[000:00:00;00] my reason was exceptionally practical at that time in the united states, no one published me now in full print, but then no one and i entered into an agreement with a french publisher in the seventy-ninth year and arrived in the eightieth year, not intending not to live in france nothing came. just save the book contract publisher. my bankrupt contract was invalid. i saved the book and other books were printed. somewhere around 83 years old. i realized that it’s more convenient for me to live in france, because all my activity has moved there activity and uh hmm well the first one is about three years old. i lived between france and, uh, new york , a lot of people in france don't like me. i have a lot of enemies, and don't think that i don't have

to think, i don't have them. i have a lot of them there , no less than here. but there are also a lot of friends. there are people who love me, how to write or and uh, love me as a person who speaks out sharply, but frankly and takes his position precisely his own, not following the herd. so our relationship is difficult over creative with that country. lemon, well lemon lemon, despite all your antics, altogether extravagance. i really love. we have been friends for a very long time, although we fought. once one of his most famous books. this testicle is tilted. let's put it mildly, to express it as a rejection of all aspects of american life. how much do you agree with them or how much? well, there are, in general,

we are talking about such american moments, because i know her. well, not almost by heart, but i remember such phrases when he says, this is america, this is a crazy country where i live, these are crazy people who are this ridiculous fountain, everything in general and while he is like a poet, like andreev they when what are you talking about , the gun reincarnated at that moment was almost american today it will be in europe tomorrow this book has no american mood. he has such hysterical sobs, let's say i'm sitting here on the balcony cooking. there borscht you bastards americans lured me in, everything. first of all, eddie between us they say, he always messed around, he never

worked in his life, except for some kind of restaurant day. in america there is a welfare. you live on it very well. i have friends who live 10-12 years, all of a sudden on the couch, write and that's it and hmm i was very surprised when his friend became a european, because he i will never forget such a moment, we will take a lot of drinks, in general everything and jewish, well moves us to paris if you don't like america so much and he is so much to me eric is such a poetic person here. now i will die him. no, i'm almost french in general i lived 10 years in paris i 'm leaving for america becoming american a citizen, in general, eddie is leaving paris now he writes, i and the european boy

are far from being a boy. here i find a person alien. this is the culture of america and other writers of poets. and what is the fundamental difference for you between life in america and life in france? there are a lot of fundamental differences . you understand that you need to talk about it, many days of the week, so that everything needs to be said about it in everything, yes, because the structures of that other country. they are completely different let's say even here are a few examples let's say in france how and in russia, er, there is a class of intelligentsia in the united states , there is no class of intelligentsia, there are such cultural centers around the universities. there is new york. e with its culture and almost everything. mostly. it is a very anti- intellectual country. i'm not saying it's

bad or good. there they can imagine hmm as much as they want. uh, they can write out scientists in the ward and pay. and money and having the best minds, but that doesn't change the point. this is really an anti-intellectual country , a country of the masses, where the middle class rules. uh, france is still a country of intellectuals, where even where the president should be, uh, look at the veterans. he is such a confucian jesuit and pharaoh at the same time and he really has something like that. here from the pharaoh from such wisdom of departure from all these centuries of the french state. this is where the state is highly respected in a country where there have been so many revolutions. uh, the state still. this is some kind of sacred and first value. everything would be fine, and in this country they would finally

understand that the state is not an end in itself. a these are the means of protecting the nations and if they thought about this state they would not destroy it. you've been living in paris for 10 years already, you're a french citizen , and you've been on tv with french newspapers and magazines. uh, wonderful you are signs of french patriotism. and i am for the great indivisible france, this is true when they say that it is necessary to give up the new caledonia. i say don't give it away. how is it that we will give tomorrow will ask britain the day after tomorrow. uh, this very basque will be demanded by their state. absolutely, i am for great states because of great cultures, because everything that is

small is almost always mediocre. over the past two years, with his articles and, uh, public speaking. you're hmm kind of trying to actively intrude, er, into public life. e of the country and do you think that your twenty-year absence has played a kind of bad joke, because, in my opinion. e now e is a poet in russia no more than a poet. in my opinion. what is happening now is exactly what is probably characteristic of the west to write this person, who writes books and nothing more, yes, judging by the reaction of the people, uh, that i met here and many uh, and on the streets and at parties and whatever. not at all. i cause great and

certain admiration of supporters. his say my ideas and at the same time resent other people. it's all physical. this is a very high intensity of passions. no no. i think that, let's just say, soviet writers were very confused, many in that situation of shifting various social layers and they completely lost themselves, they do not understand. eh, they often don't understand what's going on. i think i'm one of the first. just became clear and distinct. marked in the first place, for which i secondly, marked on which side? i am barricades and, uh, that's why i sometimes cause such reactions of indignation. and admiration

too. even now, when lemons are the devil, i don’t publish limonov’s journalism in my articles. i don't love her. and yet. i understand what drives him and i suspect that he is driven by something completely different from what people who consider lemons to be theirs today, because i think that lemons are not man, the width of the russian. limonov, not a man of all this right. bastards excuse me, for which he is now making him his writer. i think that at one point the lemon will be with them. that's when they, if they start to take up, if all this, well, red-brown they call her something else, and then they call her patriotic hooray patriotic military and so on hmm

bastard, but still start to take up. now, when they become a mass, the lemon will calmly show, and then it will turn from us and from them and he will turn away from them, because for them, one of the main features of limonov is that he does not keep pace with anyone and loves to pee the wind against you. and now, if today everyone loves yeltsin or would, he will be against him, but if tomorrow zhirinovsky becomes the head of state and everyone starts singing praises of zhirinovsky lemons, it will be with those who are in the minority, that's where i have it from him . it feels like a lemon, it's boring to walk, uh, with all the lemons together, a little bit of a boy on the contrary. whose laurels

haunt you now, an oscarald or lukel mishima or bakunin and che guevara well, if we talk about laurels, then i’m not a vain person now i was, uh, how ambitious, but i have already satisfied most of my ambitions to a large extent, so i wouldn’t look for lavrov especially, i don’t even pretend to at home, what kind of political leader? i just see that in this country there are a lot of deep, incompetent people who were not embarrassed to get into politics, they did crazy catastrophic, uh, just tragic, uh, crimes and uh. somehow apply myself to help this people my people. and how could it be otherwise, but i do not refuse, nor from nishima. uh, like

laurel tires, my god. i’m cultural and rather bakunin’s laurels participated at 11:00 am, in my opinion, european revolutions are not very successful for me. then laurels, whom i don’t know, lenin or dzerzhinsky if we digress, of course, a lot of what he does carefully calculated i think that his current position is political, uh, the position that pushed him, so to speak, into the camp, relatively speaking, they are right. uh, it, too, is not the result of deep convictions. and the result of a cold calculation that this is what can throw him to a certain level. e of the reader's consumer interest in the personality of lemons, apparently, uh, felt and felt

, probably, absolutely correct and this calculation is absolutely resonant, that u get such a degree of advertising such a degree, so to speak, eh hmm, the universal human load directed to his personality. uh, in the left camp, he can't. and if he is here in the right camp, where the number of great people of great minds, uh and great talents much less it will be easier for him, and he knows for sure that since this will cause a confrontation and he will be criticized and reproached from the other camp. this is additional advertising for him, but anyway, when the crowbar confession starts here, namely, this is what these people are counting on, as i assume. i, so to speak, know him , i build for him this series of assumptions,

which may turn out to be erroneous, but then excuse me, i warn you that this is my personal, so to speak. e opinion. e. hmm attention to the lemon will return written books. limonov is now arbitrarily right, and according to the point of view they will translate perfectly. in western languages, er, lemons will be published for this will receive royalties. uh, will get the fame of the press and so on. e, how much to say so in the opinion of some, i spit cleanly and the fan did not smell, such glory is bad, after all. it doesn't matter. e. in many conversations in many and pistol documents of lemons, the fat one told me. i only want

one. i want to be printed. in the diary of a loser you wrote everything serves, but no one leads. in the sense that he does not lead , he perceives himself as a person who at least knows the direction. and yes, of course, i at least know the way out of uh, the current impasse. i think i'm not alone and what do you think? needs to be stabilized. uh, the country needs to be removed from power. ah, the current government. we need to stop democratic experiments. above the people , it is necessary to recreate the territory of russia again , including in it 25 million people who find themselves outside the borders of the russian state proper. and uh recreate everything possible structures, excluding. it may be that the communist party is allowed again, not

so that it occupies a leading position, so that it is among all other parties and let it take power away from the hands of the bourgeoisie, who seized it completely dishonestly. so to transfer it to some type of national assembly, which was attended exclusively by all political parties. now they are talking about a government of national accord. it must inevitably be done, it must inevitably be done. it might even be spring now. otherwise it will be different later such a war. and the enormities that we do not even imagine, but cannot imagine today. i want to die young can't be lemon old this was written 15 years ago. yesterday

was your birthday. you are 49 years old. i'm still not old can't say i'm an old person look. i have and had all my manifestations old people don't drive. get out of yugoslavia for the war, you can be a sleepy and living corpse for 20 years. here i am, i had a lot of friends, once a childhood that never woke up for 20 years already dead. your wife, writer natalia medvedeva, unfortunately, is practically unknown to anyone. in our country. 15 years younger than me. she is the author of two novels already published in france, they are published in germany, one of the first is called mama i love a crook, the second one is in

wonderland. and uh, besides that, she is a singer, she sang for many years in nightclubs in cabaret, she was a model, a beautiful woman much taller than me, i don’t know yet, a very beautiful woman with a very deep voice to such a magnificent performer from the old russian romances. and songs. and here we are living together at the end of this year will be 10 years. we quarrel, we don’t live violently at times, but we live, this is my longest poem to date, e union, which is called i love

and now i remember a lyric poem. flies fly and fly phrases the evening moves on, but not all at once the brother smiles, quietly, there is a tomato , and the sister swings, and there is enthusiasm in the sister, and the sister sings an unknown russian song very sad, sometimes wide, sometimes narrow, this song says in real words how fell in love one and the other kissed each other, and in the evening , slowly in russia, the brother rises and goes out through the door, and the sister is touched by her own singing. a tear rolled down with vision behind it another rolls. and now she has a stain on her white dress. yes, it's all the same after all, no one loves something, and the town is small and the books are all sad, and in october. we want to name the program. and you are eduard saenkov.

looking for better love. call it the return of the prodigal son, by the way, not so bad. this actually corresponds to the plot of my many books. at the beginning of the flight of the prodigal son, and then the return and return to everything. to the motherland to the people i am a prodigal son, maybe a prodigal, but a faithful son. we hope that we have at least slightly managed to lift the veil over the phenomenon of eduard limonov a. if not, then at least for the past hour you had

an interesting interlocutor today, perhaps the whole program led konstantin goodbye. good day, dear viewers. i'm dmitry bak, as always, i invite you to the next edition of the literary podcast. he called let them not speak. let them read and we turn this slogan literally. to all our wonderful viewers. they can read e-books and listen to audio books, they can read papyrus parchments , they can watch theatrical performances. we hope you enjoy reading. today we are talking with the director, artistic director of the theater practice with the head of the fourth

acting course of the moscow art theater school, marina stanislavna brusnikina. greetings marina stanislavovna hello i am very glad, that you are with us today. well, uh, according to the tradition that we have developed, we will start from the past. we are at the beginning of the conversation. well, there is such an anthropological fragment, and it will be a conversation about marina stanislavovna brusnikina about how you came to the profession . how young actors are studying now, maybe there is some difference, maybe, uh, everything is the same, how it all was and how it all happens. now i graduated from the moscow art theater school a very long time ago and course leader. we had oleg nikolaevich efremov, and even then he was always so focused on modern literature on what was happening outside the window, we were brought up. so

the theater cannot but respond to the contemporary to the present. and what you need to hear, see, know, and this, apparently, is efremov's inoculation to be interested in modern drama, namely in modern literature, so how can i say that something has changed a lot in teaching there, when we were taught and how we work now. i am not i can that is, specifically, in each workshop it happens in different ways, but here is my personal, our personal upbringing, it was like that. why not take anything for granted, but not agree with anything, not to look for idols for yourself , to try to change all the time all the time, but to search for what is happening today. well, i would like to clarify, of course, this slogan is not to accept anything. on faith does not mean that what is not accepted on faith is not true. well, i, for one, ask students in the same studio school. pushkin is a genius. why am i asking? i am very difficult answer. right there, yes, you remember brodsky, who believed that pushkin was not a poet at all. and it's not a rhyme. yes, yes, you understand,

yes, and then you are, as it were, between these different opinions. you are already, as it were, developing your own and making sure that pushkin is a genius at a time when you are able to make sure of this just for you. he is a genius just for this case, for how you read it in this sense, of course, of course, genius yes, but you can’t take it on faith, otherwise it will. here is such a two-hundred-year-old tradition in the theater, and sometimes in the theater a two-hundred-year-old tradition. well, such a risky, uh, we have, if we started talking about the school, then this is a very interesting topic in general, the traditions of the school, but because, of course, the school is something that exists on the foundation of selected knowledge. and of course, a school in a non-tradition outside of accumulated experience is generally impossible, but it is impossible to live only by this, because this is how everyone understands any tradition in their own way. yes, and interprets in his own way, and m-m. so

it is necessary for these on the base on this one, being to continue to see, hear and understand and move somewhere, because you can of course mothballed such you know the underwater kingdom. here he is so well calm. here's what 's happening on the surface. everything else is already there. and you lived a wonderful life in this underwater kingdom, it seems that it’s a classic, that everything is fine, that everything stands still. when we analyze the classics seriously, you understand that it’s not the problem , the themes, or the people that are changing, and that if it didn’t resonate with us now, we wouldn’t be reading it, and we would have long gone along with pushkin’s books somewhere gone far, far away from us right very important thought is that not only listen to contemporary texts. this is number one. i completely agree with you here, but the old texts, the classical texts, are also changing, of course, they are read in an absolutely new way for us. eh, in us sound in us in our experience in our space. is it wonderful that this is learning,

that theater is in the minds of the audience? yes, yes, yes, of course, literature, tell me, is it true ? hmm, such an opinion that the school? after all , it lives no longer than one or two generations, it is still e well built around e not only tradition, but also a master or a master plus a follower. is it possible to speak of a two-hundred-year school or a hundred-year school oleg nikolaevich efremov, of course, a man who has passed away, but this school lives unconditionally. we can say, again, exactly, because this experience that has been accumulated accumulates in layers, and it does not go anywhere. yes, and it is only important that it accumulates, it seems to me that it is also very important to understand that school is not never happens. there is one person there. yes, for example, yes to any school, but i i will speak on the example of our era school

student. eh, there are four courses. they are completely different courses. these are absolutely different workshops, these are absolutely different people coexisting in understanding. yes, on vkontakte in dialogue with each other. that is, our disputes in the pulpits. well, you know, you are present. yes, of course, yes. and of course, each workshop is headed by a personality, yes, with its own performance in the theater this is a constant clash. this is a constant dialogue. what how? actually life, yes, and it does not win here some one opinion, right? well, as sometimes there is time for yes, suddenly something takes over, something leaves, then it changes. well, it's like a living life, there are many talented people, many opinions, and it is in this interchange that some kind of living and interesting birth takes place. that is, even in the same institution. studio - this institute has four workshops. i think they can be called a workshop, which is headed by igor yakovlevich voltovitsky and sergey ivanovich zemtsov. and they have two masters. oh these guys have

today. hey, they're freshmen. these are, uh, students , uh, led by evgenia aleksandrovich pisarev, these are, uh, students in the workshop of viktor anatolyevich ryzhakov, and finally, brusnikin's workshop. so it is still called, and uh, of course, uh, the memory of dmitry vladimirovich brusnikin is still breathing here. o. e in my wonderful friend and earlier still roman filovicha cow, of course, yes, this is andrey alexandrovich myagkov efremov, this is the line of our teachers. all this continues now. yes, we continue. this is a graduation course what do you put, what is being done a lot teacher diploma we have nine diplomas of performances and some are very interesting. i remember some, but it's better, of course, to eat at the same time. ah, the classical repertoire. there is the same goncharov right? yes. e, tell

well, is it really. well, we started to work, in general. that's what concerns the work with myths. and with such mythological literature, this is now a very interesting direction. yes, right now, in our time, some kind of understanding, you know this never. eh, never never between people, when this problem is up to global, connected in general with space with space from well, with the epic in general, now what they see there again somehow starts to sound very powerful for young guys. uh, the content of some kind of eternal. yes, yes, it is not subject to the changes that are now so rapidly us, but on the other hand. that's exactly what understanding is. we need a new time. eh, it gives a lot of strength to understand that everything is not accidental. yes, everything is included in the conditions of the game in this life of our human being, right? such cataclysms collisions of term fate with space. well, these are the turning points. suddenly comes out of the literature. somehow very powerful to the forefront and so the iliad

we began to work with very interesting storytellers by this method. this is our amazing teacher. the well-known artist alexei rozin and a wonderful teacher, sergei shchedrin is a director and teacher, and all of these are also our students. here they are, ilya barabanov, they suffered for a long time, so with the ester with the students, when well, it’s clear, yes, yes, from this more some are told so creatively that it becomes interesting, it becomes like a kind of theatrical pre-performance. i remember how we dismantled with e students that the first famous line of the iliad, there is no e o anger goddess, not anger o goddess. it was a whole argument, but when they didn’t understand that there was no anger about the goddess, it would have been inflamed by the son. and there the goddess of wrath, singing achilles and peleus son. we are not naedita, polyadova, hilaus, little that i remember from ancient greek, which i once taught, but this is the first line. i have forever

rare person. you remember two lines in greek. well, how do omega prefer? yes? yes, no, well, in the old days they taught ancient greek latin at the philological faculties. i don’t have much left, but i can make out the epigraphs, but this is not about that, but about how it combines with ivan goncharov and completely modern things. well, yes, it was a principled position. yes , they walk in completely different directions and at the same time they have wonderful educators, modern teachers. just bygone professions and professions of the future are very this is already a strong work and at the same time a classic at the same time goncharov because there are certain individualities on the course that i wanted to reveal in this particular material. we have a wonderful guy who is right here oblomov so it was important. you take into account something, yes, and such things, yes, so that some kind of implementation of them. now we have a wonderful performance. come e days of our lives or not. andreeva left. yes hmm disciple of the mighty. m-m arseniy

meshcheryakov is a young director. he came himself gathered the guys all in him wanted it together do. i'm just so proud proud, because the amazing work there is also absolutely wonderful, guys. today with him to our viewers. suddenly, who does not know what verbatim means literally literally. well, yes, this is the technique that turns a performance into an ordinary speech, ordinary scenes from life, usually what has already been or may be, yes, i understand correctly. well, in this case, when collecting is the lack of literary material. how so? yes, this is going to live testimonies. well, for some the topic given there. there, in this case , they talked, and with people of departed professions, there are telephone prompters. i don’t know what kind of people who are in the profession, who practically either left or they don’t exist and talked to people who are trying to understand. to analyze these, what’s next is curious, do you remember, uh, that arseny of tarkovsky , my beloved, has a poem about this now i will try to remember. eh, the hammer of gold has thrown its ariadnina the thread has run

out to watch the dying of crafts is like burying yourself, and in the end there, uh, wonderful the stanza, which was written in the sixties, when there was no artificial intelligence yet and already an electronic lyra from her programmers, secretly composes cantemir verses in order to end with her own verse. and when there in this performance there were already taxes of people who talk about the professions of the future. i'm sitting, i don't understand a word, what do they say huh? yes, yes, yes, different vocabulary, this is a different language. it's all changing so fast and moving away from tactile memory. and hmm this is a performance of the ultrasound of moscow, they provided us with a large number of b objects and these objects, when we placed these objects on the tables there, you don’t even understand why this who is what is this? because you no longer know why a programmer works for this program, and half of humanity in developed countries.

yes, programmers are working to unembodie the action. yes, to make it all happen. some kind of code, i was quite recently an amateur photographer at the prishvin and prishvili exhibition, explaining how a two-spiral photographic tank differs from a single-spiral one, showed tactilely single-coil is charged like this. i have a memory. i could do it from two helical. so that's what's gone and this performance is certainly a wonderful work that catches the zeitgeist. e, one of the characteristics of which is the loss of tactile memory of the onset of some completely new sense of time. yes, yes, it turns out and it is important to hear it, it is important to understand, it is important to display it, it is important to work. this information is very important. well, maybe there is a difference, here in such an important issue as employment, without revealing the secret of subtlety. i am not talking to him now about this, but about

the textbook disputes of the repertory theater about its decline in its longevity. so, was it 20 30 40 years ago, is it difficult or easy? it was built, about the same number was on the course, it was always difficult. always difficult. and when we were graduating it was difficult, than they took little to the theater. yes, young people and periodically there are periods when it is almost impossible, because no one needs theater , then some moments arise. suddenly the bright ones are amazing, when suddenly the theater needs young artists and it’s not clear somehow this is so this is a young thing. yes, it's very young. yes, we hope yes, all the time that there are still some opportunities, there are very good distributions to get settled and work, well, thank god we really wish that they are successfully distributed. pentalgin extrigel against pain in muscles and joints contains

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literary podcast, let them talk, let me read it dmitry bak, and now, according to our tradition, we are doing, uh, three things, either we read a poem, or a quote from the classics, or, i just show some old book. well today we are compatible, second and third. well first of all, this is, of course, an old book. this is my favorite tom afanasyev afanasevich fet, to be more precise. this is a duplex. they are just intertwined together. this is 1912. we can see from the bookmarks that this is an absolutely living book that is used by me and my children for reading, but we will read. we are today hmm very famous and very short poem. well, the first line, there is a wavy cloud, uh, and we immediately remember when not everyone remembers that ivan sergeyevich turgenev left his mark there. that is, he prompted it to be replaced, there is one word others. the dust was right there, but even without taking into account the fact that this is not quite fet

, but half-fet, half-turgenev, nevertheless , let's hmm, let's see how to unravel the riddle that afanasyevich fet offers us here. i really like to quote one of my colleagues, a wonderful literary critic, who once told me i don't know how he does it. i mean, in general it's boring again. and so many say, he always writes in streams about nights about flowering, and timid breathing about music, light, the transition from shadows to dawn and no more. hmm, how to read it with pleasure and discover there the secret that is contained there. well, before you read these eight lines. i'll preface. this reading with a very brief commentary by fet is hmm the poet of missing associations of missing links. well, for example, there is an apple pear,

there is a pear boxing association, a boxing football association, well, there is also. there are common denominator sports, soccer ball and apple ball. yes, that is, we have gone in a circle and each link has no logical contradictions. and here if pear e and football, then already ct associations. no, this is fet and this darkness is caused by the fact that some intermediate links. well, as it were , they move aside and go into the shadows. here is the shortest poem, a cloud of wavy dust rises in the distance on foot or on horseback , you can’t see the dust, i see someone galloping on a light horse friend, my distant friend, remember me. can not understand anything. what is the connection between the fact that someone jumps on me and suddenly a distant one should remember me. well

, look. uh, what do we see at the beginning hmm a cloud of wavy dust stand far away, we do not see what caused it. it could be the wind, as we will find out later. and this is dust from a galloping horseman, but nowhere does it say that this is a horse rider horse or foot riders cannot be seen in the dust, and then i see someone galloping on a dashing horse. we should have said. well, now he drove up closer, galloped closer , and i see, of course, that by the swiftness of the approach - this is horse, this is not here. see. what is obtained, history. this man gallops towards me, but not to to me. well, it seems to be jumping from point a to some point b, which does not coincide with my location. he gallops towards me, but past me, and swiftly carries him there, what does this mean? this means that probably at this point b. someone is waiting for him then the person who sees all this thinks, because

raising these clouds of dust clouds. e, the rider is so , uh, moving rapidly towards this conditional point b. and i'm at point x and ​​i can't move anywhere. i don't have a horse, i don't have the ability to move, but at some point y this is also missing. this is incomprehensible. if i have a friend yes to whom would i also e with all my heart. uh, i would go on wings on a horse, whatever. well, at least on a space rocket. i would say a man of the xxi century, but i have no opportunity for this. i send him a signal, suddenly my friend is far away. remember me right now, when i can’t get close to you, this is such insight, instant insight, this is the e-pointe turning point that fet usually misses. and if you skip this, then you get just smooth rhymes, and not

great fet always does this with him in these eight lines, which, of course , will be included in any anthology of absolute brilliant and classic poems. well. in contrast to the poetry of the 19th century, let's return to modern literature and again remember that you, but you work very hard and will continue to work with modern literature. this is evgeny popov, this is pelevin, this is makannin. this is astafiev, this is aitmatov well, that's what immediately came to my mind, maybe something else, but there were the last ones, too, this is all modern prose. this is gregory the servant savely in the theater round. and in our practice , this is evgeny nekrasova with the unhappy, well , the performance is called in the rings, but consciously, consciously, i still force myself to do it. yeah, read to look for material that is interesting and possible to transfer to the theater. that's it if