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sleep lovers do not cause addictions. magnet cosmetic care means love a remedy for you utensils energy 999 magnitka son what do you need? good night, dear viewers of channel one , today we have a literary podcast. let them not speak, let them read. i dmitry bakov invite you to speculate about literature and try to understand how to read with pleasure and understand how fashionably cool it is beautiful, usually ordinary. and in a word, without reading, we are nowhere and i am sure that

my today's interlocutor also thinks. this is my wonderful friend, and the prose writer is vladislav atroshenko. we will talking about your book, of course, uh, but uh, before we get to the book. as a matter of fact, i will immediately demonstrate it so that there is some intrigue in the book called the outskirts of babylon and babylon you are the whole earth. yes, all together, where languages ​​were mixed after unsuccessful attempts to build a tower and much much more, but what i wanted to ask, and maybe a little provocative. so i heard that you are called new. sasha sokolov yes, more than once, i ’ve heard this, i’m not sure, i don’t know how you yourself will relate to this, but it’s absolutely certain that you unlike the lion's share of modern writers. uh, write, small things, but rather stories, essays, story cycles, whether it's true

or not. here. e, dmitri you just one word just flashed uh, this cycles for me. uh, in general, uh, everything that i write, by itself , lines up in cycles, and even, uh, the cycle itself, which gave its name to this general babylonian conspiracy about languages ​​that arose after the destruction of the tower of babel. he emerged. uh, by chance, uh, i have one such fashionable glossy magazine. eh, unknown. why did he ask you to write a 72-word story? i asked why it came in. well, i say, what is this format? well, yes, but he says, yes, he just says from the bulldozer, this bulldozer has 72 words. at first i wanted to get rid of it, but then, uh, i thought, such interesting chess, let's do this problem. here to take such to write. i wrote this story, and then, uh, i felt sorry for giving away the magazine, because i started thinking up the next next one .

uh, admiring tricks has passed, and now we need big stories, these are 700 pages of a regular one, but you don’t have such stories in such stories. and probably won't. it's probably not organic. still. yes, probably, yes, every writer has it, as it were, well, that is, of any size. yes there is a nature of his uh, empires of nature. that's where the talent is. i like to write things. uh, these are completed ones that can be completed quickly, that is, here is a short story and sides, e , bunin wrote super short stories for him only one is a romance last tale of his last years of life. it's generally a few lines to tell the puppy. he also has great things, but still the main thing is averchenko's story, drag it. well, you know what's going on? here you are when you write small things. even those stories that are included here and there are five stories and

, well, when they were published in italy, they took these five stories of the cycle, like novel a do i think correctly that here, uh, some certain side of the writer's nature realized yourself, because hmm on malaya distance, there is no complete alienation of the novel. here is a writer that a novel can be written for 10 years, yes, or two years or five years, and uh , as a matter of fact, both in terms of temperament and other, uh, criteria, the author, as it were, does not belong at all. here you are in every line in every church, yes, despite the fact that this is prose here, it’s just otroshenko, just from every paragraph i see your beautiful portrait. well, it really is. hey, that's a very good comparison. i liked exactly uh, long distance running. yes, there is a sprint sprint distance. eh, it requires such a direct return. here's to the last. yes, it will lay out straight, and then fall. here,

it's clear. and actually, i love writing so much. here is every thing some grain of truth. yes it is indeed. eh, i think that this may be the southern russian temperament, let's talk about this, too, about southern russia, for me, for me, this is, uh, this is such a property. i want to see, uh, completed things and, uh, give it my all just to the end in every line, i think of myself as a writer's work. yes as modified state. not consciousness, yes, how wonderful, but it is dangerous to be in altered states for a long time. yes, therefore, therefore, i understand, so when i enter there i will write these short things. and if i told me we didn't often say that, here is my uh, late friend, my close friend was oleg pavlov with me. uh, my wonderful doctor, of course, he told me. listen says, here you turn around. this one in roman, this one, this is some kind of novel,

that is, each one of this each of this little thing we unfold roman, uh, i told him oleg i went. yes, and we will go crazy, because, well, this is how his attitude is the nature of talent, i remember that one of the poems of the white, ahat akhmadulina ends quite so big. so and i have a poem written, it just happened. yes, that is, it is not something that draws strength and forces you to alienate yourself from yourself and in general somehow. too fixes the altered consciousness. yes, yes, because, uh , in general, i think that in general , writing is such a controlled madness controlled, because yes, because you must pass between this force and the charybdis. yes, that is, to return, that is, there is no thump there, yes, but still, well, someone someone has the ability to control this madness, for example, throughout

a long novel. i'm afraid to give myself a lesson. yes and now, as if every day, three pages, of course. yes, i'm just afraid to fall into these states, because they really are. well , they are painful and you drop out at all when you write, you drop out of family life. i used to have such a case when he i had my dog, my favorite is such a wild doberman. i went to the store with her. uh, tied her up, they wouldn't let the store in there. and at this moment. here, uh, i realized how i need to build a story there, i ran. and i repent of this one here, yes, i just left my animal friend tied, that uh, then it means that i sat down to describe the work and suddenly at some point she tumbles through the door. that's so dirty paws. she pulled out. she somehow wriggled out of her collar and ran and then i repented there, cried and asked for his forgiveness gentlemen, because, uh, because you, when you are in this altered state

of consciousness while working, yes, the writer's metaphor of dogs just shocked me, really. eh, really. it really is, well, wonderful. now. please tell us how it happened that the books that came out. uh, first in other countries it comes out in russian. usually this doesn't happen. yes, modern ivanov sergeevich turgenev, we know that at first people do not write books, or somehow it is customary to say, then someone is either agent or ivan sergeevich turgenev says that this should be translated. here it is necessary to bring me or dostoevsky or goncharov and how did it happen so what is it? for the first time they are published in russian in such a line-up. yes , and which readers already know. tell me yourself. well, uh, yes, that's what is in this book now known to italian and french readers and i must say u it really is. here, er, as a writer has e nu, as it were, the nature of his writing. yes, that's what we are talking about, yes, organics, there are some other recurring notes in fate, which

here are invariably repeated, because when the first time it happened. i thought it was a miracle, and it was like suddenly a bell rings. so in the middle. well, it's very well described here. dasha readers understand that this is all? well, he is from the book yes, and such and such some. uh, a completely otherworldly voice with such an accent, he says, you can say that he is here, he is such a meowing accent a little bit. i say, yes, it's me , uh, uh, here. you probably thought what accounts you have on the card now reset them, that it was me. i had, to be honest, means the first thought was that one of my friends was playing a trick on me. i say, that's because such things happen, you call, says, well, there now i am a rich german publisher wanting to publish your book to pay a large fee, says, and also such a meowing voice calls me and says that uh and when i hear the name of the publishing house volunteer , rome i understand that this is something, yes, this is no accident. this is, of course,

a gamble. but then it turned out that the very famous such verbose italian mario karamiki also called me. here is the woland publishing house - this is the publishing house daniil desheura is such a professor of rimsky yes , very famous, very famous, she is a big bulgakov, therefore she means her publishing house, which has been her for many years. yes, she uh, called the name of the special name of bulgakov's character waves, and uh, but this meowing accent, as i later. but this is with the native romans. there is such a thing. yes, they say so with a little smirking, and it really turned out that, uh, after reading my things published in magazines. uh, the publisher sent, so, uh, their agent translator mario karameti, who i looked at some other things of mine there, and they themselves offered me a book. and at that time i had these things

published. you're just there in different magazines. yes, it seems to me that the spirit of the hoax has not completely disappeared, yes, because in this book there are a lot of situations when it is not clear whether the reality is in front of you or the hoax. i remember such a story before perestroika, when one is now deceased. ah, great poet. uh, i played everyone, and he began to call a poet and introduce himself as some kind of again, i will not name any countries to foreign critics, who leave for their hometown. and it is necessary to carry again i will not name anyone under. we will translate half a sheet of poems , it cost a lot, and this innocent person sees that some people come to him and bring some half-sheet selections. e picks. in the end, it all worked out. it's translated. uh, i mean, it seems to me that this is a hoax. exactly this. the main thing is that it could be gogolevskaya. i don't know , eh. well, and that here and the very name of the outskirts

of babylon is, well, a metaphor. clearly sends to the beginning of the book, and here we are talking about languages. to our readers. i'm telling you, this is not news, of course, but i was just fascinated here we are talking about those languages ​​that were, uh, mixed mixes destroyed. yes, exactly the opposite, which appeared instead of the common language of adam, in which everyone spoke , everyone spoke, understood and erected this tower man. eh, with his pride he lifted it above the lord and so the lord mixed the languages ​​​​and languages ​​\u200b\u200bappeared. here is the first cycle. here it consists of e. hmm different languages ​​the language of the yon people the language of the zibur people the language of the yagurund people. well, finally, i've got it. here is such a page. i even now sit more comfortably. i will try to pronounce it, but it is unlikely that i will succeed in the language of the nomadic people from above buyu budovik. how are you doing? quickly you will sign the sign. so you understand what

vladislavshenko can do. what is the metaphor here? do these languages ​​exist or not? either there is almost or there is a little bit of a real basis or just pure fantasy, well, on the one hand, this is really a fantasy, and on the other hand, this is what i was going to, frankly, since uh, this is very, very early childhood. you know, when here is a child at some age of four or five, when he still speaks badly, so to speak in his native language, but at the same time he begins. eh, gibbering something in some fantasize, as if saying something in some languages. i have the same thing now, my little daughter. sometimes she just sits and draws and scribbles in some kind of incomprehensible language, and on the one hand, this is such a childhood recollection. on the other hand, of course, language is a writing tool and reflection on this tool. she happens all the time and in general you think about this violin, on which you play on this

instrument. and how he arranges, what he builds, in order to die at the moment of pronouncing the usual language, yes, communicative. i say to you, for example, give me a book, you give me a book, this phrase is dead. but that in my name to you she will die, like a sad sound, this phrase has frozen for centuries. yes, that is , something exactly the opposite happens with artistic language loves to build, that's me. eh, here. this is his essence to think, build and love, and when the language becomes e even stronger than the native speakers uh-huh but the brodskys say the same thing that the language says to me. yes , something like this, that language is smarter than me, language, in general, the most mysterious thing that exists, yes, the most mysterious thing is that i am more material things. i’ll say more than that, if if indeed, er , the gifted ones are right, and how would a person come from a monkey, well, what i’m not sure about,

well then, the act of creation was that here the lord simply endowed some monkey-like creatures with a tongue. and then, in fact, man arose. here but this is the gift of naming adam the secret. i miraculously opened it. says tarkovsky adam uh, first uh, name things. yes, yes, i have such a game with students, when we talk about e-futurists there about the zaum at the baker, we say, then i say, let 's imagine that we are with you. well, vladislav, for example, here we are together, there is no one else. we say hmm well mining hmm table table table, well agreed yes, it's a chair. here that's why he writes like that, of course, of course, this is a cycle on the one hand about this. eh, that 's about it, but the acquisition of substances on the other hand. i wanted to depict all possible languages ​​in the most unthinkable and there it starts with a language that has only five words. another giraffe, drum, eternal barbed, this

folk. he combines it in such a way that he has everything, that is, the lord endowed them here. a language in which there are five words, but they created an epic there, and there are all sorts of songs and poems , even a philosophical treatise such a giraffe is a barbed eternity. i'm not laughing for the first time because i really love this book, and a different language. uh, the next one there, uh, means, uh , in which uh 800 million words were the same it was real, by the way, i read somewhere in the bible encyclopedias that the tower of babel had 800 million bricks. here is another number of bricks, the lord means there, other people put on such a language, which has 800 million words, and in this sense, e does not matter 800 million words in the language yes or five words. uh, language is such a powerful entity that it generates meaning no matter what it contributes. and the height of the nation. yes? this is interesting. do you

know robert's story went to the ceiling and did not come across a little in the russian translation. no, it's about the same thing. you know, there was an american science fiction writer robert shapley's classic, absolutely yours , it was about a language that changes not over millennia, but over several days, that is, first , our viewers forgive me for the term. first it is nagglutinative, then it is inflective, first it has six cases, then three cases. i mean, first you start playing football, for example, yes, and in the middle of the half it turns out that you can play with your hands, but at the end of the half. do you know that the goal is not to score , but to run away from the given stadium? this is such lightness, so i'll ask the next question about suffering is sadness, in general, there is in your books. well, uh, what kind of russian writer is here without suffering and sadness, well, everything is so subtle, why do i say that parallels come to mind, and with sasha sokolov the line between word and

reality between this subject is so thin, as it is indicated that sorrow in general no be and can't or still. maybe it's all so fun, and it's so nice to be modest. here. uh. as a matter of fact, uh, this angel of death is an angel, israel, he is hidden, there inside and, uh, in reality. eh, you see, this is my deep conviction that for the angel of death there is nothing worse than seeing a person laughing, because in principle, we should be afraid of this. yes, he must wait for you to beware, please, of the angel of death. we must constantly e be here in a state of snake. because what awaits us yes and here is a laughing man - this is opposition. e. as a matter of fact, this fear of death and, uh, i think that he is not such a mocker. he doesn't laugh. here, yes,

ridicule. this is exactly the laughter that a person inspires and exalts, and under this, all the same, under this thin ice. there, anyway , this abyss is a very christian thing, the joy of the spirit. yes, and despondency is a mortal sin. yes , you just have to think about what? we will surely grow old and die. why stop living? no need to live with this internal tragedy, but vladislav otroshenko succeeds in everything in prose melt it down somehow. i am monitoring pilot leonid yakubovich piloting pilot sergei burunov under the curtain details, for sure, of course, with the engine turned off, how nice it was. you could say it's with the eyes. uh, there's no other way to call it with a cat's stream, but it felt like time had stopped. yes, and that's just the way you're properly shown to know. i once experienced. it's a strange feeling, after weighing more than an hour i had a terrible swing in place. yes, and in two planes, here it is absolutely

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when the plane of them and you to the ends of the world. i want to go home christopher columbus of the 21st century, the stranger turned to the shaman, brought the evil eye to the village. listen to the situation. we're all in the ass vacation at africa premiere's friday at first i don't want to be eaten, someone has nothing to eat. here is the next cycle, short my favorite is the figure of the don well , it's time to say, what is it from the lower don vladislav otroshenko, he said to a family that has no translations. yes and here, for example, the story of the conductor of the river from the beginning i can say the words, how to pronounce them incorrectly. you correct me near eric, ivan zakharovich is standing on the kurgan. sabun. never leaves the kurgan. many have short arms with long

arms. he reaches the ground. he leans on her with his fists, he looks only up and straight. a sharp hump on his chest cannot look down to the side, preventing him from moving his head, if some driver does not put a coin in his hand, he drives along a narrow asphalt road past kurgan towards the don ferry crossing, then the sabun loudly, howls him well on both banks rivers, so this is the wind, or something, yes, it turns out what kind of creature is this? uh conductor controller, what kind of sabun? e on the don leads the crossing here and there, by the way. uh, you know how it happened that all these figures of don, on the one hand, look absolutely mythological so phantasmal. but at the same time , uh, uh, like everything that we write, that's all. eh, everything has some kind of real basis, which can be in childhood in dreams, anywhere. that is, that just like that. it doesn’t

come. nothing, yes. so these figures are very scary. including especially this sabun, where this one was born from, when i was little, well, my parents gave birth to me very early. they were young. eh, there my mother was 18 years old, my father was 20. so, uh, respectively, it means that when i grew up a little they threw me off, that means grandparents grandfather and grandparents were also young. they've been there for 40 years. yes, i had nowhere to go and my grandfather. he was a shipping agent. there he was engaged in obtaining , in some places, all sorts of spare parts for some large motor depot, and we drove around the lower house in a car with him. he just took me instead of leaving me somewhere to go , i went with him. and so, when you go home from novocherkassk, there is such a village of bessergy, no, going down all together, and there is this heretic. uh, cormorants is a genuine place. this is an authentic place. uh, there, in general, don’t torment such a sabon figure. here and there stood a very strange grandfather who , uh, put a makeshift barrier. hung

myself found the conductor's bag. really was collecting further. and who is it? why did he collect the letter, exactly 50 kopecks were needed. to give in full, and if they didn’t give him money , they somehow broke it, a barrier, he just cursed there, he poured some, and these figures are in fact. i have had. these are some of the semi-real, semi-fantastic cavities. there is a key to everything , either reality or fantasy. this is vladislav otroshenko. right now, as usual, in the middle of our conversation, we insert a rubric. this is a book that at one time everyone was very eager to get, as they said then , this is a book from the poet's library series and knowledgeable people will understand that this is the first series of the poet's library, because there is such a corrugated spine with protruding letters. this is stepan petrovich shevelev, but the face. uh, very

famous. very controversial figure - this is a moscow professor, this is a slavophile. this is the publisher's closest comrade mikhail petrovich weather but absolutely not all. eh, they understood and understand that this is a very great russian poet. so strange, it happens in life. uh, poetic reputations are sometimes built by the forces of chance. to me, they say the guns are not tyutchev, but still , very many people perceive it. and shevyreva, as for this eighth row, he is the eighth, this is a wonderful russian poet. in recent years, they began to publish it, but remained to collect it. lady nu and thanks to this, this book has become more accessible. it's not that expensive, but it's not about its cost. the point is that my beloved thought that books speak to us with presence itself. i literally read a couple of lines, when nature is silent and your noisy

language is dozing, then in my soul i hear freedom. in it, the invocative click is more alive, the heart, pleasure and thought. sublimely bright, as if into the world of the transfiguration of the soul from the body, she was embraced by calm delight and free songs flow more lively like a river of sonorous harmonious holy silence of nights. when you throw off the dark veil of the virgin shadow and the living word thunders and the day lights up bright, then worries bother and drive the work of the soul peace and songs. my heart is silent when i hear your tyutchev voice, the idea of ​​​​the day with its noise disperses the metaphysics of the soul, my god, as it is amazingly said by stepan petrovich shevyryov during the life of pushkin, with whom he was in correspondence sometimes in conflicts. well,

let's go back to the present day and talk about one more side of your work. and you are a person who is fond of and, uh, striving to get to the bottom of the truth. yes, i'm not saying that you are a detective or an investigator, but the plot for which you come on - it's just, well, the canonical touchstone for everyone who thinks of russian literature, well, there are such enchanted plots of secret pushkin's diaries that are a couple, literature and nonsense and hoax, but there is a crime that was attributed to a huge russian drama. alexander vasilyevich sukhovo-kobylin, and now this book will be published soon, and now you take this investigation into account. how did it all work out? and what did alexander vasilyevich manage to find out there , an auditory dog, not only a playwright, but also philosopher, the creator of such a hegelian system

of philosophy in the russian way. yes, that's what attracted you. there was a murder here. uh, the murder was uh, totally brutal. remind us of this, or forget everything , a demal, a french magistrate, with whom sukhovo was a young, brilliant person, rich, in general, as an oligarch would say now, because he has 10,000 peasant souls there. eh, the families are very famously rich - these are the descendants of the boyar. andrew mares. there, the times of ivan kalita, that is, it is such a boyar family, mighty like that. and now he is a young man who graduated from the university and is going for an excellent trip to paris to get acquainted with louise, simon demonche, after a while there she comes to him in moscow, uh, they live. well, he could not marry her, because the greek emperor. well, she's a french woman. here but they have been in love for 8 years, they live and, uh , after 8 years, when he has a new

love story with a well-known very grand dame such a naryshkin born to noring. yes , she was, and a socialite. that's suddenly, when she is in her third month of pregnancy - this is a socialite, naryshkina , here is louise simon demonsh, well, she is found brutally, killed on a khabib field, and all her rings are diamonds. nobody took anything. robbery is excluded rape too, excepting more medical investigations that the police did there, uh , and uh, they find blood in his outbuilding, probably, there was no not this book was not, nothing would have been. there would be at that time. medicine, uh, science could determine whose is it blood? yes, it's so simple. yes, a human is what time it belongs to, but then when the zakrevsk governor-general of moscow sent these cut out boards with this blood, the plasters were sent forever gone. that is, we are in front of a mystery that cannot be literally told, it cannot be unraveled. yes, the case remained a murder

unsolved, uh, 7 years of investigation and me, of course, in this i understand the punishment. well, in some yes krichinsky was in prison, but it was in prison that many of his sunday gates. he sat there writing in state-owned places paper. it means that he wrote this wedding with official ink, screaming, like, which is now being launched, that this did not happen and a person of this kind of tribe. uh, suffered uh, very much. and on the one hand, there is beauty in this story. he barin she is such a rootless international foreigner. here is this secular killer. the illegitimate child is, i even think, that this is poor lisa turned face. in a sense, this is herself. life wrote. this novel. every time poor liza only poor liza rushed to the pond of the simonov monastery and called sea ​​prices. there's a horrific violent murder here. and e. me, of course, uh in this story why she does not give me until they i have been for many years. this is what i am doing, which

, of course, does not give me peace of mind in this story, the simple and tragic pushkin question. compatibility of genius and villainy. this is the pushkin question. uh, which uh, in general, uh, has been haunting our history since pushkin, and according to this fairy tale, the senseless crowd was not the murderer of the creator of the vatican. this is the last line a little bit. i gave and here is mozart salie. yes, this is it, this is the most burning thing for me, because whether alexander vasilyevich killed him or not, that is decided. you see, this is a question. this is more than the fate of one person. this is the destiny of the nation. this is fate, the world in general - this is the fate of good, and evil - it's in this fate in this fate that all this came together, and therefore i, uh, want to understand this, and i tried to understand this in this book. i brought everything there. eh, all possible options. uh, how about resolving

this case, and uh, after all, what were you investigating? you seem to contradict yourself. yes, i'm asking you provocatively. eh, on the one hand. you say that the main problem is not in faces. yes, as porfiry petrovich said to raskolnikov. yes, the main thing is the compatibility of good and evil, and this new time is the hero of nikolai karamzin's story. poor liza does not just leave the rich poor there, then the pond rushes. this is also not very good, but still they don’t have such a shade of horror and violence, after all, what was the main thing for the investigators to try to penetrate the personality. alexandra vasilyevich after all, this is also it was yes, yes, and to understand, he considers himself innocent, he justifies himself creativity is a semilogy now, unfortunately, yes or fortunately, maybe yes, because this riddle was given to us by history itself to understand, it is possible only through his personality killed or not killed, because the materials of the case turned out to be