ankur: interestingly, in the u.s. this quarter half of -- half of engagement rings have labradoodle centers. -- lab grown centers. they legitimized it and it's become an explosion. partly due to price. they are 90% cheaper than the natural equivalent. matt: and if i brought you two two caret rings, one was lab grown and the other was mined, would you be able to tell the difference? ankur: no jeweler can, they are chemically, physically, optically identical. only laboratories can. one has small traces of nitrogen, the other does not. to the naked eye, there's no way to tell the difference. matt: what's the sales pitch for a real diamond, then? i would i pay 10 times for something that can't be told apart from the lab grown? ankur: it's tough. that's why market share is changing the way that it is. in the next five years, 80% will be lab grown. if you are harry winston, tiffany, that end of the market will still go with natural, because the brand is super important. matt: well, as far as they know, right? could be lab g