we're going to talk now to kevin jones who's the labour mp for nonh jones who's the labour mp for north durham. and of course was a defence minister in gordon brown's government. kevin, morning to you. good morning, as a man who's got his finger on the pulse on defence issues, is this good news? >> no, it's what we've come to expect from grant shapps. most shapps more spin and bull. frankly, the defendant, you know, they say they're putting the, nation on a war footing. defence expenditure next year goes down. if you take out the 500 million that is dedicated for ukraine. and that was confirmed by the finance director, who sat next to the secretary of state at the defence select committee a few weeks ago. >> so the i mean, they're talking aren't they, kevin? i mean about massive increase in armaments and ammunition to replace the stuff that's being sent to ukraine, but but it on papen sent to ukraine, but but it on paper, it's a huge increase. >> andrew. it's for the birds. this i mean the if backbencher tory mps have swallowed this one, they're very gullible , one, they're very gullibl