doctrine. >> judge kavanaugh's seat. >> i like the trendline on this by the way. >> thinking about theonversations, you have been a judge for a few years. how has your service as a judge furthered your sense of pluralism in american government? >> there is a deep connection between respect for pluralism and the rule of law. i have thought a lot over the past four or five years about the role of a judge. the role is to uphold the law. when judges are upholding the constitution, statutory limits on the administered of agencies, which is a big part of my job i , think that leave space for pluralism. that leaves an opening for liberty, it keeps the government within its limits. i think there is an important connection between pluralism of the rule of law. therefore the power of judicial review. >> a criticism of judges is that their work is not rule of law enough that they treat their job as a value judgment on behalf of the american people. as the supreme court is touched on the supreme court is touched on a number of issues, this criticism that the court itself is imposing value judgment