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maybe not so much in the primary, but in a general election for sure. >> so matt lewis, before we let you go this morning, this is the last show of the year. let's look ahead to 2024. give us from your point of view the snapshot of this race. obviously, donald trump is up 30 points, depending on the poll and the state you look at. nikki haley has closed some ground in the state of new hampshire. is there any reason to believe anyone other than donald trump will be the nominee? >> no, you have to really squint and imagine. and i have said the only way that you can even conceive barring donald trump being kicked off ballots, and that could happen. that's not an implausible idea, but assuming the race goes forward with the the candidates that we have, the only sort of conceivable way that donald trump isn't the nominee is if someone else wins iowa, nikki haley wins new hampshire, she's able the to parlay the new hampshire victory into south carolina. and all the stars would have to align. it was always going to be highly unlikely, but within the realm of possibility. i think this gaffe,

let's bring in matt lewis from "the daily beast." good to see you. you are a conservative of a true blue stripe. and i'd like your take on that basic assertion. when trump was president, and given the policies he's proposing now, in what ways do you consider him or not a dependable conservative. >> i think the key word there is dependable. you know, look, donald trump is not a movement conservative. he is not philosophically conservative, he is not temperamentally conservative. he really doesn't have a commitment to conservative ideology and he doesn't live a conservative life. and i would say further what he did as president, the big advances he practice for the conservative cause were picking supreme court justices with the help, a lot of help, from the federalist society. it seems likely that in a second term he would not appoint the same kind of justices and judges. he's not been happy with them entirely. and here we have donald trump in recent months distancing himself from the dobbs decision that overturned roe v. wade. so i think on the merits

. >>> sarah matthews the former press secretary of the white house, and matt lewis, the writer and columnist for "daily beast." and so, asking to comment on the debate, and of course, he did not attend, and when asked about the debate, he chose not to answer at all, and what does that tell you? >> well, he has made a strategic decision to not participate in any of the debates, and i think that him not commenting today is a strategic decision, and it is showing that he thinks that the other candidates are the j.v. squad, and he is still dominant this the polls, and no reason for him to engage or give any oxygen to them. i think that he is probably right. obviously right now, the polling is showing that he is way ahead of them in all of the early states, and i think that in order for anyone to effectively challenge him, the field needs to narrow considerably, and we need to have one alternative to him, but right now, it seems that none of the folks on the stage last night are going to be dropping out and rally around one alternative, and so it made sinc sense for him to not engage or take the

. >>> and with all of this we have matt lewis from the "daily beast" and also the former communicationsirector for ted cruz alice stewart. so alice, coming off of what marshall laid out, what do you think of this? >> well, three things, kate. one, donald trump does not like to lose. two, when he does lose, he likes to deny it, and try to overturn the numbers. and three, win or lose for donald trump, i have full and complete confidence in our election process and election officials across the country and what we are seeing is here is a perfect example of that. look, clearly donald trump and rona mcdaniel didn't like the outcome there in wayne county and she felt there was reason to have an inquiry, but this is not how you do it. you don't get the president of the united states on the line with the people at that level and try and intimidate them and pressure them to not signing off on them. i have been deputy secretary of state, and i have overseen elections at the state level, and i know how it works, and i support the michigan secretary of state jocelyn beeson who has confidence in how

i agree with the clip from matt lewis, supreme court is going to take this up at it's very unlikely it'llt stand. >> i agree with both points the supreme court will take this up and trump appealing this is the main court and he's expected to file an appeal to colorado ruling in a couple of days, richard in d.c. they call this partisan hostel also on american democracy. now shenna bellows said she's following state law making a decision she had to make the decision. the question is in my view, who gets to decide whether donald trump is an insurrectionist, all 50 states? >> i think this is indeed the conundrum of our time and as we look at the selection we first acknowledge what jason chaffetz reviewed the cities go to divide the country was very divided, further divide the country, it's pretty much split in their split on how we see january 6 and their split on how we see donald trump for the folks that are part of donald trump's camp last segment it seems as though they feel that trump was cheating the election even there there's no evidence, and the idea that trump is the gop nominee whi