the probably all from the and the price themselves. so i think if you could remove the, remove it off of for a bit that thinks, i think they should be a sec. let me know. we can sort of interesting model what have you, you know, that we've been covering them. actually, you're well aware of the news surrounding power about the robot and his sort of uh, the fact that he could be sentenced to 10 years in jail for the owner of the telegram. what are your thoughts on that? oh yeah, yeah. how good? no kind of problem you're being arrested. uh uh, so you're in i t or the software. well, the thing for me is here, the responsible figure that someone use is that platform. all the other tech companies out there that should also be worried. okay, this quite a tricky. yeah. in that sense. okay. but i believe all this uh for an awesome randy. wendy has come. come up to uh, such a big uh, enterprising,

uh why we called this. uh, you should be they would know that the risk hiring uh an end the end of the space they should have uh covered, but uh, by law of what should be covered. so if they are going to be facing, we need to suit this on the lead uh what we call this uh, dispatch team should have been able to, you know, uh correct what is wrong uh, from that point. so i believe professionally, if all this has been done, this back needs to be a trade off. i can see much of what's been going around the country. yeah. most of the time, i really appreciate you joining us today here and i'll to thank you. okay, for doing as long as again. all right. okay, thanks. and the other thing is i will be back in 30 minutes. we'll see you then in a

in most cases whistle blowing is very direct. the c, i a, is torture. it's prisoners with banks or laundering money, the south african police are corrupt with the blower comes forward makes his or her revelation. and the story moves forward from there. but what happens when the whistle blowers, revelations, are so complicated that even govern mental representatives, just walk away from what happens when they say, look, we don't understand this, the public one understand that. so maybe we should just pretend that it's not happening. that's when you double down and make even more noise. i'm john kerry. ok, welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 taxes are complicated for most americans. it's not unusual for

a normal american working a normal job to have a tax return that stretches to more than $100.00 pages. mine certainly does and i'm nothing special. so imagine what the tax returns of the big wall street banks, hedge funds, and investment firms looked like with the us tax co taking up literally tens of thousands of pages of the official gazette and corporate tax returns thousands of pages each and with i r. s. oversight lacking for years now, it's up to knowledgeable citizens, to report evidence of waste, fraud, abuse or illegality. that's exactly what happened in the case we're going to tell you about today. the problem though is, what do you do when you report your evidence of illegality and the people who are supposed to investigate it? just decide not to. it's too complicated. they say, where they disagree with your analysis, even though you are certain that you're correct or they just don't have the budget or the man power to investigate. or they convince the courts to ignore you because

of a simple technicality. what do you do? it keep up the fight. we're happy to be joined by attorney thomas wilcox. he's a whistle blower on the issues of federal and state tax fraud committed by wall street banks and investment firms. tom, welcome to the show. thank you. well, this is certainly a complicated case. i think the best way to tackle it is to start from the very beginning. please give our viewers an overview of what this case is about and how you got involved in it. basically in 2002. later, that's me sometimes i'm i sometimes i'm, or later i'm, there were later on this top i discovered what relate or believed to be for tax fraud inflicted on the us and new york state and new york city by several wall street. but the transaction is an issue which i'll call the p assignment. transactions are private placements of securities and 1990 with 85 percent of the funds raised in the united states by 2 syndicates of bucks. both led by credit

suisse usa, other banks, the syndicate included, jp morgan chase, morgan stanley, and merrill lynch. i'm gonna call them the us affiliates. now 15 percent on the money was raised from united kingdom by the british cat or parts of the us branch. i'm gonna call them b, u, k, affiliates, the structure of the transactions. again, this dr. limited in much more detail. my website was simply that the us affiliates, acting as the fact the principles a raised 85 percent of the $1800000000.00 total. and the 2 transactions in the united states and simply wire the funds from the new york city closing over to the u. k. whether you pay affiliated simply book the fees at the u. k. then lower corporate tax rate. a simple summary of my efforts since the discovery of the fraud is in 2005, i reported 3 r. s, and received back only unambiguous letter denying award,

but neither confirming nor denying that the irish had obtained any recovery from the bench. in 2011, the state of new york had passed legislation, many private litigants to bring t 10 matches. i'll discuss the details of that later on. a very important point to keep in mind is that a relate or bringing a key. tam fraud on behalf a new york law is bound by a 10 year statute, limitations whoever, for cases, for such cases the state in the city have no statute of limitations. a claim for tax fraud by jurisdiction united states for the new york state and the city can be brought at any time when i presented the documents to the state of new york for review, that entity declined to review any of the documents from the iris investigation or interview of the people who investigated from the iris. the state view of the cases officially an expedition and speculation. ultimately,

the new york courts accepted this viewpoint and dismissed the case on that basis. while it's happening on the view of it, my case was barred by the 10 year statute tenure statute limitations. at the same time that the new york appellate court was passing such judgment, i found the sound deputy in the international tactual expert moreland nations find this law schools who reviewed the same exact facts, presented the new york state and the appellate court. and came to the exactly contrary conclusion. the facts i presented were evidence of tax fraud and the defendants should pay the taxes. it issued $92016.00. i brought a case on behalf of new york city, new york state. this time on the progressive tax lot of pain. however, the city evidently, must die can. so i wanted to tell the same line as the state and the prior courts even further, it appeared to want the case to vanish so that it would not have to justify knowing

it. therefore, the city is lawyer trade. it is males with me for 2 years, engaging in what i now would view as gas lighting that is open. i would get discourage and go go away. there were no documents produced and no real investigation. i didn't the but i didn't know the city's help at the end of the 2 years, so on the left. finally letting me go forward. the case again, the courts again dismissed the case. now, why do i persist after 20 years? 19 years and then one important point, very important point is none of the above. while my claims were dismissed, as they were later asking about the interest of these jurisdictions as noted above the states and said, these plans are never time bought. this is fraud. and they can take action at any time even further if they take any actions. cheryl is of the banks in question to can filed the river actions alleging the bank to reach their duties to the shareholders by letting such

a fraud take place and failing to pay the taxes. when given notice by the litigation cutting to the chase, you saw evidence of tax fraud and you did exactly as you were supposed to do. you went to the courts, but it seems that that's where your problems actually began. as you said in 2005, you reported tax fraud inflicted on the united states. you reported that to the internal revenue service, the i r s. the iris has long had a reputation as being hospital to whistle blowers. and unfortunately, that was your experience. so tell us about it. well, for a little background in 2004 and wall street bank are testified anonymously. the tried to report fraudulent and wrong tactful shelters to the i r s. if, if they had responded when he had reported that the enron collapse might have been prevented. but in our since this rush, the blower reported he was treated like a skunk, gonna pip that now in 2005,

i tried to report the fraud described above to the irish. also wall street patch for in march of 2005, the iris referred the relate or to a special agent. i'll call him the as a new york usa needed the said he needed to confirm that was now previous audit taking place before he could meet with me 2 weeks later yesterday called another 5 or later there was no pre existing audit and we arranged a meeting at the iris as offices often times square at the meeting, the essay and his colleagues asked some questions, but no showed no deep interest in examining the case. in april, 2005, i received the notice of objection from ogden, utah, i or i saw in response, i made several phone calls sticking to find out what the basis was for the rejection. the agent said he needed more information. i'll definitely reach the lawyer in the international division of the iris. i'm gonna call him the iris attorney last week to submit

a memorandum explaining my allegations of fraud. i waited patiently, didn't you know like that, but in 2006, congress passed legislation. they gave me office of whistle blower o w, and i'm gonna call this the o. w legislation is very important. it gave via rest whistle blowers, various protections such as an appeal to the tab score, rewards denial. however, sex protections applied only to claims based on information provided after the passage of yeah, so my claim was not included. i'm reading this news. i called the ios attorney. however, he gave vague response indicating that the recovery had taken place. but he been told there was a preexisting on it. so i was not eligible for a reward to 9. is that to be false? because i went to bed with the agent said that there been a preexisting audit. so in 2007, i made inquiry to the head of the newly created office of worship blower

o w. however, you gave me a june 2007 response which made an oblique reference to a prior denial of which i was not aware. and said it had been quote, well, reason it's really says nothing based on review of cases where the iris has had no hesitation telling whistle blowers the iris recovered of the simple check box like the one i got from ogden, utah. there was no recovery. no, they wouldn't hesitate to tell me that i have the vin number, but i view this letter as an excuse to deny reward and keep the whole amount. also, because later i submitted the information prior to the passage of b, o. w at. i could not appeal to tax court with regard to your experience with the iris after you reported your allegations to an iris investigator. the iris adopted these new regulations that you just talked about, allowing whistle blowers to go to the us tax court to collect

a whistle blower reward. this is well established law, but then you were denied even that opportunity. so can you go into a little bit more detail about how this happened and why they wouldn't allow you to even apply for this whistle blower reward? well, as i explained to bob because i submitted the factual basis for tax fraud in 2005, when there was no obvious and wasn't blower with the procedures were, were like non existent or very weak on the right to a, you know, a formal application having a docket number assigned to it and everything like that applied only the information submitted. after december 2006 decided submitted in 2005. so i had no recourse. i did get one possible recourse that was um, what appeared to be a silver lining and the february tooth. in february, 2007,

senator charles grassley issued a letter that implied as finance committee staffers to review all the blower claims submitted to the i. r. s. in this 3 years prior of the passage of the o, w at 2006, had a finance committee staff are undertaking this review. i believe it had been shown to the iris obtained recovery. however, i believe the new york agents were annoyed by the fact i turned their denial into a recommendation from washington that the matter be investigated. so they ginned up the skis. excuse of a precedent preexisting on it. i believe that's what would have been found. so from 2007, the 2015, i still have to have the staff or is there a lot of turnovers one staff rather than that? i just asked them to execute the instructions that senator grassley provided in the letter. you go into executive session with the finance committee and you get approval to get filed and i r. s. however,

the one of the stablish story might go to jail since the information was confidential and the rest just lacked interest so that that letter was never acted on. i gotta tell you the, the wrong what whistle blowers pretty much right. even after the passage of the i r s. legislation. yeah o w legislation. where's the boys get treated like skunk to the picnic? and that the truth after the iris appear to just dismiss you in 2013, you sought to bring claims. first on behalf of new york state and then in 2016 on behalf of new york city. this was a complex accusation of tax fraud, but the new york appellate court without permitting any discovery or the introduction of expert testimony, just through the case out and we're talking about $75000000.00 of the tax payer's money. what exactly happened there? the court of which you speak 1st, department of new york state's appellate division is one of the finest in the country. but i have to express the disappointment in its handling of my

case, the plaintiff allegations in the complaint, i suppose to be deemed true for the purposes of abolishing to dismiss, which is where we were at before the appellate court. had the traveler properly dismissed a contrary to this rule of this preliminary stage, and therefore, before expert reports were doing i could've obtained had because not been the semester, the irish material. the 1st above enrolled the tax for the allegations were pure speculation. and in contrast to many other cases i've seen dismissing, for all the speculation, the appellate court did not set for us. the allegations on which the related base i've had. so i've done the words they didn't put forward in the opinion, any of the documents, the 10 or so documents that i had showing the fraud or describe them or explain why there was speculation is why one paragraphs i've, i've seen many cases the semester fraud on the ground that the plaintiffs claimed

the facts of speculation, and we could see in the 2020 election, many courts just saying the plaintiff challenge in the election fraud claims or is just speculation. we're not going to go further. however, each of them, the courts, took the time to review the allegations raised by the plaintiff and explain why they did not meet the bar for the claim of fraud. i didn't get that in this case. it is 2016 ruling. again, they didn't summarize my transactions, know the documents and had been done. so i think i could have gotten multiple attacks experts to state that the opinion was incorrect. while these people are seeing the fact. thank you tom. we're going to take a short break and when we come back, we're going to go into some more detail about how the government denies to whistle blowers what the law demands and how officials to simply get away with it. stay to

the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the the

. 2 welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry onto we're speaking with thomas wilcox. he's a whistle blower on the issues of federal and state tax fraud committed by wall street banks and investment firms. tom, thanks again for being with us. thank you. one of the things that has struck me about your case is the fact that it is dragged on for so many years. the whole thing began around 2002 a decade later, in 2012, you were back in the new york state courts arguing that the case was so compelling that you were sure the government and the courts would pick it up. instead, the court dismissed the fraud as speculation without offering up any explanation. tell us about that. so, the 1st issue i will address is a delay from 2002 to 2012. and 2002. the iris had a digital with

a whistleblower programs as i've described above. and as the end one whistle blowers testimony indicates i, as i discovered when i tried to file a claim 9 originally started in 2002. no one seemed to be in charge. non in any with any authority seem interested in doing anything. in fact, i will never forget the unforgettable statement from a lawyer in the new york office of the irish that quote, we typically don't prosecute wall street. i remember that there is about to this day because i couldn't believe it when i heard it, but it was consistent with the and run most of the dollars testimony. the program was more about things changed a bit after the 2004 testimony before senator grassley. i'm the one was a bar. i asked the man if you got a formal referral to the irish i. r s. agents discuss them up a leveled one. i met with them. i did not have any excitement about a large case against major institutions. i will never forget showing some documents . someone agent who made

a joke in reference to another wall street transaction that closed in the cayman islands. and later on, that agent basically started screeching. i knew that i had no evidence of fraud either in the cayman islands example, or my transaction. after the meeting, the agent just sent me a rejection letters i discussed above. and i want to call the agent as why didn't you just give me a former direction. they said they needed more information. i provided to them random in a year they passed the all the w legislation and uh, i called up, i was told that there was no, but uh, no reward. why asked newly instead of had to be opposite muscle bl. busy or what happened uh uh you said, well, the denial was valid reason which i considered to be uh, just to uh, sort of a blow off and unexcused for them to keep all the money and not giving me

a reward. and now after i did dial in 2007, why was there any delay in filing the state lawsuit? whistleblower law is evolving and growing. feel in new york state did not pass legislation for many private litigants to bring pads, fraud cases until 2010. i didn't learn of its passage and like 2012 and you know, i started putting in a complaint together and filed it in 2013 things proceeded fairly quickly at that point on the, in the state litigation. however, again in 2016 and as the state little said, st litigation was being dismissed, i am sitting, litigation was being filed. i just discovered this expert opinion letter from moving out of a unit saying that there was fraud. i found him got the letter saying it was fraud,

and i don't think new york state liked the fact of this letter came out contradicting about it and the 1st department. so i didn't hear anything until october 2016. and only after making multiple phone calls. finally, to a new york city attorney who will, who review the expert opinion letter contract to new york state's lawyers who began to review the complaints of no monks would be consumed by me by on return phone calls, or at least the ladies, however, were nothing compared to what happened after the state assigned the new york city lawyer to handle the case. in january 2017, the new york state supreme court issued a new order, making this assignment on for the court required to city to file status reports every 6 months. in late july, 2017, late january 2018 and late july 2018. the city law

department filed reports to the court to which i was not privy. however, the lot apartment apparently told, well, they told me later, the report simply stated the investigation was on going. during the still years, lot apartments never provided any documents, information relevant to the case to the related one conclusion of the case. on conclusion, excuse me, the related review and have a new york city department spent 2 years, 2017 at all, 2018 reporting to the court that it was investigating the case one, it never produced any documents. interviewed any witnesses like my expert or reported to the relate or any of the information i requested. the defendant's tax returns critical new york city policies on how they treat trach refunds,

etc. specifically, i, i had no evidence. they provided no evidence law department and review the tax returns to determine what might be available in damages. lot apartment, i never interviewed my tax expert nor disclosed his tax refund policy, which was critical to uh, the theory of mine most rigorously in 2018 lot apartment requested more evidence of fraud and proof. the case had not gone scale over the 19 years since the transactions taken place in response to head requesting and july of 2018. i saw to determine that the signatories of the purchase agreements which govern the p assign attractions were still live. such turned out to be the case. so, and even, i mean, there was even more evidence of fraud. but i sent these findings which you're several 100 pages to the new york city lawyer. the size that was sent in the cloud,

my cloud, which tracks transmission and tells me when it's been open. it was never open. when roy never even bother to look at it, just let me know in january of 2019 that the city wasn't going to pursue the case. in september 2019, the court on the field, the complaint. after that time, the law department ceased communications with me. they will not decline, they will not confirm receipt of filings or consent the filing. finally, in december 2020 the relate to find one of my e mails to the lot apartment. my principal contact returned undeliverable on him for a i determined he, the attorney had said less a lot of private without advising me of this that or given me another attorney to communicate with them. so on the basis of all this, i filed a formal complaint with the new york city lot apartment. so uh and i'm still waiting to hear back from them. so where did things stand now tom, it looks like there's no longer

a court case because of the statute of limitations. the claims that you brought expired. it looks like neither the city nor the state have collected any taxes that the big banks have essentially scanned it with. so what's next? um, well, for background in 2019, i consulted with professor richard painter at the university of minnesota. as to whether or not the failure of the defendant is to conduct an internal investigation of mileage asians that's fraud would constitute a violation of the new york rules of professional responsibility. a believe that to be the case. and he pleaded if the factual allegations in these pleadings are true, that bias inflicted a huge fraud on new upstate new york city. someone should investigate this case. those words were true when tweet in 2020, and that's true today. as noted above. well, my claims have a 10 year statute limitations. the city and state have knows that you the limitations in pursuing their claims. and even further, if the defendants have been given clear notice of the fraud. if there's any

investigation of it generated by your view of may or any other price of a mistake in the city, actually start an investigation of the shareholders. of the banks compiled the remedy of actions demanding an investigation as to why this fraud wasn't dealt with when the, when the banks were given. notice of it uh, i have been described by the defendants and his face twice and their brief as relentless a n, n d 5 year is that the 1st time they get any press coverage on this case, i find myself speaking to you. and i intended to circulate this interview as widely as necessary to finish the job. i began. thank you so much for taking the time to untangle this complicated case. american author, writer,

and historian albert bush no heart once said that taxation is the price which civilized communities paid. ready for the opportunity to remain civilized when the biggest, most important and wealthy is banks and investment companies decide to not pay their taxes. we all lose both as individuals and as a society. that's why it's up to whistle blowers to keep on the pressure even when it takes decades. i'd like to thank our guests, thomas wilcox for being with us today, and thank you to our viewers for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry. aku, please follow me on subsets at john kerry. aku, we'll see you next time. the

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