the confrontation of the two most important antagonists of the 21st century, the united states and china, and these days it is there in asia that the epicenter of the world geopolitical game is located. there continues the asian tour of the president of the united states, biden visited south korea over the weekend. and today began his visit to the capital of the most loyal and most important ally of the united states in the region. tokyo there biden was received by the emperor of japan naruhito and held talks with the prime minister of the land of the rising sun, but alas, descending into recent months subjectivity fumioksidoy. tomorrow. the summit of the so -called quantum will also take place in tokyo. this is a four- way partnership of the united states of japan india and australia, and biden and kisidia will be joined respectively by indian prime minister render vogue and the new australian prime minister anthony albonese. the main goal of this biden tour.

consolidate as much as possible asian allies and partners in the united states against china and russia, and also make sure that the pacific region is dominated by the american, not the chinese or any other international order, both in the field of security and in the field of economy. and today we will talk about this policy of the united states and also about the prospects for the international order in general with the president of the center of the national interest in washington and the co-host of the big game, dimitri simons. dmitry, hello, hello, and dmitry well, before we move on to issues of international order, i cannot but ask you about the statement that a canoe made in tokyo today, in response to a journalist's question. will they join the united states will go to war if beijing uh makes a military attack on taiwan, president biden answered yes, yes and uh, this is indeed a very strong statement means. this is dmitry, in your

opinion, the united states has already decided, without finishing with russia, so to speak, to strengthen the policy of containing china, and moreover, that the united states is moving away from the traditional policy of strategic uncertainty regarding taiwan, e, dmitry is a good difficult question. well, on the surface, everything is obvious biden said what he said he answered a very short question was asked . will the united states defend taiwan if it supports chinese attack, biden replied, briefly, yes? it would seem that everything is clear. well, remember at one time, he briefly answered, yes, to the question of whether putin is a war criminal, and then, uh, the white house sort of immediately began to explain that he expressed his emotional uh, if you want the mood and that's why it was so easy and just answer. but when it comes to american policy towards russia and its president personally.

you are much more difficult. and the same thing happened in this case, the white house almost immediately began to explain that yes really did, the statement that he made, but everything he had in mind. is that the united states if china attacks taiwan that the united states will help? uh taiwan arms ammunition and so on. well, i think that biden is a fairly experienced politician and understands enough the difference between what they say when you arm someone and when you yourself are going to take part in hostilities. he clearly gave the impression that the united states would take part in the hostilities. then it turned out that this was not in line with american policy. slandered, zion was misunderstood, huh?

was it difficult for him? it's just that there have been several such cases to clearly formulate one's thoughts, and especially situations where there really is no such simple, unambiguous answer. no, i don’t presume to judge, but i can say with certainty that this, of course, was the last statement the united states needs it on the eve of this quarter meeting, because they tried to convince the countries of the region and, of course, china, that this was not an attempt to encircle china, and moreover, they were beijing. yes, we have serious disagreements with you, but unlike russia, we are not conducting an all-out offensive against you. we are not planning or considering any military action against you. this is a completely different situation and please do not be guided by what is happening between us and russia

when determining your position regarding ukraine. well, but the way it was formulated by biden is the main question. will the united states be ready to take military action against china, the answer, of course, was. on the opposite of what it would be. well, if you like, it's useful for the united states to have this accepted in china, and i think that, of course, there may be some inaccurate wording. it happens to all of us, especially when really difficult questions, the brilliance of television cameras, who did not make a reservation, and from time to time i sin professionally, tv presenters say this from time to time. even as accurate a man on television as reagan, he had a couple of serious reservations, but it happens all too often and most, if you want, unpleasant moments. and you start to think that maybe it's not just a matter of how to say

some of its imperfections. but what in this case, what does a have on the mind of the president. e in private what he really thinks sometimes starts. such situations under stress break to the surface under those conditions. i am i think this is how his statement will most likely be perceived in beijing dmitry i fully agree with your last words and it really seems that what the biden administration has in mind, joseph biden himself has in his mouth, because in the last few weeks and especially during the days in the united states, there really was a very serious and active discourse that the united states position on the taiwan issue should change in the direction of hardening. there was a series of articles where experts, in including, uh, council forwardation councils on

foreign relations wrote exactly what baitang said, that the policy of strategic uncertainty does not have a sufficient deterrent effect on china in the current conditions and therefore the united states should and increase military supplies. uh, to taiwan and openly say that they are ready to go to war with the people's republic of china if china tries to restore control over taiwan by force, american analysts wrote about this, and the nbc television channel. even showed a simulation of a war between the united states and china, which was played out by the center for new american centers for a new american security, by the way, very close to the biden administration its uh, the founder is the former us deputy secretary of defense uh, michel flornoy and after all, what biden said, biden, did not stop at the word . yes. biden, biden

, then substantiated and developed his idea. he said that look, the sanctions didn’t hold back russia they didn’t hold back vladimir putin yes, the united states promised russia sanctions, but nevertheless russia went to a its special. the military operation in ukraine therefore, the biden concludes, and the threat of sanctions against china and the position of strategic uncertainty on taiwan does not sufficiently deter the picket and therefore the united states should harden its point of view. so, indeed, it was read in moscow at least. that's what i'm asking dmitry. i'll just mention an episode from my personal life. e sorry, at first it will seem not directly related to the topic of our conversation. although with from my point of view has the most central relationship when i came to the united states to be almost 50 years ago. i met

such a very interesting person who was full of nice people and they always said that a fat man should either become a minister. e defense or secretary of state. he was one of the richest american entrepreneur diplomats. uh, a very echo of emotions man even chaired the danger committee at one time during the cold war, and then he was accused of making too many concessions in moscow in negotiations on medium nuclear in the body range, but that's not the point. he said he wanted to introduce me to important washington lovers and, uh, invited me to dinner. and there, uh, i actually met some very interesting people with very famous names. uh, including, say, former secretary of defense bob mcnamara. by this time he was no longer a minister, but including the former attorney general, who had just resigned and

over the protest against nixon's behavior, because the most for me was bob the cold and the boss office of the white house, which was very interesting for me. here, as a person from all this kitchen and with all these people who are not familiar. i assumed they were mortal opponents. and how would they kill each other, or at least plan gene powerfully, and here i look, they all sit by their first name, chat, laugh. after dinner, he smokes cigars together. i made two outputs. well first, to washington indeed , there is tolerance that is lauded from western democracy. well, frankly, it's not always was present, but the second i said to myself. but, probably, it is possible to negotiate with these people, because if they are so ready to be, tolerant with each other and negotiate with each other, then,

probably, this is something that should be. uh, if you want to superimpose them on their approach to international relations with them. you can negotiate with them , you can conduct constructive negotiations. and that's how it has been for many years. this has changed within the country to extreme polarization, mutual intolerance and parts of mutual hatred and attempts to demonize each other, that the one in moscow will be surprised that they demonize putin when they demonize each other all the time. this is a normal parliamentary conversation to accuse each other of a public change of state or complete intolerance in kinship. and so, when uh hmm this intolerance was added, and what is perceived as the victory in the cold war, when the european union turned from an economic organization into a political organization, and in general became an alliance, if you want, uh crusaders,

here in this collective west, in which are included uh and the leaders of the countries that are currently in the top. naturally. japan australia, they had a sense of their mission as a teacher, they had not just a rejection of other points of view. they developed a terrible annoyance when faced with other points of view. and when someone tells them, like russia, that we not only do not agree, but we will not allow it. we will fight this. this causes dmitry, from my point of view, sincere indignation and fury, and there was a hope that china would not join the russian reaction, because that china has a different culture, because china has a different idea. and if you want to talk about the meaning of time in russia, they count it in years, but in china

it was decades and centuries, and in china not everyone understood it. why did russia go for its operation in ukraine, and in general, this is it, but if you want, it was not the chinese agenda. and they were not ready to condemn russia from russia to break. but, if you like, i have a feeling that there was a certain bewilderment, and, as it were, we will see desire in the rain, before going towards russia, and now now after yesterday's biden statement. i spoke to a very senior asian diplomat. i won't call him by his first name, and i won't even name his country, because it will immediately become clear to some who he is? ah, but he told me, you know, this is one of those situations where what is said, the masks are dropped, this is, if you like, not a free signal to china and what is not, in

no other category from the point of view of the collective west, they are not chinese are, what if they are ready to put pressure on them in this way, and when does it happen? nation of conflict with russia, you can imagine what would happen if russia were defeated in this fight, that china would not be able to put it mildly, it would be better not to bet. i say ok, this is an important point of view. well, here are the practical consequences of it. and a man told me, you know. this is probably to exacerbate what is already happening exactly. that sino-russian relations in the light of the conflict in ukraine were, as it were, on two levels? at the strategic level where in their leadership sympathized with russia and supported it and at the commercial level where the company has its own

big interests, and they don't want to rock the boat. that's what this former ambassador told me. now the strategic level will become even more necessary to dominate over the commercial one, and one can expect that china will not only, uh, be even more dissatisfied with the united states, but the chinese leadership will, to a greater extent than before, begin to instruct chinese companies to try to meet russia again- yet, without burning bridges by western partners, but burning bridges, not chinese method. well, the more towards russia than before. and this may turn out to be very significant, and this is already happening, dmitry, because indeed china is not interested in losing to russia. china is not interested in russian weakening. china understands that russia is fighting for a new world order. and in general for the

international order. but what will it be like? will the revival of western hegemony be on a global scale or will it be polycentric? and a world without a single ideology for all and a basket of values ​​and without one pole of power and but the history of us-china relations over the past few years. it seems to me irrefutably proves that the global conflict that we are witnessing today , including the conflict between russia and the united states, is not the result of, but, let's say, an overly offensive russian foreign policy and the actions that russia took first with respect to georgia and then with respect to ukraine namely , as a result of the fact that the strengthening of russia , china, changes in the international balance of power threw a challenge to american leadership, american primacy and american hegemony, and the united states cannot accept it. we touched

on issues of international order. but here's the fundamental problem. it seems to me that the united states is equating the international order in general with the system of institutions of rules and relations that the united states has built around itself and which is based on american leadership. indeed, after the end of world war ii, the united states created a very impressive and unprecedented system of institutions both in the field of security and in the field of economy. but after the end of the cold war, the united states tried to spread this system to the whole world and said that this is what we built and the nato international monetary fund. the world bank, yes, where we dominate, this is the international order. yes, here is a very famous american uh, nauconservative bobcaine, who is also a husband. ah, victoria nuland. e

wrote a book that reflects this approach the book is called the world americanate. yes, the world you build. usa yes, almost like the house that jack built right here the world that the usa built here, the united states at least the american mainstream really thinks. and what is it that they created this is the international order, and by doing so they tried to replace the international order, which is based on the united nations organization, with their own international order. it didn't work out. yes, and we see that china russia many other countries of the world opposed, but today in this way, the united states is trying to build a bipolar world. if the international order could not be universalized by the americans, then, well, let's at least recreate a system similar to the cold war. let's make a bipolar world, where there will be two international orders, relatively

speaking, again, the american international order and the international order of authoritarian so -called states. you know, i quite agree with what you said about one important an exception and maybe that's the issue. u phraseology, they are in fact, then correct me, but you and many others in moscow often say, the united states did the united states built the united states decided. yes, the united states has decided a lot of things and is trying to build a lot of things, sometimes it even comes out. well , from my point of view, we would not be in the situation in which we are, if it had not arisen, this geopolitical and economic monster, which is called the european union. and if he had his own logic by virtue of his evolution. he joined the american representation not only of economic interests, but sincerely

joined the american model of political carat. and here it is created. about this new bloc, which i conditionally call the collective west, although it also includes japan, australia has created a false sense of invulnerability in them, and in part. this, of course, is built on their real colossal military and economic capabilities, which should not be underestimated, especially for those who go into conflict with this collective west, but there is less and less of a problem in the khanakolative west , as i tried to say, they are used to trying to understand what other people think. what, for example, is the difference between the russian people and the bourgeois inhabitants of the european union and the united states, and this is a colossal difference that is not always visible, because people

often walk well and others speak english dressed, in both suits of the same type, and sometimes they walk together to some conferences. well , uh, a very big discrepancy in the core values ​​in life and how they make decisions. and this is an old mistake of the conquerors of russia to those who claimed to be the conqueror here napoleonovna, that he was a great man, and he was still a correct scientist. he also won the first victories, won the clash with russia when he led the whole of europe , the collective west followed him and, in general, military clashes, the preliminary first ones, were almost all of his belts one way or another. and you know now, from my point of view, dmitry napoleon didn’t understand, he didn’t understand that when russia is faced with such a challenge, in contrast, let’s say from berlin and vienna. they don't lead, they don't send

blissmen to hand over the keys to the winner. they burn moscow and they strain all their strength and wait for their moment. and so, in the west, many do not understand about them, but somehow stalin did not surrender leningrad and withstood this terrible blockade. that's how they could defeat stalingrad well, go, there was your own logic, he had such a superiority of forces there , it seemed, everything is clear. and we know how it ended. it seems to me that in the collective west there is no understanding of what and to whom they raise their hand and how it can end, and i i say not for the purpose of intimidation, because the last thing i want here for such a terrible brawl is to do, but i believe that the responsible leaders of the countries of the west they should understand what they are messing with. where

can it go, huh? dmitry well, firstly, i completely agree with you, and in the west, apparently, they forgot the russian history, uh, which says that russia did not lose a single patriotic war . russia in general rarely loses wars, but it is especially not about russia more and more perceives like domestic wars, yes, and i'm leading to this. yes, the current situation is increasingly perceived in the russian public socio-political scientific discourse as the patriotic war, because we are talking about a hybrid war of the west against russia, and russia does not lose domestic wars. she always wins. and how will russia react to the policies that the united states is pursuing today, well, being a responsible global power. and, of course, russia will not use nuclear weapons and

russia will not go to a direct military clash. at least now, and firstly, and from the russian point of view, the west itself is already depleted, especially europe, but we are also already seeing changes and the first signs of depletion in the united states, domestic political economic even partly military-political, therefore, the victory of russia in ukraine, while that russia still does not spend non-mobilized, but large, and military forces and continues, and actually conduct a special operation with one hand, and with the left. this is exactly what will show. uh, russian success is exactly that will be a response to the hybrid war that is now being waged against russia. in addition, well, there is a hybrid war, a hybrid war and, accordingly, it is also necessary to respond hybridly, it is necessary to create conditions under which, uh, the united states and the european union suffer

economic damage. judgment economic damage and will this economic damage will intensify. yes, secondly, u we see a very serious struggle for the third world and the united states has shown an inability to mobilize the third world u not western countries uh against russia therefore, the continuation of even the current trends, but exhausting not only and not so much russia. yes, and it seems to me that at a certain stage the united states will come to the conclusion that it is enough and necessary, e.g., to negotiate and settle. eh, the current situation, but you dmitry also raised a very interesting question about the rejection by the united states of other people's values, a and other people's development models. well, indeed, in russia they often ask the question. can the united states be? well, a conditionally normal country normal country, yes, which pursues a policy in

accordance with national interests. which is not trying to remake the rest of the world around itself, and on the one hand, the fact that the united states is now no longer an undeniable world hegemot, that the united states has become involved in a double confrontation with russia and china and the relative weakening of the united states is officially recognized just the other day i spoke about this chief of the joint chiefs of staff. e, the united states e. mark milli. this is what uh says. e. this creates the prerequisites for strengthening realism in american foreign policy, because, nevertheless, during the cold war, and the 20th century , realism prevailed in us foreign policy . yes, namely containment, but on the other hand, dmitry, those inward political tendencies in the united states

that you mentioned, but strengthening. sterilization intolerance yes, precisely the intolerance that characterizes the current democrats, especially the left one. uh, the wing of the democrats is a new political culture, culture, cancellation, because the culture of cancellation is not only russia, but the culture of cancellation is not of those who do not agree with the imposed, uh, neoliberal values ​​within the united states itself, these are domestic political trends, alas, but, unfortunately, uh , say that it is unlikely that the united states will be able to recognize e in the foreseeable future. eh, here. this is pluralism and heterogeneity. e of the world in terms of value in any case, dmitry thank you so much for today, of course, and i think, e that, fortunately, we will not reach the use of nuclear weapons. and at least i am sure that the

russian leadership will be like the american leadership. who is this kind of escalation to be extremely cautious, but unlike you, i am in washington and not in moscow and i think about what the american leadership has long been concerned about, and i would not take it for granted if i were the american leadership, that it is possible to steal ukraine without limit and help ukraine to conduct attacks on operations so that we are not the same escalation, which we absolutely do not need and which cannot be allowed and the last thing about american political culture. there have been significant, disturbing changes. but what is happening now from my point of view is extreme. and if, as public opinion simply shows, the republicans will especially win the next presidential election. looks like donald trump to me. yes, i'm not in the spirit that the

united states will start hugging and kissing russia, but i think that the messianic spirit that reigns in the biden administration today. i am i think that this messianic house spirit, uh, it would be put under constructive control. dmitry thank you so much, as always, for an exceptionally interesting conversation, and we will continue to talk with you about the problems of russian american relations, us foreign policy and the international order, and next time, the big game program will return in a few moments. were waiting every time you are delayed at the airfield. i'm worried, forgive my curiosity, who is this german woman, with whom she is also a student because of austria conservatory. tonight, the guys will get in touch for the last time, the transmitter will sort out the lake nearby. i won't be able to see you anymore. no,

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the main instruments of the policy of hybrid war that the united states and its satellites are waging against russia is the supply of an increasing number of weapons to ukraine. and in doing so, they seek to delay as much as possible. ah, the course of the military conflict. today in washington passes. the second meeting of the so-called contact group on defense for the defense of ukraine and this group was created a month ago in april at the ramstein base when the united states secretary of defense floyd austin gathered those countries of representatives, those countries that are ready to deliver and are being substituted, together with the united states, to ukraine, and weapons are passing through today. the second meeting of this contact group and before this meeting there were two very interesting pieces of news. on the one hand, josé barrel

is the high representative of the european union for foreign and security policy. he said that the resources of the european union have been exhausted. yes, by and large, in europe there is no longer anything to supply to ukraine, everything that it could have already delivered, but on the other hand. ah, joe biden. uh, while still in seoul signed a law about, which was recently adopted by congress on the allocation of a new aid package to ukraine as much as 40 billion dollars, of which about 20 e are for military assistance. at least and it must be said that in the united states itself there is no unequivocal attitude towards this action. and on the one hand. of course, there are those who believe that they are. uh, such assistance will allow ukraine to allegedly win the war. and not just, uh, to defend, to defend, to win, uh, in a war and a vivid example of this position

is the leader of the republicans in the senate. mitch maconal, uh, who stated. that the funds provided will allow ukraine supposedly to go on the offensive on land, and even as he said to unblock the port of odessa, that is, apparently, he means to inflict some kind of strike on the russian black sea fleet on the other hand, voices are becoming more and more active in the united states those who consider american policy, which is aimed at prolonging the war to the maximum and thereby weakening russia, is wrong, and they doubt and in the expediency of allocating something similar to ukraine. eh, the amount of funds and that one can even talk about this task to weaken russia today, for example, it was precisely such a skeptical point of view expressed by henry kinsenger, the patriarch of american foreign policy, a former secretary of state and national security adviser to administrations. uh,

nixon and uh, ford here is henry kissinger, just you see him saying. today done dovodskoy forum, and he said it was necessary. a start uh, negotiations need a neutral status of ukraine and a. it is necessary to start negotiations. oh, and within the next two months. e to prevent some catastrophe. and also among such skeptics, as it turned out. just the other day, the editors of a mainstream american and liberal newspaper, the new york times pro-democracy newspaper, the new york times, joined in. and here's an excerpt from, uh, editorial. new york times. listen to get involved in a full-scale war with russia and in the interests of america, even if to achieve peace through negotiations with ukraine difficult decisions will be required to support the war. away from the shores of the us society, inflation will not continue indefinitely is a

much more serious problem for american voters than the ukrainian issues and disruptions in global markets. pleasure and energy is likely to increase ukraine's convincing military victory over russia in which it will return all the territories occupied by russia since 2014 is unrealistic, if the conflict reaches the stage of negotiations, ukrainian leaders will be forced to solve painful territorial issues, in order to reach a compromise if the war continues , biden should clearly indicate to zelensky and his team the limits of political, financial and military support from the united states and nato igor yuryevich who is right? maconal sword or henry kisenger and editors, new york times. well, i would like to point out, of course, i am not henry kistinger. this is a person who remembers the worst times of the cold war and the nuclear confrontation between the two blocs, the warsaw pact and nato, remembers detente, but also remembers

return again to the worst times that have come. today, in principle, in this historical process. and that is why his opinion is found, it seems to me that it is quite significant, because he is a prominent representative of the american establishment. still, he advocates the cessation of hostilities for a neutral non- bloc status of ukraine, which is very significant. it seems to me that this is not only the opinion of the patriarch, but also the part. for those american elites who still more soberly and realistically assess the entry of hostilities in ukraine, it is clear that here initial hope. the west that the massive deliveries of javelins and other anti-tank stinger weapons will somehow slow down or reduce the possibility of the russian armed forces to initiate hostilities, this did not happen, and it was precisely because of these new realities that it was signed. here

is a new large-scale lend-lease assistance package in order to try already by supplying new heavy, more advanced systems. weapons, try to somehow change the current situation. on the other hand there is the statement of the barrel, indeed the european union has exhausted. the scale of further deliveries at its own expense, of course, the european union would like the united states to somehow finance or sponsor these further deliveries through the eu and nato, but we see that the united states does not do this. therefore, for many european countries, the limits of free supplies that go away like a black hole. we do not see any real success so far from the ukrainian army. the russian armed forces continue to grind these military deliveries, but even those heavy weapons systems that

have been delivered do not provide any significant advantage for ukraine, so a new reality is coming. this new reality will consist in the fact that now the expectation of western or american elites will be associated with the fact that trained combat crews, and from among the ukrainian military personnel who are being trained in the united states of great britain in poland in a number of other nato countries and in conjunction with these here are the new deliveries. they can give you some new benefits. but i think we will quickly see that these hopes will also become illusory. the military victory of the russian federation is inevitably a matter of time, and this is a calmly unhurried tactic, since time is now objectively working for us, it will still lead to the fact that a part of the influential throat is more realistic than the establishment in the usa and the european union

, they will still come to those the same conclusions that the italians have come to, who put forward their plans, and to the conclusion that, uh, to, to which henry kissinger has come but at the same time, we see the aggressive wing. this is the aggressive wing in the european union, i would say. here it is headed by ursula von derain, and she takes such a tough position here, much tougher than, for example. e guides. yes, we see the inflammatory policy of germany from other prominent figures, both in the european union and in the commission, well, of course, after all. the core of this policy is this line that joe biden is pursuing today. we see it goes on purpose escalation not only of the situation around ukraine, but also in the asia-pacific region, in this way the united states is trying to set fire to several large-scale major conflicts at once in order to win here

those positions that they do not consider necessary and appropriate for themselves. the york times is not kisenger's ideological ally, because keisanger is well-known and the patriarch of realism. and the new york times, after all, a liberal newspaper, a democratic newspaper, an oxygen republican, but nevertheless, they talk about the same thing and that's what even the new york times. i emphasize again. this is not an expert opinion. and this is the opinion of the editors. this is the editor's opinion. new york times. yes, it also suggests that the war of attrition is not beneficial to the united states, not counting. are the eggs evidence that the united states itself is already dwindling? yes, the new york times. i say again represents the democrats, and according to the latest public opinion polls, the most profound is the fall in biden's rating, namely among democrats, only 33% of the democratic electorate believe that the country is moving in the right

direction. well, america has enormous problems in the economy, an economy that 80% of gdp is any financial entertainment services, medical services, and only 10% is production, of course, in a situation where high energy prices are highly valuable for metal, high food prices . leads to a recession, and then, a crisis and the main such indicator is the stock market - the stock market, in which one way or another otherwise. that's 63% of american adults involved. yeah , and that's when eight trillion dollars suddenly disappears from this stock market. so here's once and first of this conflict. uh, it seems that maybe enough is enough, maybe we need to take care of our economy, and not give these 40 billion. although, if you look, uh, to whom they give these 40 billion, it turns out that ukraine will receive, maybe 8.8. uh, 20 billion billion. the pentagon immediately takes it for itself, of course. eh, everything. the rest goes to

european allies and strengthening in the presence of the united states in europe therefore here. uh, maybe it will work for just the us economy and uh for their war industrial complex and maybe that's what they do. uh, a little support for the economy a little. yes, but compared to the colossal problems already there, it was surprising to listen to the same biden, who said that america would show growth this year more than china . well, try to stand up without harm, what is called yes , i completely agree with you. this is generally a universal practice. e, western and foreign assistance, when the money remains with the donor, and not with the recipient. and the donor. yes, a only increases the dependence of this recipient on the donor. uh, here, ah, but ah, of course, the united states is trying to stimulate its military-industrial complex. and here are the europeans. they say that their

reserves are exhausted of course, now the europeans will also buy from the united states products for military production, yes, military equipment. and this will also contribute to the growth of the american military, specifically the american military, because europe, the technique remained only in museums. that 's right. but nonetheless. uh, the united states continues to use ukraine as cannon fodder, as expendable material in its policy of trying to restore its global leadership, and the united states use ukraine as a tool, as a pawn long before the start of the russian special operation, on the one hand, they incited ukraine to ensure that it took an increasingly rabid anti-russian stance and corresponding policies on the other hand, the united states deliberately carried out a military the development of ukrainian territory, thereby

deliberately violating russian red lines, but at the same time, without providing ukraine with security guarantees . yes, that is, not a, assuming no obligations to protect ukraine ukraine, and the recent political debates named after munch held in toronto, a, in which they participated on the one hand, became clear evidence and confirmation of just such a cynical approach of the united states. uh, prominent american realist scholars john wersheimer and stephen old are the ones who say that it is politics expansion of nato, it was american policy a that led to the current conflict, and in order to end the current conflict, it is necessary at least to take into account russian security interests, and on the other hand, those who disagree with this policy and those who believe what you need. e try. that's how to wage war to the last ukrainian. this is a former

united states ambassador. in russia, michael mcfall still heads the stanford university institute and is a former foreign secretary. poland is glad to sikorsky. listen to one of episode. i consider the most striking episode of this debate. since 2021, we have been constantly talking about the fact that ukraine will join nato, we have repeated it over and over again, you believed, it turns out our diplomats are lying. yes, yes, this is the real world, gentlemen. wait a minute, it turns out our diplomats are lying, but when they provide guarantees, then russia should believe them. here is my question, if the entry of ukraine into nato is absolutely impossible and russia does not need to worry about it, then why does nato not declare that they have reconsidered this issue and don't want to see ukraine as a member of nato if that never happens, why don't they

do something to stabilize the situation, because that would serve as an invitation for russia to start an invasion. it seems to me that this has already happened. vladimir alekseevich, how do you like this well, in general, you know that i am always a supporter of a demonstration, not western, not western. e way we're thinking. yes, so to speak, and in general the perception of reality. i think two things are very important here. first here directly. they say that the americans are lying, but we already know that they are the empire of lies. thank you very much that they confirm this on their own, the second very important point. they lied and took russia to ukraine well, in fact, they did not open any special planet for us, and we knew it that way. it’s just that they documented it, as they say, they confirmed it, but it’s very important that you said this is after all, no matter how we treat our american colleagues with skepticism, and in terms of strategic thinking

the fact that in recent years it has been declining unequivocally. eh, in general, a strategic perception of reality is very important, because there are still people like that who can be constructive in this process, but this is a passing era of that. about the great past, when two superpowers opposed. today, a completely new epoch is dawning. and, unfortunately, perhaps even such a great man as kissinger cannot follow the transformation of the world order, because he says that ukraine should be neutral this the issue could and should have been discussed before the start of the special operation to date, the dividing lines that have emerged in the world order thanks to this very policy of the fading hegemon. are such that the return of e to the previous status quo. uh, it's impossible to imagine, just as it's impossible to imagine those conditions of the security guarantee that russia was talking about. we proposed to talk about these

same security guarantees, kissinger, in fact. uh, turn the clock back, and he speaks. let's go back to who and uh, to the discussion we had before the special operation. but so much water has flowed back and forth, it is impossible to return the world has changed thanks to station pressure, thanks to the creation of artificial dividing lines, americans. after all , not only are they ready to fight to the last ukrainian, they are not ready to fight to the last european. and you will definitely say that now the europeans will start fleeing to the united states to buy weapons. this will enrich the american military-industrial complex and the american-centric world. by appearances will remain in some part of europe until it understands that its e is exactly the same as the comrade said about ukraine e that europe will be deceived in the same way gradually this awareness will come and it is very interesting what will arise then and in another world in the world not the west has such an impression, so to speak, but the americans

do not have any positive at all, it does not exist, and they know and remember it very well. this is the most e lies. eh, just in which americans today directly admit to remember. that, what was done about iraq what was done about afghanistan after all. here is a proposal to carry out uh gs7. uh, the big seven or six plus one whatever the six with one in e hiroshima that was announced today what is it, if not spit, what is it about? after all, the americans delivered the very blow, where exactly there? well, let them come there and repent of what they have done for the global security system; today the world is different and requires a guarantee of security for itself. i think uh when not the western world is watching these revelations of michael makfal and the statement of kosiakorsky's delight, but

that well, in fact, the united states was not going to accept ukraine into nato, but they just needed to unleash conflicts. they needed to provoke russia in order to create the current situation in europe, not western countries. very serious conclusions are unequivocal, but it must be said that not everyone in europe, of course, supports this american policy, but the cynical policy of war of attrition really does. uh, uh, igor yurievich already mentioned the position of italy which recently presented a plan for a peaceful settlement of the conflict in ukraine a. i would like to ask you to bring out the main provisions of this plan. ah, italian on the screen. this plan has already been presented to both russia and the united nations and, uh, the united states and ukraine . there

are security guarantees. it would seem that after all, russia offered all this a few months ago at the end of last year. well, i don't really think that this plan will actually form the basis of a peace settlement. at least now, but alexander vyacheslavovich, do n't you think that the very appearance of these plans suggests that europe, at least the large european countries, have already exhausted themselves. and that every further step by the united states to prolong the military conflict to wage a war of attrition will cause more and more resistance from rome paris berlin and we will see again very serious cracks in the atlantic community, the unity that has been presented to us as the greatest achievement of the biden administration in recent times. well, let's start with the fact that italy is the main bomb under the european economy, their colossal debt, er, which can now bring down. uh, the entire

european market contract the entire european banking system. uh, this is what uh is not allowed in europe at all further. eh, somehow independently lead. economic policy yes, europe is like this those who deal with securities, there they see how it all collapses. they have such an expression. it's just that it's falling rapidly and, uh, the more risks they see, the more rapidly the economy is falling, the more the mind turns on. yes , if it was possible once e not to look at the economy and think that a total economic war against russia would make russia scared , now it turns out that, firstly, it didn’t, and, secondly, europe suffers much more than e , the rest of the world from what they did and europe is the first. here in the western world is the zone

where this crisis will start a real economic crisis, that is, inflation, plus taxi stagnation further and worse, so i think we will continue to hear, uh, more reasonable. in the application, of course, all this is too late, of course, it all had to be done last year, but uh, i think that the economy yes , uh, they said remember. uh, clinton said when he was elected in economics. that's it, that is, and it won't be long before, er, they finally understand. how much did it cost them support for nazism in ukraine and what it results in. uh, but italy can't do anything . uh, if it is they will also continue to obey the euro-atlantic policy. i think it's not even just about the economy itself and it's not about the size of the economy, it's about who's more resilient we'll continue discussing

european politics, and in a few moments. glad to see you, my children. warfare. the first of the worldly things is. my service for you is not war, the frontier limits for gold the campaign will be led by a colonel. i'll give him a dozen recruit officers, there on the spot in siberia he will find everything he needs there, only no war. tobol from may 30 on the first gagarin you are at least a natural rurik, but do not interfere in the affairs of the sovereign , it’s not your concern how to be with china, i will decide, not you. discomfort and turbidity filtrum

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