both nick hudson and doctor malcolm kendnck nick hudson and doctor malcolm kendrick are joining me, staying with me. if i can stay with you, doctor kendrick , why? why wasn't doctor kendrick, why? why wasn't it visible without the testing? you're a you're a front line carer, but i would i would contend that the experience was that there was nothing to see except the daily reporting by politician and around the clock about the results of pcr testing. >> well, i think that, clearly, it's very difficult to diagnose a disease if you don't have a specific test for it and one specific, specific test comes along. and these arguments are , along. and these arguments are, i would agree with a number of them. but i would say speaking i was on the ground. i was actually going into nursing homes daily, and dealing with elderly people in intermediate care daily. and, and the specifically, i would say i could tell you that someone was dying of something in a way that ihave dying of something in a way that i have never seen anyone die before. and that was , i wouldn't before. and that was, i wouldn't say,