so it's interesting that, oh, it's john santucci, a reporter for abc news on the trump campaign. i spoke to mr. santucci about it, and he contacted me. when did you speak to him, and he also me whether or not i was responsible or knew whether they were responsible. they're talking about the karen mcdougal payment. they're talking about the $130,000. it's interesting that so much of this cross has not centered around this $130,000 payment. >> networks don't pay money, not in my 40 decades, whatever. networks don't pay the way tabloids do. they don't pay for a story. this is not a credible story. >> unless it was an adjacent kind of -- >> $130,000, the same amount, he's saying. >> well, we're going to continue to watch this. you talked about that recording he made with mr. davidson, yes, in october. what did you say to santucci. barbara mcquade, so much of this just the idea about the payment, and who they made the payment to, and that another news organization was interested, we all heard this before. is this just a reminder? is this going somewhere that you can see. we have seen