and that's because in the killing unit trials, einsatzgruppen in particular, and also their attempts at trying order police battalions earlier that almost succeeded. they knew who the officers were. they didn't know who the men were. and the officer lied for one another here had the roster of the battalion and they interviewed, interrogated 210 men, most of them rank and they had no interest in covering their officers. they gave the most graphic, horrific, horrifying descriptions of what they had done. they had never seen anything. it and the oral histories that these trial contained. so i went to hamburg and that opened ability to read through 30 volumes of testimonies by 210 men that we simply had never seen any kind collection to get into the minds of the grassroots killers, the people at the very bottom that didn't need written records were so extraordinary about how you how you then look at these groups of men is that you you start to divide them into categories of the of the enthusiastic killers of the people who don't try and get excused but don't really go out of their way to