hello, international review is on air, in the studio fyodor lukyanov. today on the international review program. events of the week. chronicle, facts, comments. 21st century prisoner julian asansh has been released . what will happen to wikileaks now? you can’t strangle this song, you can’t kill it. trump vs biden. live: the most unusual

debate in us history. dangerous parliamentary elections. france is the litmus test of europe. materials of our program. us president theodore roosevelt, speaking before the senate on april 14, 196, called, one could even say, he called a large group of journalists. writers, muckrakers. according to the president, these people did not see anything good around them, they only delved into various types of dirt of american society, that is , in the problems of vices, carefully scrupulously recording everything and putting it on display for general discussion, and these people were all mostly well educated who had a well-paid, interesting job, but at the same time they are volunteers.

kasanju in 2006 in connection with the launch of the wikileaks website, made on the principle of wikipedia. through him, anyone could incriminate anyone on anyone. the resource was reliably protected. it was impossible to remove published material from it, and the swedish company, on whose site the main server was located, gave a guarantee that the site would never be closed at the request of the court. in 2007, based on data from wikelex, the british gardaí.

iranian president ahmed nijad was compared to hitler. time magazine then named asandzh its person of the year. shortly after the publication of the afghan dossier, two swedish women accused asandzh of sexual harassment. court in stockholm issued an order for his detention. fearing extradition to the united states, asansh took refuge in the same ecuadorian embassy in london. when, after 7 years, he was expelled from there, according to some sources, for collecting. dirt on the president of ecuador. london police put him in prison. the journalist was facing more than 100 years in prison, but the american ministry of justice offered him a deal, and he chose freedom. asansh arrived in australia,

reunited with his family after much ordeal. the end of the case was received with relief. washington demanded extradition to usa, but the prospect of a high-profile trial. there was no excitement there, it would have become another reason for irreconcilable battles, and there is enough polarization in an election year: it’s hard to blame asandzh himself for conciliation, he has long proven his integrity, but spending the rest of his life in prison, for some unknown reason, is a choice flashy but senseless, so admitting one charge in exchange for time already served is reasonable. a plea deal.

cases, a deal with the investigation does not imply that the investigation, yes, that is, from the side the prosecution is absolutely free in what it proposes as a punishment, it doesn’t matter, that is, this side of the prosecution is guided by the restrictions provided for by the current legislation, from the point of view of, well

, for what crimes what punishments can be assigned, we’re just talking about that if there is a certain, what is called a penalty range, yes, that is , a minimum and a maximum, then... the task of this, this deal and its benefit for the accused is that there is no talk of maximums, we are talking about the minimum, consequently he will assign the minimum possible, or he will choose only one of the charges, for example, or only, for example, one of the sane accused, or for example, only one episode, and most often, well, or often in any case, the speech it means that he will impose the same punishment that he has already served during the investigation process. relieving themis, let’s say, but when it comes to such high-profile cases, isn’t it too easy? in fact, we are talking about recognition, in fact, a classical,

generally medieval thing, when man, when confession is the queen of evidence, this procedure itself is very seriously debated in the united states itself, including because.

a precedent in the legal sense has not been created, because the court did not consider this case, it is not a court, which means it confirmed that yes, we now consider this a criminal offense, so the situation here is very ambivalent, on the one hand it is bad for journalism there, and well in general, for freedom of speech, on the other hand , it’s good that at least he wasn’t found guilty in this case, by the court itself, for example, so that this did not become a precedent, that is , a legal one... from a political-legal, so to speak, point of view, here, of course, a lot of questions are created about the procedure itself, not so much even

about the procedure itself, specifically about its application to such cases that may become indicative. yes, many people talk about this: journalistic activity has been equated with espionage, there is not much of a precedent, but honestly , is detached truth-seeking possible in the conditions of an acute cold war? is it doomed to be perceived as sabotage by the enemy or not? our our interlocutor today is olga baisha, she knows all the ins and outs of the modern crazy media world, she has researched it in different countries. hello, olya! hello! well, asansh , as a symbol of such courageous opposition to the american state, evokes sympathy and warm feelings among many. but let’s imagine a mirror situation, that such a whistleblower appears among us, who is also an exceptionally sincere idealist. we probably won’t really welcome his activities, how should we generally treat him now?

this phenomenon? the idea was to provide an opportunity for any people who want to extract their governments, their secrecy, their inaccessibility, some kind of information for residents, for citizens of their country, to provide the opportunity, in fact, to dump, hand over, leak these secrets information, so at first it was the middle east, then thanks to...

how can you protect it, where is journalism here, in fact, it was just the cra who took the materials

that mening provided him and leaked them to the internet, these are very confidential conversations between diplomats who actually have something to do with the security of the country, in any country he would be condemned, in any country, it is believed that in america the situation is somewhat different, because the first amendment protects editors, journalists, publishers, protects in what sense? protects, if you yourself didn’t steal these documents, if you took them somewhere, that’s how the maning’s assistant actually published it, then yes, you protect, you’re not a criminal, you’re just considered that this is what people need to know, this influences life, then in november 2010 he published for example, i was in the states, i remember this shock and horror, it was equated to september 11, simply because after that the same saudi princes who called... iran, roughly speaking, an earthworm, began to make excuses, i don’t remember literally, and asked to attack iran, that is, this

is serious, they made excuses, the lebanese president made excuses, as far as i remember, for the fact that he covered up, in fact, the information, hid the information that american missiles hit civilians, there was a lot there actually it was just a serious shock for american diplomacy, on the other hand, i mean, this... us state department analyst daniel ellsberg gave the pentagon documents to the new york times about the country's participation in the vietnam conflict. almost 7.00 pages of information about the operations of the us military in north vietnam, as well as evidence of the direct participation of the lyndon johnson administration in the escalation

of the conflict and misleading the us congress. ellsberg was threatened for disclosing state secrets. 116 years in prison, but under pressure the court acquitted him to the public. a year later, in june seventy-two in washington, during the election campaign, the police detained five people who were setting up work in the office of the us democratic party in the othergate hotel. among those arrested were former cia agents from nixon's campaign headquarters, and although the news did not influence voters and nixon was re-elected, the scandal continued to develop. a washington post source under the pseudonym "deep throat" claimed that the trail leads all the way to the top. the president was recording all the conversations in the oval office, when the investigation demanded to provide the film, it turned out to be damaged in the most important place. it turned out that nixon personally tried to hush up the matter. after this, impeachment became

a foregone conclusion even for republicans. in august '74, nixon resigned. in 2003, american diplomat joseph wilson published an article in which he stated that the george w. bush administration launched the war in iraq on the basis of deliberately false intelligence. in 2002, he traveled to niger, where he became personally convinced that saddam hussein was not was going to buy yellow uranium for the production of weapons of mass destruction, but the white house deliberately did not make this information public. a week after the article was published , an action followed: together the press published material that revealed the identity of his wife, undercover cia agent valerie plame. this put an end to her career and endangered her loved ones. the white house denied all allegations. in november 209, before the un climate summit in copenhagen, the so -called climate gate erupted. hackers leaked

correspondence of eastern university employees england in norwich, from which it followed that it was american. climatologists deliberately distorted data on global warming; in correspondence they discussed what tricks could be used so that in graphs about the increase in global temperature, it would not be noticeable that in some years the temperature not only did not increase, but even decreased. in 2013, edward snowden, a former cia employee of the us national security agency, handed over about 200,000 classified documents to newspapers, after which he fled to hong kong. there he told how american intelligence agencies are monitoring internet users and listening to negotiations of foreign leaders, this has caused a series of international scandals. snowden confirmed that back in 2010, the us government authorized hacker attacks on foreign political party organizations. in the united states, he was charged in absentia with espionage.

snowden asked for political asylum, stayed in russia and got married. march is at its height.

satiety with all this, and secondly, these are enemies, it’s all dispersive, i agree with you, here, and well, firstly, it was time, i wonder when in 2010, so to speak, he made all this information public, basically everything was in 2010, what time it was, america was very tired of the iraq war, that is, it had already lasted 7 years by that time, it was very the war was unpopular by that time, obama came to power in 2009, he promised to stop the war, close gontanama and so on. this was not done in 2010, so it is, as they say, that the grains fell on the right soil, on good soil, that is, it was the right moment, moreover, it is very important here, that it is very important to understand that asange on his own would hardly have... achieved such success, but although his ideology was such as to publish raw information, he believed that any editing, any framing,

harms the information, people have the right, but he quickly realized that people may have the right, but to sort out all this informational rubbish, well, actually, who will be, well, there are no people willing among the masses, so to speak, the population, so he turned then in 2010 to the mainstream media information washington post, new york times and so on, which... they went to say cooperation with him, because they really thought that it was very important, but they began to frame, edit, but actually bring everything to the denominator, to to which , so to speak, our modern humanity is accustomed. let’s imagine that the same thing happened today, firstly, the mainstream media, after this story , will no longer play these games, they won’t, we know this for sure, the new york times, washington post, garden, they don’t publish anything like that , which runs counter to the interests of the american state today. second aspect. today we are really immersed in the world of the internet, where for any such information there will be 101 versions of other information, where i will say that this is fake, this, and so on and

so forth, and they will also fabricate videos that will contradict what you saw, so a person again, it’s very difficult to figure it out, please tell me, here you are, among other things, a theorist of the media sphere, that in general such very hard work now is this phenomenon that everyone is talking about now post-truth, that is, if... two are different, that is, there are categories of people to whom no matter what you bring, no matter what facts you tell, and you know for sure that these are facts, they still won’t believe it, because

they will we are sure that this is russian propaganda, on the other hand the same thing, these are absolutely two non-overlapping worlds, this is actually post-truth, why do emotions speak, emotions in the sense that we are emotionally committed to some kind of truth, that is, we believe in some kind of truth, this is not an objective truth, as ... we believed with times of enlightenment, that there is objectivity to the truth, and this is such a subjective truth, which is inherent in certain categories of people, this is a very serious question, in fact, which really deserves to be discussed, although, excuse me, this is not necessarily a lie, this maybe it’s just a selection, a certain selection of real facts, naturally, people choose what they like, of course, but this turns out to be not even an information war, it’s something else, it’s not like this they sit, people come up with ideas and...

this week, dramatic events took place in different parts of the globe. an attempted military coup in lithium-rich bolivia failed, and unrest broke out in kenya so severe that president william root was forced to abandon the austerity package approved by parliament. the situation is classic, but it has never been so bright anywhere for a long time. the imf demands it. for the population is revolting, from kenya and our constant fulfillment of the conditions of the assistance program, the authors. kenyans suddenly found themselves in new

in reality, discontent was expressed on the street, and the country's president william ruta refused to sign the controversial tax bill, and this happened just a few hours after it was passed by parliament. the rejection of this bill means that some economic development programs, worth 200 billion shillings, will need to be cut, and the adoption of others ... postponed next year, with the help of the controversial bill, the authorities were going to replenish the treasury, the government wanted to increase the import tax rate, and pay she should the importer introduced an additional tax on the construction and equipment of hospitals. many kineans feared that this would make health care unaffordable to them. we are not afraid of anything, because tomorrow it will be even worse for us. if they can't do what

they were supposed to do,

everything collapses, who will compensate us for the damage? the authorities say they are ensuring our safety, i have no words. kenya is at a critical moment; the withdrawal of the tax law is a signal for a more meaningful dialogue with the opposition. the nation is still waiting for the government solving the problem of budget deficit, ensuring security and economic stability. the kenyan government is being tested to prove its ability to balance economic

reforms with need. after advertising for the main show of the week, a debate between two us presidents, current and former, took place, for the first time in history, by the way.