okay. good afternoon, and welcome to the san francisco historic preservation commission hearing for wednesday, march 20th, 2024. when we reached the item, you are interested in speaking to, please line up on the screen side of the room or to your right. each speaker will be allowed up to three minutes, and when you have 30s remaining, you will hear a chime indicating your time is almost up. when your allotted time is reached, i will announce that your time is up and take the next person queued to speak. please speak clearly and slowly and if you care to state your name for the record, i ask that we silence any mobile devices that may sound off during these proceedings. finally, i will remind members of the public that the commission does not tolerate any disruption or outbursts of any kind at this time. i'd like to take roll

commission. president matsuda here. commission vice president warren here. commissioner baldauf here. commissioner campbell here. commissioner foley, present. commissioner vergara here. and commissioner right here. thank you. commissioners, first on your agenda is general public comment at this time, members of the public may address the commission on items of interest to the public that are within the subject matter jurisdiction of the commission, except agenda items with respect to agenda items, your opportunity to address the commission will be afforded when the item is reached in the meeting. each member of the public may address the commission for up to three minutes. again if you are. if you wish to speak under general public comment, please come forward. last call. seeing none, general. good afternoon. i just preserve everything. don't touch anything. historic things. because it's very important for what's coming in the future. are we going? sorry. are we going to change? basically the city to

make it beautiful. so you have to absolutely preserve anything that could be historically, artistically, obviously, because otherwise it's going to be very hard if you touch anything to, have a sociological study of what happened in the last few years. so make your best. i shouldn't be here because, you know, your job is to preserve the stuff, right? okay. enough destruction. is that okay? have a good day, guys. thank you. i would just like to say, first of all, good morning, everybody. good afternoon. it's afternoon now, but i've been to the space just a few times. and it really is something special in the city. that's not really, i guess corrupted by, i guess, usual, like profit incentive means. and i think that's getting rarer and

rarer as time goes on. so anything that people can do to preserve things like that would be good. thank you, thank you. final last call for general public comment for items not on today's agenda. seeing none. public comment is closed and we can move on to department matters. item one department announcements. good afternoon commissioners. i just wanted to flag a couple of items for you, as you know, the california preservation foundation conference is upcoming in the end of may, basically after memorial day. this is a great way to meet your preservation training requirement, that we have as a certified local government. so if you're interested, we will happily pass on some information to you, this conference is something that our staff is usually heavily featured in and helps to showcase all the kind of great work that we're doing within our historic preservation program. relative to your landmark designation work program, just wanted to provide an update that

the grand theater landmark designation has moved its way through the board and is pending signature with the mayor. in addition, the westwood park entry gateways, and the one more, the sacred heart church are also moving their way through the legislative process at the board, other than that, that's all of my updates, and i'm available for any questions. thank you, mr. secret, what, workshops will the staff be involved in at the cpf conference? i think right now, alex westhoff is planning to present on some of our work relative to the cultural districts, as well as featuring some of the work at sf survey, where is it going to be this year, it's at the biltmore and i can get the downtown los angeles. yeah, in downtown los angeles. can you afford us information about that? thank you. if there's nothing further, commissioners commission matters. item two. consideration of adoption draft minutes for

the february 21st arc and regular hearings. members of the public, this is your opportunity to address the commission on. they're minutes. again, you'll need to come forward seeing none . public comment is closed and your minutes are now before you commission motion to approve. is there a second, second second? thank you. commissioners on that motion to adopt the minutes, commissioner baldauf. that doesn't recuse you from participating on the minutes. so you need to vote either. i or nay. nay commissioner campbell. yes. commissioner. vergara. yes commissioner. wright. yes, commissioner. foley i. commissioner warren i and commissioner. president. matsuda. yes. so move. commissioners a motion passes 6 to 1, with commissioner baldauf voting against commissioners. i will place this on item three. commission comments and questions, i have a few

announcements and one disclosure. i guess the first is the disclosure commissioner nakasone and i participated in a zoom meeting, regarding today's agenda item number nine on the waterfront resilience program. then, just to remind the commissioners that your form 700 is due by april 2nd, 20. excuse me. april 2nd, 2024. and, that i received or i am not sure if all of you received an email from todd williams dated march 13th, 2024 regarding the board's ordinance to designate the grand theater as a landmark designation and alleging that both the board and the hbc violated notice provisions. and i was wondering if i could ask for the city attorney to comment on that. good afternoon,

commissioners. deputy city attorney peter melnick, yes. we've conferred with the planning department staff regarding the grand theater, landmark designation, and after conferring, we determined that the various notices that the city issued were indeed legally sufficient and that the landmark designation itself is supported by a substantial evidence in the record. thank you. thank you, and my last, comment or notification is, from the national trust. it's from, christina morris about that. they're backing historic small restaurants. and i was wondering , mr. sucré, if you could forward this to, the office of small business regarding grants. as much as i think it said $50,000 or $50,000 grants, if they can be considered under this. that's wonderful. yes, i

will certainly pass it on. our legacy business program might also be very interested in it. yes thank you. that's all. seeing no additional requests to speak from members of the commission, we can move on to consideration of items proposed for continuance at the time of issuance, and still to this moment, there are no items proposed to be continued. placing us under the regular calendar for items for a, b, c, and d case numbers 2024 hyphen 001550 lbr, 2024 hyphen 001551 lbr 2024. hyphen 001552 lbr, and 2024. hyphen 001555 lbr for the properties at 1309 grant avenue, 99 green street, 2145 taraval street, and 1549 noriega street, respectively. these are all legacy business registry applications. good afternoon, commissioners elena moore, planning staff. today we have

four legacy business applications. before you. staff will present and afterwards members of the public and business representatives will have a chance to speak during public comment. i will hand it over to michelle to present the first two legacy businesses for you. thank you. hello, commissioners. michelle langley, department staff. the first legacy business application we have today is for restaurante ideal, bright and colorful italian restaurant specializing in authentic roman cuisine that has been bringing bringing rome to north beach since 1993. the restaurant was founded at 1309 grant avenue by maurizio bruschi and his brother stefano. stefano and business partner carlo ferrieri, and is still located there today. it is a modern version of a traditional roman trattoria known for its homemade pastas and bread, utilizing locally sourced ingredients and their extensive italian wine

offerings, ideal serves north beach as well as diners from all over the bay area. italy also appeals to many tourists, especially europeans and italians, seeking nostalgic favorites. notable diners have included nancy pelosi and francis ford coppola, to name a few. performer carol doda used to hang out at the bar nightly with a famed condor club located a short distance away. ristorante italia contributes to the cultural fabric of north beach as an immigrant owned business, the business is committed to maintaining their authentic, simple and rustic roman italian cuisine, which includes homemade pastas, breads and desserts crafted by using only the freshest ingredients. they are also committed to maintaining their recognizable signage and storefronts. staff supports this application and recommends a resolution to add the restaurant to the legacy business registry. the second legacy business application we are presenting is for gfdl's

engineers. gfdl's engineers is a structural engineering firm founded in 1952 by william b gilbert at 202 green street in the jackson square embarcadero area. gph d's engineers has expanded over the years and acquired numerous new partners. the business also has changed locations several times to support the company's expansion. currently located at 99 green street, the firm has a rich history of providing structural engineering expertise to clients in the san francisco bay area and beyond. their highly trained engineering staff is skilled in the latest structural analysis techniques, including building information modeling technologies such as revit servicing all of san francisco, jeff diaz engineers clients include architects, homeowners and schools, local and state governments, and contractors. the company's dedication to fine architecture and design sensibility has earned it an award winning client list, and their portfolio includes

distinctive residential estates and signature landmarks like the california palace of the legion of honor. additionally, gsd's engineers has had the honor of collaborating with renowned architects such as robert a m stern and lawrence halprin. these partnerships have resulted in the creation of architectural masterpieces that contribute to san francisco's unique character. these landmarks are integral to san francisco's cultural and historic heritage. by bringing architectural visions to life, the company has played a role in shaping the city's skyline and infrastructure. staff supports this application and recommends a resolution to add to add gph, dds engineers to the legacy business registry. i will now hand it over to my colleague edgar. good afternoon. members of the historic preservation commission, heathcote oropeza, with department staff presenting the third and fourth application before you. first up is the bay area bird and exotics hospital,

located at 2145 wall street bay area bird and exotics hospital. founded in 1989 as a veterinary hospital dedicated to the care of avian and exotic pets, this includes birds, rabbits, rodents , and reptiles. exotic pets have special needs when your bird, reptile or small mammal develops a problem, it's important to be seen quickly by an experienced veterinarian. barry, a bird and exotic hospital, treats thousands of avian, variant and exotic patients each year by limiting their practice to these species, they have accumulated an in depth knowledge and experience that translates into expert treatment for your pet. bay area bird and exotics hospital serves both local and those that travel from outside of the san francisco bay area. the business provides a dedicated care for a variety of underserved pet animal species. staff supports this application and recommends a resolution to add bay area bird and exotics hospital to the legacy business registry. the final application is a and w contractors located

at 1549 noriega street and w contractors, supplies and installs windows in san francisco and the san francisco bay area. the company could customize windows to fit individual styles or have repairs made to existing windows. their team of installers has years of experience in this industry and helps clients find their right windows that will last for years, and w contractors offers a variety of window styles and colors that customers could customize to meet their needs. with great selection of material, colors, new windows, and window treatments reflect different tastes and lifestyles. a.a w was founded in 1983, is an immigrant and minority and women owned family business that has been operating continuously within the sunset district for over 40 years. the business namesakes, angela and william chu, immigrated to san francisco in the late 60s, and w is the first chinese speaking window company within the sunset district, and possibly the entirety of san francisco.

angela, who became the sole proprietor of a.a in 1988, has found decades long success with longevity in the male dominated window installation business. angela is affectionately known as the window lady, with the reputation of honesty, low prices and trustworthiness. staff supports this application and recommends the resolution to add a aa contractor to the legacy business registry. this concludes staff's presentation. thank you. thank you. with that, commissioners, we should open up public comment. members of the public, this is your opportunity to address the commission on any of these legacy business registry applications. you'd like to speak? please come forward. last call for comment on any of these. legacy business registry applications. seeing

none public comment is did you want to make public comment or. no. would anyone like to make public comment on any of these legacy business registry applications? any of the four? okay. seeing none, public comment is closed and items are now before you. commissioners. thank you. commissioners commissioner foley, i pretty much say the same thing every time is i really love i really do love what we're doing here. but i want to date myself, and that is, i actually moved to north beach before idol was open , and i used to eat there a lot, and i should go back and start eating again. thank you very much. any other comments from the commissioners? i think i just wanted to make a comment. i

think, the legacy businesses teaches us that even though covid is behind us, that there are still many small businesses that are struggling because of the effects, the economic effects of what happened during the pandemic. and i think it will really was clear about that in their description about a decrease of 85% of their profits in 2020. and i just would like to encourage the commission, to try and support all the legacy businesses that we are, privileged to know about, and hopefully we can continue to keep these legacy businesses alive for decades to come. i'll be here tonight. motion to approve. great second. second. thank you. commissioners. seeing no other comments from the commissioners, there is a motion that has been seconded to adopt recommendations for approval for

all of these legacy business registry applications. on that motion, commissioner baldauf i commissioner campbell. yes, commissioner vergara. yes, commissioner. right. yes. commissioner. foley i. commissioner. warren. yes. and commission president. matsuda. yes so moved. commissioners. that motion passes unanimously 7 to 0. folks, for those persons standing in the chambers, you need to find a seat. if you cannot find a seat, we do have an overflow room, 408, where you can watch and listen to these proceedings. so. but does look like there is still several seats available. thank you for your cooperation. i think there's one seat in the front. okay, commissioners, that will place us on item five for case number 2016. hyphen 013156s rv. hyphen zero three. for the citywide historic context statement inner sunset historic context statement. this is for your consideration to adopt,

modify, or disapprove. good afternoon, commissioners elena moore. planning staff. today we are bringing the inner sunset historic context statement before you for adoption. the inner sunset historic context statement was prepared for the san francisco office of economic and workforce development. the historic preservation fund committee, and the inner sunset park neighbors by architectural historian william kostura. the department reviewed and commented on the historic context statement, as well as hosted a community outreach event with william kostura. the department supports the adoption of the document, and i will now hand it over to william castera to present his research and his work on the document. thank you. commissioners, we need to speak to you. use the microphone for us. thank you, author of the document. before i start on my

talk, let me first ask how many of you have had a chance to read the historic context statement that will help me know what to what to say. all of you. okay, then i can be a little more brief. instead of having to explain everything over here, i used to work with you. with you? i was eager to do this history because i lived in the inner sunset for 11 years, roughly 1980, 1991, when i was first starting to get my architectural history. eyes and to train myself to become a historian. and i went all over the neighborhood and i looked for all the houses that i thought would count as queen anne and oldest houses in the neighborhood, and i thought i understood it pretty well, you know, decades later. right. this thing. and i realized, no, i

really didn't know the neighborhood well yet. at all, because it's not until you look at every house and then you do a lot of research on many of the buildings that you, really get a sense of the neighborhood's history. so i, i walked the entire neighborhood, looked at every building, looked at, nearly all of the buildings twice, and looked at quite a few of them, many more than two times each, and i researched several hundred buildings, date built first owner who the architect or builder was, not that i needed to include all that in the historic context statement, but only by researching many, many, many buildings do you get a sense of what the patterns of history were and who the important builders were, and when the neighborhood developed and at what rate it developed. and, and since the upzoning is a major

issue these days, i'll mention the commercial buildings along ninth avenue and on irving street. and i got a sense of how many there were commercial buildings on those two streets by a certain date, and how many of them are still stand, and are the ones that still stand? how many of them retain most of their architectural features? and so all that is in the document. i did not evaluate a single building as being historic or not historic. that wasn't the job i just gave the background and of all the buildings that are in the document, some of them are older and better examples, and some of them are later and less good examples. and some of them are, more intact and some of them are

less intact. and so just because it's in the document doesn't mean it's historic. i'm leaving that up to the planners and whoever may, evaluate a building individually when that time comes, so it's up to you, but the background information is there. one of the first jobs was to determine what are the boundaries. and, sfcv. can we go to the overhead, please? it does not. do you do you want to pull it down? so. i did this

once before, maybe 15 years ago. okay, great. so by convention, everyone knows the eastern boundary is arguello street. northern boundary is weekend boulevard. golden gate park, western boundary in places at least, is 19th avenue, and the southern boundary is jagged. and basically it comes to a point in between seventh avenue and the valley down there and golden gate heights on the west. now, this doesn't relate to buildings that still stand, but, i wanted to research the early history, very early history, beginnings of the history of the inner sunset, and as well as i could, i traced the ownership back to

these several large tracts, four large tracts and two little, taggants. and all these tracks were much larger, by the way, the byfield tract in blue, came out here on on to mount sutro and, and this orange track, the winter tract, it went west maybe to 19th avenue, something like that. but this is just the inner sunset part. and, i was able to count how many buildings were built. 20. from in 1862 to 1887, about one per year. and then from from the time the neighborhood began to suburbanize. here's the chart. very slow at first, a mild peak during the midwinter fair. and

then it really spiked in 1902, and then after that, the byfield tract was developed and it became much more rapid. anything built up through the 1899 1900, it's the rarest of the rare. some of them were more intact than others. i have a couple views of, early views that i've been able to this one, i've been able to annotate, but that's in the document. here's an 1894 view from, strawberry hill in golden gate park. a few of these houses still stand. this house on the top, built in 1894, is

just a few doors down from where i lived for 11 years. an old lady sat on the porch and waved goodbye to people and descended a family that lived there since 1900. and a few more. and i didn't pull building permits for every building. that would be way too big a job. just absolutely not time. but as well as i could, i said no, what's intact, what's not, what changes have been made. so this house right here, here's an early view of it. then it was stripped and stuccoed, and then someone restored it. and it's almost not exactly but almost the way it was in the 1950s. and this house on irving street, no one notices because it's behind a storefront. you can get a sense

of how intact it is, how altered. let me go. if i'm going over time wise, please. how much time do you feel you need, five. six minutes. great. is that fine? sure. okay here's the store. ozymandias on ninth avenue. you can see it was a house. and then maybe in the 1950s, i don't remember. it was raised up in the storefront, put underneath, but above the storefront. it's intact. shingle style houses, craftsman houses. there are a lot of craftsman houses in the inner sunset. i think that the inner sunset and the inner richmond have the best

, flat out the best collection of craftsman houses in all of san francisco. there's so many you can't say that the survivors are the last remaining examples. but as a collection, they're quite striking. and like i say, comparable only to the inner richmond. so how do you decide what's historic? well, i have my own ideas. i do, but i'm leaving it up to others. there are a lot of apartment buildings from the 1920s in the inner sunset, mostly on corner

lots. a lot of them. are. have brick veneer, orangish brick veneer. and the brick has been textured. and nearly all of them are by the same architect, j.c. holodeck, so. they're a theme. you know. are they all historic? should they all be preserved, i've got my own ideas, but i find them to be very, very attractive. just to repeat what you've already read here, some shingle style houses and the shingles of course, they're not stucco, so

they have color and texture to their surfaces. that's why i like the older houses. they have more color and texture. craftsman style houses a different style than shingle, although they're often blended. there are a lot of what you have to call mission revival houses. they have these mission revival tops, and they're often blended with craftsman style. you know, they're not pure anything, some of them are a little goofy. you know, i kind of like that. and, period revival houses, the 1930s, early period revival houses from 1930 31, 32 are pretty elaborately ornamented. they're very spirited, the most

famous group in san francisco is the about on, like, 30th, 31 first, 32nd avenue and sunset by the russos, inner sunset has a smattering after after the early 1930s, the form continued, but they became increasingly spare in their treatment, more restrained, a few of them bland. so because of the proposed upzoning, which i haven't seen anything about it just hearsay. but i gather the proposed upzoning is going to be concentrated along ninth avenue and irving street. is that true? so, i've tried to make a statement about how many commercial buildings were built and how many still stand, to me,

the ninth and irving intersection, a block each either way, going north and south and a few blocks going either way to the east and west, or the heart and soul of the inner sunset, the is where people congregate and the oldest and most intact of the commercial buildings on those streets near that intersection represent a pattern of history that's important. so what do you do with that? something to consider. here's some more commercial buildings at the top. to the left and to the right is the allen monkey. i spent countless, countless evenings at the allen monkey cafe. anyone who lived there then, love that place. and i'm very open about

which commercial buildings have been heavily altered, so these one story buildings that are very wide, some of them have some original details left. most of them, nearly all of them have some details left, but they're mostly altered. i'll wind up. yeah, that is your time. y'all saw the. commissioners may call you up for additional questions. i'm sorry. the commissioners may call you up for additional questions. if they have them. thank you. thank you very much. at this time, we should take public comment. members of the public, this is your opportunity to address the commission on this matter. again, you need to come forward and line up on the screen side of the commissioners, right. my name is chris duderstadt. i'm vice president of the inner sunset park neighbors. we were thrilled

when bill approached us lo those many years ago to want to do a historic review of our neighborhood. now that it is complete, we hope after all these years, it's going to be a real foundation for the people that live in our neighborhood to understand where they live and their sense of place. i'll tell you a very brief story. we bought our house in 78, and after we bought it, a little man in a three piece suit came up and said, my family built this house in 1907. he didn't like what some people had done to it, but he did add that his family had a barrel making business that they ran in the basement of it. now the house has been changed significantly. when the sidewalk easement was finally developed, they added another 15ft to the front of the house, removing a bay window. you can go in and look and see where it would have been. a lovely bay window, but the point is it gives you a sense of place. it gives you a sense of pride. and this is why we're really

thrilled to have this done, we're, you know, we're going to post it again. thank you for supporting it and funding it. and then we are going to have it published, and we will have it available for everyone in our neighborhood. and like the inner sunset is like many neighborhoods in our in our city, it's unique, it's unique, and it was founded with the midwinter fair. and it's always been joined at the hip with golden gate park, and this will help us maintain it. thank you very much. thank you. broke the microphone. good afternoon, commissioners, my name is robert cherney. i'm here. really in in wearing three hats today. although i only brought one of them, first of all, i am your representative to the historic preservation fund

committee, and i have not reported to you for the past few years because there hasn't been much to report about. but this is one of our projects. when this project came before the committee, i was very enthusiastic, and i can report to you that the fund committee is very pleased with this result . secondly, i was a peer reviewer for this, for the fund committee, in my capacity as a historian and i worked with bill very closely. he was very receptive to all of my suggestions. i found it to be excellent in every way, streetcar suburbs, which is what the inner sunset is, have been of interest to historians for a long time since i was in graduate school, and that was a very long time ago, and this is really an excellent study of a streetcar suburb, that i think may have implications beyond

just the immediate neighborhood. good, so as a peer reviewer, i could certainly commend this to you. and finally, i live in the inner sunset. and that's why i one of the reasons i was so interested in this report, and i learned a lot about my neighborhood as a result, i walk all over the neighborhood and i had seen many of the things that are in this. but bill has put them into a context that was very helpful to me in understanding my own neighborhood. and as a resident of the neighborhood. good. i'm also very hopeful that this will help us to maintain our sense of community, because the planning department has proposed raising the height limit on irving judah and parts of ninth avenue to eight stories, which will absolutely destroy this beautiful community. that's described so well in the

historic context statement. thank you. good afternoon, commissioners. my name is woody labounty. i'm the president and ceo of san francisco heritage. i also used to run an organization called the western neighborhoods project, and it was a nonprofit focused on the history of the west side of the history of the city, which we felt had a lot of resources and history that needed to be shared broader to a broader audience, with the parkside context statement, which i helped work on, and with the late mary brown's excellent residential builders context statement of the sunset district . this sort of completes, in my mind, an overview of analyzing how the sunset district developed, what it means to the city over its history, what it's contributed to the city in

communities and in architecture and i'm just very happy that this has finally happened. it's like a lot of these context statements. it's been a long time in the pipeline, so i just want to quickly remind you that context statements are not the definitive document. they are meant to be living documents. so this one can be added to and updated after it has been adopted, to reflect changing communities and businesses out there. but please, i recommend that you adopt it today. and thank you. thank you. hey there, i'm a believer in serendipity, and i'm actually here to speak on another matter later, but i ran into my old, old friend bill castera, whom i've known since 1977, was roommates with him in the inner sunset. back at that time. and i watched bill's interest in and knowledge of architectural history blossom at that time and turn it into a full time obsession that he made into an amazing career. and i

just wanted to endorse anything that he's involved in whatsoever. so we will note that . okay. last call for public comment on this matter. seeing none. public comment is closed. and this item is now before you. commissioners. thank you. commissioners. commissioner vergara, just excuse me. just like to thank. excuse me, mr. castera, for your your great work. you can tell every page the love that you have for your subject comes right through. so thank you very much. it's a wonderful, wonderful study. thank you. commissioner campbell , i echo that it's, for those that haven't had a chance to read it, it's over 250 pages long. it's very robust, i had one quick question. maybe this is a general question, knowing that this is part of a larger cultural resource survey, the document starts historically in the 1850s, and it starts with

sort of land grabs. right. and i wondered if this is a very minor question, but, you know, or minor detail, but do we add do we ever add out of respect, acknowledgment of tribal lands and the native american history aspect of, of the neighborhood? it's not a small question. it's a big one, but, i'm not an archeologist. i used to know some archeologists. i don't really know any archeologists who have worked in san francisco anyway. sure. so, but i've never heard, so i couldn't ask them anyone, but i've never heard of any, archeological findings for native americans in the sunset. much much, much less any historical references. okay so i left it out because i didn't know anything. police plus, the

only map of the existing, alamo villages that existed at the time of the spanish arrival shows none of them in this area. and there were no land grants in this area. it was all sand dunes. nobody wanted it. thank you. yeah. and i'll. i'll just address i just to ensure that, you know, we've appropriately documented our indigenous history, the department is working on a native american historic context statement. and then obviously, we also have a fairly robust archeological program. so anything that might have the potential to impact, native american resources or things that we might not see basically above ground, is covered through the department's standard practice and review. great. thank you. thank you, commissioner wright. yes, i just wanted to thank, mr. castera for

your, very thorough, work. i think it'll go a long way in helping, the city to identify historic resources. thank you. thank you, commissioner baldauf. i'm going to pile on with the. thanks, it is just a bravura piece of work. i mean, it's incredible. and a gift to all your neighbors and the rest of us residents of san francisco to have a document like this, i have one question, and i think it's great that this is a living document. i a little bit take issue with skirting ucsf's involvement in the neighborhood, which you describe at the beginning when you just, draw your map. i mean, the, the tract map, you know, that is on page

96, of, come clearly shows it as related to the neighborhood. and i've always thought of the neighborhood as being the university's neighborhood. and so i think there's an incredible risk relationship between the university and the city as a whole. but this neighborhood in particular, and i actually have very strong questions about how good a neighbor the university has been and is being from a historic preservation point of view. and i think to skirt their involvement is to actually open up the neighborhood to encroachment that destruction. and i think it's very important that you take on the university and its role in this neighborhood. so i it's certainly not going to get me to

vote against it, but i, i would like to hear your thoughts on it, because i think it parallels your chapter on the highways, which you didn't get to. so i'm going to give you that chance right now, because i think the warning that you actually show about how a neighbor could hood could have been destroyed, or radically altered, actually plays forward in what the university is doing right now. so this comment will be a little nerdy in my files at home. i have a big spread out map of san francisco showing the entire city that i got from the city itself, and i've drawn lines on it to say, you know, this block is this neighborhood and this. so every neighborhood i've defined according to my mind and so i had to deal with the

interface between ucsf and the inner sunset. so the big hospital buildings that ucsf, are on the south side of parnassus avenue and west, excuse me, east of arguello. clearly they're not in the inner sunset, but then ucsf spread into the inner sunset, knocked down a couple of blocks of buildings, purchased another block that they would have liked to have torn down. but they weren't allowed to. and so they still they still occupy a block of great old houses, and they own, but they're still there. so i just had to make a decision. you know, if they're old houses, even if their own owned by ucsf, ucsf, if they're in their sunset. but the big institutional buildings that were built outside, i just, you know, maybe it's a little arbitrary. and what neighborhood

did you put them in, to me, they're they're parnassus heights or. yeah or if it's on the north side of parnassus boulevard, that's lower parnassus heights. it's a little tiny neighborhood stretches from arguello to stanyan. and so, you know, i didn't want to go east. i did not want to go east of arguello, as far as what ucsf did to the inner sunset, that is a valid story. and i'm not disagreeing with you. it should have been in there. but as elena and bob will testify, i went really took this. took a long time. it's just also a time, a time factor to research that issue and write about it, i couldn't do it. just couldn't. sorry, no. well, thank you know, i as i think it was what he

said, it's a living document and hopefully it will be picked up. i guess i would submit just in sort of a different point of view, that the, site plan on page 96 puts the university right into this neighborhood. so parts of it. yes. yes. and so and sutro owned that land too. so, so this is just i'm having a fun intellectual discussion and i'll stop. my last plug is going to be for the group that publishes it. and i don't know whether the department can lend any help is you deserve a fabulous graphic designer. you have so much beautiful material. you don't have to do it. someone should do it for you. so thank you, and since someone mentioned the freeways, i sort of gives me an entree to hold this map up that we dodged this, terrible,

terrible event. there's the freeway that the freeway planners wanted to build through the inner sunset. they really were planning to do it. it would have wiped out. i mean, the irving street. thank you. right here. so i'm going to facing another freeway issue with the upzoning now. thank you, commissioner warren, as as mr. kostura alluded, i've known him for many years, and worked with him in the late 90s and appreciate his work. i know he's got a love for what he does and hearing from his other, colleague and roommate that he he does have that, true interest in the neighborhoods and what he studies in them, you know, i think with the inner sunset, which i go to every weekend, i

it is like many san francisco neighborhoods where it's a small town within a big city, with small scale buildings that have elements, as mr. kostura had mentioned. and mr. cherny, that, speak to the human scale, and i think that's something, that all of these, documents that we produce, you know, for the city, are, are speaking to, the value of them and, obviously the big interest in the housing element and the upscaling of, of these areas, and i, i, i commend commissioner baldauf and his comments on, ucsf and the encroachment into the inner sunset, because i think it speaks to what mr. castro was

also alluding to in terms of height and mr. cherny, that, we need to, you know, elaborate on things that do affect these neighborhoods in the past where, where, you know, history is about learning from the past and what is done in these places. and, you know, the image of the freeway, through through what could have been the freeway in the inner sunset is striking, and, you know, again, i, i'm often surprised that people don't come to the housing element or to the, to the, to the hearings that affect our city in a grander scale. not in a small scale, but a huge scale. it's a shocker to not have people come out for those things at when they occur. and then after the fact, there's a lot of

scrambling. so i encourage people to do that, to come and to speak to these issues. because they will affect our city for decades, if not the next century. so it's important to learn from these documents that are written. and i appreciated mr. castro's analysis of the area from rural, suburban to urban, because that is, you know, the progression of what our city, how it developed, and, and understanding that development, we're into another era of development that will come. and so we need to understand the past to be able to assess what we're going to be doing. and i just wanted to say, you know, i appreciate the document and i am in support of it. thank you. thank you, commissioner wright. yeah, i would just like to add to, what

commissioners baldauf and nageswaran are saying, and maybe a point of, discussion or at least a point to think about, and that, i think it's important to acknowledge maybe original boundaries of the neighborhood and, but, in terms of a context statement, there's nothing historic left and some and most of, really as it relates to the sunset, the inner sunset district. right, except for maybe the one block of houses that you were just describing, but i do agree that this story should be told, even if it acknowledges, that things have been lost, it. thank you, i just also want to echo the

commissioner's appreciation to you, mr. koester, this is a great deal of research that has gone into this project, and we could tell that that it was definitely a labor of love for you to complete this. and i think that your research in particular, is going to be very beneficial to the citywide survey. is that correct? mr. sucrée, i think all of the research that you have done and have provided for the planning department will really help us to further expedite that particular area of san francisco . so we really, really thank you for doing that. and i really appreciate your honest analysis and your honest feedback about about how you researched and viewed particular areas of history, how you clearly point out that certain communities of color were not included in surveys. and i think that's also very important to point out, because very rarely do we see people who write about historic

context statements really clearly stating that. and i really like the fact that you focused in on the churches. i mean, there's a ton of churches in this particular area. and, you know, it goes to show who lived in that neighborhood and as well as the civic building. so i, i thank you for all of your hard work. and i will be joining my commissioners and supporting this, commissioner baldauf, did you have additional comments? i had one question, because at the back of the copy of my document, there is, a sort of series of projects that say that this would be an eligible building and this wouldn't be an eligible building, but i don't think that's part of the document that you wrote. and so i think it's been amended by the department or something. and i guess i'm a little confused as to what we're approving and voting on. maybe miss moore can clarify that for us. alaina

moore, planning staff. yes that's the evaluative framework that you're referring to. and we include that at the end of the document as kind of a reference that people on the citywide survey team can use, or planners that are, reviewing the historic potential of properties, yeah. so it's a reference kind of an addendum to the document prepared by the department, not by william kostura. yeah. and i'll just add that this is pretty standard practice for all of our historic context statements. it's basically a methodology. it's basically the difference between a history of a site or a neighborhood versus a historic context statement. so ideally, what the context statement does is provide guidance for how to assess a property for future. so in this case, mr. castoro is able to give a great history of the neighborhood. and then we help supplement some of his work with the framework for how to evaluate it for its historic status. and i guess i would just

ask that a page be put on top of this that explains that it was produced by the department, and not because i heard him say i didn't do any of that kind of evaluation. i have opinions and i don't know whether he participated in the opinions about the, the evaluations that you present. yeah, i can we can add in kind of a divider page before we publish the official version. and yeah, the evaluative framework was sent to william kusterer to review as well, just to make sure that it, you know, reflected the, the work that was put into the document. thank you. what? i haven't seen. oh, okay. thank you, thank you. motion to approve. second. thank you. commissioner if there's nothing further, there is a motion to adopt the historic context statement on that motion. commissioner baldauf i,

commissioner campbell. yes. commissioner vergara. yes, commissioner. right. yes. commissioner. foley i. commissioner warren. yes. and commissioner. president. matsuda. yes. so move. commissioners. that motion passes unanimously. 7 to 0 and will place us on item six for case number 2023, hyphen 011738ds for the gregangelo museum at 225 san leandro way. this is a landmark designation. hi. good afternoon commissioners. thank you all for being here. my name is emma hyken and i am a legislative aide for supervisor myrna melgar of district seven, i'm here on behalf of supervisor melgar to present the landmarking designation for the gregangelo and velocity art and entertainment, which we will be referring to as the gregangelo museum, which is located at 225 san leandro way in san francisco, san francisco is a

city of artists and creators and queer joy, and no other institution better exemplifies these facets than the gregangelo museum. over the past 40 years, gregangelo herrera has been has created an invaluable arts community that is painstakingly works to embellish the granular museum with wonder. behind every cabinet, there's a new curiosity . within every drawer, there is a new mystery. the gregangelo museum is an entertainment hub on the west side of san francisco, offering entertainment for people of all ages. the gregangelo museum welcomes san franciscans to explore their curious side. not only does the gregangelo museum offer tours and exhibits, they also provide invaluable resources to artists from across the bay area. in a city where it's difficult to afford being any profession, being an artist is especially challenging and

gregangelo takes the weight off of the shoulders of many of the artists of our city, from employment opportunities to classes and workshops, the gregangelo museum makes invaluable contributions to our artist community in san francisco every single day, and i'm here to say, on behalf of supervisor myrna melgar, that it is well worthy of a landmark designation from the city and county of san francisco. and with that, i'm going to hand it off to the planning department, who has prepared a packet that i'm sure you've all reviewed, i will remain on hand to answer any questions, but take it away. can i get the thank you.

okay. thank you. good afternoon, commissioners. heather samuels, planning staff. before you today is consideration of recommendation for landmark designation of the gregangelo museum, located at 225 san leandro way, within the larger west of twin peaks neighborhood. on october 17th. supervisor melgaard introduced a proposed resolution to initiate this landmark designation. file number 231091. both the land use committee on december 4th and the full board on december 12th of 2023, voted unanimously to recommend and approve the resolution. the gregangelo museum, within a residential home that it was originally constructed in 1920, in the balboa terrace neighborhood, has

operated since 1989 by owner and artist gregangelo herrera, who is an acclaimed queer artist of half lebanese and half mexican descent. the gregangelo museum is eligible for local designation for its cultural association of san francisco's 1960s. 70s and 80s lgbt, q plus and counterculture communities evoked through its san francisco inspired folk art environment. the gregangelo museum also possesses high artistic value as an immersive visual performance and circus arts environment in a restored mediterranean revival style house. the interior and exterior of the building has been adorned with installations by gregangelo and many artists who flock to this cultural hub, becoming a living folk art environment that has intertwined art history and hope, contributing to the unique arts and culture of san francisco. the department believes that the gregangelo museum meet established eligibility requirements and landmark status

is warranted. although altered, the gregangelo museum maintains integrity to convey its artistic and cultural significance, as it is an active art installation and work in progress, it will continue to change and evolve without affecting overall integrity. character defining features representative of the significance have been included in the draft ordinance in your packets. to continue to continue tours and performances following the landmark designation, the property owner is intending to obtain a conditional use authorization to authorize a general entertainment use pending the completion of this landmark designation pursuant to planning code section 186.3, which allows for nonresidential uses in landmark buildings in rh districts. to date, the department has received 320 public comments in support and has received nine public comments in opposition, which

includes opposition from the balboa terrace homes association . the department recommends that hpc approve the recommendation for landmark designation, which will be forwarded to the board of supervisors. this concludes my presentation. i'll be available to answer any questions. thank you, thank you, thank you. with that, we should take public comment. members of the public, this is your opportunity to address the commission on this item. need to line up on the screen side of the room or to your right and through the chair. you'll each receive two minutes, two minutes, two minutes, two minutes. so that's a letter that i had delivered. here's a copy of my presentation. go ahead sir. is this advance? oh how do i get there? where is it?

okay. how does this show up on the screen? there we go. all right. okay. my name is robert mann. i'm from the balboa terrace homes association. and for all the gregangelo lovers in the room, i just want to make sure, you know, my mom was a painter. is a painter. my dad, composer, my brother, a composer, my sister, an artist. my husband, an artist. and i have great reverence for art and all the artists that have come here today to support this. what i want to talk about, though, is a problem for historic preservation and i don't really need to go through. okay, all my slides here and there, some of them are hidden, but the core problems that we see are that balboa terrace has worked for over 100 years to maintain the open vistas in balboa terrace, the park like setting. we've also been very supportive of

greg angelo's business. until covid and when covid occurred, the business started to move outside and the neighbors tolerated it. during that period, because of covid. sorry, i'm a little slow moving this around here. how do i advance this here. oh, there we go. so this is this is the street where greg angelo's facility is now. and you notice the wide open vistas. and this is part of the resident park nature of balboa terrace, which is cited in the historic context statement for the area. this is this is the street in 2015. and you notice there was no construction in front of the circled property, which is the greg angelo property. this is the property up close as it was then. and in

2022, construction started in the front setback, which is prohibited by city guidelines, prohibited by terrace architectural guidelines. thank you sir. that is your time. let me just end, sir. that is your time. yeah. these are the. take the next caller. next next speaker, please. thank you very much. thank you. thank you. sir. we do have this. thank you. and my husband and i live directly across from the property and have done so for the past eight years. we bought the house for my great aunt who lived there for 49 years. so the house and the neighborhood have been in my family for 57 years. and its historic character is deeply personal to me. i have submitted written comments. i would ask this commission, particularly as it hears from other commenters today. please

keep in mind the critical distinction between a long standing, noncommercial use of the property versus a very, very recent commercialization that has caused a nuisance on the neighbors. the landmark application as a staff person just reported, makes clear that this proceeding is only a stepping stone toward a conditional use authorization for the operation of a commercial business in a residential neighborhood. the report did not examine what the business has done to affected neighbors. here here are lines and crowds of customers gathering outside of 225 san leandro way customers. on both sides of the street. in long lines. and even being dropped off by party busses. the customers can be loud. drop trash on neighbor's lawns, and

are greeted loudly by costumed employees as this did not happen prior to 2020, the notion that this operation of the business as historical is simply false. the changes, such as the surrealistic sculpture and the gate, as well as the amphitheater, which is just ten feet back from the street where customers are greeted. all of that is two years old. it's not historic, and it poses a nuisance on the neighborhood, finally, i'd like to point out the sign at the front because this captures the distinction. this sign says, wait here on the sidewalk. do not enter the property. historically, his guests were welcome and known to him. these are simply paying customers. thank you. good afternoon, commissioners.

my name is arlene doyle and i'm a resident of balboa terrace. when each owner purchased their home in balboa terrace, we were made aware of the fact that our property was part of the balboa terrace homes association. with conditions, covenants and restrictions that apply to all homes in the neighborhood. these ccnr's are the foundation for ensuring that everyone in balboa terrace benefits from maintaining their property and preserving the character of the neighborhood. in support of this application, mr. herrera has submitted 155 communications in favor of the application, many of which were solicited by him on a facebook post, with only two in opposition. none of the documents supporting this motion have been submitted by neighbors, because none of the neighbors who will be most heavily impacted by this business were ever advised that this application was being submitted. the lack of opposition is something that has

been intentionally created by mr. herrera in failing to notify residents of balboa terrace of this plan, mr. herrera sent out email information to some of the neighborhood. excuse me, indicating that all operations at this artist collective would remain as they have over the decades. but then a few days later, revealed that he had filed the conditional use permit to change the use from residential use to allow entertainment and outdoor use. while mr. herrera is requesting support of his efforts to increase his commercial footprint in our neighborhood, to do so would open the floodgates to venues in balboa terrace that would change the character and quality of the area. thank you. thank you. good afternoon, commissioners. my name is elizabeth kechichian and i am a homeowner and resident of balboa terrace. as some of my

former neighbors or my neighbors just explained, balboa terrace is a residential park neighborhood. it has a historic a designation. if this commission wants to preserve the historic nature of neighborhoods in san francisco, which are dwindling because of continued development, then it needs to deny this application for landmark designation. this has not been operated as a circus for four decades. it's been since the pandemic and all of us who drive through the neighborhood have seen and been impacted by the traffic. both foot traffic and automobile traffic. people lingering on the street, trash, etc. it's also impacting the easement, which we pay for not the city we pay for the easements. this is going to adversely impact the character of our neighborhood and it seems to me this is completely contrary to the whole point of

having a historic commission. this is not a landmark. it has not been operated for 40 years. mr. herrera moved into the house in 1979 when his parents purchased it, and he was 13 years old. his business applications or his business licenses show that the earliest he began operating a business using 2 to 5 san leandro as his business address was in 2008. that's not even 20 years. this is not a historic. we're not denying that. perhaps the building could be historic, but the circus does not warrant a landmark designation. as one of my colleagues explained, a few approve this as a designation. landmark designation is going to lead to the expansion of the business, which is in contravention of the zoning as well as our ccnr's, which are recorded against the property. it will lead to expanded business operations by mr. gregangelo herrera, and it will lead to other neighbors trying to get away with the same thing and ruin the character of our neighborhood. both historically

as well as a single family residential neighborhood. thank you. thank you. there is no history or culture without shared stories and connection. then my name is sarai zagorsky. i'm a emergency dispatcher and crisis negotiator. i spend my days in service to others, and i experience complex and repeated trauma as a result, as do many others in various professions. on the night of october 1st, 2017, i worked through the night assisting victims in the deadliest mass shooting in american history. and i can tell you exactly what a revolver sounds like when it grinds against someone's teeth before they take their life. i give life saving aid and vulnerable solace to people just like you, who woke up today not knowing they might live their worst nightmare. it is easy to lose one's creative side when overwhelmed by such things. ironically, it is also through creative processes that we often

heal in a world where it is so easy to lose ourselves, our creative wonder and our connection with others. the gregangelo museum has made a lifelong commitment to helping us hold on to those values. i'm unaware of any other place which can so drastically change the course of one's life in a couple of hours. historically what do we value? we value community. we value each other. from what i gather in these comments today that you've all made, that's the value in what we're trying to preserve. so i'm here to just ask you that you give this place and these people the landmark designation that they deserve. and if negotiations need to be made with the residents or conditions, i think that's a fair statement to make. it sounds like they have valid concerns, but i think it's an important piece of history and culture again, because without shared stories and connection,

there is no history or culture. thank you. thank you. hi, my name is nick brentley. i'm a working artist in san francisco, and i've been at the gregangelo museum for five years. i'm also the tour manager. you saw my photo? i'm one of those images. and so every week i get to host around 40 guests who show up to the museum for one of several experiences that we offer. and when they show up to the property, i always ask them the same two questions one. how did you find out about this place? and they often say, oh, i was looking for something fun to do, something interesting, something different, something off the beaten path, and then question two what do you know about this place? and the most common answer is nothing. i know nothing. and so they show up with a curiosity and an openness to uncertainty, the unknown and then around 90 minutes later,

they leave with inspiration and gratitude for what happened in between. when they leave, inspired to live life differently, to live more fully, to be a better parent, to be a better friend, to go marry that person they love or start a business. they leave with gratitude for the invitation to be present with their lives, to enjoy something with people that they love, separate from screens and devices that keep us all distracted from living our lives. a lot of people describe their visit as being therapeutic, and i said this during the last hearing that none of us here are therapists. we never claim that, but people find it to be a healing place. and that's because art has a way of enabling us to process our lives in an accessible way. no place does that. thank you. thank you. good afternoon,

commissioners, my name is yousef kazerooni and i am a user experience designer at a bank. and i was born in iran. however, i've called san francisco home for the past 16 years, and i've been in inner sunset for the past four years. almost i was at a gregangelo. i was at greg angelo's a few months ago for the very first time, and i had the opportunity city to meet talented artists. we played music, we shared stories, and all in a low key atmosphere. i was thrilled to find this unique space where artists can come together, and i was pleasantly surprised that a space of such caliber was only one bus ride

away from where i lived. and i'm here today because i'm grateful to greg's work and i hope that the city, my city will lend its support to honor his work and preserve this unique space so that more city residents can enrich their lives within the bounds of our city. thank you. thank you, commissioners, and i wanted to acknowledge the folks in opposition to greg angelo's, to all of this. and it sounds i'm hearing a need for peace and security in their neighborhood. and i value that as well, and i think it's really important that we find some common ground. i

also see a need in the city. i grew up here. i'm zack matheson, i'm a community organizer. i create neighborhood adventure games to revitalize iconic neighborhoods in san francisco. and i grew up here and, i see from, like, boots on the ground experience going door to door to businesses and, that there's a need for covid decimated our structures for connection and community and there's a deep need for, for building those structures back up again in san francisco, and i have never encountered i've traveled all over the world. i've never encountered a person such as greg angelo, or his team or the experience that they create, that facilitate. it's this beautiful marriage between, historic education, and commercial city engagement. and,

like, personal existential exploration in a 90 minute walk through a person's house, it's unbelievable. so i have faith, i guess, that, both of these things can, can happen. the community can find peace. and that greg angelo's can be sort of protected because san francisco would not be san francisco without greg angelo and his house and his team. thank you. thank you. good afternoon, commissioners. it's a pleasure to be before you. my name is trey allen and i am co-chair of the planning department's lgbtq cultural heritage strategy. i'm. maybe you've heard of it. you can see it on the planning department's website. this this site and this activity is exactly what we aim to preserve and promote as part of the mission of the cultural heritage strategy, we've seen a loss of queer businesses and

spaces, and it's important that the commission support this in order to preserve and promote greg angelo's family friendly music, you know, whether it's fear driven or hate, we've seen attacks on the lgbtq community around the country, from drag queen bans to the don't say gay bill in in florida, and each effort seeks to silence the voices of queer people and to force our arts back into the closet. not that i think that that's what we're doing here, but i think, you know, i've been to greg angelo's family friendly museum, and numerous times and even held a small, intimate event there myself. the experience led us through the immaculate and floor to ceiling decorated house. but more importantly, our guides led us through an introspective journey of our own lives from birth, life and death. it compelled us to look deeper into our hearts

and to love our neighbors with unbounded grace. and if there's anything we need more of, it's more love, and unbounded grace. thank you. thank you. hello. thank you. commissioners, my name is cecilia sontag, and i am an arts professional, a theater artist here in san francisco. i am employed full time in performing arts and immersive events. i work at boxcar theater in north beach, and greg angelo was my mentor. starting in 2007, i learned how to be an arts professional, how to work in events, and also how to provide intimate, immersive experiences for individuals. and from that training, which was a solid decade, working with greg angelo through 2017, when i became a full time, stay at home mom, which is another privilege, he taught me. he taught me the skill set that was needed to

become a full time professional, during the pandemic, he continued to provide opportunities for artists to make art. there was not a you know, a financial incentive, but an opportunity to continue to work in a time where many artists were shifting careers, migrating out of san francisco, a majority of my colleagues have actually left the bay area, and the talent pool is thin. and greg angelo continues to provide opportunities, yes. that's all i have to say. thank you. thank you. hello, commissioners. my name is lisa napoli and i'm a co-founder of the friends of lakeside village, also a 25 year member of saint francis episcopal, which is located in balboa terrace and i just would like to be here to comment on greg angelo as a neighbor and a

community minded person, my experience with him has been based in multiple roles. he has brought, to our public space. we activated what was formerly a parking lot and turned it into a town square. and greg angelo has brought together people from all kinds of walks of life at that town square through his entertaining, bringing more families to our neighborhood, which is what we're trying to do to make our business corridor there more vibrant and beautiful . so he's had an enormous role in that. the other thing is, with our church, he's, because as a neighbor, he's come in and helped us to raise funds with our own parish and our public, to support what is almost a 100 year old church, so i just that museum is a place for new ideas and for people. he is the ultimate connector. i guess

that's really my point. and i encourage you to give him landmark status for the good work he's doing there. thank you. thank you. hello my name is michelle musser. because of the support from the greg angelo museum, i was able to create a beautiful and thoughtful show called the enchanted fairy garden. this show is designed to bring families together. this adventure begins when i meet a family outside with my magical companion, marilyn the mouse. everyone, including the mom and dad, are turned into fairies, and they even create new names for themselves, with merlin and i as their guides, we travel through different fairy realms where something magical happens and the families learn things about one another. they didn't know before. even the parents learn new things about each other. on several shows, the mom and dad have turned to one

another and have said, wow, i never knew that about you. at the end of the show, marilyn the mouse asks the family what they love most about one another. sometimes it's so moving that i have to give them tissues. recently, i had a daughter tell her father that she loved him because she thought he was funny and fun, and the father told his daughter, i love you because i think you're smart, beautiful, and you laugh at all my jokes. the enchanted fairy garden show is a treasure and a gift to san francisco. moreover, this shows that greg angelo and his museum is not motivated by profit by but by human connection. thank you. hi. good afternoon. thank you. my name is laney monsef and i first came across greg angelo in his house professionally about 13, 15 years ago, probably

more. but before i say anything else, i just want to say, and i've said it a million times, i moved to san francisco from kentucky, in 1977, and i am saddened by all the loss of soul over the years. and i just think the greg angelo museum was 1,000% epitomizes what i know we all love most about this city. and i don't know how many of you all have been in there, but if you haven't, i don't know. there's different definitions of historic, but that place took decades to be what it is now, and you would feel that in your soul. the second you walked in. i took my great niece on a tour there maybe 12 years ago. she's 22 now. more than that, probably 13 years ago, and she's still talking about it. and that was then. and it's come so far. and honestly, i hear what the neighbors are saying. and i mean, i would be i love being a next door neighbor to the greg angelo museum. i'd be honored to

be on that street. but i hear that. but i also believe in my heart because i know him pretty well. i've been there a lot. he will work with you. he will work with anybody, everybody. that is what he's about. and by the way, i also want to say for all the times i've been there working on projects, i'm fascinated and amazed by all the artists i meet who quickly and easily describe how they would never have such working opportunities for their arts all kinds of arts, their theater arts, their visual arts, their building arts. it's amazing. i don't even know how many of you have been there, but you need to. and if you see that, you realize what greg angelo has provided for decades. and i hear this historic part and everything, but he has worked on that house for decades. and that house, you just need to go. but to me, this is exactly the kind of designation that should be recognized by the city of san francisco, and i encourage you to do so. thank you so much. thank you. good afternoon,

commissioners. richard carrillo i'm the legacy business program manager for the office of small business. i am speaking to you today as a city employee, not as a resident, i'm pleased to announce that greg angelo museum has applied for the legacy business registry. that was back in september, their application is complete and their application is the reason why this item is before you today, it's presently on hold, and, we are waiting for this to work through the process. we wanted to make sure we do everything above board. so, that is why it's here today. i'm excited to, to go forward with the application. should this pass, speaking as a city employee, i have to be mindful about what i can say in terms of advocating for projects, but what i can say is i have, reviewed about 500 legacy business registry applications over the last eight

years that i've been managing the program. they're all pretty amazing in their own way. but every once in a blue moon, there's an application that really just makes me say, wow, this is amazing. this is what san francisco's all about. and gregangelo museum was one of those applications, and it just was thrilled, with everything about the business and everything about their application and it was a real pleasure to work on, and it was a real pleasure to work with greg angelo and his employees. so i just, looking forward to bringing that before you, when this process hopefully works in their favor. i just wanted to say also that he they attend our heritage happy hours. so we get about 8 or 9 people at our monthly heritage happy hour that we co-host with sf heritage, and it's always a pleasure to see them there. thank you so much. thank you. hello, my name is giuliano, san francisco king

carnival actor, dancer, performer and it's been really sad to see many places in the city to shut down and many artists to move out. since pandemic, and maybe a little before being in this situation, having a place where we all can be or bring our art and make the city alive and make tourists to come and see us. we depends of tourism and we are basically live for this city and if we shut down this place, it's going to be not just sad for the artists, but also for hundreds of who knows so many people that come to the city that we provide that sometimes we also do free shows on the street. we play, we play drums and we bring costumes , and you have no idea how much happiness we bring to the community, to the tourists. and it's very important to keep this place alive. and we all need your help. thank you so much. thank you. good afternoon, my

name is roman john dosa, and i'm one of the many artists, that can give thanks to greg angelo for mentorship, i was an artist in residence for two years before the pandemic, and i'm here today because i could still consider him a friend, and a and a colleague and a mentor, and the thing that i really wanted to share, was i stumbled on this place by very much accident, and the, you know, the gaudiness of the place, the art that is created. you've seen some of the pictures and maybe some of you have been there. that, that first, you know, shock of seeing that beautiful art, kind of pales in comparison to a little bit of a catalyst that it is for the connection to conversation, the thing that it speaks to a particular history, in a particular room in a particular part of the world, and then in a different room, a different part of the world that brings out history of people's families, of people's, you know, personal

histories and where they've been. and it really, you know, as much beauty visually as it is that goes so much deeper than than what you see on the walls and what is organically growing. because every person that does come through there, leaves something behind as well. they pick something up, they leave something behind. and that's and that's true for all the events that we've done in, in the city itself, all over the bay, and, and there's a reason that people keep coming back. there's a people that reason people keep flocking to this, to this place. and there's a reason that so many people of us showed up today, to pay our respects for this and to advocate that this place be protected. so thank you very much. thank you. hello. thank you, my name is ian frittata. i've been working at the gregangelo company for almost two decades now, and. and in that time, i've seen a tremendous amount of bonds between people who have

experiences there. i'd like you to take a moment and look around at all the ornateness in the in the woodwork here, and i'd like to use that as somewhat of a literal. and, and an anecdotal kind of method for the bonds, the type of, flourishes that the museum has provided, the connections with different people. i do understand the concerns that some of the residents have, and they're very valid. and i hope that that some kind of, negotiation can happen. however i do want to suggest that, the work done in the museum. is, is not just a one for one. there are there are

countless countless days, hours, weeks, months, years of many people working on different installations in the building and it's not just the building, though. it's also the community. and that's what i'd like to have you think about as preserving this space. thank you. thank you . good afternoon, commissioners. my name is miguel gaucho. i'm a plumbing contractor, and i'm so amazed about greg angelo's, what they do, how they how how well they are organized. i've been i had worked. i mean, i don't know anything about arts or anything, but i have been involved in 1980 with the mission district and also i, my country, too. and i'm so, so amazed that how the how well they are organized all the

time. i've been there to that to that place. they're so organized , so clean outside, which they say people, they cleaning the streets with no litter. i put a choir from mexico. we went to sing there very quiet. so everything was so organized. they are so organized that you can believe that. so i wish, you know, you can, approve what he's asking for. okay. thank you. thank you. hi. my name is jeanette conley. i'm an rn. i used to work at san francisco general hospital in the psychiatric department, and i'm very good friends with miguel, who is just here. he introduced me to the greg angelo museum on a halloween night, which, if you have been anywhere near that neighborhood on halloween, the entire streets for blocks around

his house and many other houses, all have people all on the streets and kids come from all different neighborhoods. it is a crazy scene, but i was just blown away by the inside of his house and the connections that i've made since then. i had my birthday party there and my friends and neighbors all went and they enjoyed it immensely and were still talking about it, this house means a lot to me and my friends. and you need to keep it. thank you. thank you. good afternoon. my name is douglas. i'm a mosaic artist and a refugee from haiti. and the

angelo museum, a safe place for me to work and create with other artists. and contribute to the culture of san francisco. thank you. thank you. hi. my name is aisha locke. i'm a co-founder of a fabulous tea and co-creator of the tea experiences at greg angelo museum. we bring experience to many different companies and university, and this is the only place that i saw that everybody coming to have a conversation with every single piece of art that created by all these amazing artists at the museum, people started to

awaken their voice, started to share their true feelings and many tears. even kids started to smile because they said it's okay. i came just like me, not like the rest of my classmates. they feel safe to finally speak to their adults before there wasn't been able to. and without greg angelo open his space to encourage all of us coming from different parts of the world. i won't be able to stand here to share with you to create a company, to bring all this healing ceremony to even stanford, to kaiser, to berkeley. that is because of greg angelo, his inspiration on all his artistic themes, a hero, a historical building not limited just by a structure. and this place is a true historical

landmark of our humanity. that is, remind every piece of the spirit that as a human being, with heart, with new hope, is still exist, and we can still create and co-create together for a better tomorrow. thank you. thank you. good afternoon commissioners. my name is kai kenichi, co-founder of fabula tea and also the co-creator of the tea in wonderland experience in the greg angelo museum. so when i first started the company, i was in a very, very depressed state, actually. i was like, not sure about what i want to do with my life. i was not sure about how to run a business, but when i stepped into the greg angelo museum, i was welcomed with open arms and despite me not sure about what i'm doing, greg was so open to

supporting, mentoring and working together with me. and without that place, i wouldn't have been able to thrive, not just as an artist, but as a person. and now that i'm able to create an immersive experience in a museum, now i feel like i'm paying it forward. and the greg angelo museum, to me, is not just a place to entertain or to make people gaps. as at the arts , but it's a place that really, truly heals. i hope you give it a landmark status. thank you. thank you. hello, my name is angelica reina. i am from colombia and i moved to california seven years ago. during the pandemic. i was studying marketing and i applied for internships in different companies. however, none of these companies gave me the opportunity. the gregangelo

museum was the only company that opens its doors. i think that the reasons were that i am a young professional from another country. i am a woman and i didn't have enough experience, so i'm thankful for gregangelo. until this day i have learned new skills. i improve my english, and i'm now the artist manager. although i moved from my country, i feel welcome at gregangelo museum. it's a second home for me. the museum needs to be recognized because minorities like me and artists can work, collaborate and be together. so this is a big contribution to san francisco. thank you. thank you. good afternoon. my name is lucille guillen. i live at 245 san leandro way, only two houses away from greg angelo. i wish to

speak in support of landmark status for greg angelo's home. i have lived in my house for 54 years. and remember when greg and his family moved in. i have watched the remarkable transformation of his home into a work of art. greg angelo is a distinguished graduate of the california college of the arts and the proprietor of the villa city circus. he has generously, generously had members of his troupe perform at our neighborhood block parties, catered halloween parties, and opened his home to neighbors, friends and seekers of art and the unusual. 225 san leandro way is truly a work of imagination and a museum unto itself. it beckons the casual walker to stop and stare in wonder. in a

city that is famous for its serendipity encounters, this art exhibit adds to the free spirit of a city known for its beauty and charm. thank you, thank you. good afternoon, commissioners. my name is yuko terasawa. i live actually immediately to the left at two 235 san leandro. i'm a neighbor. i've been a neighbor for over 14 years. i've as a family, we've raised two children from toddler age to now. high school age, and with my husband. so i, i completely support the landmark designation. i feel that my children have grown grown in a public school system. see the cultural diversity. see, greg and his artists are amazing and

very thoughtful, i, i really i actually work from home, i have my own startups, and i work from home, and i'm never bothered. they're very respectful that. i feel that greg really, tries to bring the community together here in addition to, really accepting, artists, very inclusive. and i see that it's like a family gathering. it's a family, that he built in his, in support of artists. so i completely support it. and as a neighbor, really, it's kept immaculately clean. i have no problems. and they're very respectful. so i support landmark designation and support greg to continue his art museum. thank you.

thank you. commissioners. so my artist name is leilani kalia and galluccio, i came up to the bay area 20 years ago from los angeles area family of, real estate people and architects and , and i did a lot of traveling growing up as well, and i'm the, like, the artsy one in the family, right, of all the business people. so kind of came up here to also research more of my artist self, and after 20 years and i had a daughter who also grew up, but i feel like i finally have found sort of a home. and i just got to the gregangelo museum in person in december, and they've been so welcoming and really acknowledging my artist self.

and, at the same time, my family had done an intervention and i had recently gotten, my real estate license. so i've been going to open houses and, you know, and looking at things from that side of, of the, the picture and nowhere have i found, you know, a place so like, magical. it's like, you know how sometimes just the power pack things come in those little smaller packages, you know, but it's amazing what they have created with like, the enchanted gardens. and it's just this crossroads of connection and it's not, you know, i, san francisco can sometimes have, a reputation for being kind of a party aholic thing with the capital art, but there are like there are very serious artists there, and they really are, are all about connecting the internal and external dialog and, celebrating what it is to

be human and to be artists and what that means or doesn't mean. and i know that they're trying to be conscientious of communities and i'm. yeah i've, i understand some of the, the neighborhood, concerns. thank you. ma'am. that is your time. thank you. all right. thank you. hi there. good afternoon. my name is gigi. my working name was subaru. gigi. and i met greg angelo back in the 90s at a corporate event. i was a blue goddess. he was a pharaoh. we became friends, but i wanted to say i moved here from new york back in 1992. i was a super broke college student, but i was really looking to live at a place where i could feel free and become a working artist, which somehow i did. i and i developed a lot of my characters back in the 90s, there was a

party scene called the anon salon, and it was over on howard and ninth. and at this anon salon, we could come together and workshop different characters and maybe we'd get paid like 25 bucks. the reason why i bring that up is that greg is like an anon salon, but like the anon salon, if it was decorated by the people from neiman marcus, i mean his place is done. it's very unique, but it's done very tastefully. we're not talking about a bunch of, pink flamingos stuck on a stick in a in a yard. i mean, everything he does is has elegance and class, even when it's unique, greg is a virgo, so there's no garbage. there's never been garbage. i've been to his house a million times. i've never seen huge crowds of people. yes, maybe on halloween, but that's a holiday. but he just keeps it very neat. and i hope that, we could all find some peace together within the

neighborhood. and, you know, i understand with hoa. and thank you for your time, but i hope we get designated as a historical place. have a good day. thank you. hello. my name is. i'm originally from mongolia. i met with greg for the first time 2001. by the time i met with him, i didn't speak any english. and ever since i've been working with him closely and i have one child who's a 14 year old who sees me every time i wake up and go to work, he said. always says , i want to one day get a job like you, like your job. and truly my son's favorite place. and 23 years. he's my mentor. he was my family. he was a friend who teach me all kinds of art style, way learned training me, when i didn't believe in myself. now i'm the makeup costume. like

anything i can hand on, he will train me. that's how i stayed full time artist. and i really, really think the young generation needed this place that they have hope for. they can be successful artist. thank you. thank you. good afternoon, commissioners. my name is liza. emily and i moved to san francisco 15 years ago from the east coast. i was drawn to the city by its rich artistic history and a culture of connection and belonging. trained as a scientist but wanting to break free of working in a lab, i pursued artistic paths and found the gregangelo museum, where i work as a soloist, costume maker and co-creator. the gregangelo museum is a place where artists from around the country and around the globe meet, collaborate, grow and share together, we create fanciful, imaginative environments to encourage both visitors and sf locals to share stories and

dreams. the gregangelo museum brings magic to san francisco and i ask the city support it as a historic landmark. thank you for listening and thank you for the work that you do to preserve the magic of our city. thank you . hello, my name is zoe shelledy. i am a, an intern at greg angelo's museum. i am also a student at the university of san francisco studying philosophy. i moved here three years ago with the hopes of and sparkle in my eyes, of finding the magic of san francisco. the art of san francisco. that would influence something great in me. and when i first moved here, i was not able to find it as quickly as possible until i found greg angelo's museum. and this museum does not just bring a community of people from all around the world to san francisco, but it also brings the community within san francisco, local and not to

enjoy and to enjoy the culture and history of the of san francisco and i'm really grateful to be a part of it. and i really hope more people my age are able to experience these parts of san francisco, because the arts are so important to us. thank you so much. thank you. good afternoon, my name is christine. christine. i am the archivist and the art collection curator for the burning man project. i've known greg angelo for years. i'm also. i'm also a published writer. i write articles for raw vision, which is the world's leading quarterly on outsider art and folk art sites. i've traveled in 50 countries, been in the peace corps twice. i've seen outsider art sites all over the planet. angelo's museum is one of the most fabulous i've ever seen. i'll be working on a piece about it for raw vision soon, and i encourage you to preserve this for the city of san francisco.

we are extremely lucky to have greg angelo and his museum here. it's an incredible site, and i'd like to briefly address a few complaints that were made by the first two people who talked about how it impacts their life in that neighborhood. and i go to greg angelo's for his thursday lunches, which are one of the biggest things he does. there is plenty of parking there , talking about it like it's a nightclub or something. he puts on very small events, plenty of parking. there's no amplified sound, there's nothing outside. it's all done inside the house for very small groups of people. i was told that the reason that this whole case was brought against the museum was that the neighbors across the street said they just want to live somewhere normal. i would ask them, then, why are you living in san francisco? normal doesn't get attention. normal is not a fabulous, creative, incredible structure built by greg angelo and many artists. and as i mentioned, we would be lucky to have this preserve for our city. it's amazing. thank you. thank you. good afternoon,

commissioners. my name is suzanne pampanin. i'm here to speak briefly in support of making the greg angelo museum a historical designation, i've known greg angelo since the 80s. actually, i'm. i was born and raised in san francisco, and greg angelo and i were friends since then. i watched him transform the house into what it is today. little by little, as he went through art school. i'm also an artist. i'm a musician, actually, and not everyone has the ability and the belief in themself to be able to live their dream. what greg has done man, it blows my mind. i took on a day job and i'll say i'm proud that i did, but what inspires so many people in life is cultural,

real, actual, sexual diversity. that's what san francisco stands for. and in my day job, what i see as san francisco changing. it's not what it used to be. i've watched the city change in a way, some some ways are great, and some ways maybe not so great . but what this museum brings to san francisco, if we can keep it the way it is, he gives jobs to artists. he gives jobs to musicians. he gives jobs to performers that might not have those opportunities. people that are helping to preserve arts and culture and he does it in such an inspired and opened way. and i encourage you to consider all of the artists that he's helped over the years and inspired and the public that gets to have their kids and families come to the museum. so i, i speak in support of greg angelo and the

museum because of those things. some people don't take the risk to follow their dreams, and they do day jobs, and they give what's left of their time to their art. but he believes in it so much that he encourages people to live their dreams. and that's why i'm here to speak is your time. thank you. thank you. good afternoon. i am andrea sarmiento. i have been greg's neighbor for close to 30 years, i have been friends with him. i have hired his artist to come over to my home to entertain my family. i have gone over to his home to entertain and see the visual arts and experience all of his teammates and. and i am supporting his landmark as a neighbor and as a friend. thank you. thank you.

hello. my name is monica walden. i'm from the andes mountains. i've lived in california. the majority of my life and san francisco most of the last 36, as a working artist my whole life, it is always been a struggle. and, bringing art to young people and finding opportunities to inspire and collaborate with, artists of all generations has been something that has become increasingly rare. the gregangelo museum. i've seen phil, that for so many people, and time and time again i hear both visitors and artists say, you know, they were they were stuck creatively. they were deeply depressed. and one afternoon or, or one encounter is something that sparks something completely new in them. and they're able to move forward and get past the blocks, i'd just like to briefly quote cesar chavez here. when we really are honest with ourselves, we must admit that our lives are all that really

belong to us. and so it is how we use our lives that determines what kind of humans we are. and i just want to state that i don't see greg angelo as running a business. he's running a passion project. he's given his life, his home, and 100% of his resources to all of the community here, to anyone who wants to move forward. and in a time when so many people have lost their ability to connect with themselves as much less their family members, it's just been the most priceless thing to see and to experience on a weekly basis. and i just want to end by saying that it's no more exemplified by when i arrive every day i see greg angelo sweeping the sidewalks and the front walk. thank you. thank you. good afternoon, commissioners. my name is tom duffy and i noted in one of your regulations that one criteria for landmark status is enriching life in its educational and cultural dimensions in order to

serve spiritual as well as material needs. and i submit to you that that's exactly what this museum does. it's a work of art. it's a work of love. it's reflects the large soul of gregangelo herrera. and it's that large soul, which is why you've seen so many people here today and have received so many letters in support of what he does, not just his his house. and i think we take a large view of spiritual, you've heard so many stories about inspiration. that's part of it, there's a large spiritual aspect of community, which you've heard many stories about how he creates, that nurtures it all. the artists that belong to it. and then there's simply the spirituality that you get from visiting there. i've been there several times. you walk in and you realize you're part of something much larger than yourself. there's a whole nother world of imagination in, which is out there that you've neglected and which which remind

and it reminds you very much how you've neglected it and what you need to do. so you have this sense of both this larger outer world, but also by going through the rooms and listening to the docents, you start to self-reflect and you start to think like you've heard stories today about how can i be a better person? how can i do make my relationships closer? and i think that is really the essence of the spiritual aspect that his place strives for. thank you. thank you. hello, my name is nathan ng and i am a resident of balboa terrace. i'm a neighbor who lives on the same block as gregangelo museum. i've lived in a neighborhood for about seven years, and my wife and her family have lived here for about 24 years. ever since moving here , i've been captivated by the unique beauty and magnificence of the greg angelo museum. my family, including my two young kids, look forward to seeing greg, angelo and his associates

at the neighborhood and nearby community events, they're extremely kind, accepting and welcoming of people of all backgrounds. the museum is a must see destination, especially on halloween, and its unique exhibits do not disappoint. never have i felt the presence was was a nuisance to either me nor the neighborhood. rather, i have been proud that this artistic gem is in our neighborhood and i view it as the most unique thing in all of balboa terrace. i hope it continues to thrive after being assigned a landmark designation. due to the significant contributions to our community's artistic history and culture, the designation of the greg angelo museum as a landmark is not just about preserving a building or an organization, it's about affirming the value we place on culture, art, and diversity in san francisco. it's about making a statement. and even as we evolve, we honor the keystones of our community's identity. thank you. thank you.

hi, i'm larissa archer. i'm an artist and a native san franciscan. i come from a family of artists, so in my time, i've worked with greg angelo many times, and i've also seen my artist community, be annihilated by various economic downturns, starting in my life with nine over 11. and, reaching a horrific apogee during covid, displacement, economic downturns. but also many of these venues that we've lost and artist spaces and cultural gathering spaces, many of them had to be unrecognizably altered due to the demands of the local homeowners who want to live in suburban quietude. yet nevertheless chose to live in a cosmopolitan city, i would love

to see san francisco do a better job in instilling in the minds of homeowners and home buyers that they are not simply buying the right with their money to demand that the city and its culture buckle to their whims and their conveniences and their demands. but they're buying a responsibility to promote that culture. they have the heft. they have the right if greg angelo lived on a street full of renters, we wouldn't be having this conversation, because when we have to make a noise complaint, we have to call 311. this wouldn't be happening, i want people to if they own a home here, to know that their responsibility is to promote the culture, preserve it, protect it, because they can. and the people who are constantly being displaced and their space is being displaced don't have that kind of heft. thank you. thank you. my name is carter brooks. i

was born and raised in san francisco, and i currently live in westwood park, just next to balboa terrace, and i've watched through the years us lose many of these community spaces for artists from eight for eight gallery to sell space to other places where we could gather. and i rely on the greg angelo museum for my sanity to be able to gather with other artists. but there's also a historical preservation note i'd make. i personally and personal attachment to, seeing historic items that are displayed at greg angelo museum, one of them being a twisted grandfather clock that used to be part of goldman's defenestration, which was on a building at seventh and howard. so when i go by greg angelo museum, it actually reminds me of that history that i've seen all my life. so thank you very much. thank you. my name is tara seth. i live at 270 san leandro.

it's just a few doors away from greg angelo. he's a wonderful person. very nice person, but he lives in an hoa controlled area and he has not been a good neighbor from that point of view. we have tried to work with him on trying to control some of the outside. accouterments, if you will, and lawn furniture that is not in keeping with our hoa. when we first moved to that area, it was just a funny house. and now the funniness has moved right out onto the street, including the grandfather clock that has no place on the front lawn, it should be removed here for a quiet and beauty. and that beauty is being marred, i'm afraid, i have no problem with all the artists here. they're all very nice people. just keep

it inside the house. and maybe not right out into the street and on the lawn. thank you so much. thank you. hello. my name is laura franza, and on june 27th of this year, it will be my 40th anniversary in san francisco. so i moved here from new jersey, a 21 year old, totally wide eyed, totally enamored sisters of perpetual indulgence, the human jukebox. remember him and the woman who played the castro in the castro on her with the winged hat. all those people have sadly disappeared. not all those sisters are still around. i worked for bill graham management in the 90s, which is art. i managed artists, i managed the gin blossoms, the neville brothers, aaron neville. after that, i went on tour with cirque du soleil in europe. i was i was a director on tour, so i am very familiar with artistic personalities. i met greg when i came back from tour 23 years ago at the time, he was a teacher at

the circus center and also a performing whirling dervish. he was literally a whirling dervish. the most beautiful spectacle you could ever imagine . i am now also a writer for the san francisco arts monthly. i cover nightlife and festivals and music, so i cover arts that need coverage, that need attention. the san francisco arts monthly is 30 years. it's a publication that's been around for 30 years, that's having its struggles at the moment. and it is distributed with the new york times. i've seen musicians and bands leave this country, leave this city. there used to be all down by the bernal heights, and there were there were studios and there were musicians everywhere, and they're just gone. greg angelo is a united nations of artists. if you notice, there's a grand color scheme of people, cultures that come here, he he entertains and educates all ages from from toddlers to centenarians. the art that has been drained from this country or excuse me, from

this city has existed in san francisco at greg angelo's museum. he he hired mona karan, an art a muralist, when she was first starting out. she is now a world renowned muralist. thank you very much. and i also live in the mission, which has seen a lot of change. so this is a changing city. thank you. good afternoon. my name is melissa ward. i'm an attorney with the adams sterling law firm, and i represent the balboa terrace homes association. they wanted me to come and speak a little bit about the deed restrictions and other issues that we have, and just i mean, we're not opposed to artistic endeavors or artists or or neighbors getting together. obviously not. but this applicant is seeking a landmark designation because of the conditional use permit that he is also applied for, and that conditional use permit is seeking to greatly expand the business that he is currently operating in in his residence,

the deed restrictions date from, excuse me, 1923. it's a very old, historic, beautiful neighborhood full of little storybook cottages and obviously we've modernized with the times to allow people to have businesses in their in their homes that reflect the current community. so if you want to have an art studio in your home, that's great. no problem with that. if you want to write the great next great novel or practice law, or do whatever you're going to do, that's not going to be enforced by the hoa as a violation of those deed restrictions prohibiting businesses. but when you start to expand that art studio into an actual circus where people are showing up in busses to do tours on multiple, multiple times per week, which is what the conditional use permit is seeking, and you expand the entertainment space to not only be outside, but to have large groups come on the inside. that is really changing the character of the residential neighborhood, and it is operating a significantly increased business that the neighbors are, are

opposed to. so we don't we don't we we're in favor of art. and the neighborhood's been very tolerant and supportive of changes to the exterior appearance. not the landscaping that comes right down to the sidewalk that that was that's still being negotiated. but, but the concern is that this is the prerequisite to a greatly expanded business that is not consistent with the character of the neighborhood. so thank you very much for your consideration. thank you. good afternoon. my name is velia amarasingam. i run a corporate entertainment company called curated entertainment and i wanted to first of all just speak about greg angelo's reputation within the industry. i've served on the board of two event industry associations and i've been here in the bay area for 25 years, moved from australia. i heard about greg angelo just about the moment i joined the event industry.

here's a pioneer, here's an artist of artist. i personally would love to see his business expand, because i think the world needs to see what he and all of his fellow collaborators have created. it's the very essence of san francisco, that i've grown to love and appreciate. the only other point i'd like to make is it can't physically expand the place is very small. if you actually go inside very small groups of people can only enter at any given time. so this is not going to expand into a concert experience at any time. it's a very small, intimate experience and it's a great enhancement and enrichment to san francisco. thank you. thank you. hi, i'm judy sipe, i'm fifth generation californian, primarily san francisco. i have never seen anything similar to this in the

city or anywhere around here, and it's a place that i take visitors. friends have occasions. this is the one place that the visitors, like. australia was most recent. this is the one they go home talking about. partly because of the art, but partly because of the relationships and the ease of conversing and the appreciation of things that we don't take time in everyday life to just notice when we're in an everyday situation, it stands out there, another thing that has always surprised me is how involved greg has been with communities. the episcopalian church wanted some help in fundraising. he was there. his money, his entertainment, his food. that's been true. as i understand it, in neighborhood events. and somebody else had spoken to that as well. that hasn't been an obstacle. it's been wanting to share what we have, share the community and bring people together. this is the one place

that when covid hit and so many of my friends were talking about how bored they were, they didn't shut down. they created ways. greg was very innovative in some of the ways that they could still provide entertainment and fun and add to our lives in a time that was pretty bleak and do it along with health, considerations, and do it safely and beautifully. i really think it'd be very wise to have this as a landmark designation to make sure that it can continue. thank you. thank you. hello, commissioners. thank you for allowing us to speak. my name is gail perry and i am a born and raised san franciscan. i'm an artist. i own and work at foreign cinema in san francisco. and for ten years we've been working with greg angelo and his artists to create amazing fundraisers at san francisco's

mission district historic mission district. in all of our years together and working with the artists and working with his team, we have only seen amazing professional, professional behavior. he's so considerate. i do completely hear the neighbors, but i think that this opportunity would be something missed if it doesn't occur. but in our relationship with him, he's been so reasonable. i think that there must be some common ground here, and it is an intimate space inside. and i do feel the loss of our arts and our uniqueness in san francisco being 60 years old and i really plead with you to consider this as a deeply meaningful thing to do in our commitment to the arts in san francisco. so thank you. thank you. hello, i'm velma, i'm

not an artist, and i visited gregangelo museum twice this year. sorry. i'm nervous. i just want to say i have not heard people saying how fun it is to go to your place and be like a kid again in this stressful world. and please go and visit because it's just magical. thank you. thank you. good afternoon commissioners. i intentionally waited to be at the last because i am the one of the neighbors actually living right behind the museum. and we are great friends with, greg angelo and also his partner, michelangelo, and i've been. and my partner and my kids have been super supportive. and i've been in their, halloween parties. i brought friends to their house, but i am also awfully nervous and afraid of

this decision, because i believe that it's going to impact our lives tremendously. because when i look at other historical landmarks and a couple of artists and i see some of them actually, i know some of them because they they work in our easement. so basically their garage door is where you are sitting, and that's where my garage door. so we are so close to each other, and they work in front of their garage, which is i'm totally supportive. and during the covid they were there many people working and we've been supportive to them to survive in this city. and i totally agree. as an artist, i'm a designer myself, and i came from turkey, and i build my life here and san francisco and united state has been super supportive to me, but i understand their pain, and i believe that city needs to do something for the artists, but not in a residential area. and i'm totally okay accommodating the current situation, but making a historical landmark.

what happens there are going to be if there are more tourists in this neighborhood, then there is more. passing traffic between the easements because we don't have any boundaries within our neighborhood. so, i mean, i wanted to find a common ground, but i don't want to increase in the foot traffic. i don't want to increase in people are coming and spending more time in our, surrounding because there are definitely outdoor activities and but they've been downsides recently. but i don't know with this extension of permit, it's going to be more or they are going to be able to keep it what it is now. so if it is going to increase, unfortunately, i am opposed to that, to that, and i love them. i love their work. but, yeah, i'm totally impacted by this decision. thank you. thank you. hello, my name is anna lumpkin. i've lived and worked in san francisco since 1991 and raised my two children here. i or my two children have

gone through the san francisco public schools, from from kindergarten all the way through high school. i've been a very involved volunteer parent in the classroom and on the ptsa of james lick middle school. my daughter, who was 20 years old this past summer, was very fortunate and learned about the gregangelo museum and did an internship there. and her experience was one where she'd come back and tell me, oh, i had wonderful conversations and worked with all the different artists. my understanding was that it was a community. i didn't quite understand what it was, though, until i was invited to go on a tour. and i have to say that that tour is something which you have to experience to, to understand why it is that we're all here to request the validation of this extraordinary organization. it is a wonderful beacon of light in this time where everything is digitalized,

where the kids are being unfortunately more and more isolated from what it is we are each capable of making of creating, of playing, of inspiring each other, of play, of the imagination. and so in, in this tiny group, a small group of people that i was part of, we were all strangers with each other. time is up. but as others people, other people have said, we opened up in a safe and . a safe way. and we were able to be human with each other, honest with each other on an even plane. so it is a it is an extraordinarily lived, wonderful living example of a democratic, imaginative, humane organization that inspires all of us. thank you. thank you. how's it going, commissioners? now i'm here for

the right thing. sorry about walking up earlier, if you remember me, but i have been there once. i met greg once and that was all of like a week ago. but the impact was so profound. just being being in this space, in a time where everything seems to be turning towards, i mean, for a long time, right. profit incentives, which really sucks the soul and is easily corruptible, it was just beautiful to find a place like this that makes you really, really, just remember the spirit of humanity, and it definitely inspired me to just see that you don't have to give up your creativity to survive in a place like san francisco. i've been living here all my life. i love the base so much, but it definitely feels like it's a struggle to do anything but be a techie here. and so this has just been a really impactful thing for me to see. and i implore you all to take that into consideration. these people are doing really, really great

work, for the culture of the city. thank you. hello everyone. i'm violet bossow, a musician and artist moved to the city from the east coast about 2018. also to follow my dreams. and i haven't even been to the space. found out about it recently and it just. i'm so excited to know about it. he's following his dreams and inspiring all of us young artists, and i just wanted to speak for the new and upcoming artists. how how inspiring it is to see a space still here in the city. i'm excited to get involved. thank you. thank you. hi, my name is susan sangiacomo. i'm a native san francisco, an. i was born,

raised and still live here, not too far from greg. i've known greg since we were five years old, i was probably there when he. his family moved into the home, and i've seen him transform it over the last since he was a teenager. so so i'm completely in favor of this designation. and, nobody loves san francisco like greg and, and he's he cares for his community, and he gives back to his community. so thank you. thank you. good afternoon, commissioners, my name is antonio gomez. i'm an artist. i'm also a tech worker, and in a time where giant tech companies are also leaving the city, how do we expect even a small artist community to even survive? so

this just gives you an idea of how incredible and supportive the greg angelo museum is to the to the community and to the greater san francisco, i've been involved in the arts, circus performance arts community for the last 20 years. i started off with the cell space, performance arts and community. since 2002. i produced a public access show on channel 29. if you guys remember that, they're no longer here. cell space is no longer here. they used to have an after school program for in the mission district for, for youth, even for adults program. and those programs are not here anymore, the greg angelo i it's not a program, but it's definitely it's a it's an incubator of the arts, and for the community, above all, the greg angelo is an art and cultural san franciscan oasis.

it's a good neighbor, i think, to the neighborhood and to the city of san francisco. i've changed every time i return to the greg angelo museum, i'm a different person. i see this with the rest of the community, i highly recommend the greg museum for a landmark. destination status. and thank you for your time trying to keep it brief. thank you. commissioners, my name is scott kuiper. i'm a native of the bay area. i currently a neighbor just up the street in the ingleside neighborhood, i've been lucky enough to be involved with the community arts spaces since the formation of cell in 96, but, lucky enough to go by the gregangelo museum. a company reporter in 2000, or early 2000 during covid for really one of the most innovative and safe ways to preserve community. just really a genius way to still

approach keeping community cohesiveness in an awe inspiring and beautiful way. and this has been going on for some time there. but yes, their public side has expanded. you're going to take what is undeniably a beneficial thing. you've heard enough support here. that museum is indeed a cultural resource that the city needs to prioritize. having remained in san francisco. and you're going to try and take this ball of magic and shove it through the very hard edged civic processes. it sounds like it's now being under scrutiny, even though some of these activities have been going on for some time. this is one of the first steps. many of the issues regarding the neighbors can be addressed with. if they're going through the entertainment commission process. for some of the guidelines in regards to public interaction, i can tell you from seeing the public on the street, everybody is well behaved quite it, the actors and community members kept everybody in line. so, you know, there's a lot of kind of blanket ways these spaces can be seen. but this is really a well run and truly beneficial thing that has been an essential resource where we have so few resources left in the city. and you are the team that hopefully can push it

forward to the next step where it's still going to be under scrutiny and a lot of these things can get addressed, and there's got to be peace between the neighbors. this has be something the city prioritizes, but the neighbors and the artists have to be a piece at the end of this, too, so compromises can have to be reached. if you're still agitation, they're just going to be back here again. so you'll find a solution. but please have it be yes, today. and passing through the preservation commission. thank you. thank you. hello, i'm roy camlin, over 40 year resident of glen park, the presentation by the hoa and their attorney caused some confusion for me. i understood this commission today, is considering landmark designation, not the later, application for a conditional use. those are two separate events, and i feel like their whole argument today was against the conditional use. it should not have been presented here today. this commission is here

to rule on landmark designation. so just a point of confusion. wanting some clarity. thank you. are there any other members of the public? hi there. my name is david floyer. i'm a businessman. i think i'm the first one here, i live and work in san francisco. i started up two corporations, one high tech and one nonprofit. i'm lucky to be able to be a strong supporter and contributor to the san francisco arts. i wholeheartedly recommend the landmarking of the greg angelo museum. i always recommend greg angelo's museum to my clients, suppliers, and of course, family and friends as a unique experience. i wish it was

easier for them to visit it. this museum is internationally acclaimed artistic jewel of san francisco. every room, staircase, floor, surface, roof and object are are pieces of art within an artistic journey. it is a unique and overwhelming experience to me personally. the spiritual impact is on a par with istanbul's blue mosque at sunset. i've known greg angelo for over ten years in san francisco, has no greater combination of artists, producer and enabler. he has employed so many emerging artists to improve the museum, create outstanding experiences, and nurtured the city's artistic roots. i strongly support the greg angelo museum as a historic landmark. thank you. hello board, my name

is noah zavala, and i'm a homeowner here in san francisco and a resident of over 40 years. i speak from my heart is that when i was a young man and poor and confused, someone mentioned art and someone pointed to art, and i said, well, my mother said, you can do whatever you can become president of the united states, but don't give up your day job. so i didn't, but i studied and i was attracted to art and i was inspired by individuals who encouraged me, to pursue a life as an artist. my family were migrant workers. and here i am, 70 years old. i've spent my entire life being an artist, as a mime artist. shh. don't tell anybody. and what comes to mind is just the idea i want to leave you with.

you know, we know great philosophers said don't put a bushel over a candle. this is a beautiful way of introducing art to individuals. my little niece went there for the first time. she's five years old, and she was just wide eyed and so inspired. yes. and. and to me, it reminded me of my inspiration as a young man, as a child, charlie chaplin, you know, but to have that encouragement that this is what i don't want to see put out in san francisco, so many of it has been put out. so thank you so much and consider it. thank you. hello. my name is marcello. i'm the creative director there. i've been there for over six years. i want to address a few things here. one is. i've been hearing all these statements. it's nothing about the art. it's not about the

artists. it sounds like some what i have heard as a kid being gay, that nothing about being gay. i have a gay friend. so we are artists. nothing against the artists. so there's another point i wanted to bring. somebody brought a point that there was busses coming there in five years that i have there, there's three busses that came. no one stopped. but for five minutes to drop the guests. this is a place we are here today to talk about. is it a landmark or not? i invite you all to come and see inside of this. this is not hundreds or thousands, zillions of hours that the artists have made this into a special place. this is a special place that is made and it's historic because of all the artists that worked on it. and i wanted you to have to come in and see, because i can't explain to you what it is. once you make this into a landmark, we will

live by one saying that we have on the wall what we do now echoes in eternity. thank you. thank you. okay, last call for public comment on this item. seeing none. i think you have, ma'am. you've already spoken. yes i was, while you've already spoken right for those who have not already spoken, last call seeing none. public comment is closed on this matter is now before you commissioners. so commissioners, before we deliberate, i'm going to ask that we take a very short break and then when we come back, i'm going to ask mr. secret to just once again, share with the public as well as with the commissioners about what we're asked to deliberate here today. so if you could give us about five minutes as

provide for us a summary of what we are asked to do with this agenda item. sure. hi, commissioners. richard craig, department staff. so just to frame your conversation and also just to set the stage for the public in terms of this commission's particular purview, the hpc has purview over landmark designations, as detailed in article ten of the planning code that basically limits their review to the physical features and aspects of the building and reviewing the designation report as presented by staff relative to those criteria. so things related to the use. for example, we are not landmarking the use, as part of this, things related to the operation of businesses or

residences within there are not under the purview of the hpc in this particular instance. that's something that can be handled later by the planning commission in any future review. so the historic preservation will provide a recommendation to the board of supervisors, at the land use hearing of the land use committee of the board of supervisors, the three members of the land use hearing committee will will further hear the project or the landmark designation to see if it qualifies for article ten designation. thank you. so, commissioner comments, commissioner foley. so i have a lot of things to say, and i think i want to say two things. and i said this in the last hearing that was pretty contentious around the housing element, and we had people that were really upset and we need to actually find a way to get along and work together and i heard that a lot from the greg angelo side, and i thought it was really great, and we just have to figure that out. and i think

that the greg angelo people do want to figure out a way to work with the neighborhood and work with the community. and i think that's what life is about. i think one thing that i wish greg angelo did from an art perspective is actually do it in another place that's even bigger . i think doing it where he does now is great, but doing it somewhere else in a bigger venue would be incredible. i'm a real estate developer by trade. i understand the hoa. i understand that the neighbors, i understand all these things. i was asked the other day who i thought was like the best architect out there, and i was with a bunch of developers and they named a bunch of names. and at the end of the day they said, what about you, foley? i said, gaudi. yeah. and the interesting thing is, when i when i looked at all the work at greg angelo and i, and i saw the colors and everything else, it really thought about that. so it really it really brought that back, going to the

people that are the neighbors that need security, they need peace. that's going to be a whole nother issue with the at the planning commission around conditional use. i'm excited for the excitement that you bring to the city. i think we actually need more bright spots in the city. i think we need more more life in the city. and i'm really happy that you're here. thank you. any other commissioner, commissioner baldauf? yes, i just want to say, can you turn on your microphone? i want to say to everybody in this room, that a meeting, like, or this presentation that we just had with everybody is the reason that i joined this commission, it is we live in a remarkable city and remarkable situations are going to require complex meetings like this. i think that there is a lot i'm. i have a lot

of questions, but i want to sort of echo what commissioner foley said is that i hope that everybody can participate in this process from a position of good faith, that we're going to try to work this out as san franciscans, because i think there's a lot at stake for everybody here. so i'm going to start with some questions of staff, i, i am completely confused as to how we're at the state we're at right now with a planning department that requests input from people and that somehow, we just see a report that says, oh, there were two negative comments, one from the, neighborhood association and 155 others. i think i'd like

to understand why we're where we are now in this process in terms of staff's relationship with all of the parties. commissioner baldauf can i ask you to clarify your question? so are you asking why we're accepting public comment on a particular item? i the statement in the report is that we strongly support something, and yet there's clearly neighborhood consternation. and the neighborhood consternation is not spelled out in the report, the neighborhood there doesn't seem to have been a comment that staff tried to work with the neighborhood and the applicant or the i don't know that you're an applicant in this situation, but the designee and i'm just i'm trying to understand and how we function as a city to get to common ground and i would have

thought that the department would have had a stake in that desire. so just before i defer to miss samuels, so just to provide context, the this designation was forwarded to us by supervisor melgar, under the planning code, we have a mandate to complete the review of our landmark designation and provide to the hpc a recommendation on staff's end for what we think the, building, how the building basically meets the criteria of article 11. so the board basically puts a mandate on us to research the property, see how it meets article ten, and then we conduct a neighborhood notice during that time when we conduct a neighborhood notice, we can accept public comment on the landmark nomination and the designation, if we receive public comment prior to the

publication of the packet, we usually denote that within the staff report, if the public comment comes after the publication of the packet and the publication of the packet usually happens on the thursday or friday prior to the hpc hearing, then we'll usually provide an update which i think staff did today. so during that time frame, members of the public are welcome to, discuss, a particular application or project with department staff. and we can explain how, how, our kind of function works. but if the members of the public don't contact us, we don't have the ability to, outreach with them. i guess the report says that there was a comment from the neighborhood association, so i guess i. but that's the limit of the discussion in the report. yeah. and keep in mind, if the

staff sees that the hpc was copied on the correspondence, then we won't provide additional detail in the case report. so, miss samuels, will you just, detail the public correspondence that you received to date? yes. so through email and some calls, i've received, you know, either in opposition or in support, like, you know, letters and details about, you know, people's feelings and people's thoughts on the proposed project or the proposed designation, and then in some instances, like the hoa, i've had a few phone calls outlaying the, you know, the process and what they can. you know, how they can further their opposition or detail, you know, what their next steps are essentially in this process, but yeah, at this at this time, it's mostly just, you know, i respond as much as i can to questions, concerns and have taken that data to present to you today. and so the your recommendation in terms of the department's

recommendation is purely that it meets certain criteria. it's not that you're saying as a department, we support this in the totality of this context, correct? yes, so i guess that brings me to my next question, which is what are we actually landmarking right here? are we landmarking non-conforming things that were built without permits in the front yard? are we landmarking the exterior? the in your report, you say the interior art is regulated, but it's not. i don't know that we're landmarking an interior in this situation. so, what were landmarking is essentially all of the art installations within the property, and that does include, like exterior as well

as the interior art installations. there are numerous murals, art scapes, paintings, pictures and photographs, drapery, you know, significant installations from the various artists that have contributed throughout the decades. and then within the exterior of the building, they've adorned the building with, like, you know, like metal streaming along the eaves or, landscaping and other, just like physical things that have been set within the landscape. so we are i mean, because there are very few landmarked interiors in san francisco, and i want to get very clear, we are landmarking the interior here. yes. but it is going to be in, kind of a living and evolving art scape where we're not going to be like, oh, this specific mural has to stay, you know, the same for eternity. it may be evolving as we introduce, you know, new

artists and new, you know, lives of walk within this community. well, that was going to be my next question, which was, what is the, you know, part of what i love about this project is that it feels very illegal to begin with. and i am a very nervous about because i'm subject in my world to the department's regulation. and i can say it's very onerous and i don't know what how are you going to set up this process that's going to do art justice, and yet still respect that we've landmarked it . yeah pillar of the valley planning department staff. so so, you're right. it's a complicated, complicated situation, which is true for all landmarks, but in this case, so we are calling out as character

defining features to the landmark interior spaces and the features within those spaces, including artworks and art installations. because they do contribute to that significance. however, article ten, then states that for in the once it's landmark, and we've identified those character defining features that that future projects or alterations that require a permit, particularly usually a building permit, then are subject to, a certificate of appropriateness and review by this commission for those alterations, anything any alterations that do not require or do not trigger a permit. nothing has changed about that with the landmark designation. so there are there are certainly in any properties and including this one and particularly this one, there will be alterations

made, new art installations put in, art installations taken out. if that work would not require for a permit, then it it would go forward as it currently does, which is an ever evolving process. i actually think that that's a cop out. personally, i think it's a weak, designation because, i think that we're sitting here being asked to celebrate art, and then you're saying, well, we don't really have any enforcement mechanism that after the artist passes away, that a future owner couldn't just scrape the art off the wall because you don't need to have a permit to scrape art off the wall. so i guess i'm looking. i feel like it would be appropriate to have a more,

more, thoughtful response than just saying, well, if it you can do anything so long as it you don't need a permit. so our planning department staff, that is a fair statement, i think. then also, you might want to consider how article ten provides for landmark designation and review of projects. and that is the case. i'm. but but but i think i'm and i'm sorry if i sound contentious, but i just feel like this is an amazing, amazing challenge. and i feel like it's important to have a process that respects the nuance of the challenge. and, and so to just say, oh, well, if it doesn't need a permit because i think one of the probably the challenges of this project and in my mind, one of the beauties of this project is probably a lot of stuff that might have needed permits got done without permits, i don't know, but

that's just my guess. and so and so we're supposed to celebrate that on one hand and then leave it to the whims on another. so i don't know. i think we need to think through how this gets done . commissioner, if i can bring up another landmark that we had called the cloud of witnesses, whereby by the pastor that basically helped create this folk art piece, is still alive, it's still active, it's still evolving the artwork. and i think that's in particular what we understood was happening here is that there is an artist still alive. they are still working within the space. they are still evolving the space. so while the landmarking is recognizing the importance of the building and the structure and some of the physical features, we don't want to also hamstring the artist that's in that has basically helped create the work, from further and future creativity. so at a certain point, you know,

if the property passes hands, that artwork would basically sit in stone to a certain degree because it's no longer associated with the person that has helped create it or the institution in this case, that helping create all of the artwork. so we have a mechanism already that the hpc has used in the past towards ensuring that we allow for creativity and freedom and freedom, but also, recognition, which i think in this case, we, the department staff, have found to be very important to recognize something like this. it's a very san francisco institution, and that's particularly that connects well into our history of counterculture, and that's something that basically we want to make sure we memorialize, but also provide for a little bit of flexibility, which is odd for us, i will admit. for future. but what i don't understand is if the building gets sold at

some point and something doesn't require a permit to strip the art off the wall, is the art protected? we would have mechanisms to enforce upon the artwork at the time of sale or, of, you know, disassociation with the institution or person. what what are those mechanisms, article ten, we basically can look at the landmark designation report and file for enforcement planning department enforcement accordingly. thank you. commissioner warren. so i think some of the questions that, were brought up in this packet are answered in the sense of the business being separate from the landmark designation. and as far as we're landmarking the character defining features that

compose this landmark work, on the exterior and on the interior, and then the question i would ask is, are there any character defining features that are listed in the designation in nomination that are in the landscape that is encroaching into the setback? within the side setbacks, there are, like our installations within the property lines and within their, fences, though they're not like permitted obstructions, they're purely, i actually one of the photos was in my presentation, there are nonpermanent not yet nonpermanent, it's not a structure. they're not, like a, like into the foundation or anything, purely decorative iron

and no larger than, say, my body. it's yeah, smaller, and then, you know, in, in terms of commissioner baldauf questions, there is a prescribed way that art historic resources are evaluated for their historic significance, part of which is in this case would be its association with greg angelo herrera. and then the other would be architectural artist, artistic merit, and, and so those are defined in a specific way. and also call out the specific artists that are working in that grouping and have, you know, have been working with greg angelo. so that would be contained in that, and the landmark designation would would be intact. but when it passes to another owner at that time and at that time, the

building would be looked at and it's in its entirety the way that it was left by the greg angelo museum. and that would be constituted into some sort of document, i would assume is that correct, or is that. yeah. pillar of the valley planning department staff. so the document i think that you're referring to is the landmark designation and the ordinance that is part of the landmark designation process. so that ordinance, is recorded against the property through a notice of special restriction, which is irrespective of property owner. so it will pass with each property owner as part of the legal parcel and property, with that same description as you are considering today in terms of

how it meets the criteria for eligibility for article ten, as well as what those character defining features are. let's say it passes to a new owner. they have a different artistic conglomerate that is working on it. how would how would the works that are associated with greg angelo be conserved as opposed to the new artist that is doing work that is on top of or working on the same areas that were done previously? i think that it is important to note that the particular pieces, art pieces are not being called out in this designation. it is the, the environment and the collection of installations that is being called out, so i think that in that sense, the

designating ordinance does not provide that kind of tool in terms of identifying each piece and artist and, that historic, context, but with the intent that to allow for evolution as it goes forward, separate from, possibly separate from the current property owner, the current group of artists severed from the, the significance as it applies to a person, in this case greg angelo and or the or the artistic merit. i think that the. that would be a question for a future. consideration either of a certificate of appropriateness or of whether or

not this still would be main eligible to be a local landmark, i mean, this is not this is more nuanced, but not necessarily different from, any landmark that we have where a future owner could make radical changes , either legally or not. and then we would be asked to consider and this commission, this body would be asked to consider, does this proposed work or the work that's already happened still maintain the significance that we designate this for? there is a process by which you can delist a landmark. i think we're getting a little outside of the question before us today. that's true. thank you. thank you, commissioner wright, yeah, i would just, kind of follow that up. i think, with

, with and this may be a question for staff as well as is really something that would be thought about in future. proceedings beyond this commission, but that if, you know, plans, i suppose, for maintenance of the museum or of the interior, you know, at some point in time when greg angelo dies or sells the house or leaves or, you know, the, the, the use is changed. and, also to think about, is that if a future owner comes in and makes changes, then then, the if this is landmarked, the landmark may lose integrity, so it may not

retain enough integrity to remain, designated for this reason, for this significant use , i think, commissioner, i'm going to ask for some clarification. so, the key thing to remember about the landmarking is that the landmarking travels with the land and the building. so regardless of who the owner is, in the future, you have a landmarked property. if that owner, hopefully, under stands what they are purchasing right in the future or whoever inherits the property understands that what they are purchasing and what the important features of the building are. we have enforcement mechanisms, as you probably have heard in past hearings, for both, reporting illegal work that has been done to the property, work that has

basically be done without permits, for example, in this instance, for this property, given the artwork basically overlaps pretty heavily with the spaces, is when staff undertook the review of the project. we are building in flexibility for artwork to evolve, right? in this case, the we do not want to make a static landmark like we normally would in other circumstances. given that the artwork both permeates on the exterior and the interior of the home, and it's kind of immersed both with home and with the, the business that's, that's there. so that's partly how and why the landmarking is written in the way it is, is to allow for that level of flexibility. fauci, so that way, if in the future something is changed, the, the who of changing it actually matters quite a bit because the

artist, the original author and the artist that did the work becomes important because that is what is basically helping define the event. and the continuum that we've defined. yeah and then i think that thank you, that, you know, our, our review, is somewhat simplified, thanks to mr. südkreuz, discussion, when we came back from the recess about the purview of this commission, being, relative to the, the statement of significance and the character defining features, related to that significance, the, the land use conditional use, businesses and i would say likely even like deed issues

with the hoa are all outside of this. so we're strictly looking at the significance of the significance that's mentioned in the report and, and the character defining features related to that. correct that's correct. thank you, commissioner baldauf. yeah, i, i guess i'm looking at the photos in the exhibit, and i'm really trying to understand. i i believe that there are certain things that are clearly being landmarked in my mind, or what's making me feel like this is a landmark. like the photo, the first photo that has the mosaic floor, is the mosaic floor part of the landmark or is it not? so are the valley planning department staff? yes. the mosaic floor is called out as part of the character defining features of

the landmark and the mosaic on the walls in. yes, the, the painting on the ceilings and the light fixtures. yes. as they are listed in the character defining features in the draft ordinance. okay and, and i think you said the copper decorations on the exterior are also part of the landmark, correct? but some of the photographs are look like they're installations that are hanging that could be easily removed. and those are the ones that you're saying are not. they contribute to the significance, but they would be, they and they are noted as contributing. but yes, if they didn't require a

permit to move them around or put new ones in or change pieces of them, that would not, that would that would not necessarily require a certificate of appropriateness. that is not to say they aren't part of the landmark. i suppose my struggle is i'm bought into this as an amazing place. we can't predict the future. gregangelo we're all mortal. i would like to think that we're celebrating the totality of something. i would be very disappointed if, when it was sold, a bunch of this stuff was gutted out and we were left with a half done experience. how can we not have that happen? or how can we be assured that that wouldn't happen? pillar of the valley planning department staff

i don't believe that under the current, regulations and article ten, we can make those types of extensive guarantees for any landmark. i think that the question before you today is, does this property meet the eligibility requirements and do you feel that the character defining features have been adequately identified such that you can make a recommendation on a positive or negative recommendation to the board? i guess my struggle commissioners, if i may interrupt and i apologize for doing so. i don't mean to delay the deliberation, but we have a hard stop at 430. there's a waterfront resilience program, informational item that really needs to be heard today, and i don't know how much additional public comment we will receive on that item, we have a hard stop at 430 because the police commission uses these

chambers at at that time. so, not trying to rush the deliberation. i'm just giving you sort of what's what needs to happen. yes, please. so i, i think commissioner baldauf, i think that what we've seen in front of this commission is people we have all these rules and regulations. we're going to have a deed restriction. there's going to be a notice on title for that of all these things. if somebody decides to go in and rip it out in the future, we we're not going to be able to control that. that's because we see things that come in front of us all the time where people were supposed to get all the right permits, and then they violated it. but again, i think what we're trying to do is we're trying to say, can we landmark this this way right now? i believe we can and i believe all the body of work has been done. so i think the nuances you're talking about are covered and people can do bad things in the future. thank you. commissioner vergara, i understand that

landmarking a structure and a conditional use permit are two different things. that's correct. but as i understand what i've heard today, in this case, they're connected. and correct me if i'm wrong because a conditional use permit cannot be requested unless and until the structure is landmarked first. is that correct, correct. so planning code section. that is correct, so for this specific like kind of path planning code section 180 6.3, states that once something is like a landmark. so something already stated as a landmark can obtain a conditional use authorization in some rh and district to allow for uses that are not normally allowed in those zoning districts. so they would be a, they would be held at the,

requirements, the zoning requirements or the zoning allowances of the nc one zoning districts. and that would allow for like general entertainment, which is allowed in the nc ones, but not allowed in the rh districts. so it sounds to me that they are connected in. yes through the. yeah, through 180 6.3, which is why i would suggest and i looked at all of the letters in support that we received, and i looked at the couple of letters in opposition. i heard more opposition today or more concerned today. i should say. it seems to me that it might be. i throw this out to see if any of my other commissioners think it might be a good idea to continue this for two reasons. one is to give the all of the neighbors an opportunity to talk about this, because it sounds like the main concern is more about conditional use rather than landmarking give the neighbors a chance to hopefully work something out, and possibly if other members of the commission would like to. perhaps if we're

able to tour the museum. i know it was helpful for me when we toured the castro theater and the and the north, the chinatown library, and then give us time to reflect more and then and i know we're running out of time now, but but it's not. that's not our job, okay? the job of ours is to say it's a landmark or not. then they have to go through a conditional use permit. they have to go through the board of soups, land use. they have to go through the planning commission. there's a whole road of stuff. and our job is to make a decision on a landmark. that's it. well, the board will have final say. the board will have final say. but my point is, what we do in this city all the time is we create more and more byzantine things, and we talk about things and we don't focus on what we're supposed to do. our job at this hearing today is as a landmark. it's not a conditional use permit in the future. it's not what the board of soups are going to do in the future. it's do we have every thing organized to do landmark? well, with the

historic preservation commission is so i make a motion to approve, commissioner campbell, did you want to. okay, there is a motion. is there a second before the okay? because before there was a second, i wanted to suggest that we do continue it, well, you can make that motion as well. you can then. i'd like to make that motion that we continue it for, to allow for more reflection and discussion. so, commissioners, just to opine a little bit on some of your discussion. so we are aware that obviously there's some conflict between the proposed use and the neighbors. obviously we always do try and strike compromise. given that the conditional use is dependent on the landmarking, the landmarking becomes a big step, in terms of that. so having conversations early when it's not viable yet to basically pursue. so right now they can't move forward with the conditional use because the

landmarking is still pending. so we don't know what your decisions will be. so hence why our staff haven't engaged fully to basically try and mediate between what the hoa and some of the neighbors are and what the, use is. so the one is dependent on the other. but your decision on it actually becomes important for us, because if, for example, you say no to the landmarking, then it's moot for us to pursue additional conversations with the neighbors. so and i'm sure to it is something that, you know, i, i will say not to speak for the supervisor, but i do know that, like we at the city try to strike a balance with the neighbors. it's consistently what we are asked to do pretty heavily by our commissioners, by our decision makers, is to somehow figure out a compromise to allow basically a little bit for everyone, and then ultimately, decision makers have to make the call about whether or not it a proposal or

something else, meets the both the guidelines that the city has adopted and did the staff at the end of the day do its job? so maybe just to reiterate that we at the historic preservation commission are asked to determine whether we recommend this project go forward as a landmark designation or not. that is what we're asked to do. and i would like to stress that your action today is a recommendation to the board of supervisors, if you recommend. either way, the board can still do whatever they want. that's correct. so there is a motion and there's an alternate motion. there is a there are two motions on the floor i haven't heard a second for either. is there a second for the motion made by commissioner foley? i second, second on that. is there a second on the motion made by commissioner vergara? second. and is there a specific date two

weeks a month? i would imagine. can you turn your mic on? sorry, sorry to interrupt. planning department staff valley, so because this was a board initiated, landmark designation, we are under a, a time frame for review by this commission. we were granted a 30 day extension by the board, but beyond, i believe. i believe that extension would expire on april 16th. so i believe that only the april third hearing would be a possibility to have this heard within that time frame. thank april 3rd. april 3rd, please. very good. commissioners there are two motions on the floor. one to adopt a recommendation for approval and one for continuous ice. although the motion to adopt was made first, the motion to continue as a

procedural matter takes precedence. so we'll take up that matter first on the motion to continue to april 3rd, commissioner baldauf i commissioner. campbell. nay, commissioner. vergara. yes. commissioner. wright. no commissioner. foley. no. commissioner. nickerson. no and. commissioner. president. matsuda. no. that motion fails. five or 2 to 5 with commissioners campbell, wright, foley and august warren and matsuda voting against on the motion to adopt a recommendation for approval, commissioner baldauf, i commissioner campbell. yes. commissioner. vergara. yes commissioner. wright. yes. commissioner. foley i. commissioner warren. yes. and commissioner. president. matsuda. yes. so moved. commissioners. that motion passes unanimously 7 to 0. thank you. members of the public. i'm going to ask that you leave quietly if you unless you're going to plan to stay for the

remainder. but we have a very important item coming up next that we need to attend to very quickly. thank you very much for your attendance today. commissioners through the chair, we will be taking up item nine out of order, and more than likely continuing items seven and eight, given our time. so item nine, case number 2019 hyphen 004879 cw p for the waterfront resilience program. this is for your review and comment, and there is a time specific related issue associated with this, which is why we're taking it out of order. so you can consider it today, right, and they need to receive your comment on the program itself. okay i think. i still appreciate that. okay. okay. we're ready. okay okay.

thank you very much. good afternoon. hpc commissioners. alison, san francisco planning department staff, thank you for having us here today for an additional presentation on the san francisco coastal waterfront flood study. as you will remember, the port of san francisco provided an informational presentation focusing on the draft flood study report on march 6th. today, we are fortunate to host port staff again to provide an additional hearing focusing on the nepa environmental impact statement and the draft section 106 programmatic agreement for the flood study. i am joined by port staff brad benson, waterfront resilience director kelly capone, project manager mark paez, historic preservation coordinator, all from the port, as well as jeremy shaw from the planning department citywide division. the aim of the item today is to provide hpc the opportunity to review and comment on the historic resource analysis undertaken in the environmental review for the flood study starting january 26th. the project launched a 60 day comment period ending on

march 29th. hence the need to get this to you today for your review and comment comments from the commission today and from the march sixth hearing will be summarized and provided to the army corps of engineers. additionally, the port army corps of engineers, shippo, tribal representatives and consulting parties will continue to work on the section 106 programmatic agreement, which is anticipated to be finalized at the end of 2025, i will now pass the presentation over to kelly capone of the port. thank you. good afternoon. hpc commissioners. my name is kelly capone. i'm the project manager in the waterfront resilience program with the port, and i manage the flood study with the army corps of engineers. so joe, i know you've had a long day and some of the early slides are are a repeat of what was presented last time. so i think i can go through them very quickly. and i think the most important thing

that we want to try to do today is your comments on on the environmental impact statement and the nepa process, and hear from you and be able to help you with whatever comments and a comment letter to be submitted so you can go ahead and flip through. so i'm not going to go through the background because again, when adam barrett was here, he he presented the thing. but the draft plan and a bunch of the information for the flood study, it is a flood study with the army corps of engineers. and i think you can go ahead and say we're very early in the process. we have a conceptual idea of the plan, and that's what we have in the environmental impact statement. so i just want to highlight that we're very early in the process, and we are at a conceptual level. and a lot of work went into developing this plan. i'm not going to go into the background and into that so we can go forward, working with the army corps of engineers, we

had the opportunity to look at community benefits and other social effects to develop our plan. and so historic resources and the historic districts were one of the considerations that we really got to look at when we were developing the plan. so i just wanted to highlight that as we were as we were developing the plan, all right, this slide here, this is the meat of why we're here, the draft integrated feasibility report and environmental impact statement was published on january 26th. we are in a 60 day public comment period now for that document for the environmental impact statement prepared under nepa, the national environmental policy act, there there is a requirement for environmental compliance. and one of the items that we have to cover for environmental compliance is compliance with the national historic preservation act. so there is a draft programmatic

agreement also in the document, i'm just going to very quickly look at the draft plan. again, i'm not going to go into any of this in detail, but this is the draft plan that is in the environmental impact statement. it's also called the total net benefit plan. and you might have heard it also referred to as a comprehensive benefit plan. but it's the plan that really looks at these other social benefits to, to, to try to maximize social benefits as part of the plan. so this plan is, is, broken up into four reaches. and adam went through each of these reaches last time we were here. so i'm not going to repeat that. there was a lot of work that went into developing that plan and a lot of outreach. we did a lot of community meetings, and every time we go to a community meeting, we highlight the historic district and the historic resources. that's part so that the public is aware that this is a really important piece

of the property. we we have pulled together a historic preservation, an technical advisory committee. so it's a group of professionals that we work with that advise us. and those these are folks some of these folks were involved with listing the historic districts on the national register. so we're really lucky to have access to these people to help us with, with processing this type of a plan. as i mentioned, the section 106 process will be going on in parallel. there is a programmatic agreement and there's a requirement for a programmatic historic properties treatment plan that will be prepared. that programmatic agreement and the section 106 process runs in parallel to the nepa process. so you don't have to have all your comments on the programmatic agreement done by march 29th. that process will continue and will aim to have a completed programmatic agreement

by the end of 2025, so you'll have many more opportunities to dig into the programmatic agreement and have agreement, have comments, and help us, help us with that document. i think we can skip through this. this oh, yeah, this one. we just want to i just want to highlight that, the eis, the environmental impact statement did identify the potential impacts on archeological and historic resources, significant and unavoidable. again, we're at a very conceptual level. so it also describes the difficulty in trying to identify those impacts now, but concludes that there could be those those types of impacts with this plan, here i just want to highlight that there is one aspect of the plan which is impacting historic district historic buildings associated with the union iron work historic district, and we are going to make a request that that line of defense move to the

outside of those buildings. so to the water side of those buildings, so that they will be protected with the, the features that will build for flood risk mitigation, i just i want to highlight this slide. so this is again just showing the two, the two, processes in parallel. we've got the eis. the environmental impact statement is the majority of it the analysis is covered in appendix d in the report. and that just shows the breakdown of what how it was analyzed in appendix d. so a section 4.18 is the cultural resources section. and then appendix d three is the national historic preservation act compliance, which is the draft programmatic agreement. so i just want to explain where things were in the document. and we are still in the public

comment period, the public comments end on march 29th. and the next slide is for any members of the public that want to make comments. it's still open and this is how you would make comments. and we were asking this commission for their comments, which will also be submitted through this same process. that's it. thank you. with that, we should open up public comment. members of the public this is your opportunity to address the commission on this item. please come forward. seeing none public comment is closed. commissioners, this is now before you. thank you, commissioner warren, as as, president matsuda and i have been part of the, historic preservation technical advisory committee that's been watching this project for the last year or so, i have some background in it, and i was, you know, kind of

going through the process of looking at this and thinking about how it relates to the secretary of secretary of the interior standards for rehabilitation. i pulled the document that the national park service prepared in 2021, which are the guidelines for flood planning that those particular guidelines are for floodplains. but a lot of the sort of general, you know, guide lines for, for what we're looking. at here with waterfront resilience, are applicable. so some of those guidelines include planning and assessment of flood risk reduction, temporary protective measures, site and landscape adaptations, protecting utilities, dry flood proofing, wet flood proofing. fill the basement. elevate the building. elevate the interior structure. abandon the lowest floor. move the historic building. so i

think this plan is compiling a composition of all of these kind of measures and looking at each of the reaches in the sense of, also, effect on communities and resources and the level of sea level rise that they would be impacted by. so i think they're they're applying all of these guidelines to how they're planning this. now, the big broad strokes are that the bulkhead wharf, wharf buildings would be raised up along with portions of the embarcadero where we see the most impact with the raising of the ferry building and so forth, and yeah, there is the worry about the pier finger piers being kept at a lower height. but as i mentioned in the guidelines for flood adaptation, it one of the

recommendations is to abandon the lowest floor, and in the plan, they've also caveated this by saying that private funds can be used in the future when, when and if these, finger piers are inundated that a partner can come in and rebuild them, which i think is an appropriate measure if we're able to get funding for the portions that the federal funding that we can get portions, funded for this project, it's going to be difficult to make make everything happen at the same time. and we know that the finger pier work would be at least $20 billion. so if we imagine that we are conserving and restoring the waterfront, i think taking the, the, the measures that you're taking are appropriate, the question i

would have is that in in your summary of historic resources, there was a huge number of resources, some something like 2800 resources that were considered, and there's two historic districts within the reaches is, with a limited number of resources. now, if you are applying the principles along that shoreline, are is that saving the resources that are more inland, or is it affecting those also, even even with the measures that you're taking? i brad benson, i'm the ports waterfront resilience director. yes. there are a lot of resources in the future floodplain that would be defended by the actions in the

plan, the northeast historic district comes to mind in that embarcadero area, resources within the union ironworks historic district at pier 70 would also be defended by these coastal defenses. and then, as you mentioned, there would be investment in the wharf area and elevating the ferry building. and one of the findings of the analysis is that without that large federal investment, we could end up losing the wharves by the 2050s or so, just due to age and condition. and one of the worries is if we lose, say, half of the wharves, we would lose access to those piers and use of those piers as well. thank you, yeah. and then so i wanted to ask, sorry, i lost my train of thought there, so there were two, two resources building

six and 111 at pier 70. i heard miss capone say something about about changing a portion of it to be able to protect those buildings. is that. are you referring to those buildings in the union ironworks historic district? yes the draft plan as it's aligned right now would demolish those two buildings, where we were in the planning process, we couldn't make the kinds of finer grained tweaks that we wanted to make at the time. now we can. and the city's already gone on record saying, let's realign those coastal flood defenses so that demolition is not required for those resources. so that's that's already in the city's comment letter. and it may be something that you want to consider as well, and then a question for the planning department would be that within those areas, approximately 544 properties may be eligible to

the national register of historic places, and as my understanding is that, you know, as we're planning for, the 50 year mark for eligibility to be at 2040 starting in 2040, do you think that we can evaluate those properties parties, before, after that time and possibly use, criteria in consideration g if they are of merit? so say there's two different issues there. one is that, many of our resources have been evaluated for the california register. so i think part of that would be determining whether or not they were also then eligible for the national register. and also to clarify that this will be a sort of an ongoing process. so, so basically that we i wouldn't see

that as being done as part of this, the eis process, of course, but that would be something that could. yeah, on that would be ongoing, as well. and so as, as these projects come in which the port could talk to you more directly, you know, we would be thinking about that as well. and then, right, as things that are also becoming eligible, due to age or, or other topics, but i think it's the most of those resources are actually, i think because it's they haven't been fully evaluated for the national register rather than would the would the city survey encompass those over the next few years? and then i would also say that we'll also be going through this process for this project in the future. so that's something that we can consider as part of the analysis. as part of that, do you, mr. speaker, would the city survey cover those besides what this process is? yeah, it can i will admit that in general, our focus has been the california register. but the criteria obviously between the two are very similar. and i know that we

are flagging properties that we think have potential landmark status. and obviously those would probably make a natural fit for the national register as well. how would this, flood study affect future development within the next few years of buildings on the waterfront? what would that mean? that they would be developed in a way that they're already flood proof flood proofing the new construction. so, mainly except for the fisherman's wharf area, this is looking at developing a continuous line of coastal flood defenses. up until this point, the city has asked both city capital projects and development in the future. floodplain to do what you're talking about. so

i'll give two examples mission rock and pier 70 development. the city said. we need that to be resilient for the next hundred years. so they have raised the grades of those particular sites. that was mission rock and mission rock and pier 70, the brookfield portion of that of that project, and so, you know, in some cases 8 to 10ft at pier 70 to get up to the desired elevation, this project is going to connect to those projects so that we have that continuous line of flood defense for buildings that are more infill development in the future floodplain, if it's like we have to cross this policy question with dbe and the city and the capital planning committee, if we're building coastal flood defenses, is there a need for those individual

infill buildings to then flood proof their ground floors? probably not, but that's a it's a good policy question and we'll raise it with dbe and the capital planning committee. okay. thank you. i think that's it. thank you. thank you, commissioner baldauf. i want to know how we are, because we're going to run out of time here, signal our concern, lawrence. particularly, i think that the city suggested changes are ones that i think would be wise for us as a commission to be supportive of. i'm a little confused about the independent measures. is that, like that there's a less expensive way to

potentially raise the ferry building. i i didn't completely understand what the independent measures were, so, the plan itself is quite complicated. if you go actually go online and look at the documentation here, there are many alternatives. there are many technical appendices, and the at the highest level, the independent measures were ways of getting environmental clearance on things that potentially could be added to the plan. but we didn't yet have a decision from the army corps as to whether or not they would agree to add those things. and let me give a few examples that i think you're pointing to. so one is right now the ferry building is over water , we're going to have to elevate the ferry building, to do that work, we'll have to do a coffer dam de-water under the ferry building, do improvements to the substructure, which has never been seismically upgraded, and

prep all of that to be elevated, we think it's probably better at that point to build a basement under the ferry building rather than to let the water back in. that's one of the independent measures that you're pointing to , and the city has, has said that we think that that's a good idea. another example is the area from pier 27 to pier 35, this is right in the most intact portion of the historic district. there's just a great collection of piers in that area right now. the draft plan proposes elevating the ferry building and rebuilding the wharves up at a higher elevation, up to pier 27 and then north of that area, to go with more of a flood proofing scheme and leaving everything at current elevation. one of the city's comments is that's right in the heart of this intact

segment of the historic district act. let's consider extending that treatment on up to pier 35. so that's another sort of independent measure for consideration. so i guess i want to be supportive. i feel like a decision whether you keep the ferry building half over water or add a basement is a very significant thing that we could spend hours talking about. are we, by supporting this as an independent measure? just saying, sure. go ahead and put a basement in, or is there going to be another, moment to have this conversation we're just providing? no, no, i meant but but, but but i can jump in really fast and just say that there will be multiple other approval actions that would need to happen for that. one of which, of course, would be further work on the programmatic

agreement, which then lays out a programmatic treatment plan approach, which you could request to have come to this body for a review. and then there'll also be a certificate of appropriateness in the future. we'll also be doing a sequel review on this. so many. yeah. so the short answer is there's multiple other times where this would be figured out. it's really to get this level of environmental clearance for those potential options at this time. thank you. are there any other comments from the commission? if not commissioners, we can can conclude this item and possibly squeeze in item seven for case number 2024. hyphen 000929 pta for the property at two new montgomery street. this is a major permit to alter. well, if you act quickly, we might. you have seven minutes here. i want to speak good afternoon, commissioners jonathan beamer,

department staff. the item before you is a request for a major permit to alter for the project at two new montgomery street, historically and currently known as the palace hotel. as proposed, the project seeks to replace the neon tubing of the two rooftop signs with an led product intended to simulate the quality of light that actual neon provides. other work is confined to associated rooftop mechanical equipment to accommodate this conversion. no changes to the 1999 building or the landmark garden courtyard are proposed. the general base or framing of the rooftop sign appears to date to 1954, at which time they were first installed in red sheraton palace. this was altered in 1995 to the current iteration of the signs, which simply reads the palace. we are not certain whether the existing tubing dates to 54 or 95, as the letters for the word the were likely shifted over from the sheraton lettering. this was notable change either way, but staff readily, readily acknowledges the iconic nature of these signs and that they are character defining features of the overall site, i'm going to

skip a little bit of this, in our professional capacity, staff, do not call for a specific position. proposals are submitted for review and staff then assesses them based upon the relevant provisions of the planning code and accordingly provides a recommendation. in this case, these provisions broadly pertain to article 11 and the secretary of the interior standards for rehabilitation, which provide for replacement of historic materials in certain contexts. the specifics in this instance are significant. the subject signs have been previously been modified. the neon tubing has deteriorated and been nonfunctional for approximately five years, and there will be no changes to the signs other than those in materiality and method of illumination, which are obviously meaningful ones. the proposed led product is designed with the intent to mimic the nature of warmth and light that neon creates, and when elevated atop a nine story structure, the distinction as viewed from the public right of way, will become increasingly lessened. no proposal for restoration has been submitted. as noted in your packets, staff do not believe

that this would set a precedent for future neon replacement and maintain the belief that at this time, even the best of simulated led products is insufficient for replacement of neon at ground or lower levels. today's recommendation comes down to the specific parameters detailed in our analysis within the last several days, and as of this morning, the department has received approximately 211 letters of opposition from a wide range of voices. each was appreciated and all called for retention of the neon lettering, variably expressing doubt about the proposed led replacement from a visual sustainability and or functional perspective. it was rewarding to hear from so many boosters of the city and its history with all that said, and with a decision made far from lightly, the department's position remains consistent. given the particulars of this case, staff recommends approval with conditions and i had in here. we look forward to today's discussion. so hopefully we can have some. this concludes my presentation. sponsors here and

we have members of the public project sponsor. you have five minutes if you need it. i would suggest possibly keeping it shorter than you had originally planned. just to let you know that more likely than not, we will continue this agenda item. but we'd like to hear what i'm charlie stroud, president of aero sign company in oakland, and we are proposing the led replacement, some of the examples that we were showing here just because primarily because of the how difficult this sign is to access and to service with neon when you're servicing neon, you basically have to put the transformers inside the letters and you have to get to those letters. and it's a safety concern. and in the past, this sign has been serviced with scaffolding. every

time a letter or something would go out, a scaffolding would have to be erected and that would delay the just replacing the, you know, correcting the problem with led. we would locate everything, all the power, all the transformers or power supplies would be located at the base of the sign, and the amplifiers. this is an example of the product we're proposing. if you could keep going, it's the. with them, we've done several retrofits. we in the city we've done, excuse me, several retrofits to led. there's been, can you go to the next here? keep going. this is the palace, which was a sign we rebuilt to match the previous sign and used a kind of a warm white led illumination. and it's very difficult to tell the difference if it's done correctly. united airlines was

going to remove their sign because of the service aspect and the, because of the public outcry. and the people love the sign, it was decided to replace it with the led illuminated letters. and so we retrofitted the united airlines and it's proven to be much more reliable. i think this is a is a good example of the situation that the palace has, where the letters are at the edge of a building and very difficult to access and service when it's needed, and we did that. i think it was about back in 2010, having had any led failure whatsoever. we have a replaced power supplies which are accessible at the at the base of the sign. i only use this example we did this years ago, but it is a huge sign in hollywood and it has yet to have a service called just one power supply. after all that time. there's two 30 foot tall w at the rooftop above a pool and go to the next one. this is the

same essentially the same, approach. target approached us. they wanted a neon looking sign for the city center in downtown san francisco. we matched the same construction method. and i think overall, it still has the impact. or it appears to be neon for most people viewing the sign . i included ghirardelli just because even though it's not neon, it's bulbs. we did this about about two and a half years ago, and we rebuilt the letters to an exact match of what was there previously, bulb spacing and everything. and these are all color changing leds, similar to what in the sense we would have programable color changing leds for the new display. the one thing that that i didn't mention when we're working on the sign, we would essentially keep, all of the, the metal

would be in place. we would just clean the, the rust stains that are on the sign and the outline of the neon. we did a very detailed survey to replicate the exact spacing of the tubing, to try and move that forward. and that's that last, that one right there. i'm sorry. that's an example of the product that we're proposing, which you see right here as well. thank you. great. if that concludes project sponsors presentation, actually i'm nikki, i'm the applicant. i also work for arrow sign company . i wanted to reiterate that we would be following the same patterns of the original letters as all those components would stay exactly the same, and we would keep the integrity and the visual integrity of the sign, as such, and as close to possible, as close to original as possible . thank you. okay. if that

concludes project sponsors presentation, we should open up public comment. members of the public, this is your opportunity to address the commission on this item through the chair will limit to two. yes. if you could use less, that would be better. thank you. commissioners woody labounty from san francisco heritage, i think you should retain the neon. and i think this is a materiality issue you would face in any building, yes. i mean, nothing against the product of the sign, producers, but, you know, vinyl lasts longer than wood windows two. but we're talking about a very important structure that deserves better. and the neon should be retained. and i'm going to cede my time quickly. good afternoon, commissioners, and thanks for the opportunity for comment, my name is al barna, and i am a co-founder of a small nonprofit organization called san francisco neon. and our mission statement is to save

san francisco's rich commercial neon heritage. we do this through neon education, restoration and preservation. we publish books, conduct walking tours, and make presentations that celebrate the city's colorful neon landscape. some of san francisco's most iconic and historic neon signs are the two rooftop signs on the palace hotel. these signs of grace at downtown skyline for over 75 years, they joined the port of san francisco, the hills brothers coffee, and the huntington and clift hotels as the last of the city's spectacular neon, rooftop neon signs. it's our opinion that approving the plan to convert the palace hotel neon signs to an led lighting system would be a poor decision on several fronts. this misguided decision to alter the signs will compromise their integrity, as well as their historic and artistic value. the harsh, intense and one directional light produced by leds can never compare to the fully directional warm glow generated by an electrical current illuminating a glass tube filled with a noble gas like neon or argon. the fact

that the letters on the sign have a porcelain enamel finish is yet another reason to preserve these signs. with neon lighting, the white porcelain letter forms further enhance the unique glow and reflective qualities produced by neon light. in closing, from an environmental standpoint, all neon sign materials can be reused and recycled, as opposed to the cheap petroleum based plastics used in manufacturing led products used in the commercial sign industry. this means that led products fail much sooner than neon products and occupy landfills for an indefinite, but extremely long period of time. there are no recycling programs designed for handling led waste, so we sincerely hope that this this commission will accord the palace hotel neon signs the same type of landmark protections that might be afforded to the actual palace hotel building. by recognizing the signs intrinsic value to the building and surrounding cityscape. thank you. thank you very much, we're going to keep going until we get kicked out. so but if we could move along swiftly, we might get

through this item. hey there. my name is john law, and i'm an electrical sign contractor working mostly on exterior neon signage. i began working for sign companies in 1978, in a variety of capacities, including design, fabric, surveying, permitting finally becoming a neon sign hanger, which is an installer, crane operator, welder, etc. in 1984, at some point over the last 40 years, i've worked on most of the large display exposed neon signs in the bay area. i started my contracting company, central science services, in 1992, specializing in installing and servicing electrical signage, neon signage. around 1989, i worked for american neon sign company out of oakland and was on the crew that spent a couple of weeks or a week or so working on the sheraton letters, removing them from the existing, a-frame, platform structure and salvaging the letters t, h, and e, which were reinstalled in the current, configuration, these

porcelain enamel letters were the cadillacs of signage of the time that they were built. 1950s. the signs were built for the ages, and although almost 40 years old at the time, i worked on them. they are. they were in excellent shape, and they probably still are from everything i've seen in photographs i've seen. and the porcelain enamel, letters which were built to last, i spent over four decades designing and fabricating, but mostly installing and servicing signs. and, along with john lieb of superstructures contractors, i installed a large array of philips led lighting fixtures on the crown of the tribune tower in downtown oakland, illuminating the entire top of the tower. the multicolored, the same type of, of lighting technology that we're talking about here, led lighting is great for architectural lighting enhancement and all that sort of thing, but but, it absolutely is not appropriate for an old personal enamel sign, that was built and designed for neon

units to, to illuminate it, i'm qualified to speak on the subject at hand. led lighting as a secondary architectural enhancement. lighting, can be useful. with that said, thank you sir. okay. one more thing, sir. that is your time. all right. good afternoon, commissioners, my name is gary parks, and i don't have al or or john's credentials or experience, but i do work on historic signs. i drew the patterns for the neon on the restoration of the strand theater sign on market street, and i am currently involved in restoring the grand lake theater rooftop sign, which is a light bulb sign. incandescent. we are using some led bulbs. we're using the original color caps on them for authenticity and color, and it's working out quite right, but i do want to advocate putting real neon back onto the palace hotel signs, and i just want to read a little bit about

my personal experience in seeing the signs out there in the wild, the ones that are led, i've seen the led tubing fail far more often, and sooner than neon again and again, the pga expenses may drop, but the increased maintenance costs can escalate as leds fail often swallowing any benefit of reduction in power cost. this is from people clients that i've talked to, all plastics decay in sunlight. i also do a lot of application of textured vinyl on windows and things like that, sometimes to simulate stained glass and some of them have been tested and they last a while, but they eventually do decay. all petroleum products do, glass does not, i've watched led signs which took the place of neon in some cases even fail within weeks of installation, even when no rain occurred. this has been the case of the famous emo villas barbecue sign in hayward. just as one example, one letter was out in one week and there

was no rain, there are other issues. sometimes as the manufacturers of neon, i know and you guys know quality does differ depending on who you use to supply the products. some vendors don't stand behind their products, others do. you have to be careful. but, for that nice historic glow, i would still, above all, recommend saving neon. thank you very much. thank you. hello, i'm just a local guy who is a photographer. i shoot a lot of. i shoot digital for my work, but i shoot film for my passion and as an artist, the glow of neon light. i wish that we could have had some neon here to show you. i know that they talked about the difference being up close or are away from it. the quality of light. as a historical preservation group, i think, preserve it with neon is the is the only way to go. i mean, that's preservation, right? it's not really preservation when you put in led lights, and the quality of it is

amazing. i was just this past weekend was the polycon polaroid nerd conference of people from all over the country, mostly, and the world. and one of the prompts in it was neon. at night . and that that prompt was photographed so many times all over the city, actually, across the hall, across the street from the palace, is a is a parking garage with amazing neon signs. you should just look at it and just you can get close up to it and just feel the feel the warmth and the glow of the neon, which is just something you don't get with other lighting. and i think as a preservation group, you should, try to keep that. and especially in san francisco, we have a lot of good neon in the city, and other cities have lost it over time. there was a movie that was shown recently at the roxy talking, which has a beautiful sign, talking about some other cities that lost the neon. and when they lose it, it often doesn't come back. and it's something that is like these others have said. it's something that does work very well as a technology. and it's also good for tourism, which brings in a lot of money to the city. and the glow of it is just, is just perfect. so that's all i got to say. thank

you. hi, my name is james tyler. i'm the director of engineering for the palace hotel. i just want to share with you my experience with neon and led. sir, you work for the palace hotel. so you sort of have a. oh, i conflict with a financial interest in this. okay, okay. thank you very much, last call for public comment. yeah, sure. hi. i'm tim brown with arrow sign company. i just wanted to say that, you know, we've been in the business 73 years. are you the sign company that's doing this? yeah. you also have a conflict. okay you're the applicant. yeah. okay. was the five minutes last call for public comment for those without a conflict of interest. okay. with that? public comment is closed. commissioners in this matter is now before you commissioners would, is there a motion to continue this item? motion to continue the second. and i would imagine to the next

hearing on april 3rd. correct. very good commissioners on that motion. mr. zuma, it's an important note. as the assigned planner, i am on vacation that week, it is possible for rich or other staff to represent it. well, that's fine. we can cover him. okay. i just wanted to know. i will not be here and i will not be checking my inbox that week. okay. there's a motion that has been seconded to continue to april 3rd. on that motion, commissioner baldauf, i. commissioner campbell. yes. commissioner. vergara. yes. commissioner wright. yes. commissioner. foley i. commissioner warren. yes commissioner. president. matsuda. yes. so move. commissioners. that motion passes unanimously 7 to 0 and concludes. this concludes our today commission. thank you