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good evening, the big game is on the air, the main event of world politics today is undoubtedly the summit of the shanghai cooperation organization that started in samarkand, where vladimir putin participates and where eight countries are currently included, these are russia china india kazakhstan kyrgyzstan tajikistan uzbekistan and pakistan, but in the near future there will be nine in time as iran completes the process of joining the sco in the shanghai cooperation organization - this is the institutional pillar of greater eurasia, it is an organization that unites most of the eurasian massif. i would also say that this is a concentrated expression of a multipolar world. after all, it unites several great powers. of these, four nuclear powers,

the first third and sixth economies of the world, the sco countries - this is almost 3.3 billion people. here is what i said about this organization today. vladimir putin during meeting with the president of the people's republic of china. the task is to ensure the global strengthening of the sco as a platform for constructive and constructive interaction. the organization includes countries with different cultural and civilizational traditions, foreign policy guidelines and models of national development. however, building work on the principles of equality and mutual benefits, respect for each other's sovereignty and refusing to interfere in internal affairs, made it possible, by historical standards, to turn this organization into an effective mechanism . multilateral cooperation. of course, we will discuss today the results of the first day of the summit show with the prospect of relations between russia and china and

the prospect of relations between russia and other countries of the organization. and, of course, the reaction to all this from the united states with the president of the center for national interests dmitry saim and the scientific director of the institute of china and modern asia of the russian academy of sciences, director of the department of international relations of the higher school of economics alexander blokin dmitry alexander vladimirovich good evening. thank you very much, but the future world order, of course, today is being determined not only in samarkand to no lesser extent, it is being determined on the fronts of the russian special operation in ukraine and now we have direct communication with the head of the donetsk people's republic denis pushilin denis vladimirovich good evening. big. thank you for taking the time to join us. again. thank you very much, we understand how busy you are. and, of course, the first question for you. he is the most natural that comes off on your fronts. which environment, what are your concerns? well

, what are the hopes? and good evening, dmitry well , the situation remains difficult here, you should not hide it, but nevertheless at the moment. it can be called stable, taking into account the fact that there is an understanding in all areas of what is happening. e, what actions are to be taken in the very near future, that is, according to that plan, here, according to which we liberate the territory of the donetsk people's republic within the constitutional border, if we take it in specifics, that is probably the most critical moment right now. uh, the krasnolimansky district remains the site of the northern republic. we know that the situation is very tense now in the svyatogorsk area, but because the sanction that the enemy managed to hit after a limited number of people, including about 45 polish mercenaries. we know this. we are definitely a little smaller, and

representatives of the ukrainian armed forces are constantly trying. ah, to create an opportunity to cross and increase the number and of personnel and quantity, but of guns of ammunition, but in the allied forces these attempts are suppressed, and krasny liman and the city itself is under shelling as exactly today, but attempts by sabotage groups have become, uh, less frequent, because now the defense has already been built and the enemy, when trying, but to penetrate just by sabotage groups. he runs into very serious difficulties and, uh, fails. uh, as for the next section of the artyomovsky direction, here, uh, hmm, there are certain advances and and after nikolaevka nikolaevka the second

separate sections are controlled. the roads, which are already very significantly hindering the supply of the enemy’s artemov grouping, also part of the unit was entrenched before your forces were advancing correctly. yes , absolutely right. i'm on the artyomovsk direction. i’m talking specifically about the advancement of our forces, that is , two settlements have been liberated these are the last days, this is nikolaevka nikolaevka, the second a and e, in the artyomovsk industrial zone itself, there are also our units of the allied forces. ah, and there they are seriously strengthened enough the enemy is trying to knock them out, but nothing happens to the enemy, therefore, here we are deploying a further further operation to liberate. specifically, artyomovsk, if we take the gorlovka direction, this situation is there , uh, well, it is a stable opponent. uh, continues

shelling artillery. well i would say now. there are more exchanges of artillery taking place in this area. and further, if we take the audeyevsky direction, the enemy undertook. several attempts to break through towards the donetsk airport were defeated. that is, there is a group there were about 40 people, almost all of them were destroyed, and spartan units also attempted to direct the sand of the may day enemy to advance. that is, a also included bmp tanks also by our forces, but attempts by the enemy. here's to advance more general questions have been thwarted. if you don't mind, here are the events that took place a few days ago, and the so

-called successes that the ukrainian forces had. yes, to what extent is this connected with the emergence of new american and other weapons. is it possible to say what will the ukrainian army get in this case? new opportunities as a result of unprecedented assistance from the collective west expanded this answer in view of the fact that armament is certainly an important component, but if you are talking about the kharkov direction, then those brigades that were trained in the uk were also involved there a fairly serious number was included, and british and polish mercenaries. this information is already confirmed and in fact. now there a collision has occurred. e, if not myan, not

explicitly and without chevrons, but in fact this clash happened with nato precisely for this, due to success. and the ukrainian armed forces. but we can be called it is a full success. and the question is why, because there are elements of fascism now, it is fascism that i did not make a reservation, are manifested in relation to the civilian population and if from all e information sources. ah, the leadership of ukraine claims that they have liberated these settlements, then as we we see how information is now being distributed, and even from officials of the ukrainian regime, then these are repressions that are now deployed in relations, just all citizens, filtration measures, and so on. that is, we have more shocking information, that is. well, i think that's a different story. what happens to those people who are ordinary civilians . and what they have to go through now,

so success is conditional. that is, this is not quite a liberation by the ukrainian armed formations. does the weapon that is supplied in such quantity a and plus intelligence, which is also supplied by the nato bloc, influence ? eh, we draw the appropriate conclusions and take the necessary steps. this did not happen again, because we saw that there were attempts in the kherson direction, but more coordinated, probably, actions were more calibrated and the steps that were taken. they did not allow even a complete accounting of both weapons and air reconnaissance and other intelligence of the nato bloc to advance. he is in the kherson direction in kharkov. you have the situation so far. and denis vladimirovich what do you think? can the nature of the

special operation carried out by the russian federation and allied forces change in the near future? uh, the donetsk people's republic here, at least in the donetsk direction, but in order to, uh, not only resolve the situation that has developed around the red estuary, but also accelerate the liberation of the donetsk people's republic to intensify offensive on avdeevsky, and the direction on artyo. direction and uh, and so on. here, should we expect any changes on our part during the special operation? one way or another, he specifically military operation is a plan of action, and according to which a is the need to act, and the enemy. ah. it is possible, probably, to correct their appearance by the actions of this plan, that is, based, probably, on the basis of the existing realities. i can say that here in this respect it is absolutely accurate, and the position of the residents of donbass is on everything that is happening.

inadmissibility of excessive softness and excessive pity towards the enemy. why because and we are somewhere modest in relation to. uh, to some objects even of military infrastructure, and the enemy does not absolutely take into account the objects of civilian critical infrastructure. if we, let's look at one of the biggest problems in our residents is the provision of water, then this water is scarce, water is supplied every 2-3 days, and even then not everywhere. and we got involved. there are a lot of resources there, there is also the supply of water and so on. not because we have a bad situation due to the work of public utilities or any other administrative bodies, but because of the bodies. and this is a real water cloud, yes from the side of the ukrainian regime, that is, these are deliberate actions for

bringing. here, in fact, up to the epidemiological catastrophe on the part of the armed forces of ukraine, that is, the severskaya canal was deliberately stopped, water pumping stations were deliberately destroyed in donetsk, and, of course. here is the result of what they do in relation to civil. and if we look at the energy sector, listen only for today, and without electricity, and about 50,000 subscribers remained, because the enemy fired purposefully. here, with today's shelling of donetsk a to a. the rebels destroyed 4 substations, so 50,000 subscribers were left without electricity. and this is hospitals. these are schools and other institutions. that is, these are just objects of civil-phytic infrastructure. and so, of course, we ask ourselves the question. that is, whether it is necessary to act so softly. eh, about the ukrainian armed formations or maybe

only toughness is needed to cure e ukraine now and this is the most important medicine for this regime. i'm not talking about the country. i'm talking about this regime, which has already crossed almost all the red lines, about which we have repeatedly raised the issue. therefore, here is the position, both moral and uh. here is an emotional one, but this is the position of the residents of donbass unity vladimirovich thank you so much. you are absolutely right. the enemy shows no gentleness, no pity, and showing great toughness on our part. we will not only achieve a common victory, but also accelerate the timing of its inevitable onset. once again, thank you very much denis vladimirovich from me and uh, i think that uh many of us, probably almost all of us, really respect what you do with your courage. and how do you stand in this difficult situation. thank you very much denis vladimirovich well, now we actually

turn to the main international topic of today. this is the shanghai summit, organization and cooperation, which today completed the first day in samarkand and vladimir putin had several bilateral meetings with the leaders of china iran pakistan uzbekistan kyrgyzstan and a trilateral meeting with russia china mongolia we are sitting with the chairman of the people's republic of china, a. where this meeting, vladimir putin emphasized the increase in trade between russia and china and the increase in the share of settlements in rubles and yuan in national currencies, but he also stressed the importance of the russian-chinese partnership for world politics to strengthen the multipolar world. here, listen to what on this score - vladimir putin said. the formation of a democratic

government based on an international government has recently become absolutely ugly and absolutely unacceptable. for the vast majority of states on the planet, alexander vladimirovich, you are one of the most authoritative experts in russia on china, vladimir putin, used the word tandem, characterizing russian-chinese relations in your opinion, after this summit, in general, is

this summit this meeting some kind of gun in the development of russian-chinese relations, it is probably important to emphasize that this is the second meeting in a year. and how do you expect the further development of russian- chinese relations? it will be easy for a specialist in the shanghai cooperation organization, because there are very few of them literally on the fingers of one hand , but still thank you for your trust. yes indeed this summit. or rather, as it is officially called the meeting of the council, the heads of state, as well, despite the fact that it takes place every year, and this summit is especially important. well, at least, because for the first time it is completely held in full-time format. yes, uh, the previous uh two, if they are mistaken themselves, then they took place online. well, because of the pandemic, but of course,

official performances can, of course, take place online. well, behind-the-scenes meetings or that's how the meeting hmm the leaders of russia china as they say in the margins, they cannot go through this on their own. and these are just those meetings in which is being decided. uh, one could say the fate of the world, or at least the fate of the non-western part of the world. uh, since the shanghai cooperation organization is a part of it, but the main states are not in the western part of the world. well, there’s not counting, let’s say latin america or africa, and the rest means everything, india is before china, russia yes, pakistan is strange central asia and it includes, of course, the entry of iran, which just happened, well, today rand signed a memorandum uh-huh and the meaning of which is , what he

accedes to all treaties and agreements that were previously signed by other countries. that is, this is what it is. actually. eh, joining the organization and with this joining of iran yeah , the organization becomes, of course, even more weighty, and more influential in the world, but still, russian-chinese relations, how will they develop? here is whether this summit is an important milestone, an important milestone . what is your forecast for the further development of the russian-chinese partnership, maybe more more. uh, greater coordination in the international arena of foreign political on foreign policy issues more intensity of the exercises even more, and economic cooperation. uh, russian- chinese relations are developing well and are now at their peak. development yes, we know that china, for example, is

russia's first trading partner in 2010 and trade is growing this year. it again became russia, it decreased slightly, there ahead of the pandemic is here but here, of course, there are reasons, both objective and so to speak subjectively objective reasons that we are just two large countries with a huge border of more than 4, uh million kilometers. and this is the natural state of two such friendly partners, but there are subjective reasons. this, of course, is the policy of the united states of their allies, who for some reason, for some reason i do not understand. maybe dmitry konstantinovich will explain something, for reasons i don’t understand, the great andrei’s absolutely amazing policy is being demanded simply by name. that is, for what reason? because everyone knows there is russian intervention in the united states and

probably your agents have seized control of american foreign policy and therefore are pursuing a policy that, from the american point of view , should normally be suicidal, but it is carried out, and a vessel, but you see, the us line towards china has been formed under the president of nixa. yes when uh hmm well informal relations were established, then later under karkar official relations and i think you certainly understand this better as an adviser nixon. yes, but it seems to me that the idea was to break up precisely the union of the soviet union well , the soviet union and china yes, in order to take advantage of , as it were, eh. well, this is purely a geopolitical construction, yes. use the weaker against the stronger it's clear to me to use one

against the other, even if you don't love both, but what's the point of simultaneously m-m putting pressure on both in order to bring them closer, it probably doesn't fit in my head. i think it's just that american politicians have lost some vision. strategies. it just comes from its own 7 minute interests, but we have to thank them anyway, especially the makitas and veda da because , well, we've always advocated a more honest relationship. with china in our country. they help us a lot. well, i've returned to washington and i will definitely share your gratitude. they said that moscow is very grateful for the american contribution to the rapprochement between china and russia. well, everything, how far. this rapprochement can come in. here it is on a political union, and russia's relations with china

and moscow and peking emphasizes that this relationship is of a different type and is not a military alliance, so far as russia can count on support in the current situation. china, including in the military field. right now, military maneuvers are taking place - this is a kind of help, but i ask, maybe something more far-reaching seems to you, it's real. chinese relations are called differently, there are different theories. here is the conviniance manager. yes, a marriage of convenience before the de facto union yes, because officially. well he's like the military union, let's say, is not fixed on paper, but it seems to me that a close military union between russia and china is impossible, because such an alliance, this means that if hmm, china is in conflict with some there, and neighbors or there

arise conflict with taiwan, russia should join him and support china or vice versa. i think this is hardly possible, but honest interaction, but in order to stop the threats, as it were, er, which are the west and the united states with their allies. eh, alone, that means. agree and russia china with their enemies, so they arranged yes, well, it's possible, and now i'm answering your question about what to expect. i have a feeling that in china, in principle, russia is understood and supported, but there are some concerns, because. uh, russian american cooperation, despite all the problems. it's still a huge part of world

trade. it's as important to the chinese economy as it is to the american economy, so making too sudden moves, and china wouldn't want to , would still like, uh, to have a relationship with constructive relations with the outside world continued, and he fears secondary sanctions, i understand, that's all the same, what's with yours. russia's point of view could really count in some short-to- medium term on the part of china. and you mean strategically? i mean in the current confrontation with the russian federal west, and i proceed from the fact that china's solidarity at the political level, that it is already worth a lot, that the chinese century in the security council in support of russia is also worth a lot, but now i'm talking about some more specific

things that, uh, have not yet been in and which are very feared in the united states, and some arms deliveries, some kind of circumvention of sanctions, in order to provide russia with some modern technologies. i will say because some of this is real. well, i would like you to think, well, you know, my feeling is, as i said in china, there is support for russia and this is quite pragmatic, because china does not benefit from the weakening of russia if russia and especially, god forbid from the chinese point of view. yes , somehow it will fall under the influence of the west, china will remain one on one with it, and they, as pragmatic people, believe that russia should be supported, but uh. i think it's possible here, uh like , uh, open measures. so some, well, like

measures that maybe won't come to the surface. here, i'll give you, uh, the example of north korea. yes, china and russia have joined the sanctions and china has always supplied a lot of all sorts of goods there. uh, including fuel oil, for example, different there energy carriers, yes, then it was banned, but for some reason it was still in the north korea, you know, maybe something like that will come from russia from russia, of course, i can’t give 100%, but i have such the feeling that the chinese comrades will find some way. uh, so to speak, how to always carry out your plans. i fully agree with alexander vladimirovich that it is unlikely that russia and china will formalize a military alliance in the foreseeable future and undertake obligations to enter into a war against a third sides in case one of the

partners turns out to be in the war, but another characteristic of russian- chinese relations is more than the union because the intensity of the partnership that we see between russia and china both in the military sphere and in terms of coordinating foreign policy approaches of the position in international organizations such as the un security council and the intensification of economic cooperation really exceeds the intensity of interaction that we see between the united states and their formal official military allies, moreover dmitri i think that's your joke. there is only a fraction of a joke about the fact that alexander vladimirovich and i convey the words of gratitude to the biden administration for strengthening the russian- chinese partnership. this is only part of the joke, because the united states is real. now we have found ourselves in the position in which the soviet union was in the late sixties and seventies , that is, it is leading a confrontation on two fronts ; moreover, the united states, as we see

they are trying in every possible way to win over india to their side in order to use it against china in order to break off, so to speak, to weaken russian indian relations, but nothing works on render fashion participates in the sco summit, and a week before the summits, india withdrew from the trade e, the deal from the trade component of the main project of the biden administration in the economic sphere in the so-called dota ocean region, this is the ipf, and the indo-pacific economics framework. so, there are a few baskets from the trading basket, india came out, that is, and a ip from the biden administration. uh presents as a replacement for the trans-ocean partnership that the administration once promoted. obama, that is, it is not possible to connect india yes, india remains a truly independent power, but i want to ask you a question, dmitry, and again, the prospects, in your opinion,

of american politics. well, the united states has never liked the sco, the united states, in principle, does not like organizations that they do not control, but now that both russia and china, which are declared adversaries in the sco, are coming in iran yes, uh, which is also a long-time adversary of the united states, that is, and i think that the approach will be even more negative. now, do you expect some kind of tightening of american policy, and in relation to china, in relation to russia , maybe in relation to some other countries after that yourself? well, with respect to russia, i expect. this is no secret. ah, administration. first, it promises. secondly, the administration is very much lobbied by zelensky and part of the electorate of the democratic party who support him, and a lot american voters originate from poland, ukraine, eastern europe, and in several key

states. where there will be congressional elections in november, these voters play a role, and therefore, under these conditions, it is politically beneficial to take a hard line on russia. well, or finally, now this is an attempt in congress to declare russia a sponsor of terrorism as a state sponsor of terrorism. i hope the biden administration manages to stop this, but nevertheless, in order to stop this, the administration has to speak. they are doing this kind of sanctions on their own without this declaration, as far as china is concerned. this is a somewhat more complex issue. it seems to me that now dmitry , you know, uh, is trying to wave a big club at china on the one hand, and on the other hand, show gingerbread and make it clear that if china keeps you from open, uh, support for russia and

will not ignore american sanctions, then china can also be better attitude and even some kind of indulgence, let's say for tariffs saying this e. i also think that if the united states succeeded, hopefully in washington, inflicting some kind of defeat on russia, at least one that would induce russia to take a less active position in the international arena. this is, frankly , a gift - it would not be china, because china would be next. alexander vladimirovich, probably the last question for you, and china for a very long time and stubbornly advocated the activation of the economic component of the seam and complained that the security component is actively represented in the sco, but somehow the economic one is developing poorly, component with the entry of iran opens up the possibility of expanding the north-south transport corridors in this regard. er, do you expect an

intensification of economic cooperation within the framework of the sco and, as a result, the strengthening of this organization. in general, there are three main areas in the sco: security, which is developing, in principle, well, yes, the economy is active there, well, and the third one can be, cultural and humanitarian cooperation, of which economic, frankly speaking, is the weakest and despite the fact that there was accepted for more than 20 years, many different documents, well, there are quite a few common projects and, uh, the reason here is that a mechanism for their financing has not been created. there is no sco bank or any other organization that could finance these projects, of course, the entry of iran, as well as the entry of india before that, which are extremely interested in developing cooperation. let's say that with central asia it was

possible, e, to give e an impetus, and new development of economic ties, but it seems to me that e is needed here. other countries also understand that this is important, er, and i hope that this will happen and some will be created. uh, the mechanism is cooperation within the organization. uh, i think uh situation just demands it unconditionally. i completely agree with you, but shos. the united states will strengthen in favor of this, all global trends in world politics and the us hybrid war against russia and the us confrontation against china and the us confrontation against iran, and at the same time strengthening the multipolarity of the modern world. he speaks in favor of the fact that this organization will also be strengthened dmitry alexander vladimirovich many thanks for the interesting conversation, and in a few moments

the big game will return and we will continue the conversation with the experts. you need to infiltrate his environment, while you get into the office of a woman classified as secret. to the mercy of fate, you will not force me

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and after the results of the sco itself with experts from mgimo as well. a. well, it is obvious that the united states has always had a very negative attitude towards the shanghai cooperation organization, and now there will be more worse, and the united states has already denounced the decision to meet with vladimir putin forgot all day long to ask the opinion of the white house on how to interact with russia but the white house said that now is not the time for china to interact with russia as if nothing was happening and and in the united states they also say that now, since zemfin met with putin during russia's special operation in ukraine , china cannot be considered neutral at all in relation to this conflict. well, i propose discuss the likely directions of american policy, and in the next follow-up. direction yes, this is already the exhaustion of us policy towards

china, and the role of the spoiler that the united states is playing and apparently will continue to play even more actively in central asia and the tightening of the hybrid war against russia in my opinion. this is a probable, and a model of the probable direction of american behavior after the sco itself and the first manifestations. we see already now, and not further than yesterday, the committee on foreign affairs of the senate the united states has approved a bill called the taiwan policy, and this draft involves the following, firstly, the allocation of military assistance to taiwan for 4.5 billion dollars, fundamentally contradicts the policy of one china, and thirdly, it gives the president of the united states the right to impose sanctions. and so on against representatives of the chinese people's

republics that threaten the independence of taiwan the second violation of the principle of one china well, as a cherry on the cake, i have never seen this in the history of the foreign policy of the united states, assigning taiwan the status of the main ally of the united states is not necessary. now, i can't remember that the united states was assigned the status of a major ally in nato to a region of another state. so, yes, this is the senate's point of view, but when the representatives of the white house, karin genre was asked about what she thinks, therefore on the occasion, she in no way condemned this initiative and, on the contrary, said that the united states would continue to provide taipei with effective diplomatic economic and military assistance. the united states still wants to achieve such provocations. i think this is just going to a new level. uh, these provocations and should we expect a war in the taiwan gulf

. the united states is trying to keep the foreign policy initiative not only in the european direction, where they use allied resources to bolster their own faltering economy and silence any voices that might be critical of the americans' transatlantic east asian consensus. in my opinion it is incorrect. consider china's cautious steps conciliatory in many ways and read them as a signal of weakness the americans are trying to create in the region. a clear two-color structure in which there are friends and foes it is important for them to strengthen solidarity among the allies korea japan to alienate neutral countries from china, to make

any foreign policy initiatives of china more and more difficult, to provoke china into any drastic steps. and then i sprinkle ashes on my head and says, well, how could no one want it, and suddenly china starts for no reason at all. it means to make some foreign policy actions that we cannot accept and the whole free world and so on this song. we know well. this is an absolutely provocative line that intends to unbalance the chinese leadership is absolutely destructive and probably one of the most threatening to peace and stability in the 21st century, it is difficult to remember an episode in world history when a power was so deliberately and, in general, frankly. the influence of which the system is decreasing would provoke the rising power to take active steps. well, this is really a

classic of the theory of international relations, but i agree that the intensity that is happening now is really unprecedented, you can interpret the purity of these american impulses, as a sense of slipping time, what if time is indeed a resource that is waning from the united states, then china needs to be provoked by slicing, as early as possible, as soon as possible, until completed, the third fourth fifth sixth, the aircraft carrier around it is an aircraft carrier strike group. so far, the chinese missile program has not yet reached the hypersonic level. while the warning system for a missile attack, which russia is helping china to create on its territory, is not yet working full-scale and a system of trilateral nuclear deterrence is not being created there, and american military experts themselves in public reports a few years ago marked a logical period around when china would be ready to challenge the united states and uh, they realize that china is like dough

that you come out of the pot, it will inevitably rise in power . this is a completely natural process. here he cannot be stopped by anyone. e, means due to the general e significance of such a gravitational influence. china and the task of american policy is to provoke china as early as possible into careless steps in order to antagonize all of all countries neighbors, well, a very important part of the sco space, uh, is central asia and the united states, and before leaving afghanistan, especially after leaving afghanistan, they play the role of a spoiler there, it seems to me, but now there are prerequisites for the fact that they will try to activate this role not further than yesterday, the junior deputy secretary of state for south and central asian affairs and the structure of the state department, by the way, the center. asia is assigned to india, pakistan to south asia and central asia and not to the post-soviet space, also a clear one

a relapse of the old american policy, when they stimulated through afghanistan interacting with central asia south asia, so donaldl 's name is this a junior. uh, deputy secretary. he stated that the united states is actively involved in discussing the possibilities of transporting kazakh oil bypassing russia through the caspian sea, and that when next week secretary of state anthony blinkin holds a 5 + 1 meeting within the framework of the un general assembly, that is, the united states plus the countries of central asia here for me it donald. lou, strangely with central asia, will declare a commitment to maintaining even closer relations with the united states, but angeli kaur, the official representative of the usa international development agency, went even further, who formulated the goal of american policy in the region as follows. listen washington is currently taking action to