wouldn't have been out of the west or west operate that because it just caught people up used to be live india. and so i wish i present it from are you know this power? that's i mean democracy, democracy. you're wondering to mind. i didn't die. yes. west africa is disability lies in the name of protecting she was in the gate. as you know, advocates of office, the health region is stacked with very rich mineral resources, and so many others in just the past few months. now local authorities have picked out the french, it kicked out the germans, they picked out to the americans. and even now the danish, in the past few days, try finding that story in the main stream, media question, more thoughts 8 the

i'm out sooner than see and welcome back to a brand new season of going underground broadcast to go around the world from the u . a 276 years ago this week, the french painted naveed was born, his depiction of the royalist honey drop as, as a nation. would you? unless you want bull mirage would make him immortal this week. a frantic, used to being run back, king macro is at the center of global outrage up to friends, captured and imprisoned. 5 elder of the russian you, a billionaire sea of the messaging up telegram is if to get ahead of things you as billionaire. all the golf facebook create a mock sucker bug responded by revealing his company method had been a defacto um of us government censorship. he claims the bite and harris administration ordered him to conceal information on public health and the hum to abide laptops story we covered on this show with foam in new york, mayor rudy giuliani. back in 2020, both russia with shelters. and this

a whistleblower edward snowden. and the u. a are seeking information about the citizen bureau of joining me now from new jersey is the co publisher, the treasure files, which exposed mass united states cove and censorship award winning during this month. i. e. b is the best selling author of books which is hating why today's media makes us despise one and icons breeds. he's a full that contributing as a rolling stone and current co host to the rack. if news bought cost america this week, matt, thanks so much for. finally coming back on going on. be great. it's been so long. i heard you on your podcast actually saying you are frightened to being on r t. this begins to be on the dates of independent production. you can criticize restoral, you like it goes out on the right. i understand it, and i'm not sure everyone here would make that distinction. but i totally understand that distinction. you know, they might have a lot of like number one that you think might compel, he wouldn't i think there are a lot of people who wouldn't understand. there's a lot of not understanding that's, that's in vogue now in america. let's go,

let's get on to misunderstandings. i mean, one minute we're celebrating the release of julian, assign job to years of torture by the british. the next we have met a zack, a bug, claiming that the bible harris administration pressured facebook to break what the 1st amendment gives me. and then the french of what defective kidnapped telegrams prevail, durrell visa on bail or something. now, i mean things worse now than when you would documenting the censorship in the twitter files. yeah. as of to yeah, know this moment in time, especially the, the arrest and the attention of durham is a paradigm shifting moment. and i think the history of kind of free expression in the west. uh, you know that there been rumors and threats and there been, there's been a lot of saber rattling in the direction of people like you on musk ever since the

passage of the digital services act in europe to the effect of you must comply or else there will be crippling penalties, but the detention aspect of it, this is something that's completely new coupled with threats by former national security executives like alexander vin, here in the states, after dresser as reminders who vin mean is actually i think he tweeted out or something just on the news, the dural verbena, the captured by french security forces. yes. so he's a far white house official, a former national security council member, former and diplomat. he kind of rose to prominence during the 1st impeachment of donald trump. as a witness against trump. uh, in that affair has been uh, you know, permanently involved with the ukraine drama, what she tweeted after door of the rest of that, you are much better take care essentially that the, you know,

you better watch out after this news because there is a growing appetite for accountability around the world and you know, that suggests that it's not just in europe that he's talking about and the bed is what's eye opening. i mean, many people commenting on the fact that western europe is appeared to be suicidal in its attempt to support washington policy on the proxy war through ukraine. is this the united states behind the scenes of acting to attract juror of a head of a us election in november? and how would we find that out? and you'd be very difficult to find out. i've heard so many theories about what actually happened and you know, in the last 3 or 4 days, there are a lot of people who believe that it's specifically connected to the war and ukraine . that there are issues that the united states military or middle has with

communications on telegram. but in the bigger picture, it really doesn't matter. there's a perception issue here, which is that whether he was, you know, arrested because of local french violations, which is what the french government claims. whether it was for following a foul, the dsa, as some european officials hinted at before his arrest. or whether it was something else, all the exec tech executives have been generally on notice for a while now that they are going to be held accountable in one way or another for the behavior of their own customers. and this is just the, it's a symbolic moment where somebody is clearly being held accountable for things that she didn't do. but that probably almost certainly is, is going on inside his platform and your colleagues, should i use that? would i go to? there's no longer a monk, steve journalists don't seem to,

i mean the salzburg are families new york times your paper of note treating it a bit like a joke. it says 13 is made of drugs, anti establishment streak, so it appears to have gotten him into a fresh round of trouble. and i mean, even compare it talked about snowden being and most go up to disclosing class, somebody to prove it. i mean, why do they think it's some kind of joke in the united states that a postman basically cuz that's was drove running telegram. he's like a postman or a post office being detained for what people use the post of his 4 is not incredibly serious or no action i'm. i'm really at the end of my rope trying to explain the total indifference of the national news media here in america . and, and abroad, frankly, i mean, but we, especially in the united states, or we have a very specific free speech tradition. but it's, you know,

the most powerful protections for journalists that have, that any countries ever had. and it's a core value in the american system. journalists have been raised to protect those values at all costs, even if you know the rights of somebody they genuinely disagree with, you know, are, are infringed upon. they've always come to that person's defense until donald trump got elected. and suddenly there's, there's been a sea change, even in the business. i grew up in them in the mainstream media. i worked a rolling stone for 15 years. i've written for countless publications here in the states. and there's been just this amazing shift in the way people look at free speech. they, they, they seem to think it's not going to ever, you know, come to their door, these problems when it actually jernace journalists historically, are going to be the 1st in line to encounter problems when you know,

the hammer finally comes down. and they just don't seem to get and you single out and your latest sub stuck and p r politico, the b b. c state when bbc, which is already at the center of storms of sexual allegations against children actually. but it was really is when it goes to the bbc as rolling their eyes, a allegations that now turn out to be true because sucker with the meta of old people appears to be frightened. as frightened as the boss of rumble off to durham detention in front. yeah. and and the significance of sucker burges letter and there are a lot of people who been here heavily critical of mark sucker bird for a variety of reasons over the years. but on monday he put out a letter, it was a letter to the judiciary committee, chairman a jim jordan here in the states,

essentially saying 2 big things. number one, i was pressure to sensor by the, by the administration. use that word, sensor a number to the f b i let us lead facebook and mehta to believe that a story involving hunter button and briggs my was russian, this information and essentially the, the, the company avoided or demoted that story. as a result of that, with the crucial part of the letter, which is use of the word sensor. because you know, i, and this is, this goes back to reporting that i've done from the twitter files. i kept using that word because in my mind, whenever the, the government is working with a media distributors, distributor, to suppress information, as they did in the case of a 100, by the story that censorship one's back checked after another. a kept saying that was false. this was not censorship, this was just communication between the government and private pro private

companies exercising their free 1st amendment rights to free speech. uh, even after e mail surface, where the white house was saying things to meadow like we would like you to get moving on removing of a post by r k junior asap. they still wouldn't use the word. now they must use the word i think they have to because you know, somebody like sucker bird, it's clear that he at least perceived this activity as, as pressure sensor. and so what else could it possibly be and to be paid? the significance of this is the us constitution says the government cannot planned on free speech so well. facebook is allowed to collab down on free speech. it cons if it becomes entwined with the government. so how quickly can something be moved to indict dividing harris administration and the previous trumpet business stretched, and presumably as regards the violation of the 1st amendment to the us constitution

as well, it would, would have to be legislation for 1st. i mean, well, you wouldn't need legislation that would need to be a court case or need to be assumed. it would probably have to be resolved civilly. there is one that's on the already in existence and will probably work its way back to the supreme court. it's called mercy. the missouri, one of the primary plaintiffs is robert f. kennedy junior. who is the person that mark sucker read was referring to when i was one of the people when he was talked about being pressure to sensor. um, you know, we obviously do have the 1st amendment, which has a very different conception speech rights than europe does our ideas, the speech rights are inherent. people are born with them and the government's role is to protect those rights to prevent other people from infringing on them. it does

not have a role in cleaning up the information and landscape. it does not have a role in policing misinformation. that is not how things are designed to under the us constitution. in europe, for instance, they have hate speech laws. the concept is the rights flow from the government. we see it another way. it would be interesting to see a legal challenge. now that is dr. burke has made the admission because it's just such a powerful word to use and what i think it would change public perception about any case that goes forward. which is why you said it was good news, no matter how bad it is for dura presumably or you and musk visiting west and your anytime soon. does it also show how different the world we live in is venezuela cooling, producer of to be released? russia currently blocking rumble upon which the id channel of this program goes out and on rumble at the same time as the rusher in the u. a desperately trying to ask

about the citizen and talking about free speech is a whole thing in flux with western europe, just this black black coat area globally as the place. no one should go to right now. yes. so i would say so. absolutely, because historically, no matter what went on in the rest of the world, and in terms of free speech, the united states was always more or less of a fierce protector of those rights. at least at least nominally. and in pressured, the europeans to at least pay lip service order, or to the idea of free expression. its laws were never as powerful. the protections were never as powerful in western european countries as they are in the states. but at least there was the perception that people could say more or less, whatever they wanted, as long as it was within reason. if the united states goes the way of other

autocracies around the world, you know what i was in russia when the speech landscape changed significantly. and from the, you know, early nineties to the 2, thousands. when those changes happened they, they very seldom go back. i mean, that's one of the things that people that i appreciate. math will get back to this about the abl stop you the more from the award winning journalist co publisher, the to the files and fullness contributing editor, rolling stone up in his break, the or the,

the welcome back to going on. right now i'm still here with the award winning trying lisco publisher the to the files and because of america this week met, tell you the math and you up did you when you were talking about russian censorship and things not going back go on. because if people i know to know that you spend so much time in russian and that you speak russian and you, you know, about rush or the evil evil rush or is, is known and nato countries. you know, i don't know but evil. i mean, i, i but i did live in russia for 11 years,

this big russian, i still follow the news russian. i read russian news. um and you know, i was friends with a lot of russian reporters in the ninety's of some, you know, some great reporters who taught me a lot of how to do this job. and i do not just there, but really anywhere around the world when the speech landscape changes, it's just very difficult to get those rights back. it almost seems to the virginia never really goes off what back in the bottle it's so i think people in america don't appreciate that because we've never really had a situation, at least not in the memory of you know, currently living americans. if you go back to the say, the palmer reads and the twenty's and some, you know, the l. e, and instead of the manufacturing concept, how much would the palace hotel it, terry and idea then uh the the then followed the palmer raids and mccarthy is

right. but we didn't, we didn't have the kind of direct control over media distribution and content that they, they're able to do. now. it was much more subtle even, you know, we were so subtle that people who worked in the media their whole lives like um, you know, my father myself. i mean, we didn't see it. for the most part, we understood that it was there, but it wasn't like people were coming in with a red pencil telling you not to write this or that it was just if you were the wrong kind of person, you didn't get promoted. so what? yes. what, what's going on now is just as much more insidious and much more threatening to the long term outlook for free expression. and i do want to get to the, to the files and remind people about that. but what is it exactly? they want to sense and most abiding, there's administration. i mean, people talked about tech talk because of what it was revealing about the gods, a genocide. they're obviously in west, in your, at mass censorship of anything on ukraine. i mean,

that's why rumble what bands in france way back and or to you, of course his band because west and your ukraine, very important and gun as a very important what other issues is it about stopping trump from winning the presidency? certainly i think stopping from from winning the presidency is one of the reasons i think this started this movement towards censorship in the states really began with rex it in the election of donald trump. that's when we started to see new organizations like the global engagement center, which is the wing of the state department devoted to counter messaging. these are government institutions that are looking at the media landscape here in the states and worrying about the impact of it worldwide. so where we're used to do counter messaging against isis, now we do it against populace movements here at home. but clearly they are very

worried about the ukraine news. i mean, you can't get any news about you crime. most americans have no idea of what's going on with that more because there is no reliable source of news is real clearly they, they're not loving the fact that there are so many images coming out of regardless strip. but they were able to successfully suppress most of the protests that happened at the democratic national convention last week, even though you could see my line. they weren't on television. that's for sure. so, um, i think it's a combination of those things. it's foreign policy initiatives, but clearly also they, they do not. they want to be able to shape domestic political opinion about a variety of things from elections to cobra, to other things. are you sure it was the dismay of trump and bricks it because i mean, truly and the silence was on this program to hear about google and to the obama administration and the close ties with silicon valley back then, just before trump. oh, got absolutely looked at even before,

even before were 2 weeks appeared. there were close ties between the national security apparatus here and in the states. um and all these tech platforms. uh, you know, tens of thousands of national security letters going out, getting information about the users of tech platforms, intelligence about what their media habits are. but there was a new stage in the evolution of some of these government programs. and this is part of what we covered, and that's what her files, where they, they started to build direct procedures in the state department in the f, b i a and, and depending on that, they start to shift them. they had once been kind of counter terrorist organizations, and now we're being focused inward, on domestic speech, in a, in a very sort of blunt and direct way that is new that,

that may have been going on just to a degree with the a sergeant student, but that was kind of isolated, and this is now an organized major part of the us or military contracting world. they're building out this, this keep this capacity and it's not just for a couple of actors. so if trump wins and this time around and actually drain some of the swamp rather than um, creating a more swamp life with our f k junior enjoys he gathered all the rest of them. uh, does that mean something new or bugs ho? trial will be required for all these officials with the, i mean you just mentioned so many agencies just homeland security. see a pent again and a say there must be these low level personnel and all of them a cooperating and violations of the us constitution. yes, i would say um, there are an awful lot of people who are violating at least the spirit if not the

letter of law. i mean that's why we're, we're beginning to see more a whistle blowers come forward from the national security apparatus you just mentioned. but tulsa gabbert, uh, it just came out a couple of weeks ago that uh, she's been put on what they call the quiet skies list here in the states, and selected for what they call special mission coverage. so she had trios of air marshals following her on every flight that she took. and even after that story got out, they continue doing it. so i think that's illegal if and when there are here ends about that there, there are probably going to be consequences for whoever made those decisions. but there's just a whole speed of things that since the beginning of since 911, really the, you know, from drone assassination, to domestic surveillance. a lot of these programs are just not legal, but they exist in this space that the government is chosen to say exist beyond the

reach of domestic law. and you know, it will be, well, i think we will need to have some kind of a norbert style commission to go through it all. but it's good if we ever get to that point. but it will take a long time. but some i'd say to us the gap is the backing of the guys a genocide. shewmaker on a put her on a no fly list. actually what happened to you officer off to you testified in congress to jim jordan. that's why i think it was the guy who uh, the sucker book sent the letter to this. we the, i understand you were targeted but you're not on a no fly list. you can, you can visit us and do by no, no, no, no, no fly list. um, you know, uh, there might be other lists that i'm on or not. who knows? yeah. in a while and was testifying uh to uh, the hospitalization of government committee. mean it's all around it. i'm testifying to the house weapon ization of government committee. as i was doing that

the iris visit in my house in new jersey. him, i don't have tax problems. actually, the government owes me money. and so i came home after testifying and there was a note that have been left to my door. and subsequently they investigated that there was actually a policy change as a result, as a result of that incident. but i thought it was supposed actually age what the c i a then is a kind of order the i a risk to harass people. the treasury department agreed to drastically reduce they say the number of home visits that the, that iris r s. agents will conduct going forward. so i guess that's a good thing, but um, you know, it, it certainly felt a little intimidating after one and who knows how many of those things are going on . you know, we're going undergrad don't particularly like 1000000000 is so it's all good here. i am talking about how terrible it is and defending 5 elder of uh you said in here

i am i about to defend the loan was who you worked with. you said must, because prove to be very disappointing on free speech. why would you say that about the person who has liberated the world after what you reveal from the 2 a deposit method to ship a, you know, you know, unless, cuz then so, i mean, obviously there is some things on palestine. he's been accused of particularly in his friendship and netanyahu, but he's being the great all the goc fuel overload, as me as well. look at one of the reasons i've been relatively muted in, you know, speaking about your mosque is because i'm always going to be grateful to, to him for doing taking the unprecedented step of opening up. twitter is internal files to journalists. i mean, it could have been, me, could have been any report or that was something that's never happened in american history. and we learned a lot about all sorts of sort of the things that were going on that we would never have done without that move of his. so that's most in my mind. um,

but at the same time, he elected to a sort of the amplified any links from the sites that i happen to use, which is concepts that so even as i was doing the twitter files, i was being d amplified on twitter and i'm still being be able to buy on twitter, so i can't exactly see you know that. oh yeah i do. i do know that for sure. yeah, yeah, i mean, they told me i was at the beginning, they may deny it now. but if you just look at the traffic numbers it's, it's nowhere near the same. but i haven't, i'm not particularly worried about that. i think in the, in the larger scheme of things, you know, call them up as a re amplifier. i mean, i'm dead because of because i, i sided with sub stack in this dispute of is was of stuck. so you know, if you look, it's unfortunate. i, i actually think it's

a misunderstanding. i wish we could sit down and talk because i don't think he understands my position on the whole thing. but you know, he's a private owner, it's his company. he can do what he wants. and i still thinking the larger scheme of things, even if he is, you know, todd going the levels of a, you know, attention for this issue over that issue. that's still a very different thing than what was going on under the predecessor organization. which was, you know, this active, intense constant interaction with the just the f b i and you know, the, the state department not you know, that as a whole new different level of censorship that davey. thank you. thank so much from . yeah. or that's it for the show, continued condolences to those very by uga. you as you, i'm genocide here in west asia will be developing mondays program to it when we challenge israel's former investor to the usa, down the island until then keep in touch with my social media of its authentic meal

country and i to a channel going on the warranty on rumble dot com to let you know the episodes of going underground see monday, the the look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except we're so shorter is that conflict with the 1st law show alignment of the patient. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence at the point, obviously is to make a trust. rather than see it the job. i mean, with artificial intelligence, we have somebody in the team in the a robot must protect this phone existence with alexis.

the, in the headlines right here with all the international. 5 civilians are killed and many more wounded in the russian border region of belgrade is key of shells, residential buildings with plus the bombs this kind of fun by the local governor. meanwhile, and moscow says it's several key ukrainian supply route in the don't box is washington down plays rupture. the strategic advances approach, kind of thing and peace activist is arrested at her home by british police report from the over the content you posted online. and we discussed the issue with british parliamentary and george galloway britain is not yet a fascist country, but is definitely on the road to extinguishing a freedom of speech.