is that they can contribute voluntary to funding, combat climate change, but so far they are different points of views on the issue, even among representatives of the developing wealth. but in this case, negotiations also the way and it would be premature to draw any hasty conclusions on this matter while the around. so this is outlets i've seen with times he's on guard underground believe in 30 minutes the i'm actually on or tennessee, and welcome back to a brand new season of going underground broadcast to go around the world from the u . a 276 years ago this week, the french painted,

the beat was born. his depiction of the royalist honey drop is as a nation of a june list. jump on the raj would make him immortal this week. a frantic, used to being run by king macro is at the center of global outrage up to friends captured and imprisoned. 5 elder of the russian, you, a billionaire see of the messaging up telegram is if to get ahead of things you as billionaire. all the golf facebook create a mock sucker bug responded by revealing his company method had been a defective of u. s. government censorship. he claims the by the new harris administration, order them to conceal information on public health and the home to abide laptops. story we covered on this show, we form a new york mayor, rudy giuliani, back in 2020, both russia with shelters. and it's a whistleblower edward snowden on the u. a seeking information about the citizen bureau of joining me now from new jersey is the co publisher, the truth of files which exposed mess, united states cove and censorship award winning during this month. i. e. b is the best selling author of book. so just hate think why today's media makes us despise

one and icons brief. he's a full that contributing as a rolling stone and current co host for the record and use both cost america this week. my thanks so much for finally coming back on going underground. it's been so long, i heard you on your board costs actually say you are frightened to being on. i t this but it's to be on the teeth of independent production. you can criticize restoral. you like it goes out on the right. i understand it, and i'm not sure everyone here would make that distinction, but i totally understand the distinction. you know, they make a lot of like, number one that you think mike pompeo, he wouldn't, i think there are a lot of people who wouldn't understand. there's a lot of not understanding that's, that's in vogue now in america. let's go, let's get on to misunderstandings. i mean, one minute we're celebrating the release of julian, assign job to use of torture by the british. the next we have methods, zach. a bug. claiming that the bible harris administration pressured facebook to

break what the 1st amendment gives me. and then the friendship. what defective kidnapped telegrams probably will dural visa on bail or something. now, i mean things worse now than when you would documenting the censorship in the twitter files. yeah. as of today. yeah. know this moment in time, especially the, the arrest and the attention of durham is a paradigm shifting moment. and i think the history is kind of free expression in the west. uh, you know that there been rumors and threats and there were been, there's been a lot of saber rattling in the direction and people like you want musk ever since. the passage of the digital services act in europe to the effect of you must comply, or else there will be crippling penalties, but the detention aspect of it, this is something that's completely new, coupled with threats by former national security executives like alexander vin.

here in the states, after dresser as reminders who vin mean is actually i think he tweeted out or something just on the news, the dural verbena, the captured by french security forces. yes. so he's a far white house official, a former national security council member, former and diplomat. he kinda rose to prominence during the 1st impeachment of donald trump. as a witness against trump. uh, in that affair has been uh you know, permanently involved with the ukraine drama. what she tweeted after door ups arrest that you are most better take care essentially that you know, you better watch out after this news because there is a growing appetite for accountability around the world. and, you know, that suggests that it's not just in europe that he's talking about, and that is what's eye opening. i mean,

many people commenting on the fact that western europe is appeared to be suicide. the limits attempt to support washington policy on the proxy war through ukraine. is this the united states behind the scenes of acting to attract juror of a head of a us election in november? and how would we find out? it would be very difficult to find out. i've heard so many series about what actually happened and, you know, in the last 3 or 4 days, there are a lot of people who believe that it's specifically connected to the war and ukraine . that there are issues that the united states military or nato has with communications on telegram. but in the bigger picture, it really doesn't matter. there's a perception issue here, which is that whether he was, you know, arrested because of local french violations,

which is what the french government claims. whether it was for following the final, the dsa, as some european officials hinted at before his arrest or whether it was something else. all the exec tech executives have been generally on notice for a while now that they are going to be held accountable in one way or another for the behavior of uh their own customers. and this is just the, it's a symbolic moment where somebody is clearly being held accountable for things that she didn't do. but that probably almost certainly is, is going on inside his platform and your colleagues, should i use that? would i go to? there's no longer a monk, steve's journalists don't seem to, i mean the salzburg or families new york times your paper of note treating it a bit like a joke. it says the tv is made of drugs anti establishment streak, so it appears to have gotten him into a fresh round of trouble. and i mean,

it's even combat. it talks about snowden being and most go up to disclosing classified information. i mean, why do they think it's some kind of joke in the united states that a postman basically because that's was drove running telegram. he's like a postman or a post office being detained for what people use the post of his for is not incredibly serious or no action i'm. i'm really at the end of my rope trying to explain the total indifference of the national news media here in america . and abroad, frankly, i mean, but we, especially in the united states, or we have a very specific free speech tradition of it's, you know, the most powerful protections for journalists that, that any countries ever had. and it's a core value in the american system. journalists have been raised to protect

those values at all costs, even if it's, you know, the rights of somebody, they vehemently disagree with. you know, our, our infringed upon. they've always come to that person's defense until donald trump got elected. and suddenly there's, there's been a sea change, even in the business. i grew up in them in the mainstream media. i worked a rolling stone for 15 years. i've written for countless publications here in the states. and there's been just this amazing shift in the way people look at free speech. they, they, they seem to think it's not going to ever, you know, come to their door. these problems wouldn't actually jernace journalists historically are going to be the 1st in line to encounter problems when you know the hammer finally comes down, and they just don't seem to get and you single out and your latest subs deck and p r politico, the bbc state or in bbc which is already at the center of students,

the sexual allegations against children actually. but it was really is when it goes to the bbc as rolling their eyes up allegations that now turn out to be true. because zocker with a method of old people appears to be frightened as frightened as the boss of rumble off to durham detention in front. yeah. and, and the significance of sucker burges letter and there are a lot of people who been here heavily critical of mark soccer bird for a variety of reasons over the years. but uh, on monday he put out a letter. uh, it was a letter to the judiciary committee chairman a jim jordan here in the states essentially saying 2 big things. number one, i was pressure to sensor by the, by the administration. use that word sensor a number to the f b. i let us lead facebook and mehta to believe that

a story involving hunter button and briggs my was russian, this information and essentially the, the, the company avoided or demoted that story. as a result of that, with the crucial part of the letter, which is use of the word sensor because you know, i, and this is, this goes back to reporting that i've done from the twitter files. i kept using that word because in my mind, whenever the, the government is working with a media, distributers distributor, to suppress information, as they did in the case of a 100, by the story that censorship one's back checked after another and kept saying that was false. this was not censorship, this was just communication between the government and private pro private companies exercising their free 1st amendment rights to free speech. uh, even after e mail surface, where the white house was saying things to meadow like we would like you to get moving on removing of a post by

r k junior asap. they still wouldn't use the word. now they must use the word i think they have to because you know, somebody like sucker bird, it's clear that he at least perceived this activity as, as pressure sensor. and so what else could it possibly be and to be paid? the significance of this is the us constitution says the government cannot climbed on free speech so well. facebook is allowed to collab down and free speech cons if it becomes entwined with the government. so how quickly can something be moved to indict the biden harris administration and the previous trumpet, business stretched, and presumably as regards the violation of the 1st amendment to the us constitution as well, it would, would have to be legislation for 1st. i mean, well, you wouldn't need legislation that would need to be a court case or need to be assumed. it would probably have to be resolve civilly.

there is one that's all that already in existence and will probably work its way back to the supreme court. it's called mercy. the missouri, one of the primary plaintiffs is robert f. kennedy junior. who is the person that mark suckered was referring to when i was one of the people when he was talked about being pressure to sensor. um, you know, we obviously do have the 1st amendment which has a very different conception speech rights than europe. those are ideas that speech rights are inherent. people are born with them and the government's role is to protect those rights to prevent other people from infringing on them. it does not have a role in cleaning up the information of landscape. it does not have a role in policing misinformation. that is not how things are designed to under the us constitution. in europe, for instance, they have hate speech laws. the concept is the rights flow from the government. we

see it another way. it would be interesting to see a legal challenge. now that is dr. burke has made the admission because it's just such a powerful word to use and what i think it would change public perception about in case that goes forward. which is why you said it was good news, no matter how bad it is for dura presumably, or you on musk visiting west and your anytime soon. does it also show how different the world we live in is venezuela cooling, producer of to be released? russia currently blocking rumble upon which the id channel of this program goes out and on rumble at the same time as the rusher in the u. a desperately trying to ask about the citizen and talking about free speech is a whole thing in flux with western europe, just this black black coat area globally as the place. no one should go to right

now. a yes. so i would say so. absolutely, because historically, no matter what went on in the rest of the world, and in terms of free speech, the united states was always more or less of a fierce protector of those rights. at least at least nominally. and in pressured. um, the europeans to at least pay lip service or, or to the idea of free expression. it's the laws were never as powerful. the protections were never as powerful in western european countries as they are in the states. but at least there was the perception that people could say more or less, whatever they wanted. as long as it was within reason. if the united states goes the way of other autocracies around the world, you know what i was in russia when the speech landscape changed significantly from me. you know, early nineties to the 2, thousands one, those changes happen. they,

they very seldom go back. i mean, that's one of the things that people that i'd appreciate map will get back to this about diabetes, stuff to you, the more from the award winning journalist co publisher, the to the files and form a contributing editor of rolling stone after his break. the there's no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the earth. is the case for the med, most of the people. i tried to go to the gym, but i'm certainly not ready to fight russia. this is also absurd. this is the 3rd world lunacy re washington test for so the funder line likes to say we have the

tools while we just start with stability and business deals to be living on mag, you have fabulous propaganda. you know a price here in your i think we don't know the aftermath any time that you're not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. the more questions ask the better the answer is will be the welcome back to going on. right now i'm still here with the award winning trying lisco publisher, the to the files and because of america this week met you be math and you up did you when you were talking about russian censorship and things not going back go on . because if people i know to know that you spend so much time in russian and that you speak russian and you, uh, you know, about rush or the evil evil rush or is, is known and nato countries. you know, i don't know but evil. i mean, i, i but i did live in russia for 11 years, this big russian,

i still follow the news russian. i read russian news. um and you know, i was friends with a lot of russian reporters in the ninety's of some, you know, some great reporters who taught me a lot of how to do this job. and it's not just there, but really anywhere around the world when the speech landscape changes, it's just very difficult to get those rights back. and they, it almost seems to, the virginia never really goes off what back in the bottle it's so i think people in america don't appreciate that because we've never really had a situation, at least not in the memory of, you know, currently living americans. if you go back to say the palmer reads and the twenty's and some you know, the l. e and instead of the manufacturing concept, how much would the palace hotel? italian idea then? uh the the then followed the palmer raids and mccarthy is right. but we didn't, we didn't have the kind of direct control over media distribution and content that

the they're able to do. now, it was much more subtle even, you know, we were so subtle that people who worked in the media their whole lives like um, you know, my father myself. i mean, we didn't see it. for the most part, we understood that it was there, but it wasn't like people were coming in with a red pencil telling you not to write this or that it was just if you were the wrong kind of person, you didn't get promoted. but yes, it's what's going on now is just is much more in cities and much more threatening to the long term outlook for free expression. and i do want to get to the, to the files and remind people about that. but what is it exactly? they want to sense and most abiding harris administration. i mean, people talked about tech talk because of what it was revealing about the guise of genocide. they're obviously in west, in your mess, censorship of anything on ukraine. i mean, that's why rumble what bands in france way back and or to you of course,

was banned because west and you're ukraine. very important and gone as a very important what other issues is it about stopping trump from winning the presidency? are certainly i think stopping from from winning the presidency is one of the reasons i think this started this movement towards censorship in the states really began with rex it in the election of donald trump. that's when we started to see new organizations like the global engagement center, which is the wing of the state department devoted to counter messaging. these are government institutions that are looking at the media landscape here in the states and worrying about the impact of it worldwide. so what we're used to do counter messaging against isis. now we do it against populace movements here at home. so

clearly they are very worried about the ukraine news. i mean, you can't get any news about you crime. most americans have no idea what's going on with that more because there's no reliable source of news is real clearly they, they're not loving the fact that there are so many images coming out of regardless strip. but they were able to successfully suppress. most of the protests that happened at the democratic national convention last week, even though you could see my line, they weren't on television. that's for sure. so, um, i think it's a combination of those things. it's foreign policy initiatives, but clearly also they, they do not. they want to be able to shape domestic political opinion about a variety of things from elections to cobra, to other things. i'm sure it was a dismay of trump and bricks it because i mean, julian essentials on this program to hear about google under the obama administration in the close ties with silicon valley. back then just before trump or just oh god, absolutely look. even before, even before were 2 weeks appeared,

there were close ties between the national security apparatus here and in the states. um and all of these tech platforms. uh, you know, tens of thousands of national security letters going out, getting information about the users of tech platforms, intelligence about what their media habits are. but there was a new stage in the evolution of some of these government programs. and this is part of what we uncovered, and that's what our files, where they, they started to build drop receives in the state department in the f, b i a and in the pentagon that they start to shift them. they had once been kind of counter terrorist organizations, and now we're being focused inward, on domestic speech, in a, in a very blunt and direct way that is new that, that may have been going on just to

a degree with the a sergeant student. but that was kind of isolated, and this is now an organized major part of the, you know, sort of military contracting world. they're building out this, this keep this capacity. and it's not just for a couple of actors. so if trump wins and this time around and actually drain some of the swamp rather than um, creating a more swamp life with our f k junior and josie gab and all the rest of them. uh, does that mean something new or bugs? the whole trial will be required for all these officials with the, i mean you just mentioned so many agencies just homeland security ca pentagon, and a say there must be these low level personnel and all of them a cooperating and violations of the us constitution. yes, i would say um, there are an awful lot of people who are violating at least the spirit if not the

letter of law. i mean that's why we're, we're beginning to see more the whistle blowers come forward from the national security apparatus you just mentioned. but tulsa gabbert, uh, it just came out a couple of weeks ago that uh, she's been put on what they call the quiet skies list here in the states. uh, and uh, selected for what they call special mission coverage. so she had trios of air marshals following her on every flight that she took a and even after that story got out, they continue doing it. so i think that's illegal if and when there are here ends about that there, there are probably going to be consequences for whoever made those decisions. but there's just a whole speed of things that since the beginning of since 911, really the, you know, from drone assassination, to domestic surveillance. a lot of these programs are just not legal, but they exist in this space that the government is chosen to say exist beyond the

reach of domestic law. and you know, it will be, i think we will need to have some kind of a nor a bridge style commission to go through it all. but it's good if we ever get to that point. but it will take a long time. but some i'd say to us together, the backing of the guys a genocide, shoemaker on a put it on a no flies list. actually what happened to you after read off to you testified in congress to jim jordan next week. i think it was the guy who. ready talk about accent, the lesson to this week. you understand you were targeted, but you're not on a no fly list. you can, you can visit us and do by no, no, no, no, no fly list. um, you know, there might be other lists that i'm on and who knows you in a while and was testifying to the hospitalization of government committee. mean it's all around it. i'm testifying to the house weapon ization of government committee as i was doing that the iris visit in my house in new jersey.

and i don't have tax problems actually, the government owes me money. and so i came home after testifying and there was a note that have been left to my door. and subsequently they investigated that there was actually a policy change as a result, as a result of that incident. but i thought it was supposed actually age what the c i a then is a kind of order the iris to harass people. the treasury department agreed to drastically reduce they say the number of home visits that the, that ira i r s agents will conduct going forward. so i guess that's a good thing, but um, you know, it, it certainly felt a little intimidating after work and who knows how many of those things are going on. you know, we're going undergraduate degree like, 1000000000 is so it's all good here. i am showing here about how terrible it is and defending 5 elder of you said, and here i am, i have had to defend the less who you worked with you said must cause prove to be

very disappointing on free speech. why would you say that about the person who has liberated the world after what you revealed intuitive files as methods to ship? uh, you know, you know, unless, cuz then, so, i mean, obviously there is some things on palestine. he's been accused of particularly in his friendship and netanyahu, but he's being the great all the golf, feudal overlord, as me as well, look up. one of the reasons i've been relatively muted in, you know, speaking about your mosque is because i'm always going to be grateful to, to him for doing taking the unprecedented step of opening up. twitter is internal files to journalists. i mean, it could have been, me, could have been any report or that was something that's never happened in american history. and we learned a lot about all sorts of sort of the things that were going on that we would never have done without that move of his. so that's most in my mind. um,

but at the same time uh he oh, elected to a sort of di, amplify, any links from the sites that i happen to use, which is concepts deck. so even as i was doing the twitter files i was being de amplified on twitter and i'm still being the amplifier on twitter. so i can't exactly know that. oh yeah i do. i do know that for sure. yeah, yeah, i mean they, they told me i was at the beginning, they may deny it now. but if you just look at the traffic numbers it's, it's nowhere near the same. but i haven't, i'm not particularly worried about that. i think in the, in the larger scheme of things, you know, call them up as a re amplifier. i mean, i'm dead because of because i, i sided with some stacking this dispute of is, was of stuck. so you know, if you look, it's unfortunate. i, i actually think it's a misunderstanding. i wish we could sit down and talk because i don't think he

understands my position on the whole thing. but you know, he's a private owner. it's his company. he can do what he wants. and i still think in the larger scheme of things, even if he is, you know, toggling the levels of a, you know, attention for this issue over that issue. that's still a very different thing than what was going on under the predecessor organization. which was, you know, this active, intense constant interaction with the d h s the f b i and you know, the, the state department not you know, that as a whole new different level of censorship that davey. thank you. thank so much from . yeah. and that's it. for the show continued condolences to those very by you gay you as you, i'm genocide here in west asia will be devoting monday's program to it when we challenge israel's former investor to the usa, denny island. until then keep in touch with my social media of its authentic meal country, and i do i channel going on the warranty on rumble dot com to let you know the

episodes i'm going underground team under the the look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people, a robot must obey the orders given by human beings accept. we're such orders at conflict with the 1st law show your mind, anticipation. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence. the point obviously is to create a trust rather than fit the various job with artificial intelligence. we have somebody in the team and the

robot most protects this phone existence was alexis the line. so again, my prolong, who is marching orders is the french left wing. all position long to the been increased, the president was the rightful in, cools on people's and saying to the fish in an i'm think governmental demonstration 5, the veterans killed them many more wounded in the russian border region of belt, broad as shells, the residential buildings with the cost of all this confirmed is by the local government says he is on the enters into the region, has turned into a blood off with the cleaning and fault is unable to reach any of the goals. it's that meanwhile, the russian is pardon me. if the driver has a very idea to,

i'm sorry.