sharon graham, who you know ve well, country. sharon graham, who you know very well. is _ country. is the general— country. sharon graham, who you know very well, is the general secretary - very well, is the general secretary of the unite union. you say it is a fundamentally different direction. she says ripping up building regulations and tinkering in the public sector is not going to deliver growth. i5 public sector is not going to deliver growth.— public sector is not going to deliver growth. public sector is not going to deliver urowth. , , ., , ., deliver growth. is she wrong? if you look at the — deliver growth. is she wrong? if you look at the speech, _ deliver growth. is she wrong? if you look at the speech, there _ deliver growth. is she wrong? if you look at the speech, there is - deliver growth. is she wrong? if you look at the speech, there is a - deliver growth. is she wrong? if you look at the speech, there is a lot - look at the speech, there is a lot in rachel's speech which would be good for unite union members. if you look at the investment in different industries

we've had the general secretary, sharon graham, if you sharon graham, saying if you stick fiscal stick taxing the wealthy and pander profiteers, you pander to the profiteers, you end in a straitjacket of your end up in a straitjacket of your own are your big own making. these are your big backers . backers. >> well, look, i'd respectfully again say to anyone who doubts what rachel said , fiscal rules what rachel said, fiscal rules are not phoney. if you want to see funding in public services, into infrastructure, into all the things i think we all want to see, the discipline you show is crucially important to that. so let give you a very so let me give you a very tangible example. a years tangible example. a few years ago 2021, were projected to ago, 2021, we were projected to spend a country on our spend as a country on our national debt, on our interest payments. year, £29 payments. this year, £29 billion. actually, what we are spending £82 billion. so spending is £82 billion. so there's huge increase in there's been a huge increase in what government spends what the government spend