what he's saying about jack smith and this type of probe.e a look. >> they're breaking every law to persecute us. it's been one witch hunt and phony investigation after another. these are ridiculous indictments. the single greatest witch hunt of all time. it's all run by the doj. it's crooked stuff. they're crooked people. deranged jack smith. they had no -- i got four indictments. >> is he right or wrong? >> i mean, the way i see it, if these were his personal -- personal documents and -- or he's allowed to have these by the pra, why would you need to ask questions about video footage? why would you possibly move the documents when they are coming to retrieve them? to me it just doesn't make any sense. on top of that, why would you put two lower level employees in the position they're in if you did nothing wrong and these are your own -- these are your personal documents? >> so you're saying that in the way that he acted, trying to hide, and the people that he brought into it, you think you observed part of a coverup? >> i -- i -- i think i

okay, it's a couple of weeks apart, jack smith and trump.t we are very likely to see the -- case then begin before the fall? or could the judge still do other things? >> the judge still could do other things. it's, and i think with this particular judge, it is pretty hard to predict where she comes out. my guess is they're -- betting that she goes with the trump proposed dayton with the smith proposed state. it's going to depend on her calendar. but again, what surprises me most about this is that, it's what it tells us i think that jacks mitt is saying, there ain't no way i'm getting to this election case before the election. >> fascinating. and again, it's been a flurry of filings. because this leading candidate for the republican nomination is also a defendant in several different jurisdictions. david, i'm going to tell you this. and i'm not just saying this because of our history. we appreciate your arguments, and your counter arguments. >> when we come back, -- choice, and your rights. stay with us. -- choice, and your rights. stay with

so i can see jack smith trying to do that. but just remember, he has to be thinking it is the start date unconcerned about. and, if you just, i did not do math in public, -- >> neither do i. i try i try not to. >> it is just not, it is just not looking good. that is all assuming that the supreme court does not do things to delay the case further, and there are various outcomes that it could. >> right, i'm operating in best- case mario here. >> yeah, but that, is you know, when you put your mind in your head in jack smith's thinking, he has -- not best-case an area, so he is thinking you know what, i have a very strong case in the classified documents case, i mean he has to be thinking this has jury appeal, it is not just the retention of classified documents, it is two forms of obstruction, by all accounts it looks like an incredibly strong case. we still have not heard any defense from the former president that passes the straight face test. honestly we will see what happens at trial. so he seems to be thinking okay let's see

feet jack smith drag his feet. you got to remember i wasn't part of this case during the investigative phases. they could have brought this indictment much earlier. they didn't at the time we had mar-a-lago, which was going very fast that's a lot of activity. january 6, which was sitting there pretty much at a standstill. all the sudden, he brings his snap indictment and all of a sudden the next few weeks realize, oh, shoot, i forgot to interview a whole bunch of witnesses. the timing of the indictment is something that's control. another thing >> all right. we'll leave it there doj are >> confusion. like that? >> well, we'll leave it there with the two of you on that one. does that conversation i think it doesn't matter. it's doj >> i think that's a longer conversation. we'll have to continue another de elie, mr.. tim parlatore. thank you both very much >> thank you. >> and next, the dual at the border, the rhetoric, the promises, and biden's dare her to donald trump standby >> my best reputation is ruined. >> it'

i find it unimaginable that jack smith had any knowledge that mr. mueller was going to come forward with this because i know that that is the last thing he wants. and he has a strong stance against attaining juries. i also, in my own mind, as an attorney, have some questions about his lawyer was thinking in letting him, in letting him go on with this. on the other hand, there is significant factual support for the evidence that he laid out. and they can prove almost everything he talked about without him. he adds color, significant, but keep in mind they have a lot of this stuff on video. they have testimony from other people who participated in mar- a-lago in terms of assisting mr. de la vega and some of the obstruction activity. i don't think it is not harmful but it is highly unusual and i am sure that we will see mr. butler again on tv. you have said that if donald trump doesn't win, he is going to jail. you are confident that these trials are actually going to happen? >> well, i am confident that it will happen at some point if he is not the el

jack smith is saying, wait a minute.hese not your own personal property, this is some of the most sensitive military information, reportedly including even nuclear secrets. >> classify, exactly. news book reports that jack smith is set to fire language coded briefs, if you well. so the public cannot learn the names of the witnesses for fear they could be put in harm's way. could judge cannon decide she wants the names unredacted. >> reporter: ciardi has decided and that is when jack smith went nuclear. we don't see him making any kind of statements. his expression in the courtroom when the judge was thinking about making the names public, he was apocalyptic. he says what we all know that when people were trying to hold trump accountable and their names were made public. terrible things happen to them. there is 24 witnesses who trump wants to hold -- wants to have the whole world know. jack said, it is just wrong, even on the lot but even on the cases the judge sites to support her rolling don't say what she says they say

jack smith of course is not a principal officer.pointed if congress by law vests in the head of the cabinet department the power to appoint a senior officer. congress has passed no law vesting the attorney general the power to appoint a special counsel like jack smith. congress has a vested power to appointed inferior officers and the secretaries of energy, education, transportation and hhs it has not done so with the justice department when therefore jack smith appointment is illegal and unconstitutional. every single thing he has done since he was appointed a year end a half ago is illegal, no and void. >> i want the american people to understand your background. you used to serve as a top legal advisor to a former attorney general of the united states you and i worked with the office of legal counsel which is considered that legal constitutional brain trust of the federal government. you are not coming out of left field you are looking at the constitution, you are looking at the statutes and saying this is an illegal unconstituti

jack smith mean for trump? >> well, erin, what you're seeing is prosecutors trying to find a way to box out the former president and his legal team. because as you as you noted, what they're trying to do is delay this to the point where it makes it impossible for tanya chutkan and the dc trial to find find room on the calendar. they know that obviously, given the fact that this that the that the immunity question is now before the supreme court we anticipate that what they're going to do is look for something that will make sure that that the dc judge doesn't have room on the calendar between now and november to sketch chilling new trial. and so what jack smith is doing here in making this request is trying to at least have the judge in in in florida put a put on the calendar a date of july 8th. now, we don't know whether she'll go for this. there are a lot of complicated issues because this has to do with classified info aileen cannon, the judge, there has pretty much been been helpful with the former presiden

smith gets his way and gets this july 8th start so if jack smith gets a july 8 start, we do probably get a verdict before the election. and so there are two routes. one is based on jack smith's own estimation, you'd probably get the end of trial around august 19, trump's estimation is it's going to take a longer period of time for the trial so that you get a verdict and the end of trial around september 16th. but both of those, uh, well, before both the alliance, while before the election, that's right. so that's why the july 8 and whether or not the judge cannon goes with the justice department is key to that outcome. >> so ben doesn't mean do you think there's any coincidence that smith makes this move a day after the supreme court said it would hear arguments on trump's immunity while he's in office. and they said that they're going to take that up and that means that likely will not get a verdict by election day in any scenario. >> it does mean that it means the florida case is the one that can move forward. the quickest. >> i >> don't think it's an accident, but i think this hea

jack smith of course is not a principal officer.rs can be appointed if congress by law vests in the head of the cabinet department the power to appoint a senior officer. congress has passed no law vesting the attorney general the power to appoint a special counsel like jack smith. congress has a vested power to appointed inferior officers and the secretaries of energy, education, transportation and hhs it has not done so with the justice department when therefore jack smith appointment is illegal and unconstitutional. every single thing he has done since he was appointed a year end a half ago is illegal, no and void. >> i want the american people to understand your background. you used to serve as a top legal advisor to a former attorney general of the united states you and i worked with the office of legal counsel which is considered that legal constitutional brain trust of the federal government. you are not coming out of left field you are looking at the constitution, you are looking at the statutes and saying this is an illegal

jack smith of course is not a principal officer.pointed if congress by vests in the head of the cabinet department the power to appoint a senior officer. congress has passed no law vesting the attorney general the power to appoint a special counsel like jack smith. congress has a vested power to appointed inferior officers and the secretaries of energy, education, transportation and hhs it has not done so with the justice department when therefore jack smith appointment is illegal and unconstitutional. every single thing he has done since he was appointed a year end a half ago is illegal, no and void. >> i want the american people to understand your background. you used to serve as a top legal advisor to a former attorney general of the united states you and i worked with the office of legal counsel which is considered that legal constitutional brain trust of the federal government. you are not coming out of left field you are looking at the constitution, you are looking at the statutes and saying this is an illegal unconstitutional

jack smith won a conviction. donald was a likely buys presidential contender in 2016 and that was reversed in 2016 eight-zero. jack smith is a political scud missile who sent in to take out presidential contenders like he did with bob mcdonald. on the presidential immunity argument there is president in the civil context. the president of the united states is a -- is immune from civil prosecution or the perimeter of his official acts under that nixon case we discussed 40 years ago. if federal judges are immune from criminal prosecution absolutely immune from criminal prosecution, and so are members of congress, why wanted the president of the united it would destroy our country. another example besides biden and riley is president obama and his legal advisor, now federal circuit judge david baron on the first circuit court of appeals in bostodavid baron advised president obama it was lawful for obama to order an extra traditional drone strike on two american citizens including a minor. if obama is not immune from

but jack smith come i don't think there is any better.and get iowa, and it goes before a campaigning judge. the whole thing is a rigged deal. the public understands it. i'm lucky that i'm able to explain it to the public because if you were not able to explain it, the public wouldn't know. they would believe what they see. so i don't want to win this way. look, i want to win based on my policies are better. we will cut taxes, get interest rates down, buy homes again. you can't buy a home today because the interest rates are so high. i want to win unsafe borders and stop wars, stop the war in ukraine with russia. i want to stop what is happening in israel. israel would never be attacked if i were president. ukraine would never ever be attacked if i was president. you would not have had inflation. inflation was caused by high energy prices. i would have kept them down easily. and probably maybe caused were with ukraine because putin became rich all of a sudden. it went up so much and i watch president biden talking about putin. putin became

jack smith has moved expeditiously. so trump is doing what any defendant would do in that case, but he'd run out of time if garland had gotten off the dime. that's the bottom line. what else? i love this part of the show, you know, i do if people don't vote third party, this cycle, they never will. i have to say, eric in god if i'm talking about the 2028 election, i'm not talking about third-party candidacies. if this cycle doesn't at least produce a legitimate three-way or three-way plus contest where somebody gets on the debate stage, right? allah? ross perot, then i to give up, i to give up because this, according to all the data is the cycle where people are yearning. gallup says a plurality or independence than not publicans or democrats. people want a choice. >> give it to them. one more. if i've got time not closing the border will cost biden the election. he cannot win private account. i got to say that poll today, the combination of the gallup data and mohammad yunus, the editor in chief, dissected it for us. a

jack smith's investigators sought you out. how many times did you think you've have you talked to investigators now? >> a probably between 4.5 times. >> can we talk about what started all of this, which is the boxes, i mean, trump was clearly obsessed with these boxes at one point in the indictment, someone refers to them as his beautiful mind paper. >> what >> was known among the employees about about why he cared about these boxes so much for you guys. >> did you talk about them? >> i never talked about them. i really didn't even know what was going on until the investigation. i started reading in the news, employees were getting interviewed the indictment to june 3. he goes back home. he went back home. we had moved a bunch of stuff, the belongings, everything. >> that's when he's going from spinning his time in palm beach to spending his time in bedminster, new jersey that is correct >> so we are there to assist with luggage, anything that needs to go to the plane. so in since i ran the car service, i had employees come to

jack smith, i don't think is any better. leticia james is terrible.paigned on i will get trump, i will get trump and then it goes before a trump hatingthd deal. the public understands it. i'm lucky i'm able to explain it to the public because if you weren't able to elax>ic wouldn'd believe what they see. so i don't want to win this way. look, i want to win based on my policies are to cut taxes, we're going to get interest rates down and you'll be able to buy homes again. you can't buy a home today, the interest rate is soi want to wi. i want to stop the war in ukraine with russia. i want to stop what's happening in israel.e been attacked if i were president. ukraine would never have ever been attacked if i was president. you wouldn't have had inflationh energy prices. i had low energy prices and kept them there, very easily. and probably may be caused t war with ukraine because putin became rich all of a sudden, it went up so much. i watched president biden talking about putin. putin became very rich because at $100 a barrel, he's got so much money to

jack smith is now suggesting that they move the start date for that trial in the classified documents case down in mar-a-lago, a move that comes just one day after the justices slam the brakes on the case against trump and washington for his efforts to overturn the 2020 election results late this evening, the special counsel's office filed this new motion that you're seeing here, asking for donald trump and two of his co-defendants to stand trial beginning july the 8th one other co-defendant, a little bit after that, the special counsel's team wants to get basically at least one case heard before election day in november. trump's legal team responded with a now familiar retort saying that a fair trial cannot be held until after the 2024 presidential election is concluded. i'm quoting them but they did offer another date this year and the judge who has been mired in some controversy in this case, judge aileen cannon is expected to hash it out in a >> hearing tomorrow in florida that could be critical to the future of the classified documents case i'm joined tonight by an attorney who u

jack smith wants it sooner. the defense later. it says it won't be fair unless it's much later as an after the election and john keynes election year journey all over the map, taking him to pennsylvania tonight to see how seniors view a race between the two oldest presidential candidates ever good evening. thanks for joining us. we begin tonight, keeping them honest with immigration, the issue americans now called their top concern according to recent polling. today, president biden and former president trump made dueling visits. the texas southern border, biden to brownsville, trump to eagle pass, to cities about 300 miles apart. two candidates who each in his own way has failed to fill fix a broken and severely overburdened border security and asylum system. president biden and many believed by omission, by not making the problem enough of a priority until recently, even after a year of increasing numbers of people crossing the border and rising border encounters which set new records and don't trump by commission. he's actively

so if that holds true, jack smith would then just be starting. let's say we get that vision and it goes against president trump's claims. now, the case goes, starts moving forward again. you have about another three months of pretrial machinations before that thing could finally get in front of a jury. so that puts him with something else to do in july and he's now trying to squeeze mar-lago in there. >> well, he is saying jack, they're saying july 8th, the trump team says they want to ask the election, but they're also saying, well, also maybe august 12, is it what is the tactical advantage to that date >> so like jack smith, they're asking for the world they wanted after the election. they know they're not going to get that. they asked for that once before earlier in this case, and that was rejected. so now they're saying if you're going to put it on before, let's have it start on august 12th. coincidentally, august is the month that the dc case could possibly if everything goes right for jack smith, could possibly get on the calendar, but not

>> i think what jack smith is motivated by is not november. i think it's by june which is the end of the supreme court's term. and i think all he's thinking about is making sure that there's no ambiguity whatsoever about what the supreme court said. so the one thing we know that is that by the end of june, the supreme court will have rolled one way or another on this executive immunity claim and this trial is set for one to proposed date is one week after the close of the immunity thing. >> we always talk about it in the realm of the election interference case. but trump's also claiming that in the classified documents case and you heard jim trusty saying there that he thinks he can have an argument on part of it, but it's also the willful retention in the obstruction of the efforts to investigate to try to get them back. that is also at play here and also trump was not an office. can argue presidential immunity if he was two years out of the office. >> yeah, absolutely. so like even under the nixon versus fitzgerald case for says than the lan

so how does jack smith get this? can he do a pretrial ruling on appeal? normally you can in a criminal case. can you get a written saying 11th circuit help me, the judge is wrong on the law as evidence by her proposed scenarios, we need you to intervene so she doesn't give the wrong instruction, and that's what people need to understand. jury instructions, these are instructions given to jurors to tell them what the law is. but if her law is wrong going in, the jury is screwed. they have no options left if they're being told by the judge to apply the wrong law. >> and the framing in these two binary situations seems a bit premature, certainly out of left field. >> not even premature, it's just flawed, it's wrong, and then it's premature as well. >> carroll lenning, thank you so much. everyone else stick around. when we come back, donald trump may have finally run out of options realizing he may have to raise half a billion dollars somehow in the next six days. the reality of this deadline is finally sinking in and it is freaking him out. raging at the jud

>> there is no way that jack smith is going to succeed to the jury instructions.head, trump wins, tells, his losing. there is no way he will let that happen. the problem is judge cannon did not issue an order here of jury instructions. just said parties, i want you to engage in the following scenarios. it's loose enough that i think it's not enough for jack smith to go directly to the 11th circuit yet. what will happen is jack smith is going to push back and say hey, what you are doing here is really erroneous. your interpretation under the presidential records act is wrong and you need to think about this again. rethink what you just did. if she won't, we will take the extraordinary step. i do think the 11th circuit going to reverse, repudiate. dropped the case entirely. >> you are there in palm beach. what are you hearing from folks about judge cannons case in the handling of donald trump? >> people think it's appalling, what has been happening. they're very anti-cannon. trump's biggest supporters silent about it or they want cannon to be appointed to the u.s. s

but, today they got shut down, at least on one front by the jack smith team about this idea that you within a couple months of an election. obviously, you know a lot about these things. >> sure, the question that judge cannon and her rulings has favored the defense, even her reasoning has gone out of its way to find fault with the government and to side wherever possible with the defense in ways that i think continue to be pretty shocking. remember she's the judge that was reversed twice, before the case was indicted. we do know the trial date, she made various comment saying that she thought that the date that was sought by the government in july was unduly, optimistic. she asked a lot of questions of the defense about not having a trial at all, and certainly not in the lead up of the election. i was surprised she brought up the doj internal rule, because the internal rule of the department down in any way give rise to the defense, they are not enforceable in any court, they are just internal gots to the department. that's something that the judge knows well having worked as a prose

jack smith wants it sooner, the defense later. it says it won't be fair unless it's much later as an after the election. and john king's election year journey all over the map, taking him to pennsylvania tonight to see how seniors view a race between the two oldest presidential candidate it's ever. good evening, thanks for joining us. we begin tonight, keeping them honest with immigration, the issue americans now called their top concern according to recent polling. today, president biden and former president trump made dueling visits. the texas southern border, biden to brownsville, trump to eagle pass to cities about 300 miles apart. two candidates who each in his own way has failed to fix a broken and severely overburdened border security and asylum system. president biden, many believed by omission, by not making the problem enough of a priority until recently, even after a year of increasing numbers of people crossing the border. and rising border encounters which set new records and don't trump by commission. he's actively o

i think that the odds favor jack smith on the outcome. but, you know, the supreme court could very well decide that it agrees with the result but not the rationale of the d.c. circuit. there's a lot of unanswered questions on presidential immunity that may have given justices discomfort. they may want to see some greater delineation of lines trying to show when a president does have immunity in future cases. there are members of this court who take a very robust view of executive power and privilege. once they make that decision, it will return the mandate to the trial court. is it possible that they could still hold a trial before the election? yes. but allegations against the court that it's slow walking this case are, as usual, overwrought and undersupported. i mean, the court is actually moving at a much faster pace than it usually does. examples that people have raised in the past are distinguishable as to why the court moved a little faster in those cases. i think we have to take a moment here to understand the weight and the gravit

so i think that jack smith and his team are probably considering it.know that they'll use this particular order to do it. >> she's going to dismiss this case, let him off. >> if she dismissed the case before trial, that would be better because they could appeal that. the worst case is they're in the trial, she grants an acquittal. >> let's talk about this. here it is, this is donald trump's filing to the supreme court. he's trying to make the claim that trump's actions reaching out to state officials and congress and his vice president was based on some extensive evidence of fraud that's apparently secret that he's never shown us before. doesn't he have to show this evidence, and isn't it weird he would also be showing it to clarence thomas whose wife also believes in the big lie and thinks there was fraud? maybe she has the evidence. >> this is recycled from what he's been filing since he was before judge chutkan and the d.c. circuit. everything i did, everything jack smith's indictment charges me with is part of my official acts. of course i can talk

how unusual are these orders and has she put jack smith between a rock and a hard place?re incredibly unusual. she's giving jury instructions without a trial date really putting the cart before the horse. you generally deal with pretrial motions first and jury instructions were later. her instructions are based on this faulty premise that donald trump's designation of records under the presidential records act matters. it doesn't. he is charged with violating the espionage act. the espionage act replies -- applies regardless whether the records he had were categorized as personal or presidential. even if he had designated these as personal records, he is still not authorized. nothing in the presidential records act authorizes a former president to possess classified information. you have this terrible proposed jury instruction to completely confuse the jury. you have her ruling to unseal the identities of witnesses. that's another terrible one. you have her refusal to dismiss outright a challenge that the espionage act is fake which it isn't. donald trump was told repeate

then you have deranged jack smith who's a trump hater and he's going wild.overturned unanimously by the supreme court. went over other people over the years. he's had great failure. he's mean, nasty, unfair. and the judges on these cases, they're all trump haters other than one or two that can be fair. look at new york what's happened. these people have tremendous hatred. you can't do this to a president. i'm not talking about me. i'm talking about in the future. a president has to be free. a president has to be if the president does a good job. i did some people would say a great job. >> the white house has not had the coordination with the doj on prosecutions regarding donald trump. this is separate. it's special counsel. the special counsel decided to bring charges. in terms of the fani willis stuff, i believe nathan wade testified he was making more money before he started to work for willis down there. back to garrett haake in west palm beach and ken dilanian. also, peter baker. why did he come out with a prepared statement? why this, why going back to

>> i thought jack smith should have done it as soon as she drew the case.on. the government's lawyer, you don't want to appear to have bias against the judge. nonetheless, i thought she had given him plenty of reason to do it. at this point, i think he has no choice. because if he does not ask the 11th circuit to recuse her, she could, for instance, set the case for trial pretty quickly. the time to do it is now. >> joyce vance, perfect person to have -- to talk about what should happen in florida. thank you so much. good night. >> night y'all. >>> we await the first criminal trial of the former u.s. president. do reading. raid all the charges against donald trump for yourselves and make your own decisions and we put all of this together and all of the indictments in the new book with the the trump indictments the historic charging documents with commentary and including helpful notes on the law as well as the many different players involved. >> thanks for joining us for this hour. good night. good night. >>> on this new hour, the threat donald trump poses

jack smith's team said they won't violate that, but how can they say that now? there could be delays because, you know, co-defendant's attorneys are talking september 9th as the absolute earliest. that's in violation of the 60-day rule. >> well, yeah, but it's not just that, there's a federal prosecutor's handbook for dealing with election offenses, and it makes it very clear that federal prosecutors are not supposed to take actions which interfere in elections, particularly election outcomes. jack smith waited, what, two years, two years to actually file this, these indictments, long after he had the evidence needed for that and, frankly, right as the campaign season for '24 was starting. so his denials that he's not trying to interfere with the election, i just think they fall flat. elizabeth: yeah. same with, you know, the georgia 2020 case. they waited years to file that too. >> right. elizabeth: let's get your reaction, tom, to cnn's ellie hoenig on the classified documents case going to trial in july or august. watch this. >> jack smith has now concluded i

particular for jack smith. let's start there. i wonder if there was anything revealing or anything you can tell us about the sort of mood in the courtroom as it looks like a lot of these cases are falling by the s wayside, potentially. >>> i'll say the move was interesting, because and a lot of the recent court rooms, we're up with donald trump, he's excited a sort of anger. i think particularly in the asian carroll case in new york. today, in this courtroom, and florida, at one point he was joking with reporters. i think he feels good about where he is right now. at least in that day and that moment. the anxiety, the concern, the uncertainty about the schedule, i think, it is understandable for people to have concern given the stakes and all this. i will say, the court system is not a great linear and predictable animal. it never has a pain and it's not been that for donald trump either. that is part of the uncertainty. i think people will have to roll with the punches little bit as far as the court system can be on a day today,

but, today they got shut down, at least on one front by the jack smith team about this idea that youart a trial within a couple months of an election. obviously, you know a lot about these things. >> sure, the question that judge cannon and her rulings has favored the defense, even her reasoning has gone out of its way to find fault with the government and to side wherever possible with the defense and ways that i think continue to be pretty shocking. remember she's the judge that was reversed twice, before the case was indicted we do know the trial date, she made various comment saying that she thought that the date that was sought by the government in july was unduly, optimistic. she asked a lot of questions of the defense about not having a trial at all, and certainly not in the lead up of the election. i was surprised she brought up the doj internal rule, because the internal rule of the department down in any way give rise to the defense, they are not enforceable in any court, they are just internal gots to the department. that's something that the judge knows well having worked

shortly after jack smith's team submitted their filings, the judge overseeing the case aileen cannonty assistant attorney general harry litman is here and former acting assistant attorney general for national security at the justice department and msnbc legal analyst mary mccord is here. rick is still with me at the table. mary, let me ask you, jack smith's paper tells us most of what we know and from his paper and filings, he seems to be calling bs on all of trump's moves and arguments. is that a fair read? >> i think in legal terms that's what he's doing but using different verbiage and it had to be said. i mean, some of these motions, the motion to dismiss based on presidential immunity is based on an argument that mr. trump while he was president designated all of these classified documents as personal and, therefore, that was within the scope of his official acts that he should have immunity for. so you don't even have to get to the question, says jack smith, of whether a president, a former president is ever immune from criminal prosecution for official acts because it's ludicr

it was not necessary and you will look at the indictment on the jack smith brought.ud boys. in fact, it doesn't make the claim that trump actually instigated the riot. as based upon his planning of this. so what were they waiting for? and i think merrick garland made a historic, historic mistake. >> history will look back one day and see if this, in fact, was a contributing factor in all of this. melissa, jennifer, think you so much. please stick around to help answer this question when we come back. when a conflict of interest actually conflicts of interest? we are talking about the case against d.a. fani willis in georgia, next. s ) at fisher investments we may look like other money managers, but we're different. (other money manager) how so? (fisher investments) we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in our client'' best interest. (fisher investments) so we don't sell any commission-based products. (other money manager) then how do you make money? (fisher investments) we have a simple management fee, structured so we do better when our clients do better. (other money

particular for jack smith. let's start there. i wonder if there was anything revealing or anything you can tell us about the sort of mood in the courtroom as it looks like a lot of these cases are falling by the wayside, potentially. >> i'll say the move was interesting, because and a lot of the recent court rooms, we're up with donald trump, he's excited a sort of anger. i think particularly in the e. jean carroll case in new york. today, in this courtroom, and florida, at one point he was joking with reporters. i think he feels good about where he is right now. at least in that day and that moment. the anxiety, the concern, the uncertainty about the schedule, i think, it is understandable for people to have concern given the stakes and all this. i will say, the court system is not a great linear and predictable animal. it never has a pain and it's not been that for donald trump either. that is part of the uncertainty. i think people will have to roll with the punches little bit as far as the court system can be on a day today,

jack smith said as he is ready july 8th. donald trump's team said they could do august 12th if they have to. it remains to be seen what judge can and will do. it ended around 3:00 this afternoon. >> and donald trump was there. >> donald trump was in the courtroom, jack smith was in the courtroom, neither spoke. something interesting is in the southern district of florida, there are four locations where this trial could be held. it is possible she could move to west palm beach and i say possible because donald trump is commuting 70 miles from palm beach in a motorcade. if there is a trial that lasts ten weeks, it could take five weeks apiece. he could be motorcade eating every single day. >> it still means a case before the election in the case could be adjudicated and done before the election. >> if you add on the ten weeks in the middle of august, this is another important point, middle august, mid-september and october and in another two weeks it could add with a verdict right near the actual election. we have to see what

cannon signaled that jack smith's suggested july 8th trial date would be a no-go because the trial timerame for all the motion work that has to be done would be far too c compressed tt totally makes sense. of course trump's lawyers want this travesty to be postponed until after the election. i have an idea, how about holding off until and unless joe biden is brought up on charges for his own concealment of government records? all right, meanwhile, not a good idea to keep digging when you are already sinking but that's what smith's office did when his associate intimated that the judge wasn't moving quickly enough to which he tersely replied i can assure you that in this building there is a good deal of judicial work going on. oh. now, our reporters david spunt and jake gibb son are reporting that if they had to choose a date for the federal appeal, trump's legal team said they could do august 12th to avoid running right up until the election. of course, if a trial takes, let's say, six weeks, which is what they're projecting, keeping trump in a courtroom, now, that's the ultimate in ele

what does that reflect on the part of jack smith? >> first of all, we don't know that they haven't recovered them. it could be they have determined all of those boxes were returned to mar-a-lago or somewhere else, that they essentially follow trump around wherever he went. i had a conversation with someone on your team tonight about our shared recollection that when trump showed up in new york last year for a deposition in a new york attorney general civil fraud case, he was seen outside trump tower with personal aides carting those very same sorts of bankers boxes. look, there is a reference in the indictment to the fact that carlos de olliva and others shuttled those boxes to mar-a-lago. >> in the back of my mind this is all pure speculation, i should warn everyone at home. that it seems jack smith probably more than anyone else at the department of justice has noods the aprieveiated calender within which he's working. like he built a federal indictment on january 6th made for speed, let's get it done. that is very much up in the a

deranged jack smith. >> they have no legal ground. it's what they did.indictments. >> is he right or wrong? >> i mean, the way i see it if these were his personal documents or he is allowed to have these by the pra, why would you need to ask questions about video footage, why would you possibly move the documents when they were coming to retrieve them? to me it just doesn't make any sense. on top of that, why would you put two lower-level employees in the position they are in if you did nothing wrong and these are your personal documents? >> so you are saying in the way that he acted trying to hide and the people he brought into it, you think you observed part of a cover-up? >> i think it is very possible. from what i saw, the questions, why would they ask about video footage, how long it is deleted for? those are conversations carlos told me he was tasked with finding out prior to walt's arrival on a secret trip. >> how different was that than usual? you describe secret, furtive operations and then while they are talking to the fbi other boxes are being

>> jack smith is not a superhero. this court to get them to speed up the trial, that is not the case. he has nothing beyond his advocacy in that april 25th hearing in order to move this forward. and again, to prevail the supreme court, you need five votes. and this is a conservative 6-3 super majority. and there's a lot going on here. so you're right. i think about the court in a broader contest. this is a big turn for the court. leaving that to the side, the court had enormous cases about the future of the administrative state. and the administrative agencies. there are a number of cases about the post dobbs reproductive rights landscape. we heard one of these cases in the availability of mifepristone. and i think you have to think about all the different parts in this entire docket for this term to understand what might be going on with regard to the trump cases. just hold on with me for a minute. i know abortion has nothing to do with donald trump. >> i'm with you professor. >> but, the court seemed very much to be

so i can see jack smith trying to do that. but just remember, he has to be thinking it is the start date i'm concerned about. and, if you just, i did not do math in public. >> neither do i. i try i try not to. >> it is just not, it is just not looking good. that is all assuming that the supreme court does not do things to delay the case further, and there are various outcomes that it could. >> right, i'm operating in best- case scenario here. >> yeah, but that, is you know, when you put your mind in your head in jack smith's thinking, he has -- not best-case an area, so he is thinking you know what, i have a very strong case in the classified documents case, i mean he has to be thinking this has jury appeal, it is not just the retention of classified documents, it is two forms of obstruction, by all accounts it looks like an incredibly strong case. we still have not heard any defense from the former president that passes the straight face test. honestly we will see what happens at trial. so he needs to be thinking okay let's s

jack smith's case didn't happen overnight. we went through an entire months of the jan. sixth hearings, grand jury testimony, and then finally indict an indictment pretty late in the game. so they knew when they when they when they brought this indictment, that they were gonna be up against it on a timeline and that there were going to be appeals in both interlocutory appeals, which are intermediate appeals that could be immediately taken up to the supreme court and then appeals after the fact after judgments rendered. so it's part of the process the justice system doesn't spin fast. this one in particular, though, given where jack smith's case was when it was filed, is probably moving along faster than most other federal cases. he in philadelphia, we have we have a number of criminal trials. would it be going on for four or five criminal cases that going on? for four or five years in the political corruption room >> all right. jim schultz. thank you very much. i want to go back to joan, who's onset with us, joan, you wanted to weigh in on something? >> i did. do you kno

even some of the members because of jack smith's team and jack smith was in the courtroom today, they react to when people stand up and make different points before the judge. >> now the thing about judge cannon know is she's very hard to read and she doesn't often tip her hand. this is the one of the first hearings where we have seen her really side or at least indicates did she was going to side one way or another and she did follow that with an order, at least on one of these motions shortly after the hearing. >> and is it clear when she's going to decide the trump team's other arguments for dismissal no judges can take however much time they need to make a decision. >> but >> the every time that there is a delay in judge cannon issuing an order on one of these motions. trump is making. that's the longer it goes before everyone can set the table for the trial and to see how that will shape up. and anderson we should add this is two motions where trump is asking to dismiss the case by my count, there are seven more of these that could be argued from both he and his two co-defendants

smith and puts this in july as jack smith has asked for, the florida case, there's nowhere for the dc case to go, but i think what is at the heart of this and trump's team says, well, it shouldn't be about politics, but the trump legal team has less worried about the classified documents case and not necessarily because it's less problematic, but because i think they understand the appearance former white house aides, the former attorney general, the former or the current governor of georgia. all these aids marching in to talk how trump tried to overturn the election is more damaging to his political prospects than even the classified documents. >> all of that. and in a jurisdiction in florida which is much more favorable to him with a much better jury pool in front of a much more trump friendly drag show for all of those reasons, i agree with you. that's what they want. >> jennifer rodgers, elie honig, we'll be watching closely since whale these fun deadlines to wait for. thank you. both for being here on a friday night up next at the white house tonight, president biden made this an

jack smith's team wants it to begin in july. donald trump's team has counted for august, but neither case, it could begin as early as this summer and we could get that date etched at least a little bit in stone shortly. in the meantime, today, a georgia community will gather to say goodbye to a 22 year-old nursing student, laken riley. riley was killed last week while jogging near a lake on the university of georgia campus. the man suspected in her death has been charged with murder in his currently behind bars. he entered the us illegally which has sparked a national debate about border curie. just in elon musk sued open ai and its ceo for breach of contract must says that openai, which runs cheche tbt, diverge from his mission to develop artificial intelligence for the benefit of humanity by cutting a $10 billion deal with microsoft and keeping new coding secret musk cofounded openai in 2015, but left in 2018 is set up his own ai company, openai has not responded to cnn's request for comment. >> so it is lights out for the lun

i think jack smith has adopted a surgical approach.ased on the teams experience that further superseding the indictment is to know one's benefit of that means if and when the case were ever to be tried that we would see some of the things brian butler talks about in the interview come back and make a reappearance at trial including his testimony. >> there is been a fatalist attitude about this because it's unlikely to happen before november but there's a 50% chance that joe biden is the president come the end of november it means this trial could actually happen. i do wonder what you think the timeline is for this given canons and decision to set a date. >> a lot depends on what the supreme court does on immunity. trump has made multiple dismissals and two will be dealt with but presidential immunity is not one of them. depending on what the supreme court does the case could go away or come back to judge cannon to determine, even if he is immune, for acts that are alleged to be official. does the stuff in this indictment count as axwor

i mean, the idea that it's unconstitutional for jack smith to be supervising this case. it's completely justice department employee. we but but all of them i have to be decided before a trial date takes place, and she hasn't said a trial date and this case continues to be on a slow boat to nowhere. >> judge gertner. i mean, judge cannon only denied one to the former president's motions to dismiss charges that typical that she would decide only one will nothing about the way she's handling the case is typical. so these are motions that could have been disposed of quickly these emotions that are not raising issues that are extraordinary and they could have been disposed of it quickly. and what she's done is she's allowing lengthy hearings on motions that really could be just taken care of. and if she does that with respect to the others, then we are talking about a delay. what is interesting about what she said though? is that she's kicking all of this to the trial itself. and the trial would could well be a mess, allowing trump to raise defenses that really no one else wo

what are jack smith's options here? >> well, there is a reason you've never seen anything like it.hink bradley and i have either. last week, bradley was trying to come up with the best yiddish phrase for this and i have sort of 2m words for you. michigan, which is what this is, because the choice that was given by judge cannon to the parties is to ask jack smith, so please draft a jury instructions seeming that the earth is flat and the second one is please draft a jury instruction assuming that the earth is square. so the second m word is mandamus. mandamus is the ability -- it is not an appeal. it is for extraordinary actions by a district court that so clearly violate the law that you can appeal it right then and there. it is a very tough standard, but at this point, what she did today is so nutty, and so against appointed bradley has been making, which is that the 11th circuit has actually already decided this issue and what she has proposed is against what the 11th circuit is already reversed her on, so i really think to the extent that you think that she is engaging in partis

jack smith has proposed july 8th as a trial date to begin. donald trump and his lawyer have proposed august 2nd. i will note that july 8th is during the month of the republican convention, and august is when it's over, and he's probably the nominee. your thoughts. >> exactly. and it's interesting that basically the only cases that -- and they involve money, except for the manhattan d.a.'s case, that have held donald trump accountable involve his pocketbook. the civil fraud case with judge engoron, jean carroll when he was found liable, yes, for sexual assault, which is sexual abuse in new york is sexual assault, and defamation. so those cases. and we don't know the verdict is going to happen in the manhattan d.a.'s case. it's hard to fathom that any one of the nine justices are actually going to rule that trying to overturn the election in several states could be considered an official act. but they took the case. and i can only think they took the case because as a friend of mine said when i said they wouldn't take the case, of course they'r

i could see jack smith trying to do that. just remember he's got to be thinking it's the start date i'm concerned about, and if you just -- i don't do math in public, but i tried to add 88 to the various perm uitations. it's just not looking good. and that's all assuming that the supreme court doesn't do things tosu delay the case further andt could. >> i'm operating best case scenario. >> he's got analysis odds, not best case scenario, so he's thinking, you h know what, i ha a very strong case in the classified documentsg case. i mean he's got to be thinking this has jury appeal. it's not just the retention of the classified documents, it's twoas forms of obstruction. by all accounts it looks like a incredibly strong case. wecr still have not heard any defense from the former president that passes the straight face test. obviously we'll see what happens at trial. he has to be thinking, okay, let's see if we can get that. it'se still an uphill battle because he's before judge cannon, and there are many ways that that case can