brothers were murdered on the 4th of january, 1976, he's and joe kampel whose father was murdered in kushindall, actually by the same, the same man was involved, the jackel the jackel robin jack jackson um uh killer for hire and working working both with the special branch and with mi5, um, we got together - there was an event in in the uk was run by michael oher whose little sister magella o'her was murdered. uh in in 76 and i think it was august 76 and it it was a bring people together from both communities who had been uh had been impacted by the troubles uh one of the other speakers on that particular event his his his his his his wife had been killed in the shankel road bombing and um there was there was four of us uh talking about our experiences because it's important to to talk about these things so... people understand the futility and the failure of violence and uh we decided that the event that was almcbr was the the man's name whose wife sharen was was murdered in on the shenkel road bombing but um when when we began to realize you know there's more there's more about other people a