. >> my name is john eastman.constitutional law and former dean had this rogue legal theory that if the legislature felt odd about the results of the election. it was argued it to seize the decision on who georgia's electoral votes should go to, correct me if i'm wrong here are your argument is that essentially we have a failed election that would require the legislature to step in and assign electors. am i correct? >> yes. >> and that's when the purpose of the meeting became clear. >> they thought that they could get officials there to call a special session throughout their electors and appoint a on alternate set of electors or fake electors urine attorney? >> yes. >> what did you make about legal argument >> i thought it was totally bogus because it was very clear under georgia law that we had no such power >> during the hearing. parent tweeted about being forced to listen to the trump team's conspiracy theories >> all of a sudden, i was going by hi role in these right-wing segments of twitter. >> you would bri

was set to certify biden's electoral college victory. >> john eastman came up with a really kinda crazy legal theory where he tried to convince the vice president that he had the authority to basically declare which slate of electors is accurate or to not accept a slate of electors. the constitution is very clear that he doesn't have that authority >> but for trump, it was the last day desperate attempt to stay in the white house >> there were multiple steps here. i mean, part of it was to declare that there was fraud and then if you didn't do that too send it back to the states where he felt republican legislators would appoint new electors. >> that would then vote for him if not all that work. he knew that he was going to have supporters coming into town to try to pressure pence to do one of these things? >> but the president began his pressure campaign immediately trump tried to coerce pants on several private phone calls, even on christmas day and then there was the public pressure on pants. >> she's a great guy if he doesn't come through, i won't like what as much on january 5th, t

congress was set to certify biden's electoral college victory. >> john eastman came up with a really kind of crazy legal theory where he tried to convince the vice president that he had the authority to basically declare which slate of electors is accurate or to not accept a slate of electors. the constitution is very clear that he doesn't have that authority. >> but for trump, he was the last day aspirin attempt to stay in the white house >> there were multiple steps here. i mean, part of it was to declare that there was fraud and then if you didn't do that to send it back to the states where he felt republican legislators would appoint new electors >> that would then >> vote for him. if not all that work. he knew that he was going to have supporters coming into town down to try to pressure pence to do one of these things >> but the president began his pressure campaign immediately trump tried to coerce pants on several private phone calls, even on christmas day and then there was the public pressure on pants she's a great guy >> if he doesn't come through, i won't like of what his

eastman. i'm a professor of constitutional law and former dean had this rogue legal theory that if the legislature felt odd about the results of the election, it was our duty to seize the decision on who georgia's electoral votes should go to, correct me if i'm wrong here are your argument is that essentially we have a failed election that would require the legislature to step in and assign electors. am i correct? >> yes. >> and that's when the purpose of the meeting became clear. >> they thought that they could get officials there to call a special session throughout their electors and appoint a on alternate set of electors or fake electors urine attorney? >> yes. what did you make a bet legal argument >> i thought it was totally bogus because it was very clear under georgia law that we had no such power >> during the hearing. parent tweeted about being forced to listen to the trump team's conspiracy theories all of a sudden, i was going viral in these right-wing segments of twitter >> you wo

he had recused himself in the john eastman case because of his wife's involvement in the january 6th insurrection but today in another case involving the same subject matter, he did not recuse himself. this is a crisis of ethics at the supreme court. chief justice roberts has said they can police themselves but it is clear based on thomas' own actions that he cannot and they cannot and it is high time for congress to enact significant ethical reforms at the supreme court. >> daniel goldman from new york, thank you so much, sir. good to see you. >> you, too. >>> a powerful interview. in october, i spoke with a man in israel while his wife and children were being held hostage by hamas. i'm going to talk to him again, but he will not be alone this time. you're not going to want to miss that interview. >>> also, can president biden turn this scathing classified documents report to his political advantage or will this haunt him in november? that's next. >>> the scathing special counsel report on president biden's willful retention of classified documents though he decided not to pursue cr

that's actually the first theory we address in our book and we conclude as john eastman who concocted the theory in a podcast he did with us, that there is no basis in law for the idea that the vice president has any authority except to simply count the votes presented. pennsylvania presented one slate of electors. that slate was certified six days before the electors were to vote. under the elector contract that existed then, there is no basis for them to second guess those votes because the only question for congress is whether the votes for electors were regularly given, which in 2020, they were. >> one of the questions i have is you know, has the genie been let out of the bottle to some extent now? you were saying about the beginning of this interview, that people who want to try to overturn the next election or steal it to put it more bluntly, will just be smarter about it the next time around. how does the public guard against that? how do voters guard against that? >> well, you know, i think it's a core problem we have here is a loss of good faith on both sides of the aisle. i

john eastman try to overturn the last election, he would probably be the head of the justice department. jonathan: jeff clark. sarah: with jeff clark. all the people who try to overturn it. the madisons, the kellys, everyone who kept the thing on the rails, nobody is joining the administration to do that. whoever he chooses as vice president would not be mike pence. it makes it much harder to do one of these alternative slates of electors. i do not think people are sufficiently alarmed about what a second trump -- it is not just american courage all over again -- american carnage all over again. there is burning the boats in a bad way where these people say they are writing this -- riding this prompting to the end and i'm. going to punish my enemies. . . we are all getting audited in this room if trump is the person. jonathan: at minimum. sarah: at minimum. anytime i feel tired, i hold those scenarios in my head to think about just how bad it could be. most of the people in congress who would have stood up to him last time, they are gone. they have all been run out. there is brad raffen

it was emails we were trying to receive from john eastman, trump's lawyer.amed in it. trump's lawyers were going back and forth and say it clarence thomas is our best shot, if we can delay the certification on january 6th. it tells you something, that donald trump's allies are saying clarence thomas is our best shot. so not recusing yourself from that. we know how donald trump's allies think of him that way. top leaders have called on clarence thomas to recuse himself and it striking he is not. >> was there anything else donald trump said in his statement afterward that made you think twice or think, that is false? >> donald trump keeps perpetuating or trying to blame nancy pelosi. donald trump confuses nancy pelosi and nikki haley on a daily basis -- we should keep repeating that. he keeps trying to put the blame at nancy pelosi. the january 6th committee debunked that. many news organizations also debunked. that there was no chance nancy pelosi hit any power and what was going on on january 6th, he's trying to divert the attention from himself. that's why

eastman all of them are indicted as part of a conspiracy case this is the only conspiracy case thatvolved in trump's efforts to overturn the election. >> you chose to write about georgia because it sounds like it was such a web, there's so many details in this book which is why it's important to talk about them and not the sidebar. you have quite a story about jordan fuchs in their, so tell me a little bit about that. >> this is one of the most incredible stories of the whole 2020 election battle, here's this non political aide political consultant 30 years old, very -- who on her own makes this unilateral spur of the moment decision to keep the phone call that trump is having with raffensperger. why? because raffensperger's her boss she knows the dangers of getting into a conversation with donald trump, who is suing raffensperger at the time how he would distort the conversation and you never know -- she's on the phone call the whole time. she puts around me but she tapes the call. and as a result we have the most compelling evidence of trump's pressure on raffensperger on state of

from rudy giuliani to mark meadows, to john eastman. all of them are indicted as part of a conspiracy case. this is the only conspiracy case that touches on all the people who were involved in trump's efforts to overturn the election. >> you chose to write about georgia because it sounds like it was such a -- there are so many details in this book, which is why it's important to talk about them and not the side by. you have quite a story about jordan fuchs and a. tell me a bit about that. >> that's one of the most incredible stories of the whole 2020 election battle. he was this non political aide -- political consultant, 30 years old, you are a young political aide at one time, who on her own makes this unilateral, spare of the moment decision to tape the phone call that trump is having with raffensperger. why? because raffensperger's her boss. she knows the dangers of getting into a conversation with donald trump -- who is suing raffensperger at the time. -- you never know if she's on the phone call. she was on the phone call the whol

john eastman try to overturn the last election, he would probably be the head of the justice department. jonathan: jeff clark. sarah: with jeff clark. all the people who try to overturn it. the madisons, the kellys, everyone who kept the thing on the rails, nobody is joining the administration to do that. whoever he chooses as vice president would not be mike pence. it makes it much harder to do one of these alternative slates of electors. i do not think people are sufficiently alarmed about what a second trump -- it is not just american courage all over again -- american carnage all over again. there is burning the boats in a bad way where these people say they are writing this -- riding this prompting to the end and i'm. going to punish my enemies. . . we are all getting audited in this room if trump is the person. jonathan: at minimum. sarah: at minimum. anytime i feel tired, i hold those scenarios in my head to think about just how bad it could be. most of the people in congress who would have stood up to him last time, they are gone. they have all been run out. there is brad raffen