and i thought, robben island. looking at this presidential figure , i couldn't actually figure, i couldn't actually construct in my mind the scene when he'd been made to break rocks and robben island. but yes, that's that's what happened. and yet he never, never dwelt on any of that. i had forced it out of him with this stone story about the lights. and so what i found about him was that he had this view , too, that he could play a view, too, that he could play a part in changing the south african system . i challenged him african system. i challenged him on this because i thought, you know, i'd been to south africa before, and i thought they were pretty implacable about what they wanted to do with their country. thought it'd be country. and i thought it'd be very for any one man, very difficult for any one man, even mandela, to change this . even mandela, to change this. and he said to me, and i've always remembered this. he said , always remembered this. he said, if you're prepared to sit down and talk seriously