for that we are joined by andy walden, vice president of research.ve following your journey, by the way, from home to ice to the whole thing. welcome. it's good to see you again. >> good to see you. >> what i ponder when i think about this is if when the economy weakens and rates fall can homeowners start to tap this more vigorously? >> i absolutely think that's a possibility and there are a couple of ways we do it. we've seen 30-year rates start to ease over the last month or so and the home equity lines of credit and as the fed starts to ease late next year you could see it become more affordable to utilize that equity. >> how expensive is it now? >> they're typically quite up there in terms of the borrowing rates. >> if you look at the database, it says the average rate in september was 9.3%. >> wow. >> and it went up three percentage points from the same time last year and the highest since we started collecting the data and it's become considerably more expensive and prime tied to the fed funds rate and as the fed put pressure on the broader eco