. >> did you interview your melanie perkins? she's your new boss, right? >> oh, yeah. melanie perkins is the ceo of canva and founder of canva and canva is doing extremely well. it has 170 million active users. basically the company stands for democratizing design to help people become better communicators and she's a remarkable person and the story i tell of her is how 300 -- 300 venture capitalists turned her down before she found an investor and now canva had a tend or it. >> we had her on the show years ago. i mean, as she was creating it and she was talking about venture capitalist and bill ty, wasn't it, the investigator? >> yes. >> she tried to explain what venture capital was and i said most of the people get what venture capitalists and she's now worth something like $4 billion with a "b" dollars. i think she's the richest woman in australia. >> i think she's the second richest woman in australia. you know, can i use profanity on this show? >> you cannot. you can use something like gosh darn. >> one of the concepts in the book is if you're going to be an orifa