that's what chris kise is doing right now. he put it in a political context. now he's going through his theory of the case. he's insisting, that, my client had no motivation to lie. he's describing his client as an expert in commercial real estate, which the judge took issue with saying he wasn't certified as an expert. he said he didn't believe deutch bank was only going to look at his financial fitness when deciding when to lend him money. it's pretty dry. no real fireworks. this is what closing arguments are supposed to be. >> it's the legal side of all this right now. his attorney is making a legal case. i'm making that distinction because a lot of what's been taking place here isn't legal at all. >> 100%. we've seen the former president show up on multiple days. he has testified. during his time in court he's acted in a way that's unusual for most people, but not unusual for a political candidate. he's framed this entire thing as a politically-motivated investigation, trying to interfere with the election. he's tried to tie the district attorney to his po

chris kise is presenting his closing argument. for the first time we heard the judge stop him and correct him. it was over whether former president trump is an industry expert. kise reminded the court, as part of his closing argument -- i'm reading notes -- that trump is a, quote, industry expert. he said trump has been part of the fabric of commercial real estate in this state and around the world. the judge stopped him and said, trump has not been qualified as an expert. when you bring in an expert, they have to be qualified. the judge stopped him, corrected him. things like this, john, get under trump's skin. trump is sitting in there because this case is so personal. this about everything he's sold himself to be. it's likely this exchange did not please kise's client. >> it's interesting. it's a technical term. industry expert is a legal term. for donald trump it's probably a term of art, right? >> absolutely. i'm sure donald trump takes issue with anyone suggesting he's not an expert. the judge said you can't refer to him as

and kise says, you can't just make a number.ike a damage, but they still have the burden to demonstrate that there was some harm that president trump got something that he did not deserve. so there was a lot of back and forth, obviously between judge engoron and his defense attorney chris kise on this idea of disgorgement that katie phang was talking about. one more thing, jose, and then i'll send it back to you. and this goes to what i was speaking about earlier, how this is going to hit at the heart of who the former president is, and how he has defined himself the last half century, and talking about his assets, and chris kise brings up his assets in these closing arguments saying president trump has one of the strongest personal balance sheets you have ever seen. extensive real estate, a billion in equity, net worth of 4.2 adjusted at 2.4, that is what is material to them, not the annual financial statements. really speaking of what they see as this expansive wealth that the former president possesses. so a lot going on in t

chris kise from the defense has started his closing arguments. i just want to read a little bit to you from what we're hearing from him. he says this, not one witness over a three-year investigation, a year of litigation, 44 days of trial, not one witness said there was fraud or identified a material misstatement. not one said the loan terms or pricing would have been any different. they didn't cite witnesses, bank officers or experts. the only witness was michael cohen. this entire case is a political agenda. he also says the a.g. says the goal is to protect counterparties in the marketplace. no counterparties or anyone from the marketplace showed up to say there were problems, and the only citation they have, judge -- this is what chris kise says and hear this -- the only citation they have, judge, is you, not one witness came into the courtroom to say there was fraud. so we're hearing that from chris kise, the beginning of this closing argument which will go on for two hours. i do want to circle back, and danny knows i love to go at him with t

chris kise kept saying a lot of the evidence was unrebutted. the attorney general never came back with anything to say, hey, that's the evidence that team trump got and they never rebutted it. the judge interjected and said, he doesn't have to accept unrebutted evidence if he doesn't find it credible. there was back and forth about that. the third thing that came up was the issue of disgorgement. what is the final fine? the attorney general is now looking at $370 million. there was a lot of wrangling about that and a lot of dispute from the trump team about that number, that it's crazy, it's delusional. that's where we are at right now. >> can you explain how she went from 250 to 370? >> right. they looked, after the evidence, this they said there was more harm done. the banks are owed more. they should have gotten more interest off of the loans than they did because trump submitted the financial statements that overly timistic. he got preferential treatment. there's two other important -- or two pieces of it, one other component to that, which

his lawyer, chris kise, offering a summary of their case. arguing that this is a politically motivated case that has been manufactured, insisting that their client had no motivation to lie to deutsche bank about his net worth, and insisting that in trump's experience, he didn't expect that the bank would just rely solely on these statements that were presented about his net worth. now, kise also took aim at trump's former lawyer and fixer, michael cohen, because as you may remember, back in 2019, cohen testified before congress that trump had misled the government and banks about his net worth to get more favorable terms on loans and for his taxes. and that testimony is part of what has brought us here to this civil case in new york. they also took aim at cohen's recent mishap where he relied on artificial intelligence to drum up some citations for a court case. now, they're taking aim at his credibility because they argue that cohen is the only one who testified here there was any intent to defraud. now, it's been interesting to watch the j

kise, you need to control your client. it was the end of that and they were out. >> chris kise, for those who don't remember all of the playing cards, he got the $3 million or $2 million up front to represent trump. did you get the sense and could you tell if the idea for him to speak was his idea or the lawyers? i cannot imagine it was chris kise's idea. >> all along, it's him making the calls. and in those emails that i just referred to, you could see in the writing, there was almost a cut and paste, this was not chris kise speaking. this was donald trump speaking. referring to this prosecution, it's a political witch hunt. >> they're performing for him. how high do you think this could letitia james has now gone up to $370 million. could it go higher? >> i don't know if it goes higher but higher than we initially started. donald trump's defense team was very smart to invoke language around corporate death penalty. what that's intended to do to get the justice to back up just a a little bit because he's worried about the

>> because i bet chris kise had no interest in having donald trump speak today.wanted to speak today, and i think sometimes especially now after this many years, if you're signing on to be former president trump's attorney, part of the deal is you know the client is going to make some demands, and the client has the right to ask. but i'm astonished that it even got this far. i'm astonished that donald trump was able to say one word. i have been saying this all morning, this is a motion that had it been made with a party that no one's ever heard of, that motion would have been denied, there would have been no e-mails back and forth, no consideration, and he never would have spoken. that's because judges say if you have a lawyer, the lawyer does the talking. you know why? because most of the time clients don't understand what's relevant and what's not. attorneys will tell you that throughout trial, their client will lean over, poke at them, hand them notes, and i promise you, 9 times out of 10, the note has nothing to do with anything, and that should not ever come

kise, there was a better way to do this. he felt cornered, and he felt as if he had no choice because if he had denied trump, the reaction, of course, would be more threats, vociferous social media posts about how trump had been denied a forum to speak. and because he had in the first instance offered trump that opportunity, he decided to reoffer it on the same terms. can you promise me that you will add hear as any attorney in this court of law would have to to the facts and the law here, and i think at the end engoron was perhaps resigned to the fact that this interaction went exactly the way that anyone on this panel could have told you it would, and yet, engoron still held out hope perhaps idealistically that this would turn out somewhat differently. >> let's go away for just a moment if we can, charles, from the dog and pony show and talk about the arguments and as lisa points out the possibility that there might be one appealable area here. what can you see that may have actually advanced the legal case today? >> well,

kise try to control your client, trying to rein trump in. -- i did nothing wrong, they should pay me for what i've had to go through, would -- trump getting a little bit of his words there before the judge. he did testify in this case, and he's going to be making more public statements later before the cameras, which he has used every opportunity coming to court as an opportunity to speak to the public. the real work meaning double the -- try to convince the judge that he shouldn't find trump and his two adult sons liable, that he shouldn't ban them from doing business in new york, that he should dissolve their businesses, which is he has already set in motion. they were trying to stick to the facts of the case, saying that the attorney generals office didn't put on a single witness to say that they were defrauded in this case. the allegations are here that trump has engaged in false financial statements with values of his properties, mar-a-lago, is xxx apartment, overly inflated. he's -- get better terms on policies and interest rates on loans. they were saying they did not hear fro

you look at the fact she also represented him in a n york civil fraud trial, alongside chris kise who was the one time florida solicitor general, somebody who was widely respected frida, and chris kise, i was there outside of the courthouse the dayonald trump testified in november answering questions from letitia james' prosecutors. chris kise comes out and told us upon my asking that he was the best witness that he had brought to the stand in over 30 years, which warranted a chuckle because the judge inside of that courtroom, who was going to be determining donald trump's punishment directly told donald trump that he had no option but to draw negative inferences from his answers when you go and look at the fact that what he wants is a loyalty and fealty to him. and a defense attorney down in georgia, as soon as donald trump was indicted by fulton county prosecutors, drew findland was thrown off the cliff. and evan corcoran, he was forced to testify to a federal grand jury under the crime fraud exemption. but then also you have the likes of christina bob who signed an affidavit from t

she made a point of saying that there was no fraud, and she and kise focused a lot on michael cohen, -- testified that he was told him directly by trump to boost the values of these properties along with alan weiss, the former cfo. this investigation started when michael cohen testified before congress in 2019. the attorney generals office has been clear about that, so they were focusing on his credibility because during his testimony initially he said trump directed him, and then he walked back and said it wasn't a directive, that it was known as an inference that trump gives. trump's sons are also on trial here, eric trump is in the courtroom today along with the trump advisor boris epstein, he was sitting beside him. their attorneys also had a quick shot of the end, and they also said there was no evidence against their clients. >> the legal proceeding very much a political event. they started their argument that this is a political motivated case, and then trump argued at the end this is the same thing. boris we're gonna -- address the cameras after that monologue. >> as we under

arthur enron, denied that request and posted his entire email exchange with trump's attorney, chris kiseon the court docket. for those of you who have not read it, it is colorful. judge engoron said he would allow mr. trump to speak but only if trump agreed to several limitations, includin one prohibiting a campgn speech. ump's attorney rejected those limits, calling them untenable and complaining in the most trumpy way imaginable, this is very unfair, your honor. you are not allowing president trump, who has been wrongly demeaned and belittled by an out-of-control politically motivated attorney general, to speak about things that must be spoken about. judge engoron's response, take it or leave it, now or never. you have until noon. seven minutes from now. all caps. i will not grant any further extensions. trump's lawyers did not respond and their client will not be speaking tomorrow. joining me now, susan glasser, staff writer at the new yorker and co-writer of the divider. susan, i was really struck by a number of different exchanges in this court filing on the docket. but the first wa

it was notable that he and his lawyer, chris kise were efforting to try to get him the opportunity toid it there, for lawyers in closing arguments, they are bound by the rules that they must stick to the evidence that has already been presented in the courtroom. these rules would not be something specific to donald trump, but if he wanted to stand in in place of the lawyer, he wanted to abide by the rules of the judge and the court. ultimately come 11:54 this morning, the lawyer for donald trump, chris kise had not gotten back to judge engoron and had not agreed to these conditions that were being asked by the judge. and in that e-mail, the judge writes, quote, i won't debate this yet again, take it or leave it. now or never, you have until noon. seven minutes from now, i will not grant any further extensions. well, noon today, came and gone, katy, and donald trump did not agree to those conditions. while he may be in lower manhattan tomorrow, he will not be speaking on behalf of himself and instead he'll be letting his lawyers do that at a time when potentially the future of the trum

kise said in his closing arguments, the death penalty penalty for the trump organization. that's certainly going to be appealed and as it's appealed, the lawyers are going to ask the judge stay his decision. he hold off on forcing the companies to sell or cease doing business. that would be a supreme court appeal as well. this is going to go on for a long time. whatever this penalty is and however it's ordered and to whatever degree it's ordered, it's going to be a long time before former president trump will have to pay much if anything on this. >> one of the main arguments was a victimless crime, trump was a great client, much in demand, banks loved him. take a listen to what the former president had to say just a little earlier this morning. >> lawyers said they were great loans. the bank got us the loans. they got paid. the banks were in perfect condition. the bankers were extremely happy with these loans. and there were no faults, no problems. >> the trump team said he was dealing with banks for 50 years, and as you pointed out, compared to other real estate developme

. >> trump's attorney chris kise summarized his arguments other attorneys got up to summarize theirshris kise got up just a few moments ago and asked if former president trump could address the court. he then launched into what our colleagues who are inside described as a monologue telling the court, "the facts are the financial statements are perfect. there are no witnesses against us the banks got all their money paid back. they were great loans. this was a political witch hunt. we have a situation where i am an innocent man. he said, quote, i am being persecuted by somebody running for office >> trump has immediately launched into an attack of the attorney general you know, he's saying that she hates trump and is just using this him -- using this case to get elected. >> seth: it's always so weird to hear reporters read trump's remarks. it's like listening to a tourist read a menu in a language they don't speak. [ laughter ] "i just left the courtroom where trump was delivering his remarks to the court he told the judge, quote, you hate trump, you're a trump hater, this is a witch

. >> trump's attorney chris kise summarized his arguments other attorneys got up to summarize theirs chris kise got up just a few moments ago and asked if former president trump could address the court. he then launched into what our colleagues who are inside described as a monologue telling the court, "the facts are the financial statements are perfect. there are no witnesses against us the banks got all their money paid back. they were great loans. this was a political witch hunt. we have a situation where i am an innocent man. he said, quote, "i am being persecuted by somebody running for office." >> trump has immediately launched into an attack of the attorney general you know, he's saying that she hates trump and is just using this him -- using this case to get elected. >> seth: it's always so weird to hear reporters read trump's remarks. it's like listening to a tourist read a menu in a language they don't speak. [ laughter ] "i just left the courtroom where trump was delivering his remarks to the court he told the judge, quote, 'you hate trump, you're a trump hater, this is a

they even though chris kise talked for two hours, other tierney's got up and laid out their closing arguments, not one person addressed the false financial statements trump submitted, that misrepresented his assets by billions. those are really the key to this case. paula reid, cnn, new york. >> more on breaking news out of yemen when we come back. stay with us. >>> latest on the military strikes by the u.s. and britain in yemen, here this video shows smoke near a major part of the country. a resident give us the footage is reporting no explosions there. we are still waiting for an official confirmation that the area was struck again. that comes hours after the u.s. hit 60 other targets belong to houthi rebels were allowed to iran. those targets concluded it radar, john, and missile strikes. no military response followed -- on international shipping in the red sea, one of the key commercial waterways. it seems boeing's problems with it 737 max nine jets are far from over. a class action lawsuit has been filed in the state of washington against the aerospace giant on behalf of passengers over

they noted that even though chris kise talked for two hours, others laid out their closing argument, but not one person addressed the false financial statements. and those are really the key to this case. paula reid, cnn, new york. >>> hunter biden pleaded not guilty in a federal court on thursday. prosecutors say tax years 2016 through 2019, hunter biden spent his money on drugs, escorts and girlfriends, luxury hotels, ek on the exotic cars and basically everything but taxes. >> his attorney says it is a political hit job. republicans have accused president biden of benefiting financially from his son's business dealings with ukrainian and chinese companies. these claims remain unproven. the judge has set hunter biden's trial date for june 20. >>> and after a short break, the u.s. and uk launching air and sea based strikes against iran-backed houthi targets in yemen. >>> and also ahead, israel is facing accusations of genocide in gaza. details on this historic hearing coming up. in order for small businesses to thrive, they need to be smart, efficient, savvy. making the most of ever

for lawyers to summarize their theory of the case, and the day kicked off with trump's lawyer chris kise laying out their theory of the case, arguing this is a political persecution and that his client trump and no intention of defrauding banks and that the banks were never harmed but after cars wrapped his remarks he then asked his client could have a few minutes to address the court and the judge granted it saying i will give you five minutes. the judge a previously set a restriction on trump saying, you can participate in closing our hands can't give a campaign speech. that is exactly what trump did. attacking the judge, attacking attorney general office, and insisting that he is quote innocent man. trump addressed the public on his way into court on his way out of course, those remarks in court and had a press conference. it appears we got a real return on investment here in terms of amplifying his argument that he is being targeted because of a desire by his political opponents to try to quote, interfere in this election. i want to note something that the attorney generals office sa

kise, other than throwing in the statement for the audience of one, donald trump, about what a genius otherwise he did stick to legal arguments. >> did you get a medal? just so we know. >> i mean, i don't think there are any medals for anyone. 4 days of just a slugfest for sure. he did a serviceable job. then alina habba came in firing. maybe there was an interview for media job. it was, you know, a lot of bombast, a lot of yelling. it was shocking to see. you know, at one point she turned to the judge and says, have you ever made a mistake, pointing to him about the apartment -- >> yeah, bizarre. >> not something you would expect. she kept focussing on the apartment, the tripling of the size as being her favorite topic. she also said it's just a mistake, people make mistakes. that's clearly not the case here. >> dan, christy is reminding us one of the problems of covering this fairly, you cover a trial and sometimes you focus on both sides. here he hurt himself with the judge, the lawyers are out here, it's banana grams, yet there are got affirmative defenses here. the idea that real

>> i don't think he's necessarily lost faith in his lawyers, chris kise, his longterm attorney.hink he believes he's his best spokesman and he sees this as more of a campaign event. that's his real return on investment for showing up, as he has here so many times during the course of this trial. is to create drama, to frame himself as a victim, and try to draw attention away from his republican rivals. i see it more as just him once again trying to seize the spotlight and take control of this proceeding, which he has tried to do numerous times and has been successful in the past. >> as we said, i do think we can count this courthouse as the 100th county in iowa. the iowa caucuses are on monday. nothing that happens here is divorced from what's happening on the campaign trail. unfortunately, one of the things that has happened this morning is the bomb threat at the home of judge arthur engoron. things seem to be moving more slowly because of it, a more slow procedure letting people into the courthouse and into the courtroom itself. we did just see donald trump's motorcade leaving

and no matter how many times alina hobbs, or kris kise, or any of these others regurgitate his talkingthey're denigration of me. the one thing that donald knows is that the bill is coming and that he cannot afford to pay it. >> well they certainly mention you. i mean trump's lawyers calling you, i think the phrase was, a serial liar, in court. they attack your credibility. one would say what else is new when it comes to this sort of thing. but what is your response of being so integral to this entire event? >> well, i don't really have a comment for it. i certainly did not ask for it. i testified before the house oversight committee truthfully. the only thing that they can do, again is to continue to denigrate me and try to impugn my credibility. so far everything that i have said has turned out to be accurate. this very much like the manhattan district direct attorney case is predicated on documentary evidence as well as corroborating testimony. which they have. it is why i say that the bill is coming and he cannot afford it. what is going to happen in the criminal trial, again we hav

is when donald trump's lawyer chris kise responded to judge engoron and said that donald trump did nottions that the judge was demanding be placed on trump if, in fact, he wanted to help deliver his closing argument tomorrow in lower manhattan. now, as part of those preconditions, donald trump would have to stick to only talking about the evidence presented at trial and not veering off course and this is not -- i should say that this is normal, not just for donald trump but for any lawyer in closing arguments, they must stick to the evidence that was presented at trial, donald trump and his legal team not agreeing to those preconditions set by the judge here. now, it may be no surprise that donald trump will still be going to lower manhattan for those closing arguments tomorrow, despite not speaking on his own behalf because there is, frankly, jose, a heck of a lot on the line, not only a $370 million fine that is being sought by new york attorney general letitia james, but she is also seeking to ensure donald trump can never do business in the state of new york as well. he is staring

dispersements to the folks who have been his lawyers in this case particularly, alina habba, christopher kisesay that the trump organization's biggest expense and legal fees almost dropped my jaw, jose. >> lisa rubin, thank you very much. >> thank you. >>> coming up, republican presidential candidate nikki haley doubling down on her remark that the united states says, quote, never been a racist country. we'll play for you what she had to say next. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. o. but this is my story. ( ♪♪ ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful. because with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open for a full 24 hours and prevents future flare-ups. trelegy also improves lung function, so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and o

kise, please control your client," when trump continued and then he cut him off.go for a while, and the attorney general's office didn't object either. >> the judge suggested he'd make a decision by january 31st. >> yup. >> this trump rant yesterday, what role, if any, could it play in weighing in on what the judge decides? i heard other lawyers suggest that, in a way, by letting trump speak, this defangs a possible appeal opportunity for trump? >> there are a number of instances along the way that could have led to further arguments on appeal, right, by former president trump, that he wasn't given an opportunity to present evidence. there are arguments about hiss experts. this is another argument he could have made. i want to point out to you and our viewers how unusual it is for a party with a competent team of lawyers to get up in their own defense during a closing argument, particularly when they skip an opportunity to testimony. closing arguments are not supposed to be testimony. to the extent that former president trump yesterday said things that are against

what i think will happen is that chris kise will take another swing at allowing donald trump to speakn which the client is driving the request. in fact, even the language that kise uses later in the email chain becomes increasingly trumpy, down to the capitalization. i think you'll see that request. you'll see a tussle back and forth. ultimately, donald trump will not be allowed to speak, is my prediction. nonetheless, he'll make very good use of the cameras right outside that courthouse that the new york judges permitted to exist. i think that was a major mistake. i'll be interested to see when alvin bragg gets to try his case against the former president in criminal court down the street, perhaps in march, depending on whether judge tanya chutkan's case is allowed to go forward, whether those conditions will be allowed to exist down the street. i predict the answer will be no. >> okay. lisa, we've got so much to keep track of in terms of donald trump's legal cases. let's look ahead to next week and another e. jean carroll defamation case. some new rulings from the judge in that case