good day, dear viewers. i'm dmitry bak, as always, i invite you to the next edition of the literary podcast. it's called let them not speak. let them read and we turn this slogan literally. to all our wonderful viewers. they can read e-books and listen to audio books, they can read papyrus parchments

, they can watch theatrical performances. we hope you enjoy reading. today we are talking with the director, artistic director of the theater, practice with the head of the fourth acting course of the school of the moscow art theater studio marina stanislavnye brusnikina. i greet you marina stanislavovna hello i am very glad that you are with us today. well, uh, according to the tradition that we have developed, we will start from the past. we are at the beginning of the conversation. well, there is such an anthropological fragment , and it will be a conversation about marina stanislavovna brusnikina about how you came to the profession, how it all happened, especially since, uh, it may be appropriate to compare the education that you once received and, uh, then how do young people study now? actors, maybe there is some difference, maybe, uh, everything is the same, how it all happened and how it all happens. now i graduated from the school of the moscow art theater studio and

the head of the course a very long time ago. we had oleg nikolaevich efremov, and even then he was always so focused on modern literature on what was happening outside the window, we were brought up. so the theater cannot but respond to modernity to modernity. and what you need to hear, see , know, and this, apparently, is efremov’s inoculation to be interested in modern dramaturgy, namely in modern literature, therefore, how to say that something has changed a lot in teaching there, when we were taught and how we work now. i, i can't. that is, specifically, in each workshop . it happens in different ways, but here is my personal, our personal upbringing, it was like that. why not take anything for granted, but not agree with anything, not to look for idols for yourself , to try to change all the time all the time, but to search for what is happening today. well, i would like to clarify, of course, this slogan is not to accept anything. on faith does not mean that what is not accepted, probably not true. well, i, for one, ask

students in the same studio school. pushkin is a genius. why am i asking? it is very difficult for me to answer this, you immediately remember brodsky , who believed that pushkin was not a poet at all. and it's not a rhyme. yes, yes, you understand, yes, and then you are, as it were, between these different opinions. you are already, as it were, developing your own and making sure that pushkin is a genius at a time when you are able to make sure of this just for you. he's a genius just for this occasion, for how you read him in this i mean, of course, of course. genius yes, but you can't take it on faith, otherwise it will be. here is such a two-hundred-year-old tradition in the theater, but sometimes there is a two-hundred-year tradition in the theater. well, it's risky. here, if we started talking about the school, then this is a very interesting topic in general, traditions and the school, but because, of course, the school is something that exists on the foundation of selected knowledge. and of course, a school in non-tradition outside of accumulated experience

is generally impossible, but it is impossible to live only by this, because it is so everyone understands any tradition in its own way. yes, and he interprets it in his own way. and hmm, it is so necessary to go to the base on this one, being to continue to see , hear and understand and move somewhere, because you can of course mothball such an underwater kingdom. here he is so well calm. here's what's happening on the surface. everything else is already there. and you lived well in this underwater kingdom, that it’s a classic, that everything is fine, that everything stands still. our analyze the classics seriously, you understand that rather than changing is not a problem, no topics, no people, and that if it weren’t distracted in us now, we wouldn’t be reading it, and it would be a long time ago to go all together with pushkin, books have gone somewhere far, far away from us is a very important idea that not only listen to modern texts. this is number one. i completely agree with you here, but the old texts

, the classical texts, are also changing, of course, they are read in an absolutely new way for us. uh, we sound us in our experience in our space. it's wonderful that it's out of the theater in the minds of the audience. yes, yes, yes, of course, literature, tell me, is there an example hmm like this opinion that the school? after all, it lives no longer than one or two generations, after all , e nu is built around e not only tradition, but also a master or a master plus a follower. is it possible to talk about a two hundred year school or a hundred year school oleg nikolaevich efremov , of course, a man who has passed away, but this school lives unconditionally. we can say, again, they are exactly like this, because this experience that has been accumulated accumulates in layers, and it does not go anywhere. yes, and it is only important that it

accumulates, it seems to me very important still understand that school is not never happens. there is one person there. yes , for example, yes to any school, but i will speak on the example of our era of the school of the moscow art theater studio there are four courses. they are completely different courses. these are absolutely different workshops , these are absolutely different people coexisting in understanding. yes, on vkontakte in dialogue with each other. that is, our disputes in the pulpits. well, you know, you are present. yes, of course, yes. and of course, each workshop is headed by a personality, yes, with its own idea theater is a constant clash. and it's always a dialogue. just like life itself. yes, and here one opinion does not win, right? well, as sometimes there is time for yes, suddenly something takes over, something leaves, then it changes. well, it's like a living life, there are many talented people, many opinions, and it is in this interchange that some kind of living and interesting birth takes place. that is, even in the same institution. studio - this institute has four workshops.

i think they can be called this workshop, which is headed by igor yakovlevich voltovitsky and sergei ivanovich zemtsov uh, they have two masters with these guys u now. hey, they're freshmen. these are, uh, students, uh, led by evgenia aleksandrovich pisarev, these are , uh, students in the workshop of viktor anatolyevich ryzhakov, and finally, brusnikin's workshop. so it is still called, and uh, of course, uh, the memory of dmitry vladimirovich brusnikin is still breathing here. o. e in my wonderful friend. hmm, and earlier still kozyr . of course, yes, this is andreevich myagkov efremov . this is the line of our teachers. all this continues now. yes, we continue. this is the graduation course, what you put on, what is being done is a lot of diploma of an educator, we have nine diploma performances and some are very interesting. i remember some, but it's better, of course, to eat at the same time. ah,

the classical repertoire. there is the same goncharov right? yes. e, tell well, is it really. well, we started to work, in general. that's what concerns the work with myths. and with such mythological literature, this is now a very interesting direction. yes, right now , in our time, you know some kind of understanding never like that. eh, never, never between people, when this problem is global, connected in general with space with space from well, with the epic in general, now it starts to sound somehow very powerful again for young guys. yes, what they see there. uh, the content of some kind of eternal, yes, yes, the changes that are now so rapidly us, but on the other hand. that's exactly what understanding is. we need a new time. eh, it gives a lot of strength to understand that everything is not accidental. yes, everything is included in the conditions of the game in this life of ours human, right? cataclysms are such

collisions with a term of fate with space. well, these are the turning points. suddenly this literature somehow very powerful comes to the forefront and so the iliad we began to work with very interesting writers by this method. this is specifically our wonderful teachers. the well-known artist alexei rozin and a wonderful teacher, sergei shchedrin is a director and teacher, and all of these are also our students. here they are, ilya barabanov, they suffered for a long time, which means with the students, when well, it's clear, yes, yes, some of this is told so creatively that it becomes interesting, it becomes like a kind of theatrical pre-performance. i remember how we dismantled with e students that the first famous line of the iliad, there is no e o anger goddess, not anger o goddess. it was a whole argument, but when they didn’t understand that there was no anger about the goddess, it would have been inflamed by the son. and there

the goddess of wrath, blazing achilles and peleus' son. we are not naedita, according to the hilaus liad, there is little that i remember from ancient greek, which once taught, but this is the first line. i have forever a rare person. you remember two lines in greek. well, how do omega prefer? yes? yes, no, well, in the old days they taught ancient greek latin at the philological faculties. there is not much left for me, but i can make out the epigraphs, but this is not about that, but about how it is combined with ivan goncharov and completely modern things. well, yes, it was a principled position. yes , absolutely in different directions to go to her at the same time, their guys have the same wonderful educator, a modern proc. just the professions of the past and the professions of the future are very much already work and, at the same time, goncharov is a classic. because there are certain individualities on the course that i wanted to reveal precisely in this material. we have a wonderful guy who is right here oblomov so it was important. you take into account something, yes, and

such things, yes, so that some kind of implementation of them. now we have a wonderful performance. come e days of our lives or not. andreeva left. yes hmm disciple of the mighty. m-m arseniy meshcheryakov is a young director. i came by myself gathered the guys all in it together wanted to do it. i'm just so proud proud, because the amazing work there is also absolutely wonderful, guys. all look to our viewers. suddenly, who does not know what verbatim means literally literally. well, yes, this is the technique that turns the performance into ordinary speech, ordinary scenes from life , usually what has already been or may be, yes, i understand correctly. well, in this case, when collecting is the lack of literary material. how so? yes, this is going to live testimonies. well, for some the topic given there. there, in this case , they talked, and with people of departed professions, there are telephone prompters. well, what kind of people who are professions that are practically or gone, they are gone, and talked to people who are trying to understand.

these analyzes are what’s next, curious, do you remember, uh, that arseniy of tarkovsky, my beloved, there is a poem about it now i will try to remember my golden hammer i threw ariadne’s thread to watch the dying of crafts is like burying yourself, and in the end there, uh, wonderful the stanza that written in the sixties, when there is no artificial intelligence yet and already an electronic lyra from her programmers, secretly composes cantemir verses in order to end with her own verse. so you are, and when there in this performance there were already taxes of people who talk about the professions of the future. i'm sitting, i don't understand a word they don't say anything. yes, yes, yes, different vocabulary. this is a different language, everything is changing so quickly and moving away from tactile memory. and hmm this is a performance of the ultrasound of moscow, they provided us with a large number of b items and these

objects, when these objects were placed on the tables, you don’t even understand why this who is what it is? because you no longer know why a programmer works for this program, and half of humanity in developed countries . yes, programmers are working to unembodie the action. yes, to make it all happen. by some code, i was quite recently an amateur photographer at the prishvin and prishvili exhibition, explaining how a two-spiral photographic tank differs from a spiral one and showed tactilely a single-spiral one. this is how it loads. i have there is a memory. i could do it from two helical. so that's what's gone and this performance is certainly a wonderful work that catches the zeitgeist. e, one of the characteristics of which is the loss of tactile memory of the onset of completely new meanings of the times, but it turns out and it is important to hear it, it is important to understand, it is important to display it, it is important to work. this information

is very important. well, maybe there is a difference, here in such an important issue as employment, without revealing the secret of subtlety. i'm not talking to him about this now, but uh textbook disputes of the repertory theater about its decline in its longevity. so, was it 20 30 40 years ago, is it difficult or easy? it was built, about the same number was on the course, it was always difficult. always difficult. and when we were graduating it was difficult , they took very little to the theater. yes, young people and periodically there are periods when it is almost impossible, because no one needs theater , then some moments arise. suddenly the bright ones are amazing, when suddenly the theater needs young artists and it’s not clear somehow this is so this is a young thing. yes, it's very young. yes, we hope yes, all the time that there are still some opportunities, there are opportunities to get settled and work, and here is a very good distribution, well, thank god we really wish that

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influenza viruses and other acute respiratory viral infections so i remind you that in broadcast a literary podcast? let them not speak, let them read and i am dmitry bug. and now, according to our tradition, we are engaged in, uh, three things, either we read a poem, or a quote from the classics, or. i'm just showing some old book, but today we are compatible with the second and third. well, first of all, this is, of course, an old book. this is my favorite volume of afanasy afanasyevich fet, to be more precise. this is a duplex. they are just intertwined together. this is one thousand nine hundred, the twelfth year. we can see from the bookmarks that this is an absolutely living book that is used by me and my children to read, but we will read. we today hmm very famous and very short poem. well, the first line, there is a wavy cloud. eh, and we immediately remember how

not everyone remembers further. what is there ivan sergeevich turgenev left his mark. that is, he prompted fet to replace one word with another. the dust was right there, but yes , even without taking into account the fact that this is not quite fet, but half fet , half turgenev, all the same, let's hmm , let's see how to solve the riddle that afanasyevich here offers us. i i love to quote one of my colleagues as a wonderful literary critic. who once told me i don't know how he does it. i mean in general. this feje is boring. and so many say, he always writes in streams about nights. eh, dawn, but timid breathing about music in the light of the transition from shadows to dawn and no more . hmm how to read this with pleasure and discover there the secret that it contains. well, before

you read these eight lines. i'll preface. this is a reading of very brief comments fet is a hmm poet missing associations of missing links. well, for example, an apple is a pear, there is a boxing pear association. there is this boxing football association, well, too, there is a common denominator of football ball sports. the ball of the apple, yes, that is, we went in a circle and each link has no logical contradictions. but if a pear and football, then it is already an association test. no. here fet is such a darkness is caused by the fact that some intermediate links. well, as it were , hmm. and they move aside, go into the shadows. here is the shortest poem by a cloud wavy dust rises in the distance, on foot or on horseback , i can’t see in the dust, i see someone galloping on a dashing

horse, friend, my distant friend. remember me nothing is clear. what is the connection between the fact that someone jumps on me, and suddenly a distant one should remember me. well, look. e, that at the beginning we see a cloud of wavy dust standing in the distance. we don't see what caused it. it could be the wind, as we'll find out later. uh, it's the dust of a brave horseman, but it's not mentioned anywhere. what is this equestrian rider? someone rides on a dashing horse. we should have said. well, now he drove up closer , galloped closer, and i see, of course, that by the swiftness of the approach - this is horse, this is not here. see. what is obtained, history. this man gallops towards me, but not towards me. well, it seems to be jumping from point a to some point b, which does not coincide with my location. he gallops towards me, but past me, and

swiftly carries him there, what does this mean? this means that probably at this point b. someone is waiting for him then the person who thinks he sees all this, because he raises these clouds of dust. e, the rider is so, uh, moving rapidly towards this conditional point b. and i'm at point x and ​​i can't move anywhere. i don't have a horse, i don't have the ability to move, but at some point y this is also missing. this is incomprehensible. if i have a friend, yes, to whom i would also e with all my heart. uh, i would go on wings on a horse, whatever. well, at least on a space rocket. i would say a man of the xxi century, but i have no opportunity for this. i i send him a signal friend, my distant friend. remember me right now, when i can't get close to you. this is such an insight, instant insight, uh, that pointe

is a turning point, which fet usually misses. if you skip this, then you get just smooth rhymes, and not the great fet , it always happens with him in these eight lines, which, of course, will be included in any anthology of absolutely brilliant and classic poems. well. contrasting with the poetry of the 19th century, let's return to the literature of modern and let us again remember that you, while working very hard, have worked and will continue to work in modern literature. this is evgeny popov , this is pelevin, this is makanin. this is astafiev, this is aitmatov well, that's what immediately came to my mind, maybe something else. e was the last, too, this is all modern prose. this is gregory the servant not savely in the theater round. and in our practice, this is evgeny nekrasova with the unfortunate moscow well, the performance

in the rings is called, but consciously, consciously , i still force myself to do it. uh-huh read search material that is interesting and possible to transfer to the theatre. that's it if we say, not everything can be on stage. in fact, hmm, if there is some topic that seems important to you or that worries you, otherwise you can come up with a form , roughly speaking, i don’t know the text that couldn’t be put. no, the topic is well, the topic is in the text. this, of course, is not something that you will forgive, for such rudeness, a parallel, i am not a director. i don't know how it's done, so i wanted to know not how you feel. e. well, here some kind of hmm a breath of time, like the germans, they say the website zeitgeist and you are looking for what it is we correspond at once and the theme and the material, probably, happens in different ways. that is, there is a situation when you realize that right

now i would like to talk about this topic. and what about this somewhere some kind of intersection? yes , what is written like this can also be, well, as a rule , no, as a rule, you read and understand that you cannot help but do it, because here, well, it is important there. for you, it means that it will be important for someone else, right? talk about it and then you can adapt any text. the main thing is for the sake of it. what do you know, i, uh, have been talking to students about chernyshevsky’s novel for many years, uh, a lot, yes , which i really like and hmm well, we all remember vladimir nabokov’s taunts in the novel the gift, when his hero, or rather not nabokov himself, but his hero, when she in cherdyntsev , he scoffs at how strained, dry, imperfect this book is, but this is very funny to me, because, uh, it says on the second page that i, as an author, am deprived of any artistic talent. that is, this book on which it says i'm a bad book. hmm, that is, the ban on only one says that a bad book. the author himself said that it is

bad in the sense that you are used to. uh-huh yes, everyone judges simply from their personal ideas of requirements. yes, to literature they don’t hear that a person has simply said himself that he judges me from the point of view already that is. are you spinning something else? yes, well , chernyshevsky, right in the title it says that this book is not about what to admire. uh, or enjoy a book about what to do. well, this is a thought to me, uh, sunk, uh, into my heart now that practically sometimes the text itself does not know that it has theatrical potential. for me, the most amazing moment in the profession. here, well, there is a theatrical director, let's say. well, yes, this is when the letters suddenly come to life, yes, that is, it was a kind of plane , as it seems to you, a plane, yes, that is, the letters are also written, and when you then look, and you understand that this is turning from letters into living people relationships between people. this

appears volume and they exist right in front of you, real living people. here is the transition from the text to here in reality for me it's magic absolutely remain, however. here and here, that the letters are also not a plane. yes, that is, when are you? that's why. probably why i like to read books, sheets, because for me the text is, as it were, vertical, that is, i have to go deeper into it, that is, my head works like that. yes, what do i see, and then it seems to me that it is stratified like this. something i seem to be, as if you are diving somewhere under the water, where this whole world arises. yes, i have it so in my head, therefore, when it goes like this for me, well, somehow , when from above, well, yes, when does the plane go? yes , i have no opportunity. here, it seems to me, to dive there, but in fact, of course, everything moves apart, and there is volume, yes and our imagination works independently. here's a risky thing, i'll say such a provocative not to your address at all, but i uh a lot. uh, i look, uh, staged or film adaptations and

i catch myself that i don’t need them, on the contrary, well, to kind of populate with you after all. for me, the main thing, well, not that so that the plane is not that e horizontal what it is but what is e in the word. at a temperature in addition to visuality, that is , if it is not said to me in the text, it does not matter to me what gestures raskolnikov has if it is not said in the text. it doesn’t matter to me what color oblomov’s eyes are and how, he’s an idiot, so uh, i just feel some kind of inhibition whenever i see a staging that seems to me, uh, well, some narrower and more private than book, and the secret is that it is always important to agree with the author, and that’s just the same now in my head immediately an example, like a daughter, a little of my friend her. so the owner of the ballet for the ballet, then this or at the conservatory. she was still small and she said that i liked my mother more. here is the conservatory. he says why she says, ah, because i can

imagine everything myself, therefore, of course , our imagination does not work, and it is always richer than what you then see, here, before moving on to uh, the last one time for performances by a non-beautiful minister i will ask you, if possible, only if it will not such a violent movement, but here in one phrase to formulate. well, for example, why leave them and why pelevin is different, it seems that at the school tsar fish is a teacher of literature, we had a wonderful lesson, in addition to the program and while still quite small, that there was tenth grade, yes, a shock, and then after a lot years, when a conversation with oleg tobacco stick. take it. put something, here is the list of authors, i hear the last name of them, astafiev instantly, i say i will do the fish. yes, well, not the king of the fish, yes did flying goose fish. yes, because even then there was an understanding of a huge huge scale. it's this person for me

, or in a thick modern hmm well, victor petrovich, a giant writer, agrees. it's nothing at all. yes, more powerful for all time, yes it is written to the fatherland. yes , that's why just right away well astafiev and further, of ​​course, this epic character of this author of his e relationship with space with space is formulated. yes , completely unique language, and you understand that remove and leave it and leave it nothing will remain rough. here it is impossible to translate his dramaturgy. yes, that is, well, in a dialogue, because everything leaves if his evaluation of his comments of his formulation leaves. yes, and that's the relationship. here are his phrases. well phrases can stay on stage. well, yes, only in a different way, yes, what would we have done, then, yes, in gusev, it does not suddenly remake others. suddenly this is the production of the two thousandth such a powerful impression or the first of 2001. the second one is

somewhere in the beginning. yes, but as for pelevin, this is generally a separate one. history is one of my most favorite writers explain why? of course not. only i saw that even when i did the performance, and still only agents. let's go through agents. no, it’s some kind of coincidence of my inner brain of what’s in my head of my inner fantasy and my ideas about something, it’s such a personal coincidence with the fact that as a person exists, he writes he sees the world as it is paradoxical, how provocative it is. yes? where does he go, what topics does it strike me , amazing, and i accept it, and it's endless like it especially. here, oddly enough, previously swaddled. well, let's talk about these two performances now. uh, one, as you already said, it was staged at the russian economic youth theater in a beautiful frame

we love and, uh, this is an unusual production, because, as it is correct to say, it is not interior. yes? well, somehow this is such a story, good-natured cats. love. no, no, just a dog, nothing at all. now the attitude has generally changed, too, now, as if i’m letting a single cat out, this is such an impact in the novel. yes, this is lady carmen chukovskaya wrote down the words on the ancient akhmatova that hmm four questions for a russian person. the main thing - is it tolstoy or dostoevsky a cat or a dog of tea or coffee, and pasternak or a manshtab? well, i had an answer before, i had an answer now. yes, it was just yes now cats. yes, too, what about the minister sin and this novel. yes, the initiative came from the actor viktor panchenko, who, but suggested that he said, let's do it further, the idea arose to do it not on the stage, but in the courtyards of the ramt. and when they brought me here are the yards, and i saw

these roofs. i realized that we do everything in chocolate, something was even done in the valley in one yard, and there hmm, where alexander was playing in another yard. we're still playing in the lobby. we are still playing. well, as if we walked around the theater, as actually, as cats should do, and the theater laughed a lot, because, well, then, so impudent, we now began to let us into the courtyard. we are already there on top of all plans. and then they occupied the whole theater, and then it's a wonderfully beloved team. i really love borodina alexey vladimirovich i love this theater very much. i love artists very much. there it was such happiness, love, we did not talk about stopping e based on the novel by alexei varlamov yes , my soul, pavel, which alexei vladimirovich borodin personally did. so this is the name of happiness in this theater, so everything came together and the courts and teams and borodin continued to happen. here, yes, the performance, when you know what it's called? i didn’t expect it myself, well, i’ll watch the video with the rehearsal there. we teach them all the time and

smile all the time. we are happy all the time but the effects of this performance, he surpassed all our expectations, because how it affects the audience. not only did i sell the apartment and began to travel in moscow and did not live without housing for a year, because then i realized what happened. it appears to be cat text. yes, this is the main character, just a cat and attendants from the play. and this is such a tradition from hoffmann cat mur, there and so on and so on in moscow thanks to this saveliy, yes, well, i'm joking, but in principle, of course, it has changed. something he changed a lot in us all, but it's still a performance that is played in blocks. we play. that's just summer autumn, come now, it won't be long to wait. maya was hoping to start to cats now let's. uh, let's also say a few words about the performance of the rings, uh, uh, evgenia nekrasova is absolutely a mysterious

story. yes, at some point , suddenly, from time to time, i say to myself , come on, take it and look at what is happening in literature. then such a moment came and there was a happy moscow, which for a long time lay in a chest as the daughter of maria andreevna here. happy yes, well, nekrasova as an author interested me very much. and this story is generally very strange for the theatre, generally strange, because it is, of course, fantastic realism, what is it called? yes and this topic, i found it. she wrote zhenya in the seventeenth or eighteenth year, in my opinion, yes, but i found it somewhere in the twentieth, but there was no pandemic yet. much is foreseen. yes, because you take this material and analyze it from the point of view of what happens to people when something like this happens. global cataclysms, and you can't fight it. would you still be forced to adapt, despite any of your emotions, how would the theaters be ahead of

reality, how is he in this sense? yes, this is a very important story. yes, plus it is also so talentedly written. there is so much humor, there is so much surprise, because these situations change every day. the name in the rings somehow evokes associations with some snakes. not only garden, there boulevard and so on. this was meant the target was generally meant as a target, as well as to his wife. it was also implied that it seems to us that we are protected, and as a result , this protection turns out to be a target. that is, it is concentration. oh yes, where it turns out to be easy to get to, it's clear. here i caught a few things scary, they are important. uh, for myself from our conversation. the most important thing, perhaps, is that sometimes the text is not suspected. uh, what meanings can be extracted from it and we can extract. these are from different texts. sometimes even as if from mediocre, but imperfect is the first and second that the text and the theatrical text in the broad sense of the word, it is ahead of reality. well, yes, very intuition