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May 23, 2024
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at this time with— and susan crichton. at this time with their— and susan crichton. at this time with their tensions between alice perkins, — with their tensions between alice perkins, you and susan crichton? there _ perkins, you and susan crichton? there had — perkins, you and susan crichton? there had been some difficult conversations. i can't remember exactly... alice... we were all frustrated by the report. alice felt frustrated by the report. alice felt frustrated by the report. alice felt frustrated by it. she could not understand, and again, there is documentation on this, as to why we had ended up, why the business had ended up in the position it had. with a report that hadn't taken account of post office's input and conclusions seemingly reached, or suggested, to be fair to second sight this and it was an interim report. i had been challenged over that. there was going to be more challenged to come a couple of days after this in a board meeting. i don't know what. .. after this in a board meeting. i don't know what... at after this in a board meeting. i
at this time with— and susan crichton. at this time with their— and susan crichton. at this time with their tensions between alice perkins, — with their tensions between alice perkins, you and susan crichton? there _ perkins, you and susan crichton? there had — perkins, you and susan crichton? there had been some difficult conversations. i can't remember exactly... alice... we were all frustrated by the report. alice felt frustrated by the report. alice felt frustrated by the report....
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May 23, 2024
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_ you recall that you were told by susan crichton that due to advice from _ susan crichton that due to advice from external lawyers, there was a need _ from external lawyers, there was a need for— from external lawyers, there was a need for a — from external lawyers, there was a need for a review to ensure that proper— need for a review to ensure that proper disclosure had been given in previous— proper disclosure had been given in previous criminal cases. yes. you say that— previous criminal cases. yes. you say that you — previous criminal cases. yes. you say that you had a conversation with lestey— say that you had a conversation with lestey saut— say that you had a conversation with lesley saul in which she told you that the — lesley saul in which she told you that the post office had been advised — that the post office had been advised that the expert with witness that the _ advised that the expert with witness that the post office had used in crimihat— that the post office had used in criminal cases to give evidence about— criminal cases to give evidence
_ you recall that you were told by susan crichton that due to advice from _ susan crichton that due to advice from external lawyers, there was a need _ from external lawyers, there was a need for— from external lawyers, there was a need for a — from external lawyers, there was a need for a review to ensure that proper— need for a review to ensure that proper disclosure had been given in previous— proper disclosure had been given in previous criminal cases. yes. you say that— previous...
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May 23, 2024
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when had susan crichton put her professional conduct _ susan crichton put her professional conduct requirements and integrity above _ conduct requirements and integrity above the — conduct requirements and integrity above the interest of the business? i above the interest of the business? i wrote _ above the interest of the business? i wrote this — above the interest of the business? i wrote this completely wrongly. what _ i wrote this completely wrongly. what i _ i wrote this completely wrongly. what i was — i wrote this completely wrongly. what i was trying _ i wrote this completely wrongly. what i was trying to _ i wrote this completely wrongly. what i was trying to say- i wrote this completely wrongly. what i was trying to say if- i wrote this completely wrongly. what i was trying to say if i- i wrote this completely wrongly. what i was trying to say if i may| i wrote this completely wrongly. l what i was trying to say if i may is as i what i was trying to say if i may is as i said _ what i was trying to say if i may is as i said earlier— what i was trying to say if i may is as i sa
when had susan crichton put her professional conduct _ susan crichton put her professional conduct requirements and integrity above _ conduct requirements and integrity above the — conduct requirements and integrity above the interest of the business? i above the interest of the business? i wrote _ above the interest of the business? i wrote this — above the interest of the business? i wrote this completely wrongly. what _ i wrote this completely wrongly. what i _ i wrote this completely...
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May 24, 2024
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crichton has gone _ take place after susan crichton has gone that, — take place after susan crichton has gone. that, i suggest, is because you are _ gone. that, i suggest, is because you are already moving in to cover up you are already moving in to cover up mode _ you are already moving in to cover up mode concerning garethjenkins. no, and _ up mode concerning garethjenkins. no, and i_ up mode concerning garethjenkins. no, and i am sorry we have not got time to go through that because i read that document this morning. there were two issues around the lessons learned review. i was looking for, as the inquiry has heard, a very fast review because i was faced with how do we really make the scheme work going forward? how do we work properly and carefully with the jf sa do we work properly and carefully with thejf sa and second site? and what were the lessons learned? when i came back from holiday there was a different process put in place. susan and simon baker were leaving the organisation and part of that review had been to look at how, as i explained yesterday, the project managemen
crichton has gone _ take place after susan crichton has gone that, — take place after susan crichton has gone. that, i suggest, is because you are _ gone. that, i suggest, is because you are already moving in to cover up you are already moving in to cover up mode _ you are already moving in to cover up mode concerning garethjenkins. no, and _ up mode concerning garethjenkins. no, and i_ up mode concerning garethjenkins. no, and i am sorry we have not got time to go through that because i read...
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May 22, 2024
05/24
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the inquiry heard from susan crichton, and this is a serious governance lesson, that it was not their practice and the post office and the legal team and the group previously to share legal advices. they may have had very good reasons for that, some of which would have a privilege, but they were not shared, the outcomes were discussed. as we go through some documents which we may do, i'm sure i will recognise some of the recommendations. i have to say, having read some of them, particularly one of the advices where as he was reviewing prosecution policy he was hugely critical of prior to 2012, 2013, the documentation, the policies in place, the approach, that advice was never shared with me, with the board. had we seen it, we may well have asked very different questions. what was shared with the outcome of that advice and different policies and procedures were put in place but i think there is too much reliance, or there was too much reliance on the lead general counsel in the case, and i'm not making a point about general counsel to particular, but to take the decision of what was sh
the inquiry heard from susan crichton, and this is a serious governance lesson, that it was not their practice and the post office and the legal team and the group previously to share legal advices. they may have had very good reasons for that, some of which would have a privilege, but they were not shared, the outcomes were discussed. as we go through some documents which we may do, i'm sure i will recognise some of the recommendations. i have to say, having read some of them, particularly one...
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May 23, 2024
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_ you recall that you were told by susan crichton that due to advice from _ susan crichton that due to advice from external lawyers, there was a
_ you recall that you were told by susan crichton that due to advice from _ susan crichton that due to advice from external lawyers, there was a
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May 22, 2024
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i then had a further conversation with susan crichton to say this does not quite make sense to me. why is he being stood down? and she explained that there was a duty of disclosure now, that what we had to do was go back over the cases where he had given evidence and inform them of this event. and where he had given evidence and inform them of this event. and “ust ca -iturin inform them of this event. and “ust capturing things. i inform them of this event. and “ust capturing things, we i inform them of this event. and “ust capturing things, we know�* inform them of this event. and just capturing things, we know there i inform them of this event. and just l capturing things, we know there was written _ capturing things, we know there was written advice from an independent barrister~ _ written advice from an independent barrister. do you know why neither of them _ barrister. do you know why neither of them said, paula, it is all explained _ of them said, paula, it is all explained here? | of them said, paula, it is all explained here?— of them said, paula, it is all exlai
i then had a further conversation with susan crichton to say this does not quite make sense to me. why is he being stood down? and she explained that there was a duty of disclosure now, that what we had to do was go back over the cases where he had given evidence and inform them of this event. and where he had given evidence and inform them of this event. and “ust ca -iturin inform them of this event. and “ust capturing things. i inform them of this event. and “ust capturing things, we i...
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May 23, 2024
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this is susan crichton — she was post office top lawyer then, but she was sent out from the board meeting that soon followed. she had been due to present a paper about past prosecutions. what would you say to the suggestion that this is the executive team shielding the board from the executive team's dirty laundry? i'd say it was completely wrong. and then questions about the mediation scheme to help the victims and what it was going to cost. why did you write an e—mail which says, "when we discuss this, the hope of mediation was to avoid or minimise compensation"? because that was what we discussed. right, good — that was easy, wasn't it? sorry, but not as the purpose of doing it, but one of the aspects. the hope, the hope? possibly, yes. she'll face the postmasters�* lawyers tomorrow. emma simpson, bbc news, at the post office inquiry. finally — a man renovating his wine cellar in austria has made an extraordinary discovery. it wasn't a vintage red or white — but the remains of prehistoric mammoths. the winemaker came across several huge bones, buried deep in his cellar in a v
this is susan crichton — she was post office top lawyer then, but she was sent out from the board meeting that soon followed. she had been due to present a paper about past prosecutions. what would you say to the suggestion that this is the executive team shielding the board from the executive team's dirty laundry? i'd say it was completely wrong. and then questions about the mediation scheme to help the victims and what it was going to cost. why did you write an e—mail which says,...
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May 22, 2024
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susan crichton at 9:38bn1 _ of page one, please? susan crichton at 9:38pm says, confirm i have spoken— at 9:38pm says, confirm i have spoken to — at 9:38pm says, confirm i have spoken to alan bates. explained that the family— spoken to alan bates. explained that the family had been in touch today and asked — the family had been in touch today and asked for help in branch, and the supposed matter had been involved — the supposed matter had been involved in a car accident. i explain _ involved in a car accident. i explain and is looking into this and will catch— explain and is looking into this and will catch up tomorrow for the alan is wrong _ will catch up tomorrow for the alan is wrong back and said the message about— is wrong back and said the message about the _ is wrong back and said the message about the car accident is miscommunication and is definitely a suicide _ miscommunication and is definitely a suicide attempt. we will decide how to deal— suicide attempt. we will decide how to deal with this tomorrow the
susan crichton at 9:38bn1 _ of page one, please? susan crichton at 9:38pm says, confirm i have spoken— at 9:38pm says, confirm i have spoken to — at 9:38pm says, confirm i have spoken to alan bates. explained that the family— spoken to alan bates. explained that the family had been in touch today and asked — the family had been in touch today and asked for help in branch, and the supposed matter had been involved — the supposed matter had been involved in a car accident. i explain _...
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May 23, 2024
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this is susan crichton — she was post office top lawyer then, but she was sent out from the board meeting that soon followed. she had been due to present a paper about past prosecutions. what would you say to the suggestion that this is the executive team shielding the board from the executive team's dirty laundry? i'd say it was completely wrong. and then questions about the mediation scheme to help the victims and what it was going to cost. why did you write an e—mail which says, "when we discuss this, the hope of mediation was to avoid or minimise compensation"? because that was what we discussed. right, good...that was easy, wasn't it? sorry, but not as the purpose of doing it, but one of the aspects. the hope, the hope? possibly, yes. she'll face the postmasters' lawyers tomorrow. emma simpson, bbc news, at the post office inquiry. at least four people have died and 21 are injured after a two—storey building collapsed in majorca. emergency services were called shortly after 8.30pm local time. spanish media reports say the building was a restaurant on the beachfront in palma de ma
this is susan crichton — she was post office top lawyer then, but she was sent out from the board meeting that soon followed. she had been due to present a paper about past prosecutions. what would you say to the suggestion that this is the executive team shielding the board from the executive team's dirty laundry? i'd say it was completely wrong. and then questions about the mediation scheme to help the victims and what it was going to cost. why did you write an e—mail which says,...
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May 24, 2024
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ahead l of a crunch board meeting on the 16th ofjuly 2013, the post office's top lauder susan crichton testified she told paula vennells about an expert witness in the trial as evidence was unsafe. and that sub—postmasters could sue for malicious prosecution. but instead of being invited to brief the board, she told the enquiry she was kept out of the board meeting. she enquiry she was kept out of the board meeting.— enquiry she was kept out of the board meeting. she was made to wait outside _ board meeting. she was made to wait outside on _ board meeting. she was made to wait outside on a _ board meeting. she was made to wait outside on a chair. - board meeting. she was made to wait outside on a chair. yes. - wait outside on a chair. yes. and i wait outside on a chair. yes. and i felt — wait outside on a chair. yes. and i felt bad _ wait outside on a chair. yes. and i felt bad about - wait outside on a chair. yes. and i felt bad about that. i and i felt bad about that. sitting _ and i felt bad about that. sitting there like a naughty schoolgirl? i sitting there like a naughty sc
ahead l of a crunch board meeting on the 16th ofjuly 2013, the post office's top lauder susan crichton testified she told paula vennells about an expert witness in the trial as evidence was unsafe. and that sub—postmasters could sue for malicious prosecution. but instead of being invited to brief the board, she told the enquiry she was kept out of the board meeting. she enquiry she was kept out of the board meeting.— enquiry she was kept out of the board meeting. she was made to wait...
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May 23, 2024
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jason beer are then moved on to that senior 2013 susan crichton produced a report for a board meeting on that report highlighted the fact they could be successful claims of wrongful prosecution. she was going to present a report to the board but it didn't happen. instead she was sitting on a chair outside the board meeting and the inquiry counsel said she was sitting outside like a naughty schoolgirl. he put it to paula vennells that the executive team was so concerned with shielding the board from crucial information because they were concerned that then we wrote they would have to disclose it to sub—postmasters, the media, the public she denied that. take a listen to that exchange. fiur take a listen to that exchange. our current approach would mean there is going _ current approach would mean there is going to _ current approach would mean there is going to be _ current approach would mean there is going to be some coverage but not very much, — going to be some coverage but not very much, the usual suspects. if we say we _ very much, the usual suspects. if we say we will— ve
jason beer are then moved on to that senior 2013 susan crichton produced a report for a board meeting on that report highlighted the fact they could be successful claims of wrongful prosecution. she was going to present a report to the board but it didn't happen. instead she was sitting on a chair outside the board meeting and the inquiry counsel said she was sitting outside like a naughty schoolgirl. he put it to paula vennells that the executive team was so concerned with shielding the board...
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May 23, 2024
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this is susan crichton — she was post office's top lawyer then, but she was sent out from the board meeting that soon followed. she had been due to present a paper about past prosecutions. what would you say to the suggestion that this is the executive team shielding the board from the executive team's dirty laundry? i'd say it was completely wrong. and then questions about the mediation scheme and what it was going to cost. why did you write an e—mail which says, "when we discuss this, the hope of mediation was to avoid or minimise compensation"? because that was what we discussed. right, but... sorry, but not as the purpose of doing it, but one of the aspects. the hope. possibly, yes. and then emotion as she explains why she had to step back from her role for family reasons in 2019 in the midst of the high court legal battle. is that right? yes, that's right. she'll face the postmasters' lawyers tomorrow. emma simpson, bbc news, at the post office inquiry. our top story this evening: the first full day of general election campaigning is under way. rishi sunak zigzags across brtiain whil
this is susan crichton — she was post office's top lawyer then, but she was sent out from the board meeting that soon followed. she had been due to present a paper about past prosecutions. what would you say to the suggestion that this is the executive team shielding the board from the executive team's dirty laundry? i'd say it was completely wrong. and then questions about the mediation scheme and what it was going to cost. why did you write an e—mail which says, "when we discuss...
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May 23, 2024
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this is susan crichton — she was post office's top lawyer then, but she was sent out from the board meeting that soon followed. she had been due to present a paper about past prosecutions. what would you say to the suggestion that this is the executive team shielding the board from the executive team's dirty laundry? i'd say it was completely wrong. and then questions about the mediation scheme and what it was going to cost. why did you write an e—mail which says, "when we discuss this, the hope of mediation was to avoid or minimise compensation"? because that was what we discussed. right, but... sorry, but not as the purpose of doing it, but one of the aspects. the hope. possibly, yes. and then emotion as she explains why she had to step back from her role for family reasons in 2019 in the midst of the high court legal battle. is that right? yes, that's right. she'll face the postmasters�* lawyers tomorrow. emma simpson, bbc news, at the post office inquiry. a reminderyou can a reminder you can follow that and create _ a reminder you can follow that and create live — a reminder you c
this is susan crichton — she was post office's top lawyer then, but she was sent out from the board meeting that soon followed. she had been due to present a paper about past prosecutions. what would you say to the suggestion that this is the executive team shielding the board from the executive team's dirty laundry? i'd say it was completely wrong. and then questions about the mediation scheme and what it was going to cost. why did you write an e—mail which says, "when we discuss...
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May 26, 2024
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crichton, outside of meetings , waiting in the of meetings, waiting in the corridor, like a subordinate who was a very important part within the organisation to ensure that the organisation to ensure that the post office itself complied with the laws of the land. and it's quite clear that what what was happening was paula vennells had got her own agenda. she wanted to be in the limelight, take all the credit , and it take all the credit, and it didn't matter how she achieved that , didn't matter how she achieved that, michael. >> she said that she and i quote, she said she loved the post office and she did the best job. and she wanted the post office to thrive for the whole office to thrive for the whole of the united kingdom, the sam stein case for the prosecution then said, actually, that was absolute rubbish. would you concur? would you agree with that assessment? >> i would agree with his assessment, sam's pretty acute to picking up on these things because in general, i can assure you that, out of the 11,500 post offices within the network, the network of subpostmasters, they all lo
crichton, outside of meetings , waiting in the of meetings, waiting in the corridor, like a subordinate who was a very important part within the organisation to ensure that the organisation to ensure that the post office itself complied with the laws of the land. and it's quite clear that what what was happening was paula vennells had got her own agenda. she wanted to be in the limelight, take all the credit , and it take all the credit, and it didn't matter how she achieved that , didn't...
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May 24, 2024
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ahead of a crunch board meeting on the 16th ofjuly 2013, the post office's top lawyer, susan crichton, has testified that she told paula vennells about an expert witness in the trials whose evidence was unsafe and that subpostmasters could sue for malicious prosecution. but instead of being invited to brief the board, she told the inquiry she was kept out of the board meeting. she was made to wait outside on a chair. yes, and i felt bad about that. sitting there like a naughty schoolgirl? i have no recollection of that whatsoever. that would be very significant information, wouldn't it? it would. were you incompetent, paula vennells? - today, in her last day of evidence, ms vennells will face questions from the lawyers representing subpostmasters who were wrongly prosecuted or jailed. andy verity, bbc news, at the horizon inquiry. this is an important day for those people who were wrongly convicted? it really is. we always knew it was going to be an important few days at the inquiry but what nobody really knew was that by today, the names of the wrongfully convicted sub—postmasters
ahead of a crunch board meeting on the 16th ofjuly 2013, the post office's top lawyer, susan crichton, has testified that she told paula vennells about an expert witness in the trials whose evidence was unsafe and that subpostmasters could sue for malicious prosecution. but instead of being invited to brief the board, she told the inquiry she was kept out of the board meeting. she was made to wait outside on a chair. yes, and i felt bad about that. sitting there like a naughty schoolgirl? i...
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May 24, 2024
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crichton. >> what do you say to that? >> what do you say to that? >> i was briefed by susan that gareth jenkins could no longer be used. i'm not sure what you mean by risk that that what i know now is much more about this, that gareth jenkins hadn't been properly briefed in the first place. an expert witness. and but at the time that i had noidea and but at the time that i had no idea of the contents of the simon clarke advice , i want to simon clarke advice, i want to ask you, please , because i'm ask you, please, because i'm going to suggest to you that that you must have known about this by the end, of, august. >> and i want to take you to panel. >> and i want to take you to panel . 00108065. panel. 00108065. >> one, you can being asked a question, then it's gone very quiet in the most definitely. >> now, paula vennells, she has expressed emotion in the last 24 hours, so she has been reduced to tears. she's also said that she did her best, but it wasn't good enough . and this was good enough. and this was clearly a ver
crichton. >> what do you say to that? >> what do you say to that? >> i was briefed by susan that gareth jenkins could no longer be used. i'm not sure what you mean by risk that that what i know now is much more about this, that gareth jenkins hadn't been properly briefed in the first place. an expert witness. and but at the time that i had noidea and but at the time that i had no idea of the contents of the simon clarke advice , i want to simon clarke advice, i want to ask...
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May 22, 2024
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. >> in a note that alice perkins wrote before the departure of susan crichton to you, she said, quote , it's the fact that she quote, it's the fact that she that susan sees so much as beyond her control that's the problem. it's her alibi . do you problem. it's her alibi. do you think the same could be said as you of you know, definitely not. >> i, i asked questions, i oversaw the strategy, which would have introduced changes where we felt it was appropriate to the organisation . i probed, i to the organisation. i probed, i worked in a structured way and an informal way. i would walk around the desks in the organisation and talk to people just to find out what was going on. i was sometimes criticised in team development events for being too curious and stepping too much into people's territory . i don't think that's a criticism that could have been levelled at me . levelled at me. >> you tell us that you always enjoyed a good relationship with moya greene, the chief executive of royal mail group, in your witness statement. >> yeah, we had a good working relationship , skip, you say no
. >> in a note that alice perkins wrote before the departure of susan crichton to you, she said, quote , it's the fact that she quote, it's the fact that she that susan sees so much as beyond her control that's the problem. it's her alibi . do you problem. it's her alibi. do you think the same could be said as you of you know, definitely not. >> i, i asked questions, i oversaw the strategy, which would have introduced changes where we felt it was appropriate to the organisation . i...