in them in the mainstream media. i worked a rolling stone for 15 years. i've written for countless publications here in the

states. and there's been just this amazing shift in the way people look at free speech. they, they, they seem to think it's not going to ever, you know, come to their door. these problems wouldn't actually jernace journalists historically are going to be the 1st in line to encounter problems when you know the hammer finally comes down. and they just don't seem to get and you single out in your latest subs deck and p r politico, the bbc state when bbc, which is already at the center of students, the sexual allegations against children actually. but it was really is when it goes to the bbc as rolling their eyes up allegations that now turn out to be true. because zocker would, of messer, of all people appears to be frightened. as frightened as the boss of rumble off to durham detention in front a. yeah. and and the significance of sucker burges letter and there are

a lot of people who been here heavily critical of mark sucker bird for a variety of reasons over the years. but on monday he put out a letter, it was a letter to the judiciary committee, chairman a jim jordan here in the states, essentially saying 2 big things. number one, i was pressure to sensor by the, by the administration. use that word, sensor a number to the f b i let us lead facebook and mehta to believe that a story involving hunter button and briggs my was russian, this information and essentially the, the, the company avoided or demoted that story. as a result of that, with the crucial part of the letter, which is use of the word sensor. because you know, i, and this is, this goes back to reporting that i've done from the twitter files. i kept using that word because in my mind, whenever the big government is working with a media,

distributers distributor to suppress information, as they did in the case of a 100, by the story that censorship, one fact checked after another and kept saying that that was false this was not censorship, this was just communication between the government and private pro private companies exercising their free 1st amendment rights to free speech. or even after e mail surfaced, where the white house was saying things to meadow like we would like to to get moving on removing of a post by our kid junior asap. they still wouldn't use the word. now they must use the word i think they have to because you know, somebody like sucker bird, it's clear that he at least perceived this activity as, as pressure sensor. and so what else could it possibly be and to be paid? the significance of this is the us constitution says the government cannot climbed on free speech so well. facebook is allowed to collab down on free speech. it cons

if it becomes entwined with the government. so how quickly can something be moved to indict the bible, harris administration and the previous trumpet business stretched, and presumably as regards the violation of the 1st amendment to the us constitution as well, it would, would have to be legislation for 1st. i mean, the whole, you wouldn't need legislation that would need to be a court case. there needs to be assumed. it would probably have to be resolved civilly. there is one that's on the already in existence and will probably work its way back to the supreme court. it's called mercy. the missouri one of the primary plaintiffs is robert f. kennedy junior. who is the person that mark sucker read was referring to when i was one of the people when he was talked about being pressure to sensor. um, you know, we obviously do have the 1st amendment which has

a very different conception speech rights than europe does. our ideas, the speech rights are inherent. people are born with them and the government's role is to protect those rights to prevent other people from infringing on them. it does not have a role in cleaning up the information of landscape. it does not have a role in policing misinformation. that is not how things are designed to under the us constitution. in europe, for instance, they have hate speech laws. the concept is the rights flow from the government. we see it another way. it would be interesting to see a legal challenge. now that is dr. burke has made the admission because it's just such a powerful word to use and what i think it would change public perception about in case that goes forward. which is why you said it was good news, no matter how bad it is for dura, presumably are you on musk visiting west and your anytime soon?

does it also show how different the world we live in is venezuela cooling, producer of to be released? russia currently blocking rumble upon which the id channel of this program goes out and on rumble at the same time as the rusher in the u. a desperately trying to ask about the citizen and talking about free speech is a whole thing in flux with western europe, just this black black coat area globally as the place. no one should go to right now. yes. so i would say so. absolutely, because historically, no matter what went on in the rest of the world, and in terms of free speech, the united states was always more or less of a fierce protector of those rights. at least at least nominally. and in pressured, the europeans to at least pay lip service or, or to the idea of free expression. its laws were never as powerful. the protections

were never as powerful in western european countries as they are in the states. but at least there was the perception that people could say more or less, whatever they wanted, as long as it was within reason. if the united states goes the way of other autocracies around the world, you know what i was in russia when the speech landscape changed significantly from the, you know, early nineties to the 2, thousands. when those changes happened they, they very seldom go back. i mean, that's one of the things that people that approached math will get back to this about diabetes, stuff to you, the more from the award winning journalist co publisher, the to the files and fullness contributing editor, rolling stone after this break the shooting. you could still do that, even if you were story ok. square level,

the use of solutions, stuff that's due to shifting it's because each time she couldn't no well collected ftp too for good position that that's a difficult the, the dizzy on this before they have to do. if they share the theme, you create, excuse that our name is, which is sort of spurious with disposable green and some of the doors not say that i'm going to die for conflicting. the thoughts about pushing and a centuries ago. your 4 bears name, this country ukraine or frontier because your steps blink, europe, and asia, but ukrainians, that become frontiersman of another story. the people will be able to sing the songs which i like

most of them. there's always, you know, going to try to jump to the most goals. they would have been that much. the heavily negligence coleman joe probably then you post bouquets gift to suck you the will have to upgrade the stuff. and under the 41 percent of us adults have an up savings to cover a $1000.00 emergency. if we have record numbers of americans who are on the verge of having their cars repossess more than a 137000000 americans are facing financial hardship because of medical then in america, we do have a welfare system in place to help people who are struggling financially, but it's a conditional system you have to prove to the government that you truly need help. the simplest way, like explain the basic income, is that is like social security. for the rest of us, a basic income would be

a monthly payments that would go to everyone. just a $1000.00 a month, no strings attached. i can use, i have, i would like the main i don't know, i just won't go crazy. the reason that i am a fan of guaranteed income because it is this idea that everybody is deserve. and then just by virtue absorbing here the welcome back to building on the garden. i'm still here with the award winning joining lisco publisher the to the files and because of america this week met you be math, i interrupted you when you were talking about russian censorship and things know going back go on because the people i know to know that you spend so much time in russian and that you speak russian and you, you know, about russia, the evil, evil rush or is, is known and nato countries. you know, i don't know but evil. i mean, i,

i did live in russia for 11 years as big russian. i still follow the news russian. i read russian news. um and you know, i was friends with a lot of russian reporters in the ninety's of some, you know, some great reporters who taught me a lot of how to do this job. and uh, yeah, not just there, but really anywhere around the world when the speech landscape changes, it's just very difficult to get those rights back. and they, it almost seems to virginia never really goes off what back in the bottle it's so i think people in america don't appreciate that because we've never really had a situation, at least not in the memory of you know, currently living americans. if you go back to the say, the palmer raids and the twenties and some, you know, the l. e and, and so the manufacturing concept, how much would the palace hotel? italian idea then? uh, the, the ben followed the palmer rates and mccarthy is right. but we didn't,

we didn't have the kind of direct control over media distribution and content that they, they're able to do. now, there was much more subtle even here we were so subtle that people who worked in the media their whole lives like um, you know, my father myself, i mean, we didn't see it. for the most part, we understood that it was there, but it wasn't like people were coming in with a red pencil telling you not to write this or that it was just if you were the wrong kind of person, you didn't get promoted. but yes, it's what's going on now is just is much more insidious and much more threatening to the long term outlook for free expression. and i do want to get to the, to the files and remind people about that. but what is it exactly? they want to sense and most abiding hours administration. i mean, people talked about tech talk because of what it was revealing about the guise of genocide. they're obviously in west, in your mess, censorship of anything on ukraine. i mean,

that's why rumble were banned in france way back and going to you of course was banned because west and your ukraine. very important. have gone as a very important what other issues is it about the stepping trump from winning the presidency? certainly i think stopping trump from winning the presidency is one of the reasons i think this started this movement towards censorship in the states really began with rex it in the election of donald trump. that's when we started to see new organizations like the global engagement center, which is the wing of the state department devoted to counter messaging. these are government institutions that are looking at the media landscapes here in the states and worrying about the impact of it worldwide. so where we're used to do counter messaging against isis, now we do it against populace movements here at home. but clearly they are very

worried about the ukraine news. i mean, you can't get any news about your crime. most americans have no idea of what's going on with that more because there is no reliable source of news is real clearly they, they're not loving the fact that there are so many images coming out of regardless strip. but they were able to successfully suppress most of the protests that happened at the democratic national convention last week, even though you could see in my line they weren't on television. that's for sure. so, um, i think it's a combination of those things. it's foreign policy initiatives. but clearly also they, they do not, they want to be able to shape domestic political opinion about a variety of things from elections to cobra, to other things. are you sure it was the dismay of trump and bricks it because i mean, truly and the silence was on this program to hear about google and the obama administration and the close ties with silicon valley back then, which is before trump. oh god,

absolutely look. even before, even before, were 2 weeks appeared, there were close times between the national security apparatus here and in the states. um, and all these tech platforms. uh, you know, tens of thousands of national security letters going out, getting information about the users of tech platforms, intelligence about what their media habits are. but there was a new stage in the evolution of some of these government programs. and this is part of what we aren't covered and that's what her files, where they, they started to build your offices in the state department and the f b, i a, an independent gone that they start to shift them. they had once been kind of counter terrorist organizations. and now we're being focused in word on domestic speech, in a, in a very sort of blunt and direct way that is new that,

that may have been going on just to a degree with the a sergeant student. but that was kind of isolated a, this is now an organized major part of the, you know, sort of military contracting world. they're building out this, this keep this capacity and it's not just for a couple of actors. so if trump wins and this time around and actually drain some of the swamp rather than um, creating a more swamp life with our f k junior and josie gab and all the rest of them. uh, does that mean something new or bugs? the whole trial will be required for all these officials that the, i mean, you just mentioned so many agencies, a da just homeland security ca pentagon, and a say there must be these low level personnel and all of them incorporating in violations of the us constitution. yes, i would say um, there are an awful lot of people who are violating at least the spirit if not the

letter of law. i mean that's why we're, we're beginning to see more the whistle blowers come forward from the national security apparatus you just mentioned. but tulsa gabbert, uh, it just came out a couple of weeks ago that uh, she's been put on what they call the quiet skies list here in the states. uh, and uh, selected for what they call special mission coverage. so she had trios of air marshals following her on every flight that she took a and even after that story got out, they continue doing it. so i think that's illegal if and when there are here ends about that there, there are probably going to be consequences for whoever made those decisions. but there's just a whole speed of things that since the beginning of since 911, really the, you know, from drone assassination, to domestic surveillance. a lot of these programs are just not legal, but they exist in this space that the government is chosen to say exist beyond the

reach of domestic law. and you know, it will be, i think we will need to have some kind of a nor a bridge style commission to go through it all. but it's good if we ever get to that point. but it will take a long time. but some i'd say to us the gap is the backing of the guys a genocide to make her own a put her on a no flies list. actually what happened to you after read off to you testified in congress to jim jordan next week. i think it was the guy who to talk about except the lesson to this week. you understand you were targeted but you're not on a no fly list. you can you can visit us and do by no, no, no, no, no fly list. um, you know, there might be other lists that i'm on or not. who knows, who knows you in a while and was testifying to the hospitalization of government committee. mean it's all around it. i'm testifying to the house weapon ization of government committee as i was doing that the iris visit in my house in new jersey.

and i don't have tax problems actually, the government owes me money. and so i came home after testifying and there was a note that have been left to my door and subsequently they investigated that there was actually a policy change as a result, as a result of that incident. but i thought it would pull it out gauge what the c i a then as a kind of order, the i a risk to harass people. the treasury department agreed to drastically reduce they say the number of home visits that the, that i r r s. agents will conduct going forward. so i guess that's a good thing, but um, you know, it, it certainly felt a little intimidating after work and who knows how many of those things are going on. you know, we're going undergrad don't particularly like 1000000000 is so it's all good here. i am talking about how terrible it is and defending 5 elder of uh you said in here

i am. i have had to defend the loan. was who you worked with. you said must, because prove to be very disappointing on free speech. why would you say that about the person who has liberated the world after what you reveal from the to the files is mess censorship. a, you know, you, unless, cuz done so. i mean, obviously there is some things on palestine, he's been accused of particularly and is friendship and netanyahu, but he's being the great all the goc fuel overload, as me, as well. look at one of the reasons i've been relatively muted in, you know, speaking about your mosque is because i'm always going to be grateful to, to him for doing taking the unprecedented step of opening up. twitter is internal files to journalists. i mean, it could have been, me, could have been any report or that was something that's never happened in american history. and we learned a lot about all sorts of sort of the things that were going on that we would never have done without that move of his. so that's most in my mind. um,

but at the same time uh he oh, elected to a sort of the amplifier i any links from the site that i happen to use, which is concepts that so even as i was doing the twitter files i was being de amplified on twitter and i'm still being be able to buy on twitter, so i can't exactly as you know that. oh yeah i do. i do know that for sure. yeah, yeah. i mean like they told me i was at the beginning they may deny it now. but if you just look at the traffic numbers it's, it's nowhere near the same. but i haven't, i'm not particularly worried about that. i think in the, in the larger scheme of things, you know, call them up to say, re amplify you. i mean, i'm dead because of because i, i sided with sub stacking this dispute of is was of stuck. so you know, if you look, it's unfortunate. i, i actually think it's

a misunderstanding. i wish we could sit down and talk because i don't think he understands my position on the whole thing. but you know, he's a private owner, it's his company. he can do what he wants. and i still think in the larger scheme of things, even if he is, you know, toggling the levels of a, you know, attention for this issue over that issue. that's still a very different thing than what was going on in the predecessor organization. which was, you know, this active, intense constant interaction with the just the f b i and you know, the, the state department not you know, that as a whole new different level of censorship and that davey. thank you. thank so much from. yeah, that's it for the show. continued condolences to those very by uga. you as you on genocide here in west asia will be devoting mondays program to it when we challenge israel's former investor to the usa, down the island until then keep in touch with my social media. if it's on the sense of your country and add to our channel going on the run tv on rumbled up. com to

let you know the episodes of going underground see monday the the, [000:00:00;00] the, i'll going naperville, general secretary stilton bird claims, a russian victory in the ukraine. complex is the biggest risk to the us led military blog. this is all the more reason russia will achieve its goals in this