joanne freeman a question. clark welsh what really distinguishes the american experiment from every form of government came before? well, actually, part of the answer is in the question, and that is when the nation was launched it was defined as an experiment. that word was used and it was understood that it would not necessarily work. it was understood and actually it's i would have written a lot about the 1790 as part of what fascinates me about the 1790s is the sense that everyone had that one stupid decision on a national level and the whole experiment would tank. so i think the fact that it was understood that unlike at that time at the rest of the world, it was a world of monarchies that the united states was launching experiment that may or may not. and i think that idea and it gets back to some of we've been saying in a variety of different up here that contingency is built in to the process. we don't think it and this relates in a sense to some of what you were just saying, doug i think people forget t

and thank you, doug brinkley, bill brand's joanne freeman and the mentor. our topic today is not a small one. it's the founders and democracy. and, you know, i was thinking about it for days, but then i was thinking about it even more closely as i was looking at listening to the previous conversation with brian lamb and the other historians. and i was taken back to my graduate student days, which now is almost 15 years ago. and i remember one of the things that we always did in grad school was something called define your terms. you'll probably remember that. and we have two very big terms. the founders and democracy and our first panel was talking a lot about democracy. and one of the themes that often came up is what does democracy mean? and i thought that might be a good way to actually start this conversation is with the idea of democracy and to ask what democracy actually means. what is it that we're talking about when we evoke it so frequently as we did in the last panel, as we do in our everyday lives, and worry about this idea of democracy. but what

host: betty koed, my guess is you have worked with joann freeman. betty: i know joann.hat is a good description of the caning of charles sumner. it was a nation-changing event in some ways, i would say. when preston brooks, a south carolinian, came in -- i should set the stage. in 1856, charles sumner had delivered a speech he called "the crime against kansas." in that speech, he denounced the senators and representatives particularly senators who had supported passage of the kansas nebraska act two years earlier. the reason he did mounts to him was because the kansas nebraska act had opened up the possibility for slavery to move into western territories. charles sumner of massachusetts was, in the senate, the leading abolitionist hoping to abolish the institution of slavery. he saw passage of the kansas nebraska act as another great crimes in our national history. so in may 19 1856, he comes to the senate chamber and over the course of two days delivers a speech that lasts about five or six hours. it is a really radical speech for the time. it is very strong in its lan

host: betty koed, my guess is you have worked with joann freeman. betty: i know joann.t is a good description of the caning of charles sumner. it was a nation-changing event, in some ways, i would say. when preston brooks, a south carolinian, came in -- i should set the stage. in 1856, charles sumner had delivered a speech he called "the crime against kansas." in that speech, he denounced the senators and representatives, particularly senators who had supported passage of the kansas nebraska act two years earlier. the reason he did mounts to him was because the kansas nebraska act had oped up the possibility for slavery to move into western territories. charles sumner of massachusetts was, in the senate, the leading abolitionist hoping to abolish the institution of slavery. he saw passage of the kansas nebraska act as another great crimes in our national history. so in may 19, 1856, he comes to the senate chamber and over the course of two days delivers a speech that lasts about five or six hours. it is a really radical speech for the time. it is very strong in its lang

host: betty koed, my guess is you have worked with joann freeman. betty: i know joann.hat is a good description of the caning of charles sumner. it was a nation-changing event, in some ways, i would say. when preston brooks, a south carolinian, came in -- i should set the stage. in 1856, charles sumner had delivered a speech he called "the crime against kansas." in that speech, he denounced the senators and representatives, particularly senators who had supported passage of the kansas nebraska act two years earlier. the reason he did mounts to him was because the kansas nebraska act had opened up the possibility for slavery to move into western territories. charles sumner of massachusetts was, in the senate, the leading abolitionist hoping to abolish the institution of slavery. he saw passage of the kansas nebraska act as another great crimes in our national history. so in may 19, 1856, he comes to the senate chamber and over the course of two days delivers a speech that lasts about five or six hours. it is a really radical speech for the time. it is very strong in its

she co-hosts the podcast now and then with joanne freeman, and i just commented to her, just got her newsletter from america, an american at 430 this morning. so she's a busy woman. i remember being mesmerized by the words of tracy k smith when she served as the 22nd poet laureate of the united states from 2017 to 2019. during this time, tracy spearhead added american conversations celebrating poems in rural communities with the library of congress. she, the american public media podcast the slowdown and edited the ever popular anthology 50 poems for our time. tracy k smith is pulitzer prize winning poet memoirist, editor, translator and i brightest. she is a professor of english and african and african american studies at harvard university. today she will be about her latest book to free the captives a plea for the soul of america. a plea for the american cell. excuse me. i found this book a gorgeous and a reminder that the discomfort of the present time affects us all and that we can, in her words, choose to work alongside the generations that precede us intending to america's wou

zach, an hour ago, i spoke with joanne freeman and stephen -- stephen levitsky made a point, the freedom house evaluation of american freedom has dropped from 92 to 83 or something like that. one of the things he cites, and it's -- his special specialty as well. is violence. the threat of violence in our political system. this is real. this is not something that has been associated with american politics, except for key points in our history like the civil war, the civil rights movement. generally, speaking that's not part of how we think about our politics. >> look, that's right. look, the united states is self understood as the world's -- oldest democracy. the longest continuous constitution, candid continuous history of democratic rule. you can quibble that with this definition, one really important part of democracy, as we understand, it is that you don't have a violent transitions of power. and you don't have violence as a routine way in which political power is decided, determined, and allocated. and what we're seeing here, the united states, actually spoke to joanne from this arti

and and the previous panel joanne freeman spoke about hamilton and and i kind of think of the hamilton effect that the effect that that musical had on this current generation of young people and even older people, that i think there are ways it shows that there are ways to open people's eyes to the founding generation, to their genius, to their flaws. and we can we can do it all. lindsey mentioned abigail adams when george washington died. i mean, one of the smartest things she said and she said a lot of smart things is that simple. should be his his eulogy. and part of that simple truth that he had flaws. he made mistakes. but he also left this incredible legacy and so so, you know, a note of optimism. i'm encouraged by what we saw in the poll. i think just i want to add one amendment or additions not amendment additions, which right which that actually celebrating flawed people is so much more useful and and allows us to actually appreciate their contributions more because if their heroic person than doing heroic things is to be expected if they are flawed humans and they do extraord