first aid e in buying e means new housing improvement of their living conditions. and , of course, stimulate the economy. this is employment income. uh, economic mortgage growth is a good program. mortgage is a great answer. this is also clear to you. ah. well then, you know how to end the question on such a positive note. uh, he's so philosophical, uh, kind of, but interesting nonetheless, what does it take for our country to be the richest , happiest, and our citizens to be, respectively, the richest, the happiest? happy in the world. you know, you ask me this question, you probably really think about money when you talk about wealth. this is, uh, not only not so much absolutely, because we are rich in our culture , in our traditions and in our lives and values. as for the money

component, ultimately we know that wealth e comes from how we work, yes, the more entrepreneurship develops. the more we work, the more we become, uh, financially rich, but once again i repeat that wealth is not measured. only money. you know here i absolutely agree with you that the question is in self-development, which ultimately leads them to discipline and to, uh, what is called more efficiency in work? but, rather feel happy indeed. you can , regardless of how much money you have, how rich you are spiritually, how happy the people around you are, and how happy your loved ones and relatives are. it was a podcast, easy money, i'm its host mikhail khanov and today. we have in the guest was the minister of finance of the russian federation anton germanovich ivanov thank you very much. it was very nice to chat.

thank you psychic podcast, my name is natalya loseva i am a journalist and my co-host clinical psychologist ph.d. in psychology mikhail khors and our guest maria filat maria what happened you know, i will immediately start with the problem that i have i am the mother of six children, and i have children e 27-25 23 20 15 and 8. and now we live in a big nice apartment, and my problem is that my adult children ride me, that is, they don’t want me at all, let alone help me in something. yes, although we have a normal relationship , if i’m one on one with someone, yes, that is, for example, but with my eldest daughter, yes, that is,

now we married her , i’m fine. now it's in october. yes, she got out. and how many are in the apartment? now it’s five and you have a problem with whom with adult children? boys, two daughters and a son, that is the problem, what's the problem is that everyone wants me to be like before, i brought them up practically alone, yes, that is, i worked all the time, took me to school, to kindergarten in a nursery far away. i wanted to give them the best. what's the problem? the problem is that they are not something that they can't do to me, well, they don't do anything around the house. yes, even now, when they have already studied and received a good education, and they are all with a profession now, well, practically, yes, that is, they would have finished everything, picking work nearby, and i 'm not talking about material things. what are you asking? yes , i don’t know how to pay for the joint there, where financially, financially, i don’t participate in any way, because starts. why me? yes, that is, why

should i give, yes, and for example, a son who has just got a job, yes he graduated from his educational institution, he does not help you. well, maybe they somehow compensate for this by taking care of the younger ones there. that's just the problem, that nothing is cleaning, no help with the younger ones, right? that is, i again drive to school myself and there are still problems that i suddenly began to work small, yes, when i was eight six, four two. i also went to two more jobs. well, but i wasn't that old then. how much they have now grown up and want me to again do only household chores. that is, i still prepared pickles for everyone, because someone doesn’t eat, onions, someone doesn’t eat carrots for me, this fried this steamed one, and more . with all this, i should not have any personal life at all maria

, i understand correctly that everyone eats at home and cooks, basically i will bring it out. yes, everything is not. of course they can eat lunch. i don’t understand at all now who returns when and who goes where leaves, wait for the food in the refrigerator, then puts the food to buy. i, because no one goes to my store on their own , they should go to the refrigerator store with their own money, whoever uses the refrigerator is everything, but of course, they can and can not eat and can not dine. for example, if i cook something a lot. for example borscht. yes, they ate it, only on the first day on the second on the third. i flush it down the toilet. sorry further. why are you cooking borscht? whole pan, you know, i'm now and in complete confusion this is my problem. i do not understand, yes, how do i feel to lead in this situation, what should i do, but to sign the products or what? yes? or, for example, what's the problem? well, that is, touching the refrigerator, someone brought it. i don't know who brought, for example, cottage cheese. yes another

daughter got up in the morning. the cottage cheese was eaten by the one who bought it, she gets up a little later and says. and where is my cottage cheese, then he ate it, it turns out some. in general, i have rules in communal apartments. i would call it a hostel. yes, that is, it works. nobody does anything there. you can evict someone who breaks the dorm rules, you understand? well, probably, yes, they i also wish i was a cleaning lady. well, no, well, the question is not ethereal toilets or me? no, well, i still can, of course, sometimes, because the apartment is so big and yet i work and take care of a small child, but not for small schoolgirls. yes, i drive her in the morning at six in the morning. i get up at 8:00 for school. clearly, small children. yeah, well, i mean, i'm doing it , no one helps me. exactly this. well, if you only ask someone, here is a fifteen-year-old. he also went now, but he says. why are you asking me? i'm

busy too. i have volleyball. i have a section. well then is, that is, you are also engaged in cleaning alive. well, i may know to hire a cleaning lady once a month, because there are things that we are on the team, of course, you don’t have any cash desk at all. we put an envelope like this here a month ago, because everyone has different salaries for everyone, someone is still studying there. yes, there are those who work part-time and, as it were, the salary everyone is different and it turns out that they say you work a little implementation. yes, he says you please, how simple. well, like when he was little, yes, that is, i repeat, probably that i went to one polyclinic, and worked in another in two. yes, that is , a speech therapist, yes it is a polyclinic, where a man in this e in this whole story a man you have no man, we divorced my father, just in the thirteenth year. that is, you are without a man. yes, you have children from one five times from

one further. so i got married a second time and just the sixth child i have from and what happened to that? and, because he tried, he came into the family, the second husband, but lasted a year. well, because other people's children, yes, that is somehow. i already understood that he had his own somehow, we would quickly get to know each other. somehow fast. that's what i have, maybe this is my problem now, that there are problems with children yes, with older ones. well, i thought that everything was according to the classics of the genre, but they weren’t strong. they took it, but he didn’t really want to lead you, that is, she had some kind of conflicts, well, there are no conflicts, somehow there weren’t any conflicts. it's just that he had a slightly different second husband's perception. he thought that everything would be like festively beautiful that all princesses and everyone should. to make some such news from different children, many beautiful adult children, but nothing interesting, he had an opinion,

that's what he thought these children would look like. but i can’t answer this question for you, because how can i say, i am a woman and you are a man, psychology, that they are like you , probably, and you are like that, it seems to me very accommodating. yes, very much so. yes, very such aspiring cares with high value , namely yes, those who try from all sides. there here all to do the best to feed softly, put to sleep. what happened to the children? why do they as you think, they now, in any case, did not go to you. it's been a long time since this kind of consumer attitude towards you began. here, as if i can not say that it is even consumer. yes? that is, they love me, right, but what does it mean? well, they say, mary love is the case. well, i think that the problem is that together, yes, that is, when i am one on one with a child, if only with someone, yes, that is,

it turns out fine when they are all together, it turns out to me some kind of normal, that it turns out you have one-on-one understanding with the child of everything, that is, and not. so you say, listen, i'm very tired. i drag you half my life. this is what they don't want to hear. they cannot understand, it seems to them that life is one on one. yes, because in principle, i am quickly going to quickly orient myself, but let's go. yes, let's go. here we are now with my daughter we went to rest. yes, everyone bought tickets, petersburg no, not the younger one. here, yes you bought a ticket. no. that's right here she is. yes, when one on one, she says, mom let's go let's go or there, we went to the water park. well , here it is, one on one. she has concerns for me. and when in the family she says, and why should i do the same? i work five working days and two days off. i'm getting tired. and this, for example, vika da sits

at home and does nothing. vika says, i also work. i just finished working remotely. there she is preparing some kind of olympics there, that is, and in general others. there they begin to compare themselves with their girlfriends, yes, what is one child and whose mother dad gives everything you ever told them. how hard it was for you when you got divorced, when you bought an apartment, did you buy it yourself, or of course. yes? no, no, the fact of the matter is that we still paid off the loan. well, well, that’s just, yes, they once stood out with them, they told some episodes, when it was very very hard for you, when you were just exhausted , exhausted, why didn’t you see and don’t feel it seems to them that in she talked about it all with them. and what do you, and how many times did you say? well, now i'm trying to say they say, come on, it's okay. tell us some episode that you tried to convey to them. here, when

it was absolutely difficult, and you would really like your children to know and understand this episode. and so that they sit down with you, your girls, and cry. because the heart could not be broken from that. to have them submit to you at some point. i had to worry. with their illnesses, with their failures at school with a husband, whom i understand, you could not tear yourself away from the sofa, an unthinkable responsibility, which in fact women's fragile shoulders, but should not bear. you told them something like that. well, i told them. well, somehow tell us no, well, here, i remember when the sixth was on april 6 , yes, 2007, when i gave birth to my fifth child, i got up in the morning, took me with contractions, took the high school to sokol, then returned home

, took me to kindergarten two. excuse me, but the man who was sitting on the couch at that time was sleeping? well, mom, he just woke up, but he's basically all that matters. he says, well, you yourself want, why do you need a school with a spanish bias no at this point what he does he was not at home. he woke up and left and left. yes, he woke up and left. he even went to work there. he went from his mother, that is, his mother lived in a neighboring house. well, that is, he woke up at one, well, according to a certain regimen, and clearly went to his home there to his mother. and from there. he was already returning. and you yourself into this in this whole story, what you felt for me was so hard, that is, further. i went to kindergarten alone. yes, one, that is, this. well then she also went to give birth. not yet. no, not yet, then she returned to pick it up because of yes, and she took the garden to preparatory courses. they told me that they urgently need a card. so i went to

this fight. yes, it didn’t pull, but i knew what it was like to go to a tuberculosis dispensary. there, some kind of certificate had to be taken and brought this certificate. just met with a friend. i say, i 'll probably take the subway, because i had to go. well, a certain, uh, family planning center there. so it's a completely different county. yes she says you're crazy whether? i say, well, how are the traffic jams? i won't come. well, on the subway. i'm fine, but i had to be taken home. well, i took it home. understood? what all? well, and here i say, then good. i called him, he came, how would we get there and it turned out that i just gave birth and in 10 minutes you told this story in fact. well, the eldest she knows this, because she was her or not, the lions said. this is how you tell us. well, specifically no why? well, because we didn't have

the time when we are at home, we only talk about everyday topics , who went where and who does what mom robot mom terminator the most offensive, yes, that is, they don’t understand what i really like, what i even, well, even want to sleep yes, that is, i come home. what did you do at home today? but after all , you can have some kind of personal life, right? well, i'm not allowed to do this. i 'm not talking anymore, because you have a small child who speaks to whom, older children. who will you leave him with? well, as a matter of fact, i can date my girlfriend. yes, only during the day, because i took her to school at 6:00. i need to pick her up, how small again you guys are 8 years old. well, well, that is, we have a school, well, the second grade, yes, that is, not near the house. and here is the child, who is second from the end. and how old is he 15, yes, 15 years is not needed with him. i can specifically agree with him, but you can still have training with him, yes, well, he’s watching, he’s also the eldest, why am i here and that’s why i

have problems now is that, like with these two. they'll grow up like that too i generally what to do, most likely, such. if you do not change, then i have stopped working a lot now. yeah well, we still oh-oh-oh, it's not that change of psychic rejection. my name is natalya losva. i am a journalist. and my co-host clinical psychologist, candidate of psychological sciences mikhail khors and our heroine maria with a very difficult situation with children. i would even say a wonderful heroine, and we admire you. but now, answer me, please, maria to the question. who do you think shows our children? an example of how to how can they know that mom needs to be protected, that mom needs help, what, when you eat in this house? this food has to be paid for. well, the answer is society as a whole

is correct, but more specifically, who exactly is in this society? well, i think that i should kind of set an example, what kind of example should you set an example of what? well, i don’t care about my mother or how. there is no way to teach, you see, you are not here at all. you once gave them the opportunity. they said maybe they were little ones to take care of themselves. well, for example, you said there their eldest children when they were five or six years old married their eldest daughter. where is the independence of the eldest daughter, even if she is even married at the age of 27? well, that's what many parents say okay, mikhail uh-huh maybe i'm wrong, because yes, but i have enough independence. they even talk to me now. they say that here you are with ira together, and with your little daughter. you would have gone somewhere yourself, and we are here without you about it, yes. let's get back anyway. the question

is to what question? who can show them an example that your parents can take care of you, for example, hmm, somehow i don’t have it. well, we live separately. my mother lives separately, in my opinion, my mother yes, my father died. wait you take care of yourself. well, only she has two brothers. well , it means that she lives with her brother. i'm at the post office. just as much as i can, dear. maria, you take care of yourself. about yourself. yes i want to. well, only i don’t want or care. well, only now, probably, i realized that i also need to forget about myself. and what, it seems to me, is wild, sorry, right? but what you described to us. it is the sacrifice of sacrificing yourself to these children. and they can’t take an example from anywhere, you understand , children treat us the way we treat ourselves, to whom you don’t treat children to yourself.

well, you know what kind of problem i had, that is, when. well, i myself grew up, that is , with me, and my mother never worked. and that is , there were three of us, you were considered she did a feat and, accordingly, we were there for an extension. oh, for this, on a five-day week, we were in the camp for three shifts. i mean, i took care of myself. here, yes wait, five days, this is when you think you spent the night, and yes, well, kindergarten, when mom took her to kindergarten on monday or not? i forgot, yes, that is, i also have this protest, you understand? that is, i felt so bad myself. i remember my childhood here and, accordingly, when i gave birth to my children , yes, that is, there were also not three more , always in a different way and the extremes left, you know, so what should i do to start setting an example. but what about now , should i or leave? you are taking care of them again. yes you you in life put on this

apartment, and you're on your way now, right? and i also assume that the children, probably you are already hinted at. let him change. yes, it hints. yes, yes, class, you will change very well. no, i believe i said that this is our father's house. that is, you see the truth here, please, well, it means that since we are all together, that is, as it were, a family nest , as it were, yes. well, that is, at this apartment, we will not change, and the legal apartments of this apartment, in general, are just your legal apartments. this is yours, right? do you have a bedroom there bedroom? do we have our own? well we have four rooms. right now, e. well, i'm with my little daughter, that is , you don't have your own space, that is, you have your own corner. no, as i understand it, your kitchen, well, this is also a public place. well, i don’t know, but once again, you asked a question several times. what to do? are you still not sure what to do? i don't know how to implement it. yes? that is, as soon as i start caring. how do you talk

about yourself. yes, for example, i say, i will go to the theater today with natalya and my friend , she says to me, calamus, but she has no one to leave. firstly, ira has ira for 8 years already, that is, the world, could, yes, listen, do not repeat the crude mistake that you made with the elder uh-huh ira for eight years, in principle, the evening can stay, especially since this is not one . there in the apartment. there are other people. yes, i don't now. i'm trying this now, when, well, literally, i had a recent situation. yes, i went and immediately turn off the phone for me the theater, i'm returning there. well, understandable. yes, it all ends at 10:00. and there are a lot of calls. where are you? well then, where am i, a why did you leave her? why are you even answering these questions? well, you read the heart of a dog the heart of a dog looked, maybe, but remember little, i don’t want to buy this and magazines for the benefit of children and germany. 50

kop. it's a pity, no children, do not sympathize sympathize? why don't you buy i don't want to. and you, after all, are justifying it all, somehow. well, how is this our family nest, so we won’t sell it, but i should. learn to say i don’t want to. are you entitled to this? i went to the cinema and left ira at home because i so want. why are you afraid to do? so? you are for sure, this is an obvious thing in fact. yes, why do you excuse michael because children are sacred, they are angels an angel. is it possible to refuse? and why were you afraid that some disgusting mother would tell you , that's what these people whom you brought up , fed, gave them education, and ensured a normal life in a four-room apartment, working two or three jobs. they say about him that you are a disgusting mother, well, not

disgusting, why discontent exit adult children gathered to go out. here they argue, i argue. i don’t argue with mikhail i don’t like the door, that’s right there, and if you like living here , then there are certain orders once a week you sit once a week you once a week you clean everything together in turn we throw off 25% of the salary for a communal apartment, and rare know what happened here men no? mikhail gives rather strict instructions, but i just wrote it down directly. now as an algorithm for many many of those who are not yet in this studio. this is a podcast of the psyche. i am a journalist, natalia loseva and my co-host clinical psychologist of psychological sciences mikhail khors, we understand the situation of mary and it seems to me that maybe we are gesticulating, but we are saying that someone

should tell you to ours, finally uh-huh , the moscow kingdom and the russian empire accepted a large number different nationalities and faith profess its regionals of the ussr a great and serious illness. for as long as this friendship exists , the people and our country will be free and not defeated, it is still generally accepted that the ussr was the heir to the russian empire. although on in fact, between these state formations there was nothing in common, except for the territory. the language itself determined that any person could be russian and armenian and so on. in russian, and the human mind belongs to the people whose language a person uses the prime minister of the rivers of the ussr from february 27 on

the first so that's what is important, just the premise of this all you see is masculine. yes? there were practically none in the family. and you would take on the function of a man. well, it happens. well what to do, yes, when a woman begins to be a man, too, for his children for his family. so, but you took it, but you didn’t take it completely, i mean, i’m a horse and i’ll be like a man, like a woman, pulling the male together on myself. yes, but you did not bring strictness to your family. i don't like conflict at all. you don't like them. afraid. yes, i don't like conflicts and i'm afraid, these are different things, as i would say that i'm afraid of tangerines. yes, i don’t like them, but i’m afraid, yes, it sounds strange. in fact

, once again you are afraid of conflicts, because you think that there should be no conflicts, because you think conflicts are bad. and conflict is not bad and conflict is not good - this is a normal part of life, including families and it will not work to live life without conflicts. for some reason, i thought mikhail that maybe it had something to do with marie's childhood , when she was a child, and when she was probably waiting for these five days to meet her parents. you had one and wanted to be a good girl, so that she could be more with her mother, maybe she was affectionate, but she just sent me somewhere all the time sent. no, she, well, marisha called me no, but here. well, yes. well, she is all the time, that is, as if in different rooms, that is, there was no kind of heat. not that is, to my grandmother or well, that's either for a five-day week

or for three shifts. this is exactly what i remember. it is with horror. yes, this camp. yes , even when we did not go home to this change of shifts. that is, we went there, i don’t know to my girlfriends, that is, somehow so you do a pancake to your children precisely as a counterbalance. and now, in fact, when i have so much already, well, worthy age. now i can understand my mother. why, she simply could not go to extremes there. mom was given to you by mikhail she gave birth to herself those people who are in her unloved in this little girl who sits in her they compensate for what she did not receive in order to compensate, but they do not compensate, because they did not teach. and how could she teach, if she did not receive it, on the one hand, she saw mom, the extreme was gone. mary just went to the other extreme, you understand from one extreme threw it into another, they tried to drown their

children in this giving, understanding, caring love. well, i really love them, yes, but there is no love, but i gave everything that i wanted to be to me and in fact. all great. happened. that is, i gave me an excellent education in children there. yes, that is, and everything, that's all, that's because there are a lot of them. yes , i have one diplomat there, the other is an ecologist, yes, that is, everything that i wanted myself. and it didn’t work out for me, of course, it happens. two, like, you understand that you gave this to children love that gives, tender and caring, but there is another kind of love. it's called strict love. now, if strict love does not compensate for unbalanced , caring giver, then the construction of relationships is curved just like vice versa, if only strict, like mom, but there, well, she called arisha, and everything

else. yes, another twisted design. but a harmonious design is a relationship where strict love is balanced by surrender. well, let there be a giver a little more a few. yes, but when this alone leads to what you now have. and this thing is fixed and pretty quickly. if you learn to give to your children, not only giving love to show, well, strict, limiting out of love for them too. and for this you need to understand that conflicts that will definitely begin to arise when you show your strict love for them that the conflict is not bad. it's just a normal part of life. she is a possible part of life. yes, it would be better if there were no conflicts, but they do exist, and if you are afraid of them in a panic and do everything, if only there was no conflict

, then this is again an extreme michael, and relations with men can change with mary if she turns the tide and the relationship is the scheme that model that she has developed in relations with children. well, as a man there, too, you should make more demands , you know, because you need to kick men, well, i ’m not like that, of course, but there’s less of this acceptance that a man’s husband is a smaller saint. oh, kids, w- dad went to bed, what is it all about? well, this is already in the past , don’t close the future for yourself, spectacular beautiful woman. you are also told to meet and meet. maybe you can find more for yourself, of course, okay, just give me some specific ones, maybe give some advice or homework for maria so that she understands that we are with you now all my life i’ll build your forward for a few years, because

you will most likely have to fix your relationship with children for more than one year , of course, these are three or four homework assignments that maria will take and just work on. well, the first task. and you stop supplying this family with food. let there will be an empty refrigerator. you see, she is small, but eight years old, please. maybe you yourself, that is, and i shouldn’t eat at home or i shouldn’t cook food on myself, but you change it to e for a girl, which means, ok, for a 15-year-old teenager, if he helped you, they fed three. the fridge is empty, but these conflicts you ate my otvorozhok. you are not your story at all. let them decide. they are adults. let them yell at each other. excuse me, like monkeys, than yes, that's all there let them solve their own problems. here

then maybe the value of what you are doing will increase in them, and maybe they will start not demanding from you, but politely kindly asking. and here, your second task in relation to your wonderful children is wonderful. i'm sure just a little spoiled. or maybe a lot of spoiled, and it’s clear who so, the second is to stop them in russia. about what , for example. oh, please. please sit down with my what should i do to demand? change seats. now they want you. and you ask them. well they'll say no they said they learned to speak from their mother. they are not when and further psychological further punishment. it is possible to punish sexually mature earners, you are discharged to an apartment, they will not discharge all the dishes themselves. leave them. if you don't follow my rules, i'll release you

. by the way, i imagine that this is a monstrosity for you now, and most likely it contradicts. well, somehow i even know how, until i can. he can't even contain himself. this is even news with this thought, you understand, you gave them all the bait locomotive. i don't know all the resources, you understand, you gave children an education. they work. they can rent an apartment for two and share there. you of this room's horns to marry, however you like. you have given them just beyond measure. and your relationship, well, just believe it, will only improve if we are separating now, and you have every right, moreover, you must do it , you know why you have at least two more children who are watching, who are watching this and who can become your support your loving friends michael i say

now worldly, but you understand that this is not a contradiction, our psychological contradictions there. let the only question here be for the children. yes, they will say that we will not go. we are registered here again , but in fact, there are no problems. and now they do it pretty quickly, but i 'm afraid that for mary michael, the very thought sits down with her children. this is simply unacceptable. and admit once again it is a concern for them. this is love for them, because you brought them up in some kind of greenhouse greenhouse condition, where is mom, in any of their clicks runs with a finger and does everything, but reality is arranged differently. can i offer a softer option, maybe maria somehow expand her physical space in the apartment. which he has every right to, because i understand that you are a responsible apartment renter of the power of your daughter and out of the room. settle other figures in a room for a teenager boy, for example, and for your daughter. i don’t know together the girl and

the girl don’t like it now it’s simpler. you do not think that if you say so directly to the children, you will be offended for life. and when with you won't talk for a while explaining to them it will be a shock. well, maybe they need to understand, how to say from room to room periodically over 10 years of living, they just moved, yes, since they have already taken on the role of a man, then take the role of a man in this too, but in the one where you don’t drain her all my life. you can already start getting back with the women. when you take it into the energy sector, do you do it with care? no, here we have everything somehow. well, everything that concerns, well, in principle, upset. i'm nobody nobody hinders. that is, there are such everyday conflicts there, who washes there for a long time or someone is the most not. that is, no one interferes here. someone left in the morning. it just happened when the pandemic and you present to everyone from settled in the common space and everyone else.