this reporting allows— and jon venables. this reporting allows the — and jon venables.ublic— understanding and it allows the public to— understanding and it allows the public to have transparency in understanding the criminaljustice system _ understanding the criminal justice system in — understanding the criminaljustice system in the uk. it does restore faith— system in the uk. it does restore faith and — system in the uk. it does restore faith and actually it probably encourages some real debate about actually— encourages some real debate about actually social issues that are in existence — actually social issues that are in existence and hopefully how these kinds _ existence and hopefully how these kinds of _ existence and hopefully how these kinds of cases can be avoided. you seak of kinds of cases can be avoided. you speak of air _ kinds of cases can be avoided. warn. speak ofairabout kinds of cases can be avoided. warn. speak of air about these youngsters and of course they have been named and of course they have been named and you deal with a lot of families. hav

jon venables does not exist asjon venables.ssumed identity. it is possible that if these two ever get released label famous mac face —— they will face similar problems, people will find out their identities. that is an extra stress that will be placed on them if they are ever released from prison. there is also the risk when they go to prison. they are under they go to prison. they are under the age of 18 but went the other 18 they will go to an adult prison. faces and names are well known and what potential ramifications could that have and any attempt at rehabilitating them? i that have and any attempt at rehabilitating them?- that have and any attempt at rehabilitating them? i have also been speaking _ rehabilitating them? i have also been speaking to _ rehabilitating them? i have also been speaking to a _ rehabilitating them? i have also been speaking to a number- rehabilitating them? i have also been speaking to a number of. been speaking to a number of different gas here on bbc news and some of them are already calling fo

venables and robert thompson were 11 when they were convicted of abducting, torturing, murdering james thoughts of that case to many people here watching, listening, reading about this, but then they were given brand—new identities. could that happen for these two further down the line? it happen for these two further down the line? . , happen for these two further down the line? ., , ., happen for these two further down the line? , ., , ., , , the line? it may well do. obviously that then sparks _ the line? it may well do. obviously that then sparks another _ the line? it may well do. obviously that then sparks another public - that then sparks another public debate about the costs of all of those procedures having to be implemented. but we don't know what the future holds. it will be an incredibly long and difficult journey for all of the families that have been involved in this horrendous case. i have been involved in this horrendous case.- have been involved in this horrendous case. have been involved in this horrendouscase. ,, ., ., ., horrendous case. i know you are not the 'udue

you were talking to your last speaker about venables and thompson and there naming and what happenednamed by the criminal court and subsequently they a lifelong injunction through the civil court so that they can't ever be identified for the very same reason you were saying earlier about the families who might face death threats. i don't know whether these young people have siblings, though siblings, what will happen to those children and the knock—on consequences to them just by being related? d0 consequences to them 'ust by being related? ,, consequences to them 'ust by being related? , ., ~ consequences to them 'ust by being related? i. ~ ., related? do you think more weight should be put _ related? do you think more weight should be put on _ related? do you think more weight should be put on the _ related? do you think more weight should be put on the families - related? do you think more weight should be put on the families of i should be put on the families of those affected rather than naming them to try and more people were saying was to help with this public faith in this pu

i mean, people still don't know what those children , venables what those children, venables and thompsonon here. it was the most horrendous torture on this earth . so why should they be earth. so why should they be protected? they've never ever. yes, they've been arrested . yes, they've been arrested. they've been locked up, but they've been protected because people don't know who they are. >> well, what about the argument, by the way? i mean , it argument, by the way? i mean, it turned out that one of the killers of brianna had been was facing expulsion from her previous school for supposedly spiking a pupil with drugs and then had tried to drug brianna. the school weren't made aware. they didn't make people aware . they didn't make people aware. now the local council is getting involved , so they're launching involved, so they're launching an inquiry. i mean, how many inquiries do we need into all of these goodness sake? these things, for goodness sake? but what about the fact that brianna's dad has said, look, i don't think there should be named. why? because it gives them fame becaus

lieutenant colonel charles venable. he was called faithful old venable. by lee venable is 19 years younger than lee. but professor math at the university of virginia is born in farmville, a house called longwood house, which is actually the same house that joe johnson was born in. kind of an interesting little tidbit of fact. they're charles b cook was born in 1838 in portsmouth. graduated vmi. although at one time he was expelled and then was allowed to come back on the staff of bragg at shiloh. he became inspector general on lee's staff. wounded at sailors creek, kept a diary of the war. and he died in 1937. but he was the oldest, surviving member of lee staff. he was interviewed by a south african, which is interesting. he his diary and papers are at the virginia historical society. charles marshall, born in warrenton. matt, you notice that these guys are all from virginia, right? he wrote most of lee's after action report. marshall delivered the dedication address for the monuments to lee and the monument to grant and new york city cousin of george c

uh, the venables and johnson., um , and robert the venables, um, and robert thompson cases that there have been recalls to prison because on licence they haven't, uh, complied with their conditions post release. >> so isn't this the concern for many, many people, particularly with someone like venables, so depraved at such a young age ? depraved at such a young age? clearly, prison did not fix him. clearly, prison did not fix him. clearly there are some people in society who cannot be fixed, and reading the gruesome details, the obsession of these two, then 15 year olds, now 16 year olds, with a series of serial killers, their kill list, their meticulous, nicely planned attack . these were intelligent attack. these were intelligent children who planned to kill because they enjoyed it . i find because they enjoyed it. i find it very hard to believe and i would very much doubt that many people in this country would believe that these are people who could be reformed. they could be out in their 30s, they could be out

become quite notorious after being named, let me refer you to one of the most famous examples, jon venablespson, they were both 11 when they were convicted of abducting, torturing and murdering james bolger. many people will remember this case back in 1993. how do you think this notoriety can affect the pair? it do you think this notoriety can affect the pair?— do you think this notoriety can affect the pair? it is the notoriety that they are _ affect the pair? it is the notoriety that they are part _ affect the pair? it is the notoriety that they are part of, _ affect the pair? it is the notoriety that they are part of, it _ affect the pair? it is the notoriety that they are part of, it is - affect the pair? it is the notoriety that they are part of, it is not - affect the pair? it is the notoriety that they are part of, it is not the j that they are part of, it is not the fact that they have been named that makes the case notorious. in that case it was the circumstances of the rather savage killing of the child, delivering the killing of the child. and just how shocking that was to people

we saw with thompson and venables, who killed jamie bulger, they were given new identities that werewere often outed. the judge in this case said this was exceptional. - were often outed. the judge in this case said this was exceptional. in l case said this was exceptional. in terms of the details that we've been hearing, particularly today, the judge said scarlettejenkinson particularly enjoyed what she did and she remained dangerous. she had this deep desire to kill somebody. i suppose thejudge did this deep desire to kill somebody. i suppose the judge did say they were going to turn 18 next year anyway and they would have been named than anyway. and they would have been named than an a . . �* , , and they would have been named than an a . ., �* , , �* , anyway. that's very true. it's unlikely they — anyway. that's very true. it's unlikely they would - anyway. that's very true. it's unlikely they would held - anyway. that's very true. it's | unlikely they would held hold anyway. that's very true. it's - unlikely they would held hold onto anonymity. i think there was a lot of specul

and then if we look at james bulger's killers, venables , these guys venables especially, these guysey know there were ten when they committed but eight committed the murders, but eight years and venables years is nothing. and venables was recalled to jail . he's was recalled twice to jail. he's now in jail. he was given a new identity, he was very proud identity, but he was very proud of his and was telling of his crimes and was telling people real names. why people his real names. so why should give people new should we give people new identities? it's you're supposed. >> forgive me, paul, that that's our failing, it? um, in our failing, isn't it? um, in the sense that i'm not. i'm not trying to, um , uh, advocate on trying to, um, uh, advocate on behalf of venables at all. however um, if he's come out proud of what he's done, i mean, the rehabilitate in the system , the rehabilitate in the system, um, hasn't worked in his case, has it? >> but why are we bothering as a country to spend a fortune on, um, trying to rehabilitate people that can't be rehabilitate . and it's been a reha

be that of james bolger killers of most well—known case would be that ofjames bolger killers ofjon venablese ten at the time. they had an anonymity but were named at the end of their trial in 1994, if you look more recently in 2014, a killer was 15 when he stabbed his teacher anne mcguire to death at his school in leeds. he was named at the end of his trial as well so it does happen but this is a fairly rare occurrence.— but this is a fairly rare occurrence. , ., , ,., , , occurrence. yes, absolutely, it is . uite occurrence. yes, absolutely, it is quite rare — occurrence. yes, absolutely, it is quite rare and — occurrence. yes, absolutely, it is quite rare and when _ occurrence. yes, absolutely, it is quite rare and when these - occurrence. yes, absolutely, it is- quite rare and when these youngsters do get named in public, they do tend to become notorious. just why we have rowan there, i wanted to bring you some pictures we are just getting here at bbc news. this is a moving footage we are getting from cheshire police of the arrest of scarlettjenkinson. these are the moving images we are

mary bell killed two toddlers, jon venables and robert thompson murdered james bulger.ad a smile on his face. you know, i was speaking to ann on the saturday morning. the next time i saw ann, i was standing over her body in a mortuary. with...with eight stab wounds. whenjames bulger�*s murderers were tried, the case against them was led by sir richard henriques. after being found guilty, they were also named. now he says it's right the public know who brianna's killers really are for the greater good of society. there is much, much good to follow if these cases are examined very fully and the public know what went wrong in that particular family. only then can we ask ourselves the question, could this happen in ourfamily? because at the moment we don't know what went wrong. not everyone's in favour of courts identifying young offenders. the naming of them and the shaming of them is a barrier to rehabilitation. we know that it creates troubles for their safety in prison, but then also upon release, because these are children at the end of the day. and they need to be abl

, they actually, and venables, they actually, i think they've been put into witness protection.. um, and i think the same thing will happen because they will be incarcerated. i think, uh, justice yip said for 30 years, was it the sentence ? yes, yes. >> um, so they're only 16 now. >> um, so they're only 16 now. >> um, so they're only 16 now. >> um, so they will still have, you know, a formative life after sentence . well, well, it's 22 sentence. well, well, it's 22 years and 20 years. um, but as you say, they must serve a minimum of 20 years. and they are only 16 now. >> yes. um and brianna has no more life. >> absolutely . and, um, the one >> absolutely. and, um, the one thing i would say, which i just think is really important, is the, uh, and i don't know if it's talked about enough, it's been talked about enough, which is and there's no blame, there's absolutely. which is and there's no blame, therit's absolutely. which is and there's no blame, therit's the absolutely. which is and there's no blame, therit's the ills, absolutely. which is and there's no blame, therit's the i

. >> look the point, >> but you look at the point, you at venables and you look at venables and thompson> absolutely. yeah. >> and the other hasn't. >> and the other one hasn't. >> and the other one hasn't. >> and the other one hasn't. >> and they they >> and that's it. and they they need. of those two boys who need. so of those two boys who committed same crime, there committed the same crime, there have been two very, very different outcomes. it's different outcomes. so it's worth remember two worth always remember that two paths possible. but but paths are possible. but but equally board that set equally the board that set before reviewed cases before them reviewed their cases and freed and ultimately freed them made a mistake . mistake with venables. >> again they released >> time and again they released him twice. he had to be him at least twice. he had to be called back in because every single time got it wrong, he single time he got it wrong, he went to old ways. went back to his old ways. >> right. let's change tack. went back to his old ways. >> ringe_et's change tack. went back

mary bell and 1968 killed two toddlers in newcastle upon tyne, robert thompson and jon venables in 1983, the law - james bulger. if children are guilty of serious violence, the law is - of serious violence, the law is clear. judges can name them because the community has a right to know the community has a right to know the full facts, who did it, why did they do it, what lessons can we learn? judges regularly named teenagers guilty of horrendous knife and gang killings like... teenagers guilty of horrendous knife and gang killings like. . .— and gang killings like... naming and shamina as and gang killings like... naming and shaming as a _ and gang killings like... naming and shaming as a barrier— and gang killings like... naming and shaming as a barrier to _ shaming as a barrier to rehabilitation because these are children at the end of the day and they need to be given the space to grow and move beyond the crime. throughout the trial brianna ghey's were anonymous, now they are named, if one day they are safe to leave jail, they might be given a secret new identities but for now every

my name is sarah hoffman, and i'm an attorney at venable. so first up, we acknowledge that this application represents a balancing act for you. and as an organization that works to help the unhoused, awschalom understands the importance of housing. indeed it's maintaining the residential use in the rear cottage, which, as you've heard, is currently occupied. but under section 317 of the planning code , housing is not the only consideration before you today. rather, the code allows the commission to consider a range of important policies and in recent years, the commission has approved residential conversions, including adding of rent controlled units. because the projects community benefit tipped the balance in favor of approval. here you have the discretion to ask will the project provide desirable new nonresidential uses, or will the project support the courtland ave community corridor, a commercial corridor, a key community hub? will the project enrich the religious and cultural diversity of the neighborhood? the answer to all of these qu